From: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 3:10 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 120

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There are 17 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: PRV-6 Differances
From: ttanaka504_at_dml_aol.com

2. The Litany against Slick 50
From: William T Wilson <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>

3. Re: DeLorean prototype
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>

4. Re: PRV-6 Differances
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>

5. Re: Re: Auto Transmission Governor Secrets Revealed...(long post)
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>

6. Fuse box
From: "Matthew P. Olans" <mpolans_at_dml_creeper.com>

7. RE: lock / window failure prevention
From: "Brian McCool" <bjmccool_at_dml_home.com>

8. Fuel Pump: was Re: No power
From: "Robert Rooney" <dmcvegas_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

9. Re: Starting woes
From: "Robert Rooney" <dmcvegas_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

10. JZD Signature on your car in Cleveland
From: "Steve Pattison" <stevep1_at_dml_home.com>

11. battery replacements
From: "rpcarrington" <rpcarrington_at_dml_msn.com>

12. More on Auto Transmission and the Transmission Governor
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>

13. Re: PRV-6 Differances
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>

14. Re: lock / window failure prevention
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

15. Re: Starting woes
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

16. Re: JZD Signature on your car in Cleveland
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com

17. Re: battery replacements
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 01:29:49 EDT
From: ttanaka504_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: PRV-6 Differances

Dear List:

           I was thinking about I should tell or not this information...but I 
got many help from this list and I think I should shire what I know...(Please 
do not misunderstand I thought I was not sure this information is useful to 
you or not)

           I was researching B28F and B280F because I think newer parts are 
better quality and it has extra 15 hp. You may think 15 hp is too little, but 
15 hp is a lot for 130 hp 's NA engine modification. Also if I use newer 
component, I can modification from base 145 hp. What I am thinking now is 
polish intake and exhaust port (very dangerous if you do not know anything), 
shot peeing and balancing (polish and check weight and size) most engine 
components. I may use Aluminum cam gears and pulleys and titanium bolts and 
nuts. I am still researching. I am going to start this project next 
year.(After I got big money...) 
                                              
According to Haynes Volvo 740& 760 Automotive Repair Manual
Differences between B28F and B280F
Identification:
B28F     Continuous injection system
B280F   LH-Jetronic fuel injection
Compression ratio
B28F     8.8:1
B280F   9.5:1
Liner seal thickness:
B28F 
blue mark     0,070 - 0,105 mm
White mark   0,085 - 0,120 mm
Red mark      0,105 -0,140 mm
Yellow mark  0,130 - 0,165 mm   
B280F
Orange mark 0,098 - 0,134 mm
White mark   0,118 - 0,154 mm
Blue mark     0,138 - 0.94 mm
Yellow mark  0,130 - 0,165 mm
Pistons Diameter
B28F       Grade A:90,970 - 90,980 mm B:90,980 - 90,990 mm C: 90,990 - 91,000 
mm   
B280F     Grade A:90,920 - 90,930 mm B:90,930 - 90,940 mm C: 90,940 - 90,950 
mm
Intake valves
    Head diameter
       B28F     44mm     
       B280F   45.3mm
    Valve head angle
       B28F     29.5%
       B280F   44.5% 
Exhaust  valves
    Head diameter
       B28F     37mm     
       B280F   38.5mm
    Valve head angle
       B28F     44.5%
       B280F   44.5%
Valve seat angle:
       B28F     Compound(60-30-15)
       B280F   45
Camshafts
       Max Lift (at lobe)
       B28F     Intake 5.44mm Exhaust 5.94mm    
       B280F   Intake 5.96mm Exhaust 5.43mm
Crankshaft
       Connecting rod bearing journal diameter
       B28F     Standard 52,267 - 52,286 mm Undersize 51,967 - 51,986 mm
       B280F   Standard 59,971 - 51,990 mm

                                                                              
             Blacknight



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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 08:05:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: William T Wilson <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>
Subject: The Litany against Slick 50

On Sun, 2 Jul 2000, Sean Spurlock wrote:

> anyone put in an oil additive into their cars. I am changing the oil
> in the engine and dope in the transmission and want to put in a
> cleaner prior to the change, and then an additive? Anything better
> than slick 50? I would appreciate the help. Thanks

