From: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 11:12 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 113

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Importing (Was: Importing to Canada)
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>

2. Re: 18k or 14k
From: "Gary V." <piason_at_dml_home.com>

3. DeLoean Car Show Web Page
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

4. Re: Responding to a judging question
From: Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>

5. Re: Another strange occurance
From: "Scott Cagle" <sharkywtrs_at_dml_charter.net>

6. Re: weird factory writings
From: jus4sho_at_dml_aol.com

7. Re: Fwd: MSD pros and cons
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>

8. Re: Can You Already Buy A New D?
From: "Daniel P. Saulnier" <dps_at_dml_seacon.com>

9. DMC for Sale in the Cleveland area.
From: "Yocom, Shannon" <syocom_at_dml_mitchellco.com>

10. New Delorean Project Website
From: jus4sho_at_dml_aol.com

11. RE Zilla Products
From: "Michael DeLuca" <mdeluca_at_dml_comtechpst.com>

12. R-12 in the U.K. and Canada
From: "Michael DeLuca" <mdeluca_at_dml_comtechpst.com>

13. Rear Sway Bar ?
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>

14. Re: DELOREANS IN THE UK
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

15. Limited Edition alert
From: Lee <lseiler_at_dml_radiance.com>

16. Re: Rear Sway Bar ?
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>

17. RE: window regulators
From: Darryl Tinnerstet <darryl_at_dml_techline.com>

18. Re: Rear Sway Bar ?
From: Mark Noeltner <mark_at_dml_buffalochips.org>

19. Interior Lights
From: John Yeoman <theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com>

20. Auto Transmission Governor Secrets Revealed...(long post)
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>

21. Water pump rebuild
From: "dmc1982" <dmc1982_at_dml_email.msn.com>

22. Re: MSD pros and cons
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

23. Re: 18k or 14k
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

24. Re: Interior Lights
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

25. ATTN. All Minnesota owners/enthusiasts!
From: Jim Reeve --Ultra-- <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 02:45:11 PDT
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Importing (Was: Importing to Canada)

Basically there are only two government branches you'll have to deal with. 
My guess is that this is the rule for every country world-wide.
The two branches are: 1) The Customs and 2) The registration authority

I recommend you write a letter (as to get a written reply, and also proof of 
what has been said, so you don't run into any unpleasant surprises like 
"Well Sir, that's not what WE meant..."

The Customs do two things - collect import tax on the vehicle  and make 
trouble for you if there's a ban on some aspect of the vehicle.
In Norway, for instance, the DeLorean is not allowed imported due to the 
fact that it has a CFC- airconditioning. CFC is banned over here. Yet there 
is an exeption (which I used) - I had to apply to another government 
institution (environment & transport) which gave me permission to import 
because the DeLorean is considered a unique, historical and 
preservation-worthy vehicle! :)

The Traffic Station also do two things - they register the vehicle and are 
always in serious doubt. These are what they are doubting...what color is 
the car!!! Why is the VIN plates and chassisnumbers different?

So my advice is contact the Customs and Traffic Station - let them send you 
the necessary papers. Be sure you have something from the in writing. God 
knows there are Customs officials out there acting as "judge".

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 06759 - License: RA 36211


>From: "Richard Petrie" <juffo7_at_dml_hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [DML] Importing to Canada
>Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 15:47:57 CDT
>
>Would it be possible if any responses could "cc"-it to me as well. I am
>faced with this situation and I am somewhat in the dark on the subject.
>
>Many Thanks,
>Richard P.
>
>
> >From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
> >Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
> >To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
> >Subject: [DML] Importing to Canada
> >Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:27:11 -0600
> >
> >Anyone have info on what it takes to get a car into Canada if it's
> >purchased in the states?
> >
> >Email em privately - thanks...
> >
> >James Espey
> >DeLorean Motor Company
> >Houston, Texas
> >
> >281/568-9573
> >800/USA-DMC1
> >http://www.delorean.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> >www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
> >
> >To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> >moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> >
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
>www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 03:42:10 -0700
From: "Gary V." <piason_at_dml_home.com>
Subject: Re: 18k or 14k

