From: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 9:03 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 273

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: Roof leaking
From: "Doc" <doctor280_at_dml_email.msn.com>

2. side markers
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>

3. wanting info on smartly buying a delorean
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

4. torque, warped rotors & dust shields
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

5. new geometry heavy duty sway bar
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

6. Re: Roof leaking
From: "Robert Rooney" <dmcvegas_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

7. Re: Engine cranks, no start
From: "scottmueller.al" <scottmueller.al_at_dml_netzero.net>

8. Re: side markers
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

9. Re: wanting info on smartly buying a delorean
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

10. John Lamm -- I can't get rid of this guy...kidding
From: "Jack & Virginia Stiefel" <stiefel_at_dml_minalco.com>

11. Re:1982 DMC is concours?
From: "Michael DeLuca" <mdeluca_at_dml_comtechpst.com>

12. Re: side markers
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

13. Re: wanting info on smartly buying a delorean
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

14. Re: torque, warped rotors & dust shields
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

15. Re:1982 DMC is concours?
From: "Michael DeLuca" <mdeluca_at_dml_comtechpst.com>

16. Re: side markers
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com

17. Re: Re:1982 DMC is concours?
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

18. Re: wanting info on smartly buying a delorean
From: steven.rogers_at_dml_us.cgeyc.com

19. Re: torque, warped rotors & dust shields
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

20. Re: Re: Roof leaking
From: qrorell_at_dml_aol.com

21. Re: Re: Roof leaking
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>

22. Re: windshield and A posts (was Roof leaking)
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

23. Car running again..question
From: Delorean17_at_dml_aol.com

24. Re: side markers
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>

25. Re: wanting info on smartly buying a delorean
From: Jack Janney <fastride_at_dml_mciworld.com>





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 01:47:39 -0400
From: "Doc" <doctor280_at_dml_email.msn.com>
Subject: RE: Roof leaking

Had the same problem with my Delorean, when I purchased it. The car had just
got new headliners and the person that did them did a great job. But some of
the headliner was not trimmed properly and was laying in the rain channel.
What this causes is a wicking effect. The headliner that extents into the
rain channel will bring the water into the interior of the car. You can
check this by removing the rubber door seal at the headliner. If any of the
headliner is in the rain channel trim it back.

Robert Starling
Vin#05252






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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 02:07:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: side markers

howdy all,

I just recently realized that my sidemarkers never seem to be on.. Is it
part of the blinker system or are they supposed to come on with the parking
lights?

lazyman






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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 02:51:02 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: wanting info on smartly buying a delorean

hey everyone,

this is my first post to the dmcnews-list.  i hope this does not offend 
anyone because i'm sure 99% of you have deloreans already and are crazy about 
them!!  well for the last couple years i've gotten quite a fascination with 
these cars and i've been doing a lot of research on the subject.  i would 
like to ask a few questions to the real brains of the delorean underground - 
you, the owners and the enthusiasts!! hopefully someone out there has the 
patience to help me out....

1. in your experience, how reliable is the delorean as an average-driven car? 
this would be my second car in my ownership.  obviously it varies with the 
previous owners, how well it has been driven, etc.  but over-all, seriously. 
what is the average mile-life of a delorean? i rarely see any advertised with 
more than 80K.

2.  in reality, how easy is it to get parts for a delorean? i'm talking 
mechanical, brakes, electrical, engine, tranny, etc. not specialized interior 
or outer panels. is the PRV-V6 easily serviced by a volvo dealer? or any 
dealer?

3.  is there anything fatal i should be looking for when looking at a 
delorean for sale?  is there any 'magic piece' that is notorious for failure? 
 any good tips on indications of abuse or hidden problems?