I think it would be safe to say that anything is better than Slick 50. :}

There are special "flushing oils" that you can get that can clean some of
the debris out of the engine.  These are usually 0 weight oils, almost
like water.  You run the engine (no load) for about 20 minutes with this
stuff, and drain the oil out; a considerable amount of goop will come out
with it.  This will help increase the flow of oil for better lubrication.  
These aren't really necessary most of the time, but they are out there.
And sometimes you get unlucky, and that goop was plugging up a leak. :}

Oil additives, as a rule, are just not so great.  They come in varying
degrees of not-so-greatness, but Slick 50 (or anything containing PTFE) is
about as bad as you can get.  Slick 50 contains small pieces of PTFE. They
don't call it Teflon because DuPont won't let them; DuPont, who invented
it, says that PTFE should not be used as an engine lubricant.  PTFE is a
particle, so it is in suspension in the oil.  It doesn't dissolve.  The
oil filter is designed to remove particles from oil, so most of the stuff
ends up plugging up the oil filter.  Engines disassembled after many miles
with Slick 50 show greater wear especially on bearings than those without.

Not all oil additives use PTFE.  On the other hand, it's difficult for an
additive to improve on the performance of an oil.  Most oil companies have
R&D budgets larger than the *entire* budget of a typical additive maker.
The oil companies put lots of effort into getting their oil formulated
properly - and each oil is different.  It's going to be very difficult for
an additive maker to make any change to oil composition that is going to
result in an overall improvement.  It's also interesting to note that
there are no oil companies or vehicle manufacturers that recommend the use
of any type of oil additive.

If you want to improve lubrication, the best thing you can do is use a
synthetic oil.  These oils have better lubrication, flow better when cold,
and are quite resistant to heat.  They also are resistant to
contamination.  Because of this, you don't have to change the oil quite as
often with a synthetic; this makes up for the considerably increased cost.




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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 09:54:19 -0500
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>
Subject: Re: DeLorean prototype

I was at a weekly car show in Lombard, IL.  and ran into a group of hot rodder (Corvair and MGs) who have
a friend who has been working on a DeLorean for 3 years now. He is installing a Feiro rear end with a big
block Chevy.  The engine is just behind the driver seat.  He had to do extensive work on the frame and
chassis.


It is suppposed to be in Glen Ellen on Thursday night or in Lombard next saturday.  I will let you know
what I find out.

Bob




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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 09:56:19 -0500
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>
Subject: Re: PRV-6 Differances

The PRV response well to head work.  The top D induction system could also use
some extrusion honing.




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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 10:07:31 -0500
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Auto Transmission Governor Secrets Revealed...(long post)

The main difference between the DeLorean automatic and the later model
transmissions is how the computer control the pressure modulating valve.

The solenoid valves that control the gear ratio is simple and only an on /off
issue.  However, the pressure moduling valve is controlled by gear, rpm,
vehicle speed and trans temp.(4 th gear).

What is interesting is that the Ds computer fails in terms of gear ratio change
and not pressure modulating valve control.  ( From what i have heard.) However,
gear ratio change is a pre programed into the Eprom in the computers.

The only way the wrong gear gets selected or will not shift properly is that
the input calling for a new gear is not seen by the computer (sensor failure)
or the E prom's program has become faulty.

This should be easy to test on failed computers.  If it were the sensors(which
is unlikely)  connecting a new computer would not  fix the problem.  Therefore,
the problem must lie in the Eprom program in the computer.

Assuming the pressure moduling circuit is okay and can be accessed,     this
Eprom program is not all that complex to build and/ or isolate from the heat
area of the transmission.  In more recent cars the computer was located in the
car to avoid heat related failures..

bob





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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 11:20:50 -0400
From: "Matthew P. Olans" <mpolans_at_dml_creeper.com>
Subject: Fuse box

Folks,
        I have some melted fuses and wire-arounds so I figure my fusebox
really needs to be replaced.  Does anyone have one they are willing to part
with or know where I can get a good one?  I would like to stay with original
equipment if I can.