From someone who has been down the 14K road(that's what I paid for mine
& that's what I paid to have mine brought back to respectability), BUY
THE 18K DELOREAN!
Especially if you do not do much work on the car yourself and are going
to have to pay a reputable shop to it get done. The repairs that you
have described already will bring the cost of the 14K car up to the 18K
price point atleast.
Every time you get into your 14K car you will see, feel & hear what the
possible defects are and will, if you are like me, be compelled to get
them taken care of asap to bring your car back to respectability.
And trust me you will want to fixup this great car, because no one wants
to own a classic sports car and drive it around looking like crap or
worse stranding you in the middle of traffic pushing it to the curb!
Negotiate the best price for the 18K Delorean based on your knowledge of
the car gleaned from this list and other places, Like DMC Houston buyers
checklist and the words of the seller. Use the speedo and not knowing
the exact mileage, as a possible bargaining chip. That being said you
could also run a carfax report on the vehicle if you don't completely
trust the seller as to the mileage, which may or may not help you but
could be money well spent.

Then do not make the mistake of turning this fine car into a daily
driver until you, a reputable shop that knows DMC's or one of the DMC
repair shops around the US gives the car a tune-up and checks out the
car for gas tank contamination & the possible deterioration of all vital
components, especially rubber i.e.. cooling, fuel, steering, linkages &
motor mounts after years of limited use.
The price of confidence in your car is not cheap, but gratifying to have
while your out on the road testing the cars limits.
After all that has been addressed, preventive matenance is the key.
 THEN..........
Smile when the doors to your dream car open, as it glistens in the sun.
Proud to be the owner of a unique limited automobile built to turn
heads.
Let someone else trailer their dream car around, I prefer to DRIVE &
ENJOY mine
Thank You!

Gary
#5480
(never let me down because I won't give it the chance)

nskalsky_at_dml_remc4.k12.mi.us wrote:
> 
> HI, I've been researching the Delorean Motor Company, the dmc-12 
 for the past couple years.  alot of my information came right from this
list.
I was wondering if I could get some advice.
I currently have two possiblitys for my first delorean.
>  a 81' 5speed with 9,000 miles, I drove it, rus great, absolutly
> flawless in apperance, not to say what the condition of it
> mechanicaly after sitting so much.  I did check for frame rust and I couldnt find
> any.  the engine starts right up with out hessitation and seems to
> idle and drive smooth and consistant.  the owner wants 18,900 for it.
> The biggest catch is that when I drove it the Sped. and Odometer
> didnt work, he said they worked the last time he drove it about a month
> ago.
>  I belive that the car is at least close to this reading because the
> origional tires still have alot of tread left.  I intend on driveing
> this car everyday, in the summer and storing it for the michigan
> winters.  so I'm not sure if I should buy a 9,000 mile car and drive
> it alot when it probably should be preserved as it is.  
The other car is a 81' 5speed with 49,000miles.  new clutch, some other
new stuff,
> the dash is cracked, instrument cover cracked, seats worn, fascias
> need re-painting, small dents on front of car, and bend in the
> stainless steel by the wheel well. it was a southern car so its been
> in the sun. the owner of the second car seems to be very
> knowledgeable about deloreans and I would guess that means the car was well taken
> care of Mechanically.  I'm just wondering if anyone has experiences
> or advice for me, it would be greatly Appreciated! thanks!



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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 07:45:03 EDT
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: DeLoean Car Show Web Page

Hi 
with all the activity at the show and after I think I may have neglected to 
say thanks to someone who helped me pull this whole event off.  

That person is Dan McGauley or known in the internet world as 
hawkeye_at_dml_creativeworlds.com  Dan donated the website and helped to get the 
deloreancarshow.com site up and running.  He has done a great job for me and 
in all the hoopla of the show I wanted to give him the recognition he 
deserves. 

thanks Dan for all your help

Ken



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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 08:27:17 -0400
From: Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>
Subject: Re: Responding to a judging question

Since you mentioned it...

How were the "Modified" cars judged?  I felt that deductions were made
on my car for the after market stereo and huge rear speakers..

