From: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 2:37 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 144

Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com

There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. 1983 DeLorean
From: BondAtomic_at_dml_aol.com

2. Free Flow Exhaust.
From: "Robert Rooney" <dmcvegas_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

3. Re: Re: Strange Squeel at start!?
From: milestwo_at_dml_aol.com

4. DMC Bluebook
From: Lee <lseiler_at_dml_radiance.com>

5. front pontoon
From: "Erik Geerdink" <delorean502_at_dml_excite.com>

6. Other Gull Wings...
From: "Michael D'Auria" <mikeydmc_at_dml_optonline.net>

7. Re: Strange Squeel at start!?
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

8. Original '82 manual
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

9. Re: Free Flow Exhaust.
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>

10. Re: DMC Bluebook
From: Ann & Ed Thompson <rapparivarat_at_dml_erols.com>

11. Re: Broken Shift Linkage
From: kayoong_at_dml_aol.com

12. Re: DMC Bluebook
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

13. Re: Original '82 manual
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

14. Re: Any recommendations on a Service Facility
From: aabclafon_at_dml_aol.com

15. Gull wings/saftey issue
From: "Professor Frink" <diashi_c_at_dml_hotmail.com>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 22:19:31 EDT
From: BondAtomic_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: 1983 DeLorean

Hello

I was wondering if anyone was selling a 1983 DeLorean with low miles, manual 
transmission, and black leather. If you are, or someone you know is, please 
e-mail me.

Thanks a lot,
John Feldman



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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 03:47:11 -0000
From: "Robert Rooney" <dmcvegas_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Free Flow Exhaust.

Does anyone has any information on the Free Flow Exhaust modification 
featured on the DOC website? I sent an e-mail to Mr. Simon Lees-Milne 
who had the modification performed on his car, but I haven't heard 
anything back yet (don't know if the message was able to reach him). 
Come next January my D will become eligible to become smog exempt, so 
I'm really interested in performing the conversion. Are the manifolds 
avalable pre assembled in a kit, or would I have to weld everything 
myself? Either way how much does it cost, how would I bypass the 
frequency valve, and so on. Thanks in advance!

-Robert
vin 6585




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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 00:31:30 EDT
From: milestwo_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Strange Squeel at start!?

D--
Be sure to check your alternator belt tension to, every time you start any 
car it draws the battery down and the poor alternator has to work very hard 
for a few seconds to make up for low voltage in the battery. Also any time 
you turn on the A/C a real load is placed on the alternator and a loose belt 
or worn one will squeal. This type of squeal will only last a short time then 
quit when battery voltage comes back up to normal. A good check of both belts 
and tension on them is well advised.
Lloyd
3502



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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 23:21:14 -0700
From: Lee <lseiler_at_dml_radiance.com>
Subject: DMC Bluebook

to All:

Thanks to Bruce Benson, this weeks moderator!!

We are not sure if we will have any connection after this evening?? If we 
do I will post
new e-mail info or confirm old info...It is possible that we may not be 
back before next
Saturday.  I have attempted to post here and directly to edition owners, 
but can't tell
what gets to the Internet and e-mail and what does not.

Does any one happen to know what the current "Bluebook" is on a medium 
condition
DMC ?

Thanks

Lee


CAUTION :   Any individual or group discharging a nuclear device or weapon
inside Los Angeles city limits may be fined $500 - and/or serve 30 days in 
county jail.

It's the LAW!




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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:51:30 -0000
From: "Erik Geerdink" <delorean502_at_dml_excite.com>
Subject: front pontoon

If anyone is intersted, I have the front half of the pontoon for 
sale.  It stops at the dashboard.  It is in good condition.  ANyone 
interested,please make an offer.
I also have left and right rear quarterpanels with glass and vents 
for sale.

Erik Geerdink
deloreanparts_at_dml_excite.com




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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 16:33:05 -0400
From: "Michael D'Auria" <mikeydmc_at_dml_optonline.net>
Subject: Other Gull Wings...

I just saw on SpeedVision that Lamborgini partenered up with Bertone to make a few cars and he made 2 gullwings.  One is the Lamborgini Marzal which was made in 1967 and resembles the D, i think, except from the back.  This car also seats four people which DeLorean was designing for the future.  Also Bertone made a new car recently that has gull wings like the Hyndai design, the torsion bar is at an angle.  Anyway, i am still saving up for my dream and i hope to buy one within a year.  Just wanted to let you know about the Lambo Marzal,

-Mikey D


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 23:48:09 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Strange Squeel at start!?

Barry, In the old day's : Brake fluid : A little squirt will do to stop the 
squeel. 
John



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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:07:38 EDT
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Original '82 manual

My "new" '82 owner's manual from a major DeLorean supplier is printed on 
white paper, like copier paper.  The cover too.  The illustrations are all 
drawings, not photos.  Bound with staples on the fold.
By contrast, my original '81 manual has stiff shiny pages, a heavier cover,  
b&w photo illustrations, and a spiral binding.  If you have an '82 manual 
that you KNOW is original, is it cheaply made like mine, or nice like the 
'81's?  How can you tell if an '82 manual is an original?  
There is a great deal of difference in content between these two manuals.  
I'm wondering if the difference traces back to the original '82 manual, or if 
it was edited down later, for some reason.