Thanks,
Matthew
VIN #10365




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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:26:17 -0500
From: "Brian McCool" <bjmccool_at_dml_home.com>
Subject: RE: lock / window failure prevention

There is an additive I keep seeing advertised in an infomercial called
Z-max, 1-800-720-5353.
Generally I would be a little skeptical of anything advertised in an
infomercial, but this one seemed
pretty convincing, apparently Z-max contains an additive called "Linkite"
that absorbs into the metal
as opposed to Slick 50 that doesn't penetrate into the metal as well. They
make a version for your
oil, transmission, and fuel system. I think they were selling all 3 for
$39.95. I haven't used this
additive yet, so don't take this information as an endorsement. I haven't
looked yet to see if there
is a web site for this product.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Spurlock [mailto:sean_dmc1_at_dml_hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2000 10:21 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] lock / window failure prevention

Group,

      I am a very fortunate man. My car, VIN 7003, works! The locks, fuel
sending unit, oil pressure gauge, speedo, windows, A/C, etc... all work. How
can I keep it this way. Has it had any of the updates...I don't know. What
is an easy way to tell. Especially, I want to keep my locks and windows
working...what should I do? I would appreciate any info. Also has anyone put
in an oil additive into their cars. I am changing the oil in the engine and
dope in the transmission and want to put in a cleaner prior to the change,
and then an additive? Anything better than slick 50? I would appreciate the
help. Thanks

Sean
Vin 7003
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 18:08:27 -0000
From: "Robert Rooney" <dmcvegas_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Fuel Pump: was Re: No power

Had the exact same symptoms on my car last month. Turned out to be a 
bad ground connection. First test the pump by hooking it directly up 
to a 12 battery. If the pump runs, then it is electrical. If not, 
it's a bad pump. Next plug a multi meter into the plug to see if any 
power is being sent out to the pump. If so, it's possibly a bad 
ground. Where the pump grounds at, I have no idea. But start by 
cleaning the ground point for the fron wiring harness (via the master 
cylinder access panel, bolts onto radiator support bracket). You may 
need to install a seperate ground wire for the pump, but this is a 
last resort. If you get no power at all, try reseting the inertia 
switch and/or installing a jumper wire to test for a possible bad RPM 
relay. Try this & let us know how everything works out.

-Robert
vin 6585

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, djs912_at_dml_w... wrote:
> I also have a power loss, but I (very techniclly challanged) think 
it
> may be the fuel pump. After not driving her for a couple of months I
> took her out on 2 consecutive days, about 30 miles in total. On day 
2 I
> was returning home from our little jaunt, and all of a sudden I'm
> stalling out (on a main street - very main). After restarting she 
ran
> pretty rough and labored for a few blocks and stalled again. This
> sceneario happened several times in my quest to get home without 
using
> yet another of my precious few free AAA tows. Each start kept her
> running less time, until alas - no restart. She seems to want to 
start,
> but isn't getting gas - I think. Once I ran out of gas in a van and 
it
> acted the same way, if I remember right. What d'ya think, fuel pump?




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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 18:13:29 -0000
From: "Robert Rooney" <dmcvegas_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Starting woes

Sounds like a bad ground connection for the starter. Remove the air 
box assembly. Below/in front if the coolant overflow bottle you'll 
see a red wire that is bolted onto a bare spot on the chassis. Remove 
the bolt & clean the connection (engine brite works the best). Bolt 
everything back into place & try it out. More details can be found in 
the technical library on the DMC News web site.

-Robert
vin 6585

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Matthew P. Olans" <mpolans_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> Ok,
>         I've had VIN #10365 for about a week now.  The company who 
shipped
> the car killed the battery in transit.  I could start it if I 
jumped it and
> it would run fine but after shutting down it didn't have enough 
juice to
> restart.  So I bought a new battery today.  I put it in today and 
now
> nothing happens.  Well, ok, everything else works, but when I turn 
the key I
> don't hear the fuel pump and when I try to crank I get one click.  
The
> lights go off as if it's ready to start but it never turns.  The 
battery is
> 100%.  I checked the fuses and they all look good.  I'm at a loss 
and I am
> not much of a mechanic.  Any ideas before I have it flatbedded??
> 
> Thanks,
> Matthew




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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 11:40:27 -0700
From: "Steve Pattison" <stevep1_at_dml_home.com>
Subject: JZD Signature on your car in Cleveland

For those lucky people: I'm curious for info on what Mr. Delorean signed your glovebox lids with ? Will it be permanent ? What about those that have black interiors ?