4.  finally - is there anyone out there who knows where i can get a good 
condition delorean in the upper midwest? i'd pay between 10K and 16K for one 
under 30K miles with a nice interior, no major work needing to be done.  all 
of the classifieds i have seen are either out of date or on the coasts, for 
the most part, or there's something wrong with them.  and i've seen LOTS of 
classifieds over the last few months. any help here is very appreciated!!

thanks for bearing with 'another newbie!'
- Andy



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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 05:12:28 -0400
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: torque, warped rotors & dust shields

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to put vents in the front brake
rotor dust shields?  If the engineers were trying to find a way to keep the
rotors hot, then this device looks like it should do the job well.  Does the
car really need such a dust shield anyway?  Is it a bad idea to just leave
it off or drill holes in it or stamp louvers in it?  Maybe I could attach a
heat sink from an old stereo amp?  Suggestions anyone?

I am convinced that over torquing the front lug nuts cannot cause the rotors
to warp on the Delorean because the rotor is a seperate piece from where the
lug bolts attach.  The rear rotors may be a different story.

My steering pulsates a lot when I use the brakes.  I checked the runout on
my front rotors, and they are fine.  My left rear rotor has a lot of metal
missing from the factory, and it is warped as well.  I'm surprised a rotor
that bad would end up on a new car!  I wonder how many hands that bad rotor
went through before it got on my car?  It's like the casting had an air
space form on one side.  It only affects about 5mm on the outer edge on one
half of one side, but it is certainly enough to cause the brakes to pulsate.
I don't think that cutting them down will help.  It looks like there is too
much metal missing.

Does anyone have any sources for cross-drilled rotors other than Auto
Specialty?

Thanks,
Walt    Tampa, FL





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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 06:34:05 -0400
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: new geometry heavy duty sway bar

I'm in the process of designing a new geometry heavy duty sway bar.  For
those of you who help me, I'll make sure you get one as inexpensively as I
can do it.  If I can make them economically then I will probably only sell
to a major Delorean supplier.  I'm not into retail.

I have heard of a guy before who sold aftermarket heavy duty sway bars.  I
think he was a former aftermarket Delorean vendor who was taken over by PJ
Grady years ago.  Can anyone tell me about this?

Also, can anyone tell me about this heavy duty sway bar?  How thick was it?
(very important to know!)  Did it have a different geometry than the OEM?
Was this only for the rear, front or both?


The OEM sway bar has two swell bumps on it to stop it from moving laterally.
I'm considering making the new sway bars without these bumps because it's a
pain to put on there, and I have seen other cars with similar setups which
do not use this bump.  Except for an accident, I can't see anything causing
this bar to shift laterally anyway.  Does anyone have any comments as to how
important this bump is?  Does anyone know if the previous heavy duty sway
bar used these bumps?

If I made the bars without the bumps, then it would be easier to tie a batch
together so they can all go in the kiln at the same time.  At worst, each
bar would have to be set in a fixture and baked separately -- which is
probably how I will do it anyway.  I will want to do a batch big enough to
take up the whole kiln.  So the less fixture that gets in the way, the more
bars I can fit in a batch.

Can anyone suggest how much less body roll the Delorean should have?  I'm
not a race car driver or stunt driver, so I could use some help here.  Can
someone out there with one of these old heavy duty sway bars tell me if you
think it is heavy duty enough?  If so, then I will consider starting with
stock of the same diameter.  Otherwise, I could go thicker still.

Thanks in advance,
Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:21:12 -0000
From: "Robert Rooney" <dmcvegas_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Roof leaking

Where exactly is the water leaking in from? Is the headliner itself 
wet and water is dripping from from the fabric? Or is water dripping 
from between the headliners directly from the door seal?
   
   If the headliner is wet and water is comming from in front of the 
visor where the windshield is then yes water is probably leaking in 
from the glass. I've had this problem on other cars and the solution 
was to shoot some silicone in between the wind shield (clear non-
shrinking GE silicone II from home depot works very well for this job 
and all sealing tasks in the service bulletin). You would have to 
remove the black trim piece at the top of the windshield to gain 
access, but I couldn't help you there on how to remove it. But on a 
side note, on the cars I've had that have had this problem, the car 
would get VERY noisy at higher speeds from the air rushing in.
   
