Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 3:02 AM
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 110

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There are 19 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Cleveland Show Winners

2. Rare DeLorean Documentary video review
From: "Ohlin" <>

3. Delorean Starter Electronics 101 .... what am I missing?
From: "MrCopies" <>

4. Re: Rough running durring acceleration
From: Cliff Andrews <>

5. Fuel pump question for everyone
From: Cliff Andrews <>

6. Re: cleveland
From: Josh Haldeman <>

7. Re: cleveland
From: Richard Strecker <>

8. Cleveland Page Update
From: Josh Haldeman <>

9. Re: Front end vibration
From: "DMC Joe" <>

10. Re: PRV6 Variations
From: "DMC Joe" <>

11. Re: Fuel Gauge

12. Update, Rough Running Durring Acceleration

13. MSD pros and cons

14. Re: Fuel Gauge
From: "DMC Joe" <>


16. Good Job, Ken...

17. weird factory writings


19. New Fuel Suction Hose
From: scottmueller<>

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:27:01 EDT
Subject: Cleveland Show Winners

Below are the list of the winners 
I hope all of you can read these since the format may not be lined up for 
everyones system 
It is imported from Windows 2000

There are two winners that I do not have listed since they were just handed 
out at the podium so if anyone remembers who they are please e-mail me 


The winners of the DeLorean Car Show "YEAR 2000"
Featuring Eastern Regional Delorean Run 10

PLACE                  NAME         VIN

Under 20,000 Miles        
1st     Raymond Steele      05580
2nd     Cheryl Wester           06322
3rd     Gatis Erenpreiss        05971

20,000-30,000 Miles
1st     Scott Mueller       02981
2nd     George Cater        03840
3rd     Ceil Longwish       10663

30,000-35,000 Miles
1st     Dave Swingle        05429
2nd     John Schulz     10570
3rd     Tony Swaintek       10607

35,000-40,000 Miles
1st     John Stiefel            20018
2nd     Jonathan Heslop 00697

40,000-50,000 Miles
1st     Jack and Virginia Stiefel   03461
2nd     Bruce Benson        06938
3rd         Dave Bauerle        16506

50,000-75,000 Miles
1st     Travis Grahm        06344
2nd     Aldo Buono          01440
3rd     Andrew DeRosa       00842

50,000-75,000 Miles
1st     David Haldeman      15964

Over 100,000 Miles
1st     Bill Swilley            04370

Unpainted Modified
1st     Marty Maier         10675
2nd     Steve Ligget        05798

Painted Modified
1st     Curtis Bryant       10159
2nd     Guy Avallon         10006

Peoples Choice
        Dave & Linda Colley 01012

DeLorean Time Machine
        Bob Brandys     04675

Most Mileage
        Lance Hines     04675

Other awards given included

Farthest Traveled                                       Bill Swilley ~ 1,240 
Best club Participation                     DML
Hard Luck Award                         (no air)
Shortest Ownership                          (1 week)
Longest Ownership                           Louise Kleba  May 81

DeLorean Award of Distinction 
Given to Kathryn Delorean for her contribution in bringing her father to the 
DeLorean Car Show.


Message: 2
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:27:32 -0700
From: "Ohlin" <>
Subject: Rare DeLorean Documentary video review

I just got done viewing Dan's video (picked it up at the Cleveland show) and
I must say it is one of the best things I've seen and am proud to have it in
my DMC collection. I have read all of the major books out there on JZD and
the company, but this video left me with a strong impression of exactly what
John and his supporters had to go through in order to build up a brand new
car company from scratch in just a few years. I found myself wishing more
than once that things had turned out differently. Since the video concludes
just when the DMC was in their first year of production, it predates most
all of the serious problems that befell the company later on. You could
sense the optimism and sense of adventure that was still in the air. I
highly recommend it.



Message: 3
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:45:30 -0500
From: "MrCopies" <>
Subject: Delorean Starter Electronics 101 .... what am I missing?

Hi gang....

I'm just finishing a frame off restoration of my Delorean and have
reattached the body to the frame.  In the midst of reconnecting the
electrical system I'm running into the problem of low voltage on my starter.
I worked over the weekend on this, read the "freakin" manual :), and scoured
the archives... so if this is a dumb question...sorry.

What am I missing.....

- I have full power in the car (all the onboard stuff including the radio,
windows, instrument cluster, door lights, locks etc work - except my horns
...not sure if it's related)
- fuel pump engages when you turn the key
- Facias are off the car presently so the rear wiring harness (big black
plug) is not connected
- Start inhibit relay pins tests fine... 12 v and then 12 v when key is
- Starter only registers 8.5 v when key is turned (on the white/red wire)
- I've checked and double checked ground wires including the trailing arm
one (Knut had a great archive message about that)

When I turn the key all the lights fade and I get one click from the relay

What the heck am I missing?