Will the judging sheets be made available?  I'd like to "fix" some
things for memphis.


kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com wrote:
<SNIP>
> 
> Replacement parts even if not original were not deducted heavily if at all
> but for example, put in a Craig stereo system with Huge rear speakers and we
> did take off.  That belonged in a modified catagory.
> 
<SINP>



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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 08:52:07 -0400
From: "Scott Cagle" <sharkywtrs_at_dml_charter.net>
Subject: Re: Another strange occurance


Gus-

There are 2 fuses; one controls the windows, the radio, and a few other
assorted goodies, and the other one controls the blower.  They are right
beside each other, that's what is baffling me right now.  I checked the fuse
for the radio,etc, and it looks like it was about to have a meltdown, so
rewiring that one is in the near future.  As for the blower fuse, it looks
perfectly fine. Except now I've only got high speed.  I didn't lose power to
all electrical components, only those I told you.  The turn signals, the
headlights, hazard lights, everything else worked.  I didn't check the
reverse lights or any of those as I didn't think to. The mystery
continues...

Scott




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Message: 6
Date: Wed Jun 28 09:13:20 2000
From: jus4sho_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: weird factory writings

I've had the quarter panels of my D for several months now, but just last week, I was wiping some dust off of the lower left corner of the left rear pontoon (Behind the left rear wheel) and found someone had scribed their initials and a 1981 date in the fiberglass.  Has anyone else found scribings in this location?

Steve
VIN 2650



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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 08:17:16 -0500
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: MSD pros and cons

Dyno testing of various deloreans also revealed that the ignition system is
weak, especially are higher rpms.

The MSD ignition upgrade and the performance increases it something that Steven
Wynn is also investigating on his higher HP engine.

This upgrade can be made without altering your vehicle. You can always put the
stock equipment back on for shows.

I used an MSD ignition set ups on the 97 DeLorean V-8 and my other performance
cars and it does make a difference you can feel.

Why is the MSD better than stock, because it fires the spark plug 4 times in a
row.  This way you have not chance of misfire at any time, even with lean
mixtures. Some people have a concern about premature spark plug wear due to this
multiple spark discharge (MSD get it?).  I have never experience premature spark
plug wear on my cars.

Bob Brandys

#4675




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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 10:11:45 -0400
From: "Daniel P. Saulnier" <dps_at_dml_seacon.com>
Subject: Re: Can You Already Buy A New D?

It sounds like we'll need to start up a DWML (DeLorean Watch Mailing List)
to handle repair info, parts exchanges, and technical assistance for the new
watches.  Anyone interested in being the first moderator of the DWML?
 
Dan Saulnier
VIN 05804
(no watch)
 
> Dear DML,
> If someone wanted to buy the New DeLorean Watch, how in the event of 
> repair or service, could we get the watched serviced. I checked the
jewelry 
> store and they said that they can only repair authorized watches from
their 
> manufactures i.e. Rolex etc.
> Mike



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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:15:49 -0400
From: "Yocom, Shannon" <syocom_at_dml_mitchellco.com>
Subject: DMC for Sale in the Cleveland area.

I met this guy at the Cleveland who wants to sell his DeLorean that has been
in storage in his garage. I posting it for him since he never heard of the
DML before and does not have internet access.

Robert Fruscella
1-330-467-4466

1981     32K miles    Auto Trans.


Other than that I don't know much. I paun'd him off to Dave Swingle because
he was starting to ask questions I had no expierence with, and I knew Dave
could help him.  Can you shed anymore light on this Dave?

If interested please contact him at the number above, or if you know a
Clevelander maybe you could convince him/her to go take a look at this car
and report it to ya.


- Shannon Y.
VIN# Not Yet!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 10
Date: Wed Jun 28 12:59:06 2000
From: jus4sho_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: New Delorean Project Website

I'm going to be posting the progress of the resurrection of VIN 2650 at my new website.  I've included some information about myself, some tech hints, links to other sites and vendors, and even information on the "barage"  (You'll have to visit the site to find out what it is! :)  )  http://www.angelfire.com/md2/projectdelorean

Please feel free to check it out and let me know what you all think!

Steve Stankiewicz
VIN 2650



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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:05:55 -0000
From: "Michael DeLuca" <mdeluca_at_dml_comtechpst.com>
Subject: RE Zilla Products

The Zilla address is deloreanparts.com
 


Mike D.
Vin 3113
NY Lic DLORIANN
 

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:32:55 -0400
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: DeLorean model


How does one get in touch via email with Bob of the infamous Zilla 
products?
I bought LockZilla (w/remote) at Cleveland, and would really like to 
see an
enhancement that includes an engine cut-out switch/relay that is also
enabled/disabled with the remote control unit.  This would primarily 
act as
a theft-deterrent device. (It would obviously need some intelligence 
NOT to
cut out the engine if it is running!)   I think it would take too
long 
for
some car thief not familiar with Deloreans to find the fuse panel and
disable the device.