   If water is dripping from the headliner behind the visor and leads 
up to the door seal, then the problem is that your headliners 
are "wicking" water. If this is the case, check in the gutter between 
the door seal and the windshield to see if any cloth is sticking out 
from between the rubber seal and the fiberglass. If so you will need 
to remove the rubber to trim the cloth back. Other wise the cloth 
dips into the draining water and will suck the water up and channel 
it thru the cloth to drip inside. Just like a lantern wick does.

   If water is dripping down from between the headliners where the 
door hits the rubber seal, one thing you can try would be to swap the 
inner door seals with each other. That helps a little bit. But what I 
ended up doing for my car after I switched seals was rather then push 
the rubber all the way down, leave it attached only a little bit, 
just enough to keep it in place. Then when you close the door, the 
door will push the seal down as far as needs to seal. Manually 
seating the seals by pushing them all the way down can create gaps.

   Other then that, make sure that you refer to Service Bulletin ST-
33-12/81 on water leaks to cover all other areas. Make sure that 
after driving in wet weather that you pull up your floor mats to make 
sure your carpet is dry. If not you may need to seal additional items 
on the underside and/or in your wheelwell(s). Also keep the gutters 
clean of leaves and dirt.

-Robert
vin 6585



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_f...> wrote:
> Hi guys,
> 
> I haven't had my car long, and this past week was the first time I 
had
> ever driven it in rain. I discovered that when it's raining hard, 
quite a
> bit of water drips from the area near the passenger's sun visor. I 
just
> had the headliners replaced, so I certainly want to stop the leak 
before
> the foam rots out. 
> 
> As some of you guys might remember from the Chicago tech session, 
the
> passenger side of my car has been abused a bit. The tortion bar on 
that
> side is bent so badly that we couldn't get it to come out of the 
car. The
> T panel on the roof is bent up a bit on the passenger's side, and 
there's
> a crack that runs from the top to the bottom of the windshield. It 
looks
> like someone who didn't know what they were doing tried to adjust 
the
> door. 
> 
> Since the windshield is cracked, a new windshield is on my list of 
things
> to get. Do you think that some of the sealent that's used to hold 
the
> windshiled in might be cracked, allowing water to rush up the 
windshiled,
> underneath the black metal trim, and into the headliner? I'm 
thinking that
> this might be the case, and once the new windshield is fitted, that 
will
> solve the rain problem.
> 
> Also, passenger side seal E in this picture:
> https://ssl.internetcreations.com/grady/images/sm_door1.gif
> has quite a few holes in it. Or to put it better, it's almost as 
good as
> missing. The rest of the seals on the passengers side seem to be 
fine, so
> I'd assume that any rain that gets in through there would just be 
routed
> around and down to come out at the bottom of the door. Is this 
right, or
> might that water be able to get into the headliner near the sun 
visor? The
> water really seems to pour when I'm braking.
> 
> By the way, I never moved any further on installing the DVD 
player/GPS
> unit. If I'm sure that someone soon will make an all in one unit 
that will
> fit in the DeLorean's single stereo bay.
> 
> -Christian




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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:25:09 -0500
From: "scottmueller.al" <scottmueller.al_at_dml_netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Engine cranks, no start

You most likely Had air in the fuel system, or not enough fuel in the gas
tank.  I have had the same problem before.  If your fuel pickup and baffle
are not mounted correctly, you will need more fuel in the tank.   Be careful
when using starting fluid or ether.  These products will wash the protective
oil film off of the cylinder walls.  Also, beware that if you spray the
starting fluid into the air horn you need to keep your face out of the way,
otherwise you may never have to shave again (fire hazard).

Scott Mueller
scottmueller.al_at_dml_netzero.net
1981/002981  DOA5031/DMCNEWS


----- Original Message -----
From: <BLuDSuKKuR_at_dml_aol.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [DML] Engine cranks, no start


> I had the same prob with mine....everything was working and it just
cranked
> and cranked but it didnt start....what i did was got electrical contact
spray
> and spayed all the conections...i had been working on it for like 2 weeks
> trying to figure out what the problem was....right after i did that i got
in
> cranked it and it fired up....u can guess how happy i was =0)
> -matt
> 5510



_____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______
   http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html



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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:31:10 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: side markers

Jim,

All of the marker lamps are switched on with the head/parking lamps. Is this
a condition that suddenly appeared or have they been out for a long period.
More than likely the bulbs are burnt out.