Message: 4
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:00:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Cliff Andrews <>
Subject: Re: Rough running durring acceleration

Coming in alittle late on the topic, but i had a 
small rough accelration problem ever since i bought
the car, it was usually after it sat overnight and
then first few mins in the morning.  

Well over the past week i decided to clean out the
entire fuel tank/replace entire fuel pump assembly/and
clean fuel intake area.

(btw someone posted a message about a wire in the fuel
intake area, the answer is YES it goes on one of the 3
screws holding the fuel intake peice to the

For years the fuel intake piece had been rusting and
despositing rust and debris into my fuel tank, it was
pretty thick right under the spot where the fuel hits
the tank. Once i got that out and cleaned up the fuel
filter bag (which was heavily clogged) my acceleration
problems ceased.

I would suggest cleaning out that entire area and
checking your hoses in the tank for wear and making
sure the filter is not filled up with gunk.

-Cliff Andrews

--- wrote:
> Hello,
> Latley I've been driving my D every day, with this
> nice summer weather we're 
> having in Chicago, and I've noticed a problem,
> Durring acceleration if the 
> pedal is more then halfway to the floor, the engine
> boggs out, and runs 
> extreamly rough,  This problem gets much worse when
> the headlights and 
> cooling fans are on.  I think the problem could be
> caused by a weak Duciller 
> alternator, or a combanation of bad settings,
> possably timing or air fuel 
> mixture.  I also thought that the catilitic
> converter may be plugged.
> The muffler is going out, but Im not sure if that
> could contrubute to the 
> problem, looks like I get to look for a new muffler
> now.
> Any ideas would be appreciated
> Andrew
> vin 4194
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> team, please address:

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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:05:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Cliff Andrews <>
Subject: Fuel pump question for everyone

Trying to diagnose a gas smell problem that just will
not quit.

I would like everyones input on how tight you have the
clamp around the outer fuel pump seal.  I have mine
SUPER tight.  Im thinking this might not be wise as so
much tightness could bind the boot somewhat creating a
not perfect seal, thus letting fuel come out.  

My car is in the shop getting my A/C repaired and 4
new Yoko's put on, So i cant test this theory out, but
to me it sounds very possible.   

ps.  i have a whole new fuel pump assemblely (all new
rubber pieces) and a new fuel filler cap.  The smell
is definately coming out of the area with the pump boot.

Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!


Message: 6
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:20:14 -0400
From: Josh Haldeman <>
Subject: Re: cleveland

    Boy you sure fell for that one!  The plastic ice cream bar was put there
as a practical joke.  I know it got me to look twice!
    VIN 5102
    VIN 15964

robertbrady wrote:

> the one down thing that I saw in cleveland was the ice cream bar melting
> on the hood of a car.
> not sure who's car it was but people do not respect what other people
> have .
> I had a doctor walk over and sit on my hood one time.
> bob
> #10239
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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:57:39 -0400
From: Richard Strecker <>
Subject: Re: cleveland

The ice cream bar was a fake.  Maybe the Doctor was too?


Message: 8
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:54:59 -0400
From: Josh Haldeman <>
Subject: Cleveland Page Update

Dear List,
    I'm happy to finally announce that my D2K picture documentation is
finally complete!  *huff, puff, gasp, gasp*  You can check it out at:

    All links and thumbnails should now work, so let me know if you find
one that doesn't.  I'm currently developing a brand new way to view
images that will allow almost everyone to access each picture
instantaneously.  I'll be sure to post a message when this method has
been implemented.
    VIN 5102
    VIN 15964


Message: 9
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 01:24:40 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: Front end vibration

Take your DeLorean to an alignment shop that can do an "on the car spin

"We're here to help you"

DMC Joe / De Lorean Services / <>
Web Site: <>

----- Original Message -----
From: David Sontos <>
To: dmcnews Newsletter <>
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 10:17 AM
Subject: [DML] Front end vibration

> I've heard that front end vibration in the DeLoreans is common. Mine
> starts around 62 MPH through 77MPH. I've replaced tires and tie rods and
> had front end aligned. The whole front end seems tight. I've checked
> wheel bearings there is no play. The rack and pinion seems tight when I
> do a side to side check. Ball joints are unknown. How do I check for
> ball joint play? The shock bushings do need replacing, although there is
> no excessive play in them.
> Any suggestions are welcome.


