From: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 2:44 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 141

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There are 13 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: JZD's Patents (was: Re: Other Gull Wing sports cars)
From: "Rob Hook" <robhook_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

2. Re: My good road trip experience!
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

3. Re: Control Pressure Regulator Question
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

4. Re: Overheating...hot...hot...hot!!
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

5. RE: Other Gull Wing sports cars
From: "Mike & Ann Griese" <roscsyl_at_dml_millcomm.com>

6. Re: Alabama DeLoreans
From: "stevedmc" <stevedmc_at_dml_i-55.com>

7. Re: Control Pressure Regulator Question
From: "Robert Rooney" <dmcvegas_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

8. Re: Other Gull Wing sports cars
From: "Michael D. Myjak" <mmyjak_at_dml_virtualworkshop.com>

9. delorean in movie
From: Guy Demesmaeker <guy.demesmaeker_at_dml_chello.be>

10. Re: Intro/Thanks...
From: "JDL" <jdl_at_dml_interax.com>

11. The Journey Home...
From: "Nathan E. Green" <gzen21_at_dml_excite.com>

12. Question on STARTING A D...
From: tybeaniety_at_dml_aol.com

13. RE: The Journey Home...
From: "Gus Schlachter" <gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com>





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 22:47:24 -0700
From: "Rob Hook" <robhook_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: JZD's Patents (was: Re: Other Gull Wing sports cars)

Well, no...his patent isn't broad enough to allow him to sue anyone.  For
one thing gull-wing doors alone wouldn't have been considered novell enough
and would've simply been considered part of the present art.  It's the
improvement of using the torsion bars that he's actually patenting here plus
a few other ways it could've been done on the DeLorean.  Gull-wing doors
themselves are a public domain idea now.

--Rob Hook

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Rooney <dmcvegas_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Date: Friday, July 21, 2000 7:30 PM
Subject: [DML] JZD's Patents (was: Re: Other Gull Wing sports cars)


>Yes there is. If you search the arcihives & back issues you will find
>a link to the US patenet office online. From here it will tell you of
>every single patent that JZD himself owns (roof hinged doors, swash
>plate engine, etc...), and the patents for designs that GM owns, yet
>credit in the description is given to JZD as the engineer. While the
>Mercedes 300SL, and the Bricklin both have gullwings, the companies
>didn't bother to patent the idea _at_dml_ the time. Remember Alexander Grahm
>Bell didn't invent the telephone, he just beat the guy who did to the
>patent office! Yes there are kit cars that have gullwings, though
>maybe only 2-3 in production currently and/or after the patent was
>granted to the John Z. De Lorean Corp. back in '75 I think. Why
>doesn't JZD sue? Well, if you were planing on building a new company
>(or reviving an old one) how bad would it look for you to sue a few
>small companies? Your finacial gain wouldn't make up for the loss of
>positive public opinion.
>
>-Robert
>vin 6585
>
>
>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, jvdmc12_at_dml_a... wrote:
>> Just out of curiosity and wonders, how would John DeLorean hold a
>patent on
>> gull wing doors in which he did have the 1st concept??  There is
>the glorious
>> 1957 (i believe the year was) Mercedes 300SL Gullwing, and then
>there is
>> Malcom Bricklin's 1974-75 SV-1 , all which were produced before the
>DeLorean
>> car....  i give credit without doubt that JZD's gullwing doors on
>the DMC-12
>> are nearly the best designed in measurements and space needed to
>open the
>> doors, But yet still i have seen many articles even with kit cars
>containing
>> Gullwing doors, any further info. to justify if JZD truely hold
>such a patent?
>>
>> -Jeff Valenta
>
>
>
>
>
>Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
>www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>




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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:31:28 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: My good road trip experience!

Just thought I might mention that I have seen these seats installed in
another DeLorean, as Cliff mentioned, they look and feel great. The only
drawback is the cushion height, if your 6 ft tall or taller you will
probably find that the increased cushion height may limit your headroom.
Maybe Cliff or Danrc30 could publish some interior dimensions compared to
the stock measurements.

"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: <www.deloreanservices.com>
.