"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: <www.deloreanservices.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 2:07 AM
Subject: [DML] side markers


> howdy all,
>
> I just recently realized that my sidemarkers never seem to be on.. Is it
> part of the blinker system or are they supposed to come on with the
parking
> lights?
>
> lazyman





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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:51:04 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: wanting info on smartly buying a delorean

Andy,

1. There are many 100k high mileage DeLorean's out there. Our research
DeLorean has over 260k mi.

2. Don't worry about the PRV-6, its one of the most reliable parts of the
car with virtually no interior component failures. Most of the components
that you mentioned are readily available from us and several other DeLorean
parts suppliers.

3. The most important critical component to check out is the frame; look for
signs of excessive corrosion and or damage.

4. If your looking for a DeLorean that is in good shape, ready to drive,
with under 30k mi you will need to up your price limit.

I'm sure the other list members will respond to most of your questions with
more details.

"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: <www.deloreanservices.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: <Soma576_at_dml_aol.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 2:51 AM
Subject: [DML] wanting info on smartly buying a delorean


> hey everyone,
>
> this is my first post to the dmcnews-list.  i hope this does not offend
> anyone because i'm sure 99% of you have deloreans already and are crazy
about
> 



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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:40:18 -0400
From: "Jack & Virginia Stiefel" <stiefel_at_dml_minalco.com>
Subject: John Lamm -- I can't get rid of this guy...kidding

We all are familiar with John Lamm from Stainless Illusion fame.  Now he has
invaded another car of mine.  We recently bought a PT Cruiser for my wife to
jet about town in, and low and behold Mr. Lamm has written a book on this
car too.  May not involve the DML much, just a neat occurrence.

Jack & Virginia Stiefel
'81 DeLorean Vin 03461 August  1981 Build NYS Lic: 1981 DMC
'97 Red BMW Z3 Convertible V6
'98 Red Dodge Ram Quad Cab Lariat
'01 Black PT Cruiser Limited w/ Flames
Visit us at www.sacketmansion.com




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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:47:47 -0000
From: "Michael DeLuca" <mdeluca_at_dml_comtechpst.com>
Subject: Re:1982 DMC is concours?

Regarding Fascias and concourse judging, I think all of the original 
fascia will show a tape mark from the original packing that was used 
to protect the DeLorean in transport (it may only be visible in 
certain lighting and at a correct viewing angle). The tape was 
installed at the factory!
So shouldn't a car that is truly original have points taken off if the 
fascias have been painted and are missing these marks? Which is more 
correct, a freshly painted fascia that looks perfect or an original 
one
that has what looks like a defect but is certainly more original and 
correct then a perfect fascia?

When I was first trying to understand Concourse judging I found a 
description that said something to the effect that in a 300 point 
competition a brand new Porch right off the show room floor would 
probably be a 150 point car.  A concourse car is not only what the car 
is but also what it should be. 

I think James Espey has done a great job with his concourse judging 
manual and has given us all a great bench mark for us all to use as a 
standard point of reference. Certain items will always be subjective 
and maybe even controversial. I don't think it is possible to come up 
with an absolutely correct standard.
At least now there is a published standard for DeLorean Concourse 
judging and if you want to win you try to meet that standard 
regardless of what you think is right or how it should be.

If this were a black and white issue there would be no need for judges 
at all. 

