From: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 2:39 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 151

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There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: DeLorean spotted on TV
From: jdsjlv_at_dml_aol.com

2. Re: window motors; alternator
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

3. Re: Re: Broken Shift Linkage
From: "BRUCE BENSON" <delornut_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

4. Re: RE: window motors; alternator
From: djs912_at_dml_webtv.net

5. Re: Delco Alternator wiring
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

6. Re: Idle_Off-idle problem
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

7. Lotus test mule
From: "Erik Geerdink" <delorean502_at_dml_excite.com>

8. Re: Idle_Off-idle problem
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

9. Re: Eurofest 2001
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>

10. Re: Chassis removal
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

11. Re: Chassis removal
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com

12. Belts and Spark plugs?
From: thai vu <thaiqvu_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. Re: Chassis removal
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

14. Re: Re: Chassis removal
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com

15. Re: Re: window motors; alternator
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

16. Re: A/C Help Needed...
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos_at_dml_sybercom.net>

17. Re: Delco Alternator wiring
From: "John Hervey" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>

18. Re: A/C Help Needed...
From: "John Hervey" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>

19. Re: Idle_Off-idle problem
From: "John Hervey" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>

20. More Purchase Advice
From: bduncan_at_dml_visualmining.com

21. Re: Chassis removal
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 12:50:51 EDT
From: jdsjlv_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: DeLorean spotted on TV

I was in Daytona Beach with my DeLorean in April of '99 for Spring Break. I 
wonder if they used old footage. Did anyone get it on tape? If so, can you 
post it in the vault?

Thanks,
Joshua Schwartz
Trumbull, CT
001292



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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:06:33 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Re: window motors; alternator

Do you know what alternator it is from Pep Boys? P/N, model and year 
of car it's for? 

I need to replace my alternator that died on me. It was a Ducy and I 
don't want to replace it with the same thing. I know that the 
Delorean parts dealers sell the Delco's that drop in with no 
modifications at all...But I can't afford it and it dosen't have the 
Liftime warranty on it like the Pep Boys brand.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> Having myself considered buying a Delco alternator from the local 
pep
> boys, I would be interested in a answer to this question as well.  I
> suspect this is the case.
> 



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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:31:50 -0500
From: "BRUCE BENSON" <delornut_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Broken Shift Linkage

Dave,

I put them in there as I have a set of several process sheets. After I put
them in I received a few requests for copies but, unfortunately, what's in
the vault is the best of the lot. I guess the company was too young to
produce thorough process sheets with torque figures and detailed assembly
instructions.

Bruce Benson


> More Information - in the eGroups Files section at
> http://www.egroups.com/files/dmcnews/PROCESS-A/
>
> Somebody put the factory assembly drawings for the shift linkage that
> shows this in detail. Look at the drawings labled PROCESS 1 thru 4.
>
> These were put there in January, no idea who did it. Thanks whoever
> you are!
>
> Dave





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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:40:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: djs912_at_dml_webtv.net
Subject: Re: RE: window motors; alternator

Darryl,
I agree with you about getting tech help from your D parts supply
people, but most of them do not have a toll free tech line. They're 800
numbers are for ordering only. I for one, do a lot better with help I
can print out and take to the fix area. Another way to get help might be
to e-mail your dealer. The parts and shop manuals  in my opinion are
essential to own in order to get an overview of what your working on
once you do get tech assistance.
Dan  -  7065  




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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:37:58 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Delco Alternator wiring

The Delco only uses the brown/yellow (excitation/ warning lamp) wire. The thin solid brown wire is not used.

The heavy brown wires with spade lugs attach to the large B+ terminal and the thin/yellow wire is connected to the D- terminal. 

"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: <www.deloreanservices.com>
  
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: sand131_at_dml_aol.com 
  To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 10:15 PM
  Subject: [DML] Delco Alternator wiring


  Can one of you Delco experts tell me the wiring to replace my Ducellier 
  alternator with a Delco. Or send me a diagram (I am better with pictures) at 
  SAND131_at_dml_AOL.COM
  Thanks,
  Ralph
  Vin 1606





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:42:57 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Idle_Off-idle problem

Dave,

There are two versions of the idle speed ECU both are set for 750 +/- 50 RPM when switched on and 900 and 1200 RPM when switched off. Although the 1200 RPM sounds high the effect will null out as soon as a load is placed on the engine.
 