Thanks,
Steve Pattison
Vin 2528
San Diego


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 17:02:13 -0400
From: "rpcarrington" <rpcarrington_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: battery replacements

Hi Group. MY battery died and I wanted to get some opinions on which battery
you think is best. I live in Columbus, OH, but I usually store my D in the
winter. Thanks for suggestions. Bob #20003






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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 18:12:12 -0500
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>
Subject: More on Auto Transmission and the Transmission Governor

There is a lot of confusion about the D's auto transmission computer, in
fact the term 'computer' is quite misleading. The D's 'computer' is entirely
analog, and does not have any influence on shift quality, only on shift
points.
As Bob correctly mentions below,  the electronic computer on many late model
cars controls shift points and  fluid pressure, but on the D the computer
controls only shift points. Fluid pressure is controlled by an entirely
conventional mechanical vacuum modulator. The idea, as I understand it, is
to let the bands (and clutches) slip a little on a slow acceleration to make
the shift smooth. Engine manifold vacuum is used as a measure of
acceleration-- high vacuum = slow acceleration. Jackrabbit starts cause the
air intake to increase, which reduces manifold vacuum. The vacuum modulator,
mounted on the rear of the transmission, uses this vacuum to increase
transmission fluid pressure delivered to the band acuators to make the bands
grab with little slippage.

The D's vacuum modulator is adjustable, and a procedure for doing so is
included in the DeLorean service manuals. It involves a fluid pressure gauge
connected to a test point on the transmission case and the adjustment is to
rotate the outer ring of the modulator.

The D's so-called computer, being analog, has no eprom and doesn't do any
calculating. Sole function is to run the shift solenoids via a couple of
$0.23 (in 1981) comparator chips. Doesn't even have any control on reverse
valving so if anyone is having problems with Reverse, it ain't the governor.
Does play a role in backup lights and in downshifts.

As far as I know the vacuum modulator is trouble free; unaware of any
failures at all. Even need for adjustment is rare.
On modern transmission controllers the shift points can be programmed by
changing Eproms or sometimes via a serial data port. The D's shift points
can be changed by changing resistor values in the comparator circuits. Some
years back there was some reference to European governors having different
shift points; I think Swedish Autoservice specifically carried the Euro
version.

Today, one could make a programmable microprocessor-controlled circuit to
replace the '81 analog design. Take a look at a product called the Basic
Stamp (www.parallax.com, I think) to imagine the possibilities. It's a Basic
interpreter on a chip!

Tips I accidentally left out last time:

There is a kickdown microswitch that tells the Computer to downshift
immediately when you floor the accelerator. Bad switch or wiring = no
instant downshift. To troubleshoot, first make sure the microswitch is
mechanically engaged when you floor the pedal. The micro in question is one
of two small white ones that are near the throttle spool; the other one
shuts off the A/C compressor when you floor it. Try swapping the switch
wiring-- just swap the switch's connectors--to see if the problem follows
the switch (i.e., now you get a downshift but the A/C doesn't cut out. )
NOTE: If the switch fails ON, then the governor would think you have it
floored all the time and your symptom would probably be no upshift (1st gear
hold). Try just disconnecting the switch before blaming the computer- I've
had two go bad so far. Little buggers can get intermittent, to, so
disconnect the switch and drive awhile to be sure.

The D's backup lights can help troubleshoot gov. problems....Fuse #13 ( I
think, drawings aren't with me here at work)controls the governor and
supplies current to the backup lights, so if your car seems to start in
third gear (a commonly reported failure mode) then check to see if you have
backup lights. If not, the gov. is probably  OK; check, clean, and reseat
the fuse. Pulling and reseating the red connector under the ignition coil
cover will often correct continuous or intermittent third gear starts if
fuse 13 checks OK.