Message: 10
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 01:42:55 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: PRV6 Variations


Thanks for the "very logical" explanation. I thought you might like to know
that the PRV-6 is a modified version of an earlier PRV-8. Don't ask me for
details though, I learned this years ago from a PRV publication that
disappeared some time ago.

"We're here to help you"

DMC Joe / De Lorean Services / <>
Web Site: <>

----- Original Message -----
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [DML] PRV6 Variations

> Chris,
> I was a bit hasty in my response. If cost is no object, and the Venturi
> quite expensive considering it didn't look all that exotic, a crankshaft
> with a separate journal for each cylinder would make an even firing
> 99% of the worlds 90 degree V-6's are odd firing because of the
> cost , and reliability of making a crankshaft that has three journals with
> every two cylinders sharing one. Many modern V-6's  now have their
> banks at 60 degrees which makes an even firing engine when six cylinders
> involved. Many early V-6's were derived from 90 degree V-8's which are
> firing when cylinders share crank shaft journals. Lopping off two
> makes the math come out different and the result is  odd firing. My wife's
> Taurus SHO with a 60 degree V-8 is just the opposite. It was derived from
> 60 degree V-6 and it now is an odd firing engine with a balance shaft
> installed to smooth things out. That shaft rotates opposite of engine
> rotation and offsets any engine shake associated with the odd firing
> scenario. It's very smooth and pretty high in performance. A couple of
> months back I wrote a description of what odd firing actually is in the
> mailing list and that should be in the archives.


Message: 11
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 01:51:30 EDT
Subject: Re: Fuel Gauge

It's been a long time but here goes,

#1.Resistance in series add's up for the total amount of resistance.
     This would add to resistance and gauge would stay at the top longer.
#2. Resistance in parallel by ohms law is 
                          R1  R1                  10 x 10  = 100
example:  R =  --------------- so R = ----------------   -----   = 5
                         R1 + R1                 10 + 10  =  20

Resistors in parallel become lesser the value of one.

In looking at the diagram, The sending unit is a variable resistor with x 
amount of resistance built into the resistance wire ( ohms.) By paralleling 
another resistor to the sending unit would lessen the ohms and change the 
reading to the gauge. As best I can tell and having my unit out, the light 
comes on because of a mechanical thing not because of resistance. In other 
words, when the slide goes down it shorts to ground and light comes on. Thats 
why the light doesn't come on gradually. Mine will come on and go off as the 
gas splashes around when at the bottom of the tank and when it get's so far 
down it stays on. I have driven 10+ miles with the light going on and off . I 
also know that when I get below a 1/4 tank I better fill up.  I haven't had 
and old gauge to experiment with, but if anyone has a bad one I could verify 
My $0.02's worth
John vin11004          


Message: 12
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 01:55:56 EDT
Subject: Update, Rough Running Durring Acceleration

Hello all,

Let me first start by thanking the fellow list members for their ideas and 
suggestions, they proved very helpfull.  And to your credit My D is running 
much better.

I stated by checking th fuse box and cleaning off all the fuse conections, 
then I cleaned the connector to the O2 sensor, the Coil (which is a new MSD 
coil) connections, and the alternator connections.  

After being told that the DeLorean mufflers have a 0% failure rate I decided 
to further invesagate the exhaust system, No rust holes were noticed, so I 
decided to see if there was any movement in the exhaust pipes.  What I 
discovered was a complete shock to me, the converter had unbolted from the Y 
pipe, after checking the gasket I reconnected the coverter to the y pipe.

At this point I decided to start the car and see how she was running.  At 
first she still ran a little rough, but after some adjustments to the timing 
and idle, she ran like a champ. The ducy alternator will be the next to be 
replaced since she still runs rough when both the lights, cooling fans and 
defroster are running.

Both myself and 4194 thank you,  for your help and advice



Message: 13
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 02:01:54 EDT
Subject: MSD pros and cons


Has anyone on the list installed an MSD on their D?  First of all, can an MSD 
even be installed on a D, and how much, if any, is the performance 

When I had a Bricklin an MSD and a 4 BBL carb were the first mods that I made 
to her, which inproved the performance greatly.

Just Wondering


Message: 14
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 03:38:57 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: Fuel Gauge

The low fuel level warning lamp is turned on by a contact located at the
bottom of the sender and is activated when the float reaches the bottom of
the sender housing. The problem with the factory sender is that over time
the plastic components that make up the sender distort and the contact
points move out of position. In many cases this distortion causes the very
thin connecting wires to break or become intermittent. This usually results
in the fuel gauge needle pointing off scale in the 12 o'clock position.