-Hank






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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:09:28 -0000
From: "Michael DeLuca" <mdeluca_at_dml_comtechpst.com>
Subject: R-12 in the U.K. and Canada

Just wanted to know how much those 1 LB or 12 oz cans of R-12 cost in 
the UK and Canada. Are they readily available? 
 
Mike D.
Vin 3113
NY Lic DLORIANN




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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:15:24 PDT
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Rear Sway Bar ?


As far as I know the DeLorean has no rear sway bar, only a front sway bar. 
Right now, on Ebay, there's a rear sway bar kit being offered for the 
DeLorean (Custom-made I guess).

My question is this: Has anyone had any experience in installing a rear sway 
bar on their DeLorean? Is it really necessary? What are the 
positive/negative experiences regarding the rear sway bar? Is it something 
everyone should have or just forget about it?

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland
Norway
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:23:12 EDT
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: DELOREANS IN THE UK


Dear DML,

The name and address for the French  PRV-V6 Specialist is;

Carr. GOUDEZEUNE
SPECIALISTE ALPINE

At 80 KM DE Dieppe

RESTAURATION - ENTRETIEN - ACHAT - VENTE

80 640 HORNOY le BOURG - France
FAX + 33 22 90 60 52
TEL + 33 22 90 64 67

They are 40 kms from the A1. (20 KM from Amiens)



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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 01:24:11 -0700
From: Lee <lseiler_at_dml_radiance.com>
Subject: Limited Edition alert

Hello all,


	I need the help few remaining Limited Edition owners who are sending me
inquiries about their Kits.
	It appears that all the problems I have had with my Internet mail server
are finally resolved, so in theory I should get all my e-mail all the time.
Ken Montgomery who so kindly hand delivered two Editions to the Cleveland
2000 show, has ben working with me to get the e-mail and Internet problems
resolved, mentioned that several edition owners still waiting complained
about my poor responce. I quite understand, I would feel the same if I were
waiting.
	Any edition owner who wishes to contact me please feel free to do so, I
have cleaned out all my old e-mail so you will have to send questions
again. PLEASE include your RESERVATION /EDITION number so I can locate you
information, I will not reply unless I have this information.
	I know resending a message may seem an imposition, but it's the only way
available.

	The current status of the remaining kits:

	First current street value represented by actual sales:		$565.00
	Highest raffle /auction bid:				         $1,230.00
	DML Member price: (shipping not included)			$140.00

	All the actual parts manufacturing is complete and collated into kit
boxes, which are ready for box art and manual printing. There are 22 or so
kits that remain to be completed and shipped and 16 that for one reason or
another have not been shipped or returned by UPS. There are 5 unsold
editions in stainless and 4 in 24Kt Gold.
	I have made no changes in the edition master list so if you paid you will
receive your kit in due time in it's turn based on when payment was made (
NOT IN EDITION NUMBER ORDER).
I am currently working on the remaining kits when I can, and when the last
of the primary list are shipped I will announce a close of the edition. The
next step will be a single mass mailing of the ownership and authentication
documents for each and every registered edition. Please wait until I close
the edition before contacting me just to check the status of your edition.
I will make every attempt to contact you if there is a problem once the
edition closes. If you have had an address or e-mail change then you should
send it just to make sure. Remember to include your edition number.
	Once the above is completed I will attack the problem editions, which are
mostly payment
or delivery problems. No current edition owner will be bumped until any
payment issues are resolved. This means that if an owner provided payment
information and I failed to process that information the edition owner will
not lose their kit. Even owners who promised to send information and/or
checks that did not will have the opportunity to correct that situation.
With 9 unsold editions (5 stainless/4Gold) available there is no reason to
bump a non payment reservation.
	I know this project has taken a long time, and believe it, if there was
any way to do it
faster I would have don it. We are almost finished and we have something
very special now I could never have done with out the help and support of
the DML. Ken Montgomery tells me that no one has opened their edition and
built it, and suggested that we do a demonstration kit posting the photos
so that all edition owners can see whats in their kits and how it goes to
gether. I agree and once we have finished the edition we will do the
demonstration kit, which will then be donated to a Car Museum some where.
	I have decided that once the edition is closed that I will make up a stock
of spare parts registered edition owners can order to replace any parts
damaged in the kit building process. I will probably put these parts in the
hands of the DML with the proceeds to be used to support the DML.
	About the frame and engine kits. Each certified edition owner will receive
the required coupons to get these kits. The kits will be available, the
date will be posted when the kits are complete, boxed and ready to ship.
There will be no reservation list, just straight off the shelf.
	I want to thank every one who became edition owners for your interest and
commitment to the edition project. 