----- Original Message -----
From: Cliff Andrews <fen2k_at_dml_yahoo.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 1:21 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] My good road trip experience!


> They are Recaros from a porshe boxster, ask danrc30
> about the brackets he made them before i got there.. i
> think he spend considerable amount of time wielding
> and designing.
>
> im going to get a site with pics up soon.
>
>
> --- rorx77_at_dml_aol.com wrote:
> > Cliff!, what model recaros did you get?  Can you
> > post a pic on how they look
> > in your "D". How much work was the bracket set-up?
> >
> >
> > THANX
> > Rory
> > vin#3010
>




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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:45:45 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Control Pressure Regulator Question

No; The same family Bosh K-Jetronic C.I.S. fuel injection system combined
with the Lambda Closed Loop emissions control system was used for the entire
DeLorean production run.

"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: <www.deloreanservices.com>
.

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Rooney <dmcvegas_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 12:36 PM
Subject: [DML] Control Pressure Regulator Question


> _at_dml_ the book store the other day I was thumbing thru the BOSCH
> handbook, and I came across an interesting item. It stated that on
> the K-Jetronic system, the roll of the control pressure regulator (or
> "Warm Up Regulator" as it was called in the book) is to asist the
> engine in warming up, and that it can be fitted as a fuel enrichment
> circuit (vaccum lines). Another thing that it stated was that it can
> be used to adjust fuel mixture for high altitudes. The emissions info
> sticker on my car shows readings for up to 4000 feet altitude, but
> the info stickers on the 82's say all settings are preset _at_dml_ the
> factory, and are good at any altitude. Is there a differance in the
> fuel injection system between the 81 & 82 models?
>
> -Robert
> vin 6585





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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 23:09:21 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Overheating...hot...hot...hot!!

Jared, The cooling systems fails for several reasons on the De Lorean. Fan 
Fail Relay, Fan fail module and circut breakers and last the thermostat. I 
have ( The Fan Fix ) which adddress: the fan motors coming on as they were 
designed, low voltage when they do come on, and the light light to let you 
know there on. $55.00. 100% guaranteed. 
John 
11004
6935
6568
  



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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 22:24:51 -0500
From: "Mike & Ann Griese" <roscsyl_at_dml_millcomm.com>
Subject: RE: Other Gull Wing sports cars

I doubt he owns the concept.  The Mercedes gullwing
predates the DeLorean by 20 years.

Mike Griese
3335 County Road 15 SW
Byron, MN  55920
(507)281-1899 

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Rooney [mailto:dmcvegas_at_dml_worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 12:24 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Other Gull Wing sports cars


Every now and then car companies come up with concept cars that have 
gullwing doors. And as everyone knows they can't really be put into 
production because JZD owns the patents for "Roof Hinged Doors." 
>snip<


-Robert
vin 6585






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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 23:52:41 -0700
From: "stevedmc" <stevedmc_at_dml_i-55.com>
Subject: Re: Alabama DeLoreans

I should have mentioned this a while back but there is a small group of us
in the south east and several of the owners live in Alabama.  Send me an
email directly and I might be able to put you in contact with the owner of
the car you saw.

Keep watching,
SteveDMC

SteveDMC
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Greenhaw <deloreandude_at_dml_juno.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2000 2:54 PM
Subject: [DML] Alabama DeLoreans


> Hi Group!
>
> Yesterday I saw a DeLorean at Fort Quarles-Flowers here in Decatur, AL.
> The license plate number was one from the Birmingham area.
> If anyone knows who this car belongs to, or if the owner is on the list,
> please contact me, and we can talk about the cars. I work very near the
> armory, probably 1000 feet behind the place.
>
> I've tracked down nearly all the DeLoreans that are located in my area!
> Pretty fun thing to do!
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
> ________________________________________________________________
> YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
> Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
> Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
>
>
>
>
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>




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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 05:35:05 -0000
From: "Robert Rooney" <dmcvegas_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Control Pressure Regulator Question

The BOSCH book that I was looking thru was the 4th edition. The book 
DOES show the components used in the DeLorean, but not all in the 
same illustration. The picture of the K-Jetronic setup is the same as 
the DeLorean, but it does have some variations. In the DeLorean (PRV-
6) air flow travels in the opposite direction that the diagram shows. 
Therefore the pivot on the air flow sensor plate would be BEHIND the 
plunger. For the other DeLorean specific variations, look up the 
items as follows in thier respective categories/item description:

Control Pressure Regulator:
Fuel Regulation(and the K-Jetronic section)/Warm Up Regulator.