Unfortunately the original sender units are not repairable and are no longer
available; Tankzilla to the rescue. An interesting fact concerning the
Tankzilla is that it has a microprocessor that recalibrates itself each time
the ignition switch is turned on making the gauge very accurate. Another
problem that has been corrected is the erratic action of the low fuel
warning lamp. In the factory sender when the fuel level is low the float
bounces up and down as the fuel sloshes around the tank causing the low
level fuel light to flash prematurely. In the Tankzilla the float position
is electronically monitored and must remain at the bottom of the tank for 5
seconds before the lamp turns on.

"We're here to help you"

DMC Joe / De Lorean Services / <>
Web Site: <>

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Noeltner <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2000 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: [DML] Fuel Gauge

> Not on all DeLoreans!! On mine, the light comes on about 1 minute before
> you run out of fuel. Actually, it may have only been about 30 seconds.  :(
> If the DMC low fuel light is like most cars, it is triggered by a certain
> level of resistance on the fuel sending unit. On mine obviously, that
> is reached just as it runs out. Yours sounds closer to what was intended.
> Needle position is also determined by the resistance of the sending unit,
> but the calibration leaves something to be desired on most D's. Mine is
> actually pretty close on the gauge. It goes to to slightly over full when
> filled with gas, and runs out exactly on Empty. I would wish for a bit
> leeway at the low end.  :)
> Mark N
> VIN 6820
> At 12:32 PM 6/24/00 PDT, you wrote:
> > I've found it begins "flashing" with ~2gals. left, &
> >stays on with ~1.5gal. left, regardless of where the guage needle sits.
> >   Robert VIN 6924
> >
> >
> >>From:
> >>My fuel gauge doesn't seem very accurate
> >
> >
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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:01:34 -0000

--- In, robertbrady <robertbrady_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> has any one on the list ever used the jag shop in Florida? talked to
> them there and may send my d over to have it worked on
> thanks  bob
> 10239

Yes Robert, I use them all the time, and have had excellent results.  
Dave Wynne and his crew really know the car inside & out, which 
really saves time over going to the average mechanic who's not 
experienced with Deloreans, and is just flying by the seat of his 
pants.  As a daily driver, and my only car, I put a lot of miles on 
my D, and for the last two years or so, they've been doing a great 
job keeping it going.  You can trust them with your "baby", go ahead 
and send it to them...

Dan Harris - VIN 1662 - 81 Black Auto - Ft Lauderdale FL Area


Message: 16
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:20:07 -0000
Subject: Good Job, Ken...

I know plenty of others have beaten me to it, but I really have to 
take the time to say what a wonderful job Ken and everyone helping 
him did on the show in Cleveland.  A sideline of mine for many years 
has been producing conventions, shows, festivals, and trips for fans 
of sci-fi & fantasy programs like Star Trek, Babylon 5, and Doctor 
Who (you can go to to take a peak at 
my current project, a celebrity/fan vacation cruise for sci-fi fans)
so I know how much planning and work had to go into the show to make 
it the success that it was.  And with all that he already had to do, 
Ken was still happy to offer to personally help me out with hastily 
arranged last-minute travel plans when it became apparent that my car 
would not be out of the shop in time to drive it to the show!  I'm 
looking forward to Graceland, and this time I'll make sure that ALL 
of the repair work on my car is finished WELL in advance of the show, 
so that I can drive her up there!

Dan Harris - VIN 1662 - 81 Black Auto - Ft Lauderdale FL Area


Message: 17
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:25:51 EDT
Subject: weird factory writings

    I just removed my passenger side front fender because I was going to see 
if I could have a small ding removed.  I found some very strange writings on 
the back.  heres what it says.

"dead-ant" "dead-ant" "dead-ant" "dead ant" "dead-ant" and then "a picture of 
an ant=(a picture of fire)" Then off to the side there is a LARGE picture of 
another and and maybe some stick people.  on the top there is a picture of a 
6 inch flag that says "3".  I will be taking the other fender off soon just 
to see what it says.
I wonder what that was all about.......... any ideas....LOL



Message: 18
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:55:29 EDT

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to a bright finish with a clear, dry cloth.

Reply to Joe Bedard email address " for ordering 


Message: 19
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 05:48:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: scottmueller<>
Subject: New Fuel Suction Hose

I posted some information about a new fuel pump suction hose that I have been 
developing and testing for the last two years.

The new hose is being fabricated from a special chemically resistant material.  It will 
not collaspe or kink during installation and will not suffer from chemical attack for many 

I have recieved many emails requesting more information about this product.  I'm 

If you are interested in this, please send an email directly to me with the subject 
line "New Fuel Suction Hose".  When we are ready to release this product, you will be 

Scott Mueller

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