BTW; your idle speed should be 750 RPM not 850.

"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: <www.deloreanservices.com>
  
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Dave Swingle 
  To: dmcnews submit 
  Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 11:40 AM
  Subject: [DML] Idle_Off-idle problem


  I was helping out another DMLer yesterday with a problem that has me
  scratching my head a little. The original complaint was that the car will
  either idle at 850 rpm (normal) or, as you tip-in the throttle, jump
  immediately to about 1200+. Makes it hard to make a smooth start in a
  manual-trans car. The odd thing is that if you take it out of "idle" mode by
  backing off the microswitch adjustment, it will go to 1200rpm with the
  throttle still closed. We backed off the throttle stop screw as well, no
  difference. No one has ever messed with the A/F adjustment (it is still
  sealed, the car only has about 3K miles on it). No obvious vacuum leaks.
  Other than this, the car runs beautifully.




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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:15:33 -0000
From: "Erik Geerdink" <delorean502_at_dml_excite.com>
Subject: Lotus test mule

I was checking out the DMC Houston site and noticed that the pic 
section was finally working for me.  
Does anyone know what happened to the yellow test mule that Lotus was 
using that had fiberglass panels?  I noticed that the windows on the 
doors looked bigger.  
I remember a couple months ago people were talking about creating 
fiberglass panels and i think the discussion ended when the strength 
of the doors were brought up (no pun intended).

Erik Geerdink
4512




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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:58:24 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Idle_Off-idle problem

Thanks. The idle RPMs (750 vs 850) were estimated based on watching 
the tach thru the back window, not with any fancy test equipment. 
Strange thing to us was the difference between the two cars, one 
going to 1200 and one (mine) going to around 900 by flipping the 
microswitch. I did notice, though that it was impossible to make my 
engine run at, say, 1000 rpm with the gas pedal, it was either above 
or below. 

BTW - these two cars were within about 400 VIN of each other, both 
10/81 build.

So - I guess the other car has a 1200 rpm ECU and mine has 900. Any 
idea when the spec changed? I'll bet it was 10/81 or one of these has 
been changed. My car is the slightly later build date of the two.

Thanks!!

Dave
--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Dave,
> 
> There are two versions of the idle speed ECU both are set for 750 
+/- 50 RPM when switched on and 900 and 1200 RPM when switched off. 
Although the 1200 RPM sounds high the effect will null out as soon as 
a load is placed on the engine.
>  
> BTW; your idle speed should be 750 RPM not 850.
>
>   
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Dave Swingle 
>   To>   Subject: [DML] Idle_Off-idle problem
> 
>   either idle at 850 rpm (normal) or, as you tip-in the throttle, 
jump
>   immediately to about 1200




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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 22:16:20 +0100
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: Eurofest 2001

Gus / list,

The vast majority of DeLoreans in the UK and Ireland ARE Left hand drive, as
were the "test cars" that drove around the clock in 1980's clocking up huge
mileages..the roads have been improved quite a bit since then..you should
have no trouble at all driving a LHD car in Belfast, the Irish republic or
the rest of the UK.
BTW, I agree with what Joe Murry said re 2001, I had the privilege to meet
him at the last Eurofest..indeed I bought some DeLorean "memorabilia" off
him....there will be more from other factory workers, at the next Eurofest,
I am sure. That alone and a chance to meet many former factory workers is
another good reason to come along next year.


Chris P DOC UK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gus Schlachter" <gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 8:43 PM
Subject: RE: [DML] Eurofest 2001

> I would love to take my Delorean to Ireland.  However, I have no idea how
I
> would manage to get it there, since I don't think I can convince James
Espey
> to drive it there for me this time.  :-)
>



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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 17:48:14 EDT
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Chassis removal

In a message dated 7/31/00 11:41:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
srubano_at_dml_optonline.com writes:

<< Is it possible to remove the chassis without 
 disconnecting the AC compressor hoses from the compressor? I really 
 don't want to lose the freon that's chrged in it. >>

Hi Steve-

Why are you taking the chassis off?  