Lee


CAUTION :   Any individual or group discharging a nuclear device or weapon 
inside Los Angeles city limits may be fined $500 - and/or serve 30 days in
county jail.

It's the LAW!



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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 23:06:21 +0100
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: Rear Sway Bar ?

When my car was recently used for the "test vehicle" for the new springs /
handling kit, it was decided that a rear anti-sway ( anti-roll ) bar was not
required..stiffening up the rear springs and new custom designed shockers
have done the job without. Besides, most people would have been unhappy to
have had extra holes drilled in the rear chassis frame.
Have DMC Huston started selling the kits yet?

Chris P DOC uk

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 7:15 PM
Subject: [DML] Rear Sway Bar ?


>
> As far as I know the DeLorean has no rear sway bar, only a front sway bar.
> Right now, on Ebay, there's a rear sway bar kit being offered for the
> DeLorean (Custom-made I guess).
>
> My question is this: Has anyone had any experience in installing a rear
sway
> bar on their DeLorean? Is it really necessary? What are the
> positive/negative experiences regarding the rear sway bar? Is it something
> everyone should have or just forget about it?
>
> Best wishes
> Stian Birkeland
> Norway
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>




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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 16:28:41 -0800
From: Darryl Tinnerstet <darryl_at_dml_techline.com>
Subject: RE: window regulators

Stian, I believe all the regulators advertised are exactly the same.  They
are, to the best of my knowledge, made by one company.  The variance in
price is partly due to what the vendors are paying for them - some may be
getting better deals due to volume etc.  But mostly I think it is due to
"what the market will bear" or in simpler terms (and with one particular
vendor in mind), greed.  I sell them for $275 each, which is still enough
for a decent profit yet far below the $360 or whatever the competition
charges.  And I sell them separately, not requiring you to buy a pair like
one does.  As for whoever is selling them for $350, all I can guess is that
he either negotiated one hell of a good purchase price; bought somebody
else's supply at a discount; or otherwise made a good one-time acquisition.
Whatever the way, its a good deal for the consumers.

I'll be curious to see the response from the other vendors.

-- 
Darryl Tinnerstet
Specialty Automotive
McCleary, WA 




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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 19:29:16 -0500
From: Mark Noeltner <mark_at_dml_buffalochips.org>
Subject: Re: Rear Sway Bar ?

Addco makes a rear sway bar kit, so that's probably what is on e-Bay. 

Go to  http://www.addco.net/  and select DeLorean on the pull down and it
gives you the specs and the part number. 

Here in the States, JC Whitney sells Addco bars by mail order (or at least
they did last year).  http://www.jcwhitney.com/   Most models are around
$100 US. I doubt that they list this particular part on their Web site, but
if you call the 800 number they can give a price over the phone. They
weren't actually publishing the Addco name in their catalog last I heard,
but if you called they would tell you that Addco was the brand. You would
probably have to give them the Addco part number from the Addco Web site as
I doubt that JC Whitney lists the DeLorean in their database.

Mark N
VIN 6820

At 11:15 AM 6/28/00 PDT, you wrote:
>
>As far as I know the DeLorean has no rear sway bar, only a front sway bar. 
>Right now, on Ebay, there's a rear sway bar kit being offered for the 
>DeLorean (Custom-made I guess).



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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:30:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Yeoman <theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Interior Lights

My interior lights are not functioning properly, I
think they may be wired incorrectly.  What color wire
is supposed to be hooked to the side of the light with
1 connector.  Purple or Black?  Thanks in advance.

John
#16822

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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 22:58:07 -0500
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>
Subject: Auto Transmission Governor Secrets Revealed...(long post)

OK, maybe not everything we'd like to know. But as promised awhile back,
here's enough to explain
some strange auto transmission symptoms and get started on the story in
detail.

First, I'd like to thank Dave Santos and others who have contributed bits
and pieces of knowledge, experiences, and spare parts to my What Makes the
Governor Computer Tick and Why Most Eventually Fail project.