-Wayne
"Living the dream!"
11174



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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:59:40 +0100
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: Free Flow Exhaust.

Contact the manufactures at  www.custom-chrome.co.uk

Chris P DOC UK

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Rooney" <dmcvegas_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 4:47 AM
Subject: [DML] Free Flow Exhaust.


> Does anyone has any information on the Free Flow Exhaust modification 
> featured on the DOC website? I sent an e-mail to Mr. Simon Lees-Milne 
> who had the modification performed on his car, but I haven't heard 
> anything back yet (don't know if the message was able to reach him). 
> Come next January my D will become eligible to become smog exempt, so 
> I'm really interested in performing the conversion. Are the manifolds 
> avalable pre assembled in a kit, or would I have to weld everything 
> myself? Either way how much does it cost, how would I bypass the 
> frequency valve, and so on. Thanks in advance!
> 
> -Robert
> vin 6585
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 




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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:37:47 -0400
From: Ann & Ed Thompson <rapparivarat_at_dml_erols.com>
Subject: Re: DMC Bluebook

> Does any one happen to know what the current "Bluebook" is 
> on a medium condition DMC ?

According to NADA at <http://www.nadaguides.com/> the values are:

Low retail: $9050   Average retail: $14250   High retail: $23175

These values are as of July 25, 2000.  All three model years are
listed at the same value and no distinction in value is made 
regarding transmission type or any other feature except for the
MSRP given.  Note that these figures come from a "guide" and are
typically used by lenders for establishing a value for auto loans
and by insurers for setting comprehensive and collision rates.

Now that you have these values you must be wondering what or who
determines any given car to be "low", "average", or "high".  There
are professional appraisers that do just that for a fee.  So now
you know that my DeLorean ("High Retail") listed for only $20K 
at <http://www.dmcnews.com/BuyNSell/dmcforsale.html#117> is
a bargain!

Ed Thompson (#6419 since 1982)



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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:30:04 EDT
From: kayoong_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Broken Shift Linkage

I experienced the same problem twice.   
  
I drive my DeLorean daily and with the constant shifting in the NYC traffic 
this doesn't help the pivot bolt at all. 

My first experience was about 2 1/2 years ago on a Saturday morning in the 
streets of NYC.  I had made a shift from 2nd to 3rd gear and the linkage bolt 
gave way.  No respond with the shifting at all.  The tranny is stuck on 2nd 
gear!  I call Rob at PJ Grady on my cell phone and I told him of the 
situation.  I drove my DeLorean to Rob that same day in second gear doing 35 
to 40 MPH _at_dml_ 3,500 RPM.  It took almost 3 hours to get there, a 60 miles trip 
that would have taken 1 hour and 15 mins.  He change the pivot bolt in ten 
minutes -- no charge.  He even given me a "extra replacement" bolt that I had 
carried in the DeLorean as a spare.

Well, guess what?  Ten months and 11,000 miles later, it broke again. That 
same feeling "ugly feeling" again -- It broke in the neutral position, while 
I was trying to downshift, in the decelerating lane while exiting off the New 
York State Thruway.  So, I coasted off the highway's exit and I pushed the 
DeLorean into a garage that was next to the exit.  A young enthusiastic 
mechanic made it his business to work on the DeLorean which was an advantage 
to get me back on the road immediately.  They put the DeLorean on the lift 
and changed the broken pivot bolt in fifteen mins for grand total of twenty 
dollars.

The pivot bolt has inherited problems.  It is made of mild steel and has an 
unusual physical designed for the job it is to do.  The main shaft which is 
the body which acts as the pivot post for the shift rod's linage point and 
the thinner shaft's end has threads which starts at the shoulder.  The 
thinner end inserted into the chassis which held down by a washers and a lock 
nut.  Since, the threads are cut onto the thinner shaft starting at the 
shoulder, this naturally weakens the bolt and being mild steel doesn't help.  
All the combined forces will stress the bolt and share off at the threads 
when mounted.  It is only a matter of time.

In my case, both times the bolts "sheared off" at the same area, at the 
shoulder where the threads are.  Rob had several customers had the same 
problems too.  So, to avoid the problem of the shearing breakage, in the 
future, I took the broken bolt and placed on a lathe and drilled it, to 
"hollow" it out.  This is to accommodated a HARDEN bolt which will act as the 
"new" thinner section and CAN take the sharing stress.  A simple project -- 
cheap, fast and effective without manufacturing a new unit and have it 
hardened. This modified unit is on my DeLorean and it has been nine months 
and 10, 000 miles -- so far so good.  