BTW, your a/c mechanic can pump the freon out then put it back in later, if 
you need to disconnect the hoses.  But you should figure on needing to 
replace the a/c filter/dryer any time you open up a system to the atmosphere. 

-Wayne
11174



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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 18:18:18 EDT
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Chassis removal

Hey Steve,

   I recently did the body and frame separation, and I had a list of all the 
things I had to disconnect/separate to do the separation (list included in 
this post).  Hope that helps some and good luck...it took me 4 1/2 hours to 
do the actual frame and body separation and if any of you saw me in Cleveland 
saw the pics I had that showed the body of my car 4 feet in the air on cinder 
blocks.  

Later,
Nick
1852

Here is the list that I used:

Remove 6 body mounting bolts from inside car
Remove 2 body mounting bolts from the back of car, Pontoons
Remove Engine compartment crossbrace in back of compartment
Remove 2 body mounting bolts from front shock towers
Remove 2 brake lines from Brake Master Cylinder
Remove 1 clutch line from Clutch Master Cylinder
Remove Fuel line from Accumulator to Fuel Filter
Remove Fuel Filler hose and vent hose
Remove All Engine compartment Wiring connections
Remove throttle cable from spool 
Remove all 3 vacuum hoses from Charcoal Canister in LH pontoon wall
Remove Gas Fuel Line from Filter to Fuel Distributor
Remove Air Conditioner line from Condenser to Evaporator
Remove Air Conditioner line from Accumulator to Air Compressor
Remove Hoses connected to Heater Core
Remove Steering connection to Rack assembly
Remove Speedo cable from angle drive to Lambda Service counter
Remove Hoses going to heater bottle assembly
Remove rear fascia 
Remove 2 Dust shields under the trailing arms
Remove 2 battery cables running inside battery box
Remove 2 emergency brake cable running inside car
Remove brake power assist vacuum lines from both ends of car
Remove vacuum lines to vac reserve can and heater valve
Remove oxygen sensor wire 
Remove ignition fly lead on distributor



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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:33:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: thai vu <thaiqvu_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Belts and Spark plugs?


Hi,
Can anyone please tell me the spark plugs numbers (any
brand name) for the D?  And what the belt size/length
for the A/C and Alternator?  If you know the number
for the K&N air filter too?
Thanks a million!
TV

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/



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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 23:16:42 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Chassis removal

Nick

Never having done this, (although I have spent countless hours on my 
back UNDER the car), I have one question. 

Why do you have to disconnect the fuel lines as noted? My 
recollection is that the filter is mounted to the frame, so all the 
lines should be able to stay connected. Your list seems very complete 
and a great reference. 

Dave

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, njp548_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hey Steve,
> 
>    I recently did the body and frame separation, and I had a list 
of all the 
> things I had to disconnect/separate to do the separation (list 
included in 
> 
> Later,
> Nick
> 1852
> 
> Here is the list that I used:
[[shortened a lot]]
> Remove Fuel line from Accumulator to Fuel Filter
> Remove Gas Fuel Line from Filter to Fuel Distributor





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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:24:13 EDT
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Chassis removal

Hey Dave,

     Simple answer....I goofed!   I had made that list before I went under 
the car, and at the time I thought that the filter was connected to the body. 
 I didn't post another e-mail to the DML about it, because I figured when he 
got up to that part, he would realize that  it won't have to be removed.  
Also, my car didn't have the metal fuel line going from the fuel accumulator 
to the filter, someone replaced it with a rubber hose and clamps, so actually 
I did have to remove that hose.  Sorry about the confusion.  Also, when you 
need it, I have the complete listing of putting the frame and body back 
together.  Let me know when you need it.  Thanks.