Idle Speed Regulator:
Idle Control/2 wire magnetic control slide valve.

LAMBDA ECU:
Emissions Control/Single probe LAMBDA Unit.

These were the only differances that I noticed right off hand. The 
first 2 above you would replace in the K-Jetronic diagram, and the 
LAMDA you would have to add in, just like DMC & Lotus had to do when 
the adapted the engine to the DMC-12 (once you read the LAMBDA 
section specified above you'll understand!). The book does in fact 
explain how the entire DeLorean Emissions/Fuel systems work, you just 
have to put the missing pieces of the puzzle into place to replace 
the variables. An intersting side note: this same book also gives an 
explanation of how the torsion bars work, as well as the geometry I 
believe.

-Robert
vin 6585

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Chris Coplen" <blarness_at_dml_i...> wrote:
> I recently bought this book you speak of and it does not detail the 
fuel
> injection system as it is set up on the DeLorean.  It mostly covers 
the
> Bosch-K and K-Lambda found on VWs.  As well it doesn't reference 
much on the
> K system as old as 81-83.  It covers mostly newer K systems.
> 
> Chris
> See the car _at_dml_...
> http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/michdeloclub/main/cchoplen.htm
> #3876





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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 06:02:04 -0400
From: "Michael D. Myjak" <mmyjak_at_dml_virtualworkshop.com>
Subject: Re: Other Gull Wing sports cars

But aren't patents only good for 17 years? Wouldn't the time frame from 5 April
1983 through 5 April 2000 be about the limit of said patent?

-Michael

Rob Hook wrote:

> JZD DOES have a patent on the DeLorean's door mechanisms.  It is
> patent#4,378,658 and, ironically, wasn't granted until April 5,1983.  Here
> is the part of the patent that applies:
>
> ================
> 1. In combination:
>
> a vehicle body;
>
> a door;
>
> a pair of hinges disposed on a common hinge axis, for mounting said door on
> said vehicle body for movement between a closed position and an open
> position, each hinge having a mounting plate, a hinge plate and a pin
> mounted on said axis and in said mounting plate with said hinge plate
> pivoted thereon;
>
> means securing said mounting plate to said vehicle body;
>
> at least one bolt securing each respective hinge plate to said door frame,
> said bolt having a projecting head for abutting said vehicle in a recessed
> manner in a closed position of said door; and
>
> a torsion bar having one end secured to said door and another end secured to
> said vehicle body biasing said door toward said open position.
>
> ===========================
> There are other parts but they are references to and modifications of the
> above.  This does not give JZD patent rights to all gull-wing doors but does
> give him rights to the way it is done on the DeLorean.  Specifically, the
> torsion bar mechanism.
>
> --Rob Hook
>
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com

--
All the best -
    _
___|0|_|___  Michael D. Myjak, Vice President R&D and CTO
 | N & W |   The Virtual Workshop, Inc.
= oo---oo =  P.O. Box 98 Titusville Fl 32781
email: <mmyjak_at_dml_virtualworkshop.com>  voice&fax: 321.264.0440





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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 14:40:48 +0200
From: Guy Demesmaeker <guy.demesmaeker_at_dml_chello.be>
Subject: delorean in movie

Dears,

Few weeks ago, I see a D. in a German movie. Its title is "Cascadeur, Die Jagd nach dem 
Bernsteinzimmer, Der Cascadeur: The Amber Chamber". The car can be seen during few 
seconds. The scene begin with the front view where the DMC logo seems to hide. The camera 
does an up traveling showing its gull wing doors open.