Mike D.
Vin 3113
NY Lic DLORIANN 

Moderators please delete if this is a duplicat msg





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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:17:47 -0000
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: side markers

The side markers front and rear are lighted in both the parking light 
and headlight positions of the main lighting switch. They are not part 
of the turn or hazard lights. The first thing to check is if the bulbs 
are burnt out and if there is power to the socket.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_j...> 
wrote:
> howdy all,
> 
> I just recently realized that my sidemarkers never seem to be on.. 
Is it
> part of the blinker system or are they supposed to come on with the 
parking
> lights?
> 
> lazyman




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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:28:34 -0000
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: wanting info on smartly buying a delorean

The major problem with making a Delorean a daily driver is finding 
someone who can maintain it and what do you do in the meantime for a 
car. It is a 20 year old car and will require some maintaince 
depending on how it was taken care of and how much you are willing to 
put into it. Another important factor is it's size. It is a very low 
car with limited visibility and the roads are now dominated by SUV's 
and they don't even see you in the mirrors! In the event of a major 
accident you would be on the bottom, a not very survivable spot. The 
more you drive a car the more likely you will have an accident in it 
so I think the bigger the better right now and damm the gas 
mileage, just consider it life insurance. This doesn't mean I don't 
drive my car but I don't drive it every day in rush hour traffic. You 
also won't be happy when a shopping cart hits the car in a parking 
lot.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> hey everyone,
> 
> this is my first post to the dmcnews-list.  i hope this does not 
offend 
> anyone because i'm sure 99% of you have deloreans already and are 
crazy about 
> them!!  well for 



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Message: 14
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:45:07 -0000
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: torque, warped rotors & dust shields

Be careful in any attempt to direct more air to the rotors. In some 
cases doing so could also direct more water at the brakes when it 
rains and you wouldn't want to do that. If you want to upgrade your 
brake system fix the pulsating pedal, replace the hoses with steel 
braided, get the cross-drilled rotors, and flush with Castrol GTLMA 
dot 4 brake fluid. If that isn't enough then don't ride with your foot 
on the brakes! Good practice reqires torquing the lugnuts to the 
proper torque per application (in this case #60 ft. lbs.) and 
alternating the tightening. At higer levels of torque sometimes you go 
halfway and then repeat at full torque and again after 50 miles of 
driving.You cannot measure torque by untorqueing a bolt, the breakaway 
torque changes everything, try it sometime by torqueing a bolt and 
then loosing it. Some torque wrenchs specificaly warn against 
torqueing "left handed". What warps rotors is inducing a stress by 
uneven torqueing and then overheating the rotors. The front rotors are 
prone to this because they are not "ventilated" ie: they don't have 
ribs separating the faces.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Does anyone have any suggestions on how to put vents in the front 
brake
> rotor dust shields?  



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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:45:02 -0000
From: "Michael DeLuca" <mdeluca_at_dml_comtechpst.com>
Subject: Re:1982 DMC is concours?

--- 
Regarding Fascias and concourse judging, I think all of the original 
fascia will show a tape mark from the original packing that was used 
to protect the DeLorean in transport (it may only be visible in 
certain lighting and at a correct viewing angle). The tape was 
installed at the factory!
So shouldn't a car that is truly original have points taken off if the 
fascias have been painted and are missing these marks? Which is more 
correct, a freshly painted fascia that looks perfect or an original 
one
that has what looks like a defect but is certainly more original and 
correct then a perfect fascia?

When I was first trying to understand Concourse judging I found a 
description that said something to the effect that in a 300 point 
competition a brand new Porch right off the show room floor would 
probably be a 150 point car.  A concourse car is not only what the car 
is but also what it should be. 

I think James Espey has done a great job with his concourse judging 
manual and has given us all a great bench mark for us all to use as a 
standard point of reference. Certain items will always be subjective 
and maybe even controversial. I don't think it is possible to come up 
with an absolutely correct standard.
At least now there is a published standard for DeLorean Concourse 
judging and if you want to win you try to meet that standard 
regardless of what you think is right or how it should be.

If this were a black and white issue there would be no need for judges 
at all. 