Over the years I have experienced multiple failures of the GC and have
gained considerably more experience with them than I intended. Been
able to repair my own, but experiences reported by other owners revealed a
variety of failures, only some of which I saw on mine.

To determine what was going on I reverse engineered the mis-named "computer"
and made my D into a test fixture for several possible circuit changes. I'm
working on a comprehensive document but for now here's some of the
results. I'll also report perodically on how well some changes work after
they
have more time and miles on them.

Here is some key info for the technically inclined among us. I'll try to get
schematics and pictures up on
a forthcoming Web page after I get 'em cleaned up.


Missing parts:
Good Engineering practice dictates some preventatve measures that simply are
not included in the original design. I'll describe a few examples, but first
it may help to understand a bit about how the GC works.

The GC works by comparing a variable voltage derived from a small alternator
attached to the transmission (and reduced by advancing the throttle
position) to a constant 7-volt source derived from the battery with a
voltage regulator device called a Zener diode. When the variable
speed/throttle position voltage equals the 7 volt constant voltage, the
first transmission control solenoid valve drops out and the transmission
shifts from 1st to 2nd. Similarly, when the variable voltage continues to
climb to a specific point (about 9.5 volts), the second solenoid drops out
and the transmission shifts to 3rd. All this depends on keeping the 7-volt
reference at 7 volts no matter what-- and in a hostile electrical
environment, that can be difficult. The cheap Zener diode circuit used in
the GC is a typical design, and it appears adequate so far. However, Zeners
can be forced out of their Zener regulation "knee"  by large spikes and
transients. Though they rarely fail with permanent damage the circuit can
behave erratically. Expected symptoms:if your transmission goes flakey
(downshifts erraticlly, refuses to upshift) BUT you can immediately stop,
shut off the ignition, restart the car, and everything is OK for days and
weeks at a time this circuit is a likely culprit. I'm interested in feedback
if that happens to any of you; if so I'll test a design with a better
regulator. For now I'm leaving that as is.

The main "computer" devices are two integrated circuits technically
referrred to as op amps configured as voltage comparators. These particular
Siemens Corp. chips are long unavailable but rarely fail. The circuit they
are used in is extremely sensitive; even condensation on the board will
cause the circuit to function improperly. Holding your thumb on the board
while driving around (don't try that one yourself)will even cause it to
fail! This was the core of my research since the most common GC failure
symptoms are caused by this circuit, that being the car randomly downshifts
from third to second with no cause/effect pattern other than perhaps
relative humidity. Reason for such instability: two things...First, there
are two electrolytic capacitors ("caps") on the GC board that, when new,
help filter out transient variations (electrical noise)from the car battery.
These caps nearly always fail, just time and transmission heat will kill
'em. Every single GC I've looked at (5 years or older)had bad caps. That in
itself would be OK, except the comparators depend on a good, clean reference
voltage and without these caps they are less likely to get it. The fix:
replace the caps with more rugged parts (I used tantalum caps seven years
ago, still OK)AND add .1 microfarad bypass caps across pins 1 and 4 (supply
and ground)of each of the comparator chips. Yes, all you incredulous
engineers out there, the Renault designers actually left out the IC bypass
caps!Amazing...Anyway I added these last week so time will tell if they
reduce instability long term. I can, at least, handle the board live on
rainy days without downshifting :-)

Also for you engineers, they left out antispiking diodes in the solenoid
driver circuit-- an invitation to intermittent / erratic operation. Add
reverse biased 1n4007's (radio shack)across the transistor output leads.

The number one problem I saw on examination was poor solder joints! All
seven units I have examined (two mine, one Dave's, and various Dallas
friends over the years)had really bad solder job all over the board. Worst
problem is where the 8-wire cable attached to the two boards and where the
six-wire inter-board jumper cable solders on to both boards.Can't stress
enough how removing the red conformal coating (I used lacquer thinner),
generously fluxing the board, and resoldering everything can help. Certain
it causes many of the intermittent problems.

Drive Transistors:
The two transistors that drive the solenoids are RCA units long out of
production. Although they only fail ocassionally, they can be replaced with
a more rugged TIP42 or TIP42C part from Motorola. TIP42Cs can still be found
in some Radio Shack stores and are available from Radio Shack's online
store. Symptoms:car starts out in second gear but shifts OK to third, or car
starts out in 3rd and stays. Note that a blown A/T fuse can also cause it
start and stay in 3rd. Generally these transistors don't fail
intermittently, so if your car sometimes shifts OK but gets screwy on
occasion, this ain't it.

Multiple switch
The multiple or "combination" switch controls backup lights and 1st gear
hold when you move the lever to "1". The switch rarely fails, and isn't
repairable in any case. Just make sure the retainer screw that holds it to
the transmission case is firmly in place. I'll offer more detail on this
switch's complete function later.

Well, enough for now...I'll try to write up a more coherent description with
pictures for download. Perhaps Mr. Zilla could be persuaded to offer
TransZillas with various design improvements. I'd like to see someone
replace the whole circuit board set with an A/D converter driving a PIC
microprocessor and let you adjust shift performance curve via a Laptop
serial port connection. Wouldn't be all that hard to do...

Bye!
\\ Mark Hershey
Vin 2790,now full-time automatic (so far)






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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:47:05 -0400
From: "dmc1982" <dmc1982_at_dml_email.msn.com>
Subject: Water pump rebuild

I have had great success with taking my waterpump to a local parts store
where they sent it off and had my pump rebuilt.Took about a week.   Cost was
less than half of a new one, even less than the generic Volvo replacement
and you retain the correct shaft length ( the generic shaft is longer).
This is probably only a concern for concourse competition or if you are a
purist.

Cecil Longwisch
#10663





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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:21:28 EDT
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: MSD pros and cons



Is this coil a direct switch? E. g No modifications to the wiring or 
connections.


Do the connections from the wiring harness have to be cut and modified, or 
just a "bolt on & plug in" unit
What is the problem with the Bosch Units? 
I thought that Bosch was a reputable manufacture?

Thanks 
Mike



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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:50:31 EDT
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: 18k or 14k



For some sound advice and good counsel, try looking at 

http://www.rroc.org/

This is the Rolls Royce and Bentley Owners page. Click on the Technical Page 
link and as you read insert the name DeLorean wherever the name Bentley or 
Rolls Royce are.
    Granted some of the DeLorean Automobiles are near the cost of a good used 
Rolls Royce or Bentley. Remember the Cost of Ownership and Cost of Service 
are seriously important factors when buying a car. Parts for the Rolls and 
the DeLorean are nearly the same. There are some owners of both marques, DMC 
and PMC on this list.
    In my opinion this list is very important since it too will give you a 
reality check and help you give counsel.

EXAMPLE From the RR & BENTLEY PAGE
  I know some people that fell into this trap they thought they were getting 
this great car until it needed to be serviced and the mechanic had a very 
very very long list of things that need to be repaired on the car due to 
improper or lack of maintenance. This car that they had loved had instantly 
turned into a nightmare for their pocket book. Spend the money for a 
professional or the dealership to go over stem to stern before you buy. A 
good saying is look before you leap you could be falling down a bottomless 
pit.

Sincerely,
Michael



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Message: 24
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 00:09:01 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Interior Lights

John, Black is ground, just hook them up and if they don't work, reverse the 
wires and be sure to check the bulbs. Overhead light press it to an angle so 
it will come on when you get the wires hooked up right.Door switches are a 
little cranky.
My $0.02'c worth
John
11004
 



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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 23:07:49 -0500
From: Jim Reeve --Ultra-- <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: ATTN. All Minnesota owners/enthusiasts!

If you live in Minnesota, western Wisconsin, or even northern Iowa, I
encourage you join a new egroups mailing list I have created for the
purpose of people in that area to keep in touch with each other, MNDMC. 
First let me state that this is NOT any kind of substitute for the DML,
as only people living in or around those areas are allowed to join.  But
it has been expressed to me by many owners in the Minnesota area that
there has been a lack of gatherings here.  That is one of the reasons
Nick Kemp told me he was starting that annual fall gathering.  I believe
that is a great idea, and it would be great if anyone else from the
Minnesota area could get together a couple of times during the year. 
And that is the primary purpose of this list, to help organize
gatherings and cruises.  Go check it out at...

http://www.egroups.com/group/mndmc

If you live in or near MN, or know somebody who does, and would like to
meet other people from the area, I strongly suggest you join this
group.  It could really be a lot of fun.  Thanks everyone.
-- 
Jim Reeve <Ultra>
http://www.isd.net/jpatrick/
AIM-Ultra2169



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