If someone want some information about the film it can get it at 
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0135831

People that are able to see a film just for what it, may enjoy it, I have. For others the story is not 
very realistic and it is just a boring stunt movie. 

Best Regards.
Guy Demesmaeker




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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 13:09:52 -0400
From: "JDL" <jdl_at_dml_interax.com>
Subject: Re: Intro/Thanks...

You can certainly stop here in Cleveland...call if you get this before
getting here...216-932-9138....David Levey
----- Original Message -----
From: "2Lt Nathan E. Green" <gzen21_at_dml_excite.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 11:17 PM
Subject: [DML] Intro/Thanks...


> Hey folks--
>   First off, thanks to all those who helped out with the insurance. Latest
> news--State Farm said NO to insurance on the "D". Despite my plea, they
> would create a new policy for me. So, I went down the street to Allstate.
I
> now have full coverage on my D, plus liability on my second car for $1200
> for 6 months. Agent says he can probably get me down to $800 b/c I have a
> decent driving record but he needs to get driving records, etc. Anyways I
> know that's not great, but it will at least get the car in my garage from
> PA. I plan to hire a broker when I get back next week to find some decent
> rates.
>   The trip...I needed the insurance so I could pick up the car in PA
Friday
> morning. I will fly to PA tomorrow night, then drive back Fri/Sat to Scott
> AFB, IL. Iam a little worried about driving 700 miles in a D. Any
> suggestions?
>   The car...1982,VIN#10188, stainless, flat hood, WIDE black dealer stripe
> on sides. Grey Interior. 5 speed. From photos looks like car is in real
good
> shape(i.e. no dents, cracks, tears, etc). The bad news...a/c needs
> replacing...so I'm gonna sweat like crazy on the way home. Older gentleman
> got car from bank after co signing a loan. Wants the value he put into
> loan...$8500. Car looks like it will be a little work, but well worth the
> price. Mileage--odometer broken, shows 36k but owner thinks it is around
> 50-60k. Had mechanic go over it and could't find any probs. He drives it
> twice a week to work just to keep it broken in. No prblems.
>   Ok, well that's about it. I have read the advice on what to look for in
a
> Delorean on the website. Is there anything else I need to look at? What
> about the journey home? Anyone enroute would like to meet for food,
> talk?(Could anyone help if I have trouble <sigh>) I plan to stop in
Dayton,
> OH for the night as I take I-70 W.
>   That's about it. Next challenge will be finding AFFORDABLE insurance,
> licensing, titling, etc. in IL. But I'll woryy about that when I get back.
> Sorry to waste so much text. Talk to everyone soon.
>
> Nate
>
>
> Nathan E. Green,2Lt,USAF
> 15OWS Lead Forecaster
> Scott AFB, IL
> gzen21_at_dml_excite.com
> (618)588-2317
>
> "The depth of your stuidity sometimes frightens me"
>
>                    -Homicide:Life on the Street
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
> Say Bye to Slow Internet!
> http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
>
>
>
>
>
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com




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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 13:54:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Nathan E. Green" <gzen21_at_dml_excite.com>
Subject: The Journey Home...

Hi folks-
  I got back home today from buying my D in Pennsylvania. All told,
750miles(although I couldn't tel b/c the speedometer is broken). I have
little news, the D was cruised beautifully at 70-75mph(again estimates)
without problems. I stopped often and checked for leaks, etc, but there was
none.  A funny thing...my D has a rather large wing installed on it. The
rear engine design makes the D end heavy and makes the rear end squat as you
go down the road. Anyways, I keep feeling the rear squat as I'm cruising on
the highway. I thought the engine was skipping or something(but I couldn't
hear it and it would only happen cruising). Found out about halfway home it
was wind gusts pushing the rear wing(and the car down). DOH.
  OK, so I've driven the D home.It was a great deal at $8500. The car has
rather loud valve noise from left side of block. So, I have a sticking valve
or valves need adjustment, etc. At worst the car will need to get a valve
job. Ventalation system is shot. No airflow from vents, even when you hear
the system running.(Vacum system problem??) A/C belt in rear has popped,
although compressor seems to turn OK by hand. Speedometer/Odometer busted.
Interior/Exterior in very good shape. Passed PA inspection so all important
things work. Transmission feels surprisingly firm--in rather good shape.
Brakes tires supurb.(Both recently replaced)

Car Data:
1982 Stainless, 5sp, Grey Int, WIDE black stripes,
new rear louvers w/high mounted stoplight and rear wing, Alpine stereo/cass
installed. 
Vin#10188

Sorry for so much text but I'm happy to be home with my new Delorean. I am
finally living the dream...