Mike D.
Vin 3113
NY Lic DLORIANN


In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, James Espey <james_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> Regarding the recent discussions about concours, aftermarket mods 
> (Tankzilla, braided steel clutch lines, etc) -
> 
> The Cooncours Judging Manual located here:
> 
> http://www.delorean.com/files/handbook.pdf
> 



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Message: 16
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:16:57 EDT
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: side markers

In a message dated 10/27/00 7:35:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com writes:

<<  or are they supposed to come on with the parking
 lights? >>
 

Jim,

    They are supposed to come on with the parking lights.  I sorta had the 
same problem with my front marker lights.  Turns out the sockets for the 
bulbs weren't connected to the marker lights, they were just hanging behind 
the fenders and they were so corroded and filled with dirt and everything I 
couldn't get them to work, so I just got a used wiring harness and alls well 
now.  

Later,
Nick
1852
Http://members.aol.com/njp548



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Message: 17
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:28:01 -0400
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re:1982 DMC is concours?

James Espey wrote:

> The Judges do NOT look in . . . the fuel pump
> access cover so if you have . . . one of the Zilla
> products, as long as you keep quiet about it,
> you won't get deducted.

[SNIP]

> I welcome the previous Millennium
> concours Judges thoughts and experiences.

I shall gladly accept the invitation.  Keep in mind that so far I have judged
undercarriage and engine compartment, not luggage compartment, operating
controls, or interior.

I think that it *is* possible to tell whether or not a DeLorean has a tankzilla
without digging into the fuel tank area.  When the key is turned, the fuel
guage of a Tankzilla car jumps in a way that a stock DeLorean does not.

(James, you might want to consider putting this in the next revision of the
Judges Manual).

> Generally speaking, common-sense safety/reliability
> updates are very minor deductions which can
> sometimes be offset by having the original part
> (in a concours-like condition) accompanying the
> car during judging (an example would be the coolant
> overflow bottles).

My feeling is that these *are* minor deductions, but deductions nonetheless.
Suppose I am judging two early '81 DeLoreans in side by side concours
competition.  Both owners have purchased Motorola alternators instead of the
stock Ducey.

Now suppose the first owner presents me with his old Ducey alternator in
pristine condition.  The second owner also has his Ducey alternator in perfect
condition, but he actually went to the trouble of removing the Motorola and
re-installing the Ducey before judging.

As a judge I must reward the second owner for going that extra mile.  The first
owner would get a very small point deduction.  If he did not show me the Ducey
alternator, or it was in poor condition, he would get a bigger deduction.

- Mike Substelny
VIN 01280, 7 years, Ducey alternator still going strong!




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Message: 18
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:04:01 -0700
From: steven.rogers_at_dml_us.cgeyc.com
Subject: Re: wanting info on smartly buying a delorean

I've owned my D for 13 years.

1. Are they reliable? I have 132,000 miles.  On a scale of 1-10 for
reliability i give it a 7.  Why? the cars are 20 years old.
I drive mine daily, and absolutely love it, but once every 2 years
something goes wrong (fuel pump, sensor, etc.)  Nothing
major, just down for a day or two.  I consider it a small price to pay for
a classic car that can't get door dings and doesn't
need waxing.  I also happen to work 5 minutes from a major west coast
delorean repair facility (DMC).  Before you buy,
make sure you know where you can get it repaired (any shop can do oil
changes) and get parts.

2. Ease of getting parts: I have less trouble get D parts than I do for my
wife's Durango.  Fewer cars, less demand,
parts in stock.  You won't get an original shock, but you can get a fine
replacement.  This is the least of your worries.

3. Major flaw?:  Cooling system.  Once you buy, replace all of the hoses,
learn how to refill and bleed your system.
Once you do that, you can go years without a problem.  These cars don't do
well in stop-and-go traffic if there is
air in the cooling system or if the sensors aren't working or if the water
pump has problems.  I once heard someone
say never mess with brakes and tires, always replace and buy the best.  On
the D, add cooling system.

4. If you want a daily driver, be cautious of cars with low miles.  Lots of
upgrades, replacements, etc. to get it to
daily driving condition.

5. Enjoy




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Message: 19
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:47:26 -0000
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: torque, warped rotors & dust shields

The dust shield is a misnomer; it really is intended to keep water off 
of the rotors.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Does anyone have any suggestions on how to put vents in the front 
brake
> rotor dust shields?  