Later,
Nick
1852



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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:15:56 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: window motors; alternator

Steve, 
The reason I wound up designing an alternator for the De Lorean was because 
of Pep Boy's. You get what you pay for. I have gone thru more batteries, 
starters and alternators for my family of cars, not just De Loreans but 
others to. They rebuild with checked out used parts and don't replace with 
new parts as we do. My design for the De Lorean 140 amp alternator is 
warranted for life $195.00 exchange. Yes were not around the block unless you 
in Dallas, Tx. but UPS is 2-4 days. I just sent some  small parts to Belfast, 
Ireland for about $6.50 postage and arrived in less than 6 day's. Window 
motors, If you can't find new ones that fit your budget, then maby I can fix 
the old ones.
John 
11004  
        



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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:35:36 -0400
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos_at_dml_sybercom.net>
Subject: Re: A/C Help Needed...

Correct the front fan problem first. The front fans must be running when the
compressor is running. Failure to have the front fans running continuously
will give you high pressure readings. You may have water vapor in the
system. Water can get into the system by opening a fitting or replacing a
component. What happens is the water gets mixed with the freon and
circulates in the system. As the water vapor passes through the expansion
valve it freezes, plugging the valve. You don't say what the low side
pressure reading is when the high side is at 350 lbs. Make sure that the
pressure switch located behind the right front wheel is NOT jumpered. A
plugged system should pull a low pressure and shut off the compressor. Check
all fittings for leaks using soapy water and correct as necessary. Then pump
down the system for a good hour. Hope this helps.

Dave Sontos
VIN 02573
----- Original Message -----
From: Nathan E. Green <gzen21_at_dml_excite.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 4:54 PM
Subject: [DML] A/C Help Needed...
I put on a new belt,
> turn on the A/C. Compressor works good, pressure builds to required level,
> then compressor cuts out. Normal. This goes on for a couple minutes and
all
> is good, then compressor keeps going despite dangerous High Pressure
values.
> We reached nearly 350psi before turning the A/C off for fear of busting a
> pipe. Turn back on the sytem...works good for a couple minutes then the
same
> thing.




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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 01:08:27 -0000
From: "John Hervey" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Delco Alternator wiring

Ralph, Liability, is part of the problem when advise is given on 
something that wasn't bought form a dealer or someone like me that 
works on cars a lot and has working knowledge. Wheather it's a De 
Lorean or a chevy. Wiring can be tricky: I know. I designed a 
alternator for the Delorean that I warrant for life, bolt on 
replacement, with 140 amp rated output, and designed for low rpm high 
output. There is a big difference that what is bought at auto parts 
stores. The wires your talking about should be a small brown /white 
stripe that luminates the batt light and loops back to tell you the 
output of the gauge. On the GM connector there should be a L embossed 
on the black plastic connector just below a small brown 
wire it's self. L Means light. None of the other wires on the 
connector are used on my design. The large brown wires coming out of 
the wiring loom hook up to the output of the alternators large maby 
#10 bolt on the alternator. That's all there is. If you have any 
problems, you can call me in the evening, 972-564-9321. 
John
11004. 
P.S. I'm not a dealer, just a De Lorean enthusiastic.         --- In 


dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, sand131_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Can one of you Delco experts tell me the wiring to replace my 
Ducellier 
> alternator with a Delco. Or send me a diagram (I am better with 
pictures) at 
> SAND131_at_dml_A...
> Thanks,
> Ralph
> Vin 1606




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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 01:48:26 -0000
From: "John Hervey" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: A/C Help Needed...

Nate,I can't help you much with the air problem. But on the fan's 
and electrical problems I can walk you thru that. 1st. Do you still 
have the original fain fail blue relay in the car. This is the #1 
failure. If so then it needs to ome out like a bad tooth and replaced 
with a jumper. Then the #2 would be the relay next to it, contact 
could be burned due to the high current, draw and surges.These two 
relay's are grossly underrated. Then the circut breaker, if it's the 
original, it need to be replaced with the new 40 amp. It could be 
overheating and breaking. I have all these parts if you need them. 
John 
11004