 
Nathan E. Green
gzen21_at_dml_excite.com

"If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88mph you're gonna' see
some serious s--t"
               -Doc Brown: "Back to the Future"





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Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html




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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 17:04:31 EDT
From: tybeaniety_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Question on STARTING A D...

Hi, i have a question and need some help. I have an Automatic D wit 50,000+ 
miles and dont reallly drive it, Whenever I start it about once a week or 
whenever it always has to run for like 5 minutes. The RPM needle goes from 
like 10 to 25 and then slowly after sittin for like 2 minutes idles back 
around 10. My mechanic said this is normal buit he really doesnt know much 
about d's and I dont think this is normal. He told me this was only because 
it is cold out but now it is summer and the same problem still happens. Can 
anyone please give me some help? Thanks so much

BRIAN



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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 18:03:37 -0500
From: "Gus Schlachter" <gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: The Journey Home...

Nathan,

Welcome to the family of proud Delorean owners.  It sounds like you have a
few mechanical hurdles to overcome but I doubt that kept onlookers from
being impressed.  :-)   Sounds like you got a good deal.

The broken A/C belt is probably due to the idler pulley(s) failing.  Look
how close they are to the very hot muffler!  Mine were failing when I got my
D but they hadn't seized.  If yours did, it would certainly make short work
of the belt.

The lack of ventilation could be a variety of things.  Do any of the vents
blow?  Can you hear the deflectors moving when you change the vent selection
with the mode switch?  The mode switch has seen failures due to vacuum leaks
but it can be easily rebuilt (or so I've heard).  If you don't have a stock
stereo then it's possible the vents have been popped off their ducting;
there are other places the ducting may have come loose.  Also, I've heard of
the "squirrel cage" blower being replaced with one that turns the wrong way,
which provides about zero airflow.

Not so sure about the sticking valve.  There are components on the engine
that will make a ticking or buzzing sound normally.  I'd perform a
compression test before panicking.  What kind of fuel economy did you get?
I realize the angle drive was broken but you know approximately how far you
drove.

Anyway, you'll get as much help as you need, want, or can tolerate here on
the list, and maybe even more-accurate assistance from your Favorite
Delorean Shop.  Good luck!



Gus Schlachter
Austin, TX
VIN# 4695




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nathan E. Green [mailto:gzen21_at_dml_excite.com]
> Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 3:55 PM
> Subject: [DML] The Journey Home...
>
>
> Hi folks-
>   I got back home today from buying my D in Pennsylvania. All told,
> 750miles(although I couldn't tel b/c the speedometer is broken). I have
> little news, the D was cruised beautifully at 70-75mph(again estimates)
> without problems. I stopped often and checked for leaks, etc, but
> there was none.  A funny thing...my D has a rather large wing installed on
it. The
> rear engine design makes the D end heavy and makes the rear end
> squat as you go down the road. Anyways, I keep feeling the rear squat as
I'm
> cruising on the highway. I thought the engine was skipping or
something(but I couldn't
> hear it and it would only happen cruising). Found out about
> halfway home it was wind gusts pushing the rear wing(and the car down).
DOH.
>   OK, so I've driven the D home.It was a great deal at $8500. The car has
> rather loud valve noise from left side of block. So, I have a
> sticking valve or valves need adjustment, etc. At worst the car will need
to get a valve
> job. Ventalation system is shot. No airflow from vents, even when you hear
> the system running.(Vacum system problem??) A/C belt in rear has popped,
> although compressor seems to turn OK by hand. Speedometer/Odometer
busted...
> Nathan E. Green
> gzen21_at_dml_excite.com




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