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Message: 20
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:28:28 EDT
From: qrorell_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Roof leaking

I "had" the water drip problem. But the wind whistle was driving me nuts. I 
could not figure out what it was. Thanks for the info. If I figure out how to 
get the trim piece off this weekend I will drop a note on monday.

Barry



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Message: 21
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:46:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Roof leaking

It doesn't appear that the headliner is "wicking" the water out of the
well. Bill from DMC and I installed the headliners a couple months ago and
the cloth is trimmed right where it should be (not folded over into the
well). Also, there's really too much water coming in to have simply been
wicked. I'll see if I can get the metal piece off of the top of the
windshield this weekend and look for openings. Thanks guys!

-Christian


On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, Robert Rooney wrote:

> Where exactly is the water leaking in from? Is the headliner itself 
> wet and water is dripping from from the fabric? Or is water dripping 
> from between the headliners directly from the door seal?
>    
>    If the headliner is wet and water is comming from in front of the 
> visor where the windshield is then yes water is probably leaking in 
> from the glass. I've had this problem on other cars and the solution 
> was to shoot some silicone in between the wind shield (clear non-
> shrinking GE silicone II from home depot works very well for this job 
> and all sealing tasks in the service bulletin). You would have to 
> remove the black trim piece at the top of the windshield to gain 
> access, but I couldn't help you there on how to remove it. But on a 
> side note, on the cars I've had that have had this problem, the car 
> would get VERY noisy at higher speeds from the air rushing in.
>    
>    If water is dripping from the headliner behind the visor and leads 
> up to the door seal, then the problem is that your headliners 
> are "wicking" water. If this is the case, check in the gutter between 
> the door seal and the windshield to see if any cloth is sticking out 
> from between the rubber seal and the fiberglass. If so you will need 
> to remove the rubber to trim the cloth back. Other wise the cloth 
> dips into the draining water and will suck the water up and channel 
> it thru the cloth to drip inside. Just like a lantern wick does.
> 
>    If water is dripping down from between the headliners where the 
> door hits the rubber seal, one thing you can try would be to swap the 
> inner door seals with each other. That helps a little bit. But what I 
> ended up doing for my car after I switched seals was rather then push 
> the rubber all the way down, leave it attached only a little bit, 
> just enough to keep it in place. Then when you close the door, the 
> door will push the seal down as far as needs to seal. Manually 
> seating the seals by pushing them all the way down can create gaps.
> 
>    Other then that, make sure that you refer to Service Bulletin ST-
> 33-12/81 on water leaks to cover all other areas. Make sure that 
> after driving in wet weather that you pull up your floor mats to make 
> sure your carpet is dry. If not you may need to seal additional items 
> on the underside and/or in your wheelwell(s). Also keep the gutters 
> clean of leaves and dirt.
> 
> -Robert
> vin 6585
> 
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_f...> wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> > 
> > I haven't had my car long, and this past week was the first time I 
> had
> > ever driven it in rain. I discovered that when it's raining hard, 
> quite a
> > bit of water drips from the area near the passenger's sun visor. I 
> just
> > had the headliners replaced, so I certainly want to stop the leak 
> before
> > the foam rots out. 
> > 
> > As some of you guys might remember from the Chicago tech session, 
> the
> > passenger side of my car has been abused a bit. The tortion bar on 
> that
> > side is bent so badly that we couldn't get it to come out of the 
> car. The
> > T panel on the roof is bent up a bit on the passenger's side, and 
> there's
> > a crack that runs from the top to the bottom of the windshield. It 
> looks
> > like someone who didn't know what they were doing tried to adjust 
> the
> > door. 
> > 
> > Since the windshield is cracked, a new windshield is on my list of 
> things
> > to get. Do you think that some of the sealent that's used to hold 
> the
> > windshiled in might be cracked, allowing water to rush up the 
> windshiled,
> > underneath the black metal trim, and into the headliner? I'm 
> thinking that
> > this might be the case, and once the new windshield is fitted, that 
> will
> > solve the rain problem.
> > 
> > Also, passenger side