While you are at it, I suggest that you should check the gear shifter's rod 
lever pivot.  The point where the rod is drilled and the "reverse" pin is 
inserted through.  This right under the leather boot and the larger rubber 
seal under the center console.  This is another weak point with the DeLorean 
and it too had broken on me. You can still carefully shift into gears -- but 
no reverse.  Rob told me, "This situation can occur as one within several 
hundred cars."  I understand there is nothing you can do to avoid this 
breakage.  Maybe when shifting, do it softer or lighter?  I think it is a 
poor design and I was the lucky recipient again!  It is an assembly item that 
is very EXPENSE to replace -- not like the pivot bolt. 

Kayo Ong
#05508
Lic  9D NY



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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 17:31:19 -0500
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: DMC Bluebook

>  > Does any one happen to know what the current "Bluebook" is
>>  on a medium condition DMC ?
>
>According to NADA at <http://www.nadaguides.com/> the values are:
>
>Low retail: $9050   Average retail: $14250   High retail: $23175

(SNIP)

>Now that you have these values you must be wondering what or who
>determines any given car to be "low", "average", or "high".  There
>are professional appraisers that do just that for a fee.  So now

(SNIP)

The NADA book generalizes the definitions as:

Low: This vehicle would be in mechanically functional condition. The
exterior paint and trim would be in fair condition. The interior
would show normal wear possibly needing minor reconditioning. Note:
This does NOT represent "parts cars".

Average: This vehicle would be in good condition overall. It could be
an older restoration or a well-maintained original vehicle. The
exterior paint, trim and mechanics are in satisfactory condition. The
interior would show minimal wear.

High: This vehicle would be in excellent condition overall. It could
be a completely restored or an extremely well-maintained original
vehicle. The exterior paint, trim and mechanics are not in need of
work. Note: This does not represent a "100 point" or "#1" vehicle.

De Lorean Motor Company is a member of the NADA Appraisal Guides 
Advisory Board, and we report on DeLorean values and market trends. 
Below is a recap of how we rate DeLoreans when reporting to NADA:

Low: The vehicle runs and drives normally, but with no recent service
history. There is no fuel tank contamination or "hot start" problems.
The brakes may pull or vibrate. The exterior stainless may have dents
or dings, and the paint on the fascias may be worn, chipped or
cracked. The fascias may be warped as well. The louvres may be
cracked, and the exterior lights and lens are all in good condition.
The interior shows normal wear, possibly with stains in the carpets
and the dash and binnacle may be discolored or cracked. Headliners
may be saggy or recovered with the incorrect material. The seats may
show wear or be recovered in an incorrect material, and possibly torn
or split at the seams. All operational systems (wipers, lights, air
conditioning, windows, door locks, speedometer) are functioning.

Average: A daily driver type car with an "as necessary" service
history, fascias are not warped, louvres are not broken. The exterior
stainless steel has no dents or dings, but may have some light
"cross-scratches" that require more than can be accomplished with by
hand with a buffing pad. Runs and drives well, with a good interior
that is free of tears, rips and shows no unusual signs of wear on the
carpets, seats or headliners. The "average" condition DeLorean is the
most treacherous area, as many of the cars advertised in that price
range and NOT "average", but closer to "low", This is particularly
true of the supposed "low mileage" DeLoreans that have been stored
for years and are fraught with storage related maladies. "Caveat
Emptor" applies here more than with either "high" or "low" condition
cars.

High: A "high" condition DeLorean is one that has a recent, complete
service history. Stainless, glass, fascias, louvres and exterior
moldings and trim are flawless. The interior shows no signs of wear
and is in excellent condition with the correct materials for seat,
door panel, console and headliners. Operational systems are fully
functional, with the necessary upgrades (metal header bottle, relay
kit, braided steel clutch line, recalls, etc) performed. Potentially
a "concours" competitor if in original condition.

Feel free to email me directly with your comments/questions.

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company
Houston, Texas

281/568-9573
800/USA-DMC1
http://www.delorean.com



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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:09:18 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Original '82 manual

Wayne: 

I have an original 82 manual that came with 11004. It's called saddle stitch 
binding when it uses a staple.

John 
11004



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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:49:03 EDT
From: aabclafon_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Any recommendations on a Service Facility

I have owned my Delorean for about 4 months now.  I have not had any 
major problems.  I am not a mechanic, so I need so advice on where to get 
decent service.  I live in Indianapolis, Indiana.  Not usre if there are any 
other 
Delorean owners in this area.   I would like to get my Delorean fully check 
out
to see what it needs.     Any ideas???

Thank you
Dave L.



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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:54:53 GMT
From: "Professor Frink" <diashi_c_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Gull wings/saftey issue

Yeah, the Marzal was a one off show car. As a point of interest, the doors 
were hinged at the very outer edges of the body,not near the centre like the 
D..... so they were completey impractical. And they were glass filled, so 
not very safe, either.

Just HOW safe are D doors in an acident? I have this (probably unfounded) 
vision of them lipping up into the air on impact... anyone unlucky enough to 
give me details?

Thanks,

matt
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Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




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