       --- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Nathan E. Green" <gzen21_at_dml_e...> 
wrote:
> Hi all--
>   After an exhausting Saturday working on the "D" I have come 
across a
> semingly unique a/c problem. (Marty/Micah pipe in where needed...) 
I hope
> maybe someone can help me troubleshoot.
>   When I bought the car, it was missing the A/C belt, presumably 
snapped
> because of seized bearings in the idling pulleys. So, I put on a 
new belt,
> turn on the A/C. Compressor works good, pressure builds to required 
level,



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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 01:55:44 -0000
From: "John Hervey" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Idle_Off-idle problem

Dave, 
My 11004,Jan. 82 Idles at 900, I have also noticed that even thought 
the books say idle can't be adjusted. In another part of the service 
manual it shows you how to adjust the idle.
John 
11004



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> Thanks. The idle RPMs (750 vs 850) were estimated based on watching 
> the tach thru the back window, not with any fancy test equipment. 
> Strange thing to us was the difference between the two cars, one 
> going to 1200 and one (mine) going to around 900 by flipping the 
> microswitch. I did notice, though that it was impossible to make my 
> engine run at, say, 1000 rpm with the gas pedal, it was either 
above 
> or below. 
> 
> BTW - these two cars were within about 400 VIN of each other, both 
> 10/81 build.
> 
> So - I guess the other car has a 1200 rpm ECU and mine has 900. Any 
> idea when the spec changed? I'll bet it was 10/81 or one of these 
has 
> been changed. My car is the slightly later build date of the two.
> 
> Thanks!!
> 
> Dave
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> > Dave,
> > 
> > There are two versions of the idle speed ECU both are set for 750 
> +/- 50 RPM when switched on and 900 and 1200 RPM when switched off. 
> Although the 1200 RPM sounds high the effect will null out as soon 
as 
> a load is placed on the engine.
> >  
> > BTW; your idle speed should be 750 RPM not 850.
> >
> >   
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: Dave Swingle 
> >   To>   Subject: [DML] Idle_Off-idle problem
> > 
> >   either idle at 850 rpm (normal) or, as you tip-in the throttle, 
> jump
> >   immediately to about 1200



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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 02:24:42 -0000
From: bduncan_at_dml_visualmining.com
Subject: More Purchase Advice

I have seen several "original" cars for sale.  I am speaking
with someone now who says that all he's replaced on the car
has been the tires and he's the second owner. My question is
what updates would definitely need to be done to an "original"
car?  Relays, hoses, alternator?  What else?  And approximately
how much would it cost to do all these updates assuming I
could do them myself?

If I can get a car with a perfect exterior and interior,
but no updates, how much should I pay?  $12,000?  $13,000?

Thanks in advance,
Bruce




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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 02:34:31 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Re: Chassis removal

Thanks for all the answers guys. The reason I am removing the frame 
from the body is to restore it (to answer one DMLers question). It 
has alot of rust on it and I want to remove it and recoat it with 
Wurths Rock and Rust guard so it doesn't get worse. I have to remove 
everything..all brake lines, fuel lines...etc...the entire frame will 
be stripped of all of the epoxy coating, inspect it for any structual 
damage and repair as nec. and then I will be applying 3 to 4 coats of 
the wurths to get a nice thick protective coating. I will be painting 
over the wurths paint with a grey paint to closely match the original 
color (any sugestions?). The wurths paint only comes in Black, 
altough I have seen POR15 (another rock/rust guard paint) both in 
black and grey.

P.S what is the deal with Delorean one? I mean I called them (first 
time ever) to find out some info on a part and they wouldn't tell me 
unless I gave them my Name, area I was from, ENTIRE VIN number (not 
just the last 5 numbers), blood type, hair color..(well not that much 
info). I understand that some parts were diferent from certain VIN's, 
but the part I was asking about (actually he didn't give me a chance 
to ask) was for the Master Brake cylinder rebuild kit. I told them 
all I wanted was simple question answered and they told me they 
couldn't answer me unless I gave them my ENTIRE VIN number and to 
call them back when I had it. Oh well...

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, njp548_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hey Dave,
> 
>      Simple answer....I goofed!   I had made that list before I 
went under 
> the car, and at the time I thought that the filter was connected to 
the body. 





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