\\ Mark


----- Original Message ----- s a measure of acceleration- high vacuum means
tFrom: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Auto Transmission Governor Secrets Revealed...(long
post)


> The main difference between the DeLorean automatic and the later model
> transmissions is how the computer control the pressure modulating valve.
>





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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 18:20:50 -0500
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>
Subject: Re: PRV-6 Differances

Biggest difference I'm aware of between Volvo B28-series and DeLorean B28s
is that the entire lower casting is different. DeLorean's is identical to
the Renault Alpine; Volvo's casting uses a very wide T-shaped oil pan. It
wouldn't clear the D's frame.

\\ Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: <ttanaka504_at_dml_aol.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 12:29 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] PRV-6 Differances


> Dear List:
>
>            I was thinking about I should tell or not this
information...but I
> got many help from this list and I think I should shire what I




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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 15:30:08 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: lock / window failure prevention

In 17 years of research and testing we have never found any type of fuel or
oil additive that improves either the fuel or oil system. The PRV-6 asks for
nothing except recommended oil changes; save your money.

"We're here to help you"

DMC Joe / De Lorean Services / <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: <www.deloreanservices.com>
.

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian McCool <bjmccool_at_dml_home.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 11:26 AM
Subject: RE: [DML] lock / window failure prevention


> There is an additive I keep seeing advertised in an infomercial called
> Z-max, 



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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 15:56:33 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Starting woes

Check the battery to chassis ground connection located at the RH trailing
arm bushing.

Conduct the following test to see if you have a battery ground problem.

Clip the black negative clamp of a pair of jumper cables to the negative
side of your battery and clamp the opposite end to the engine block.

"We're here to help you"

DMC Joe / De Lorean Services / <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: <www.deloreanservices.com>
.

----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew P. Olans <mpolans_at_dml_creeper.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2000 3:22 PM
Subject: [DML] Starting woes


> Ok,
>         I've had VIN #10365 for about a week now.  The company who shipped
> the car killed the battery in transit.  I could start it if I jumped it
and
> it would run fine but after shutting down it didn't have enough juice to
> restart.  So I bought a new battery today.  I put it in today and now






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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 21:37:53 EDT
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: JZD Signature on your car in Cleveland

In a message dated 7/3/00 6:27:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stevep1_at_dml_home.com 
writes:

<< For those lucky people: I'm curious for info on what Mr. Delorean signed 
your glovebox lids with ? Will it be permanent ? What about those that have 
black interiors ?
  >>
Hey Steve,

   Before me and my dad left for Cleveland on Thursday, I set out to all the 
candy stores in my area to find a paint marker.  At the 4th store, I finally 
found the perfect one.  My car is a black interior so I got the silver 
colored paint marker for Mr. De Lorean to sign the under side of the glove 
box door.  The funny thing about the whole experience with Mr. De Lorean 
signing my glove box door was when he went to sign it, and the ink wouldn't 
come out at first, so I told him to put the cap back on and shake it a 
bit...unfortunately he didn't hear me say "put the cap back on first"  so 
when he went to shake it, paint marker ink went all over my glove box door, 
and the table cloth.  LoL...you should have seen the look on Mr. De Loreans 
face when he saw what happened.  I just looked at him and said "Sorry" He 
then went to sign the part of my glove box door that wasn't covered with tiny 
paint marker ink spots and then the 2 pictures I had of my car.  I lent this 
marker out to other people at the show for him to sign their glove box doors, 
it really came out nice.  And yes I did get those marks out of my glove box 
door, but  I was without a napkin or water for the dinner  :(  Hope that 
answers your question.  If you want to try and find this marker in your area, 
when I get it back [ Mike D. hint hint   j/k :)  ] I will look up the name of 
it and tell you it if you want.

Later,
Nick
1852



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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 23:06:31 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: battery replacements

Bob, Due to the other problems of the D's, I'm recomend at least a 850cc amps 
battery. I use Champion from Sam's at $59.95 and a full 2 yrs repl. Your car 
will love the reserve power it will store and so will you when you need it.If 
you make some of the mod's in the future you will need it. Aternators love 
lot's of power to charge the battery and if you haven't converted to a higher 
amp alternator then you will need it.
my $0.02c's worth
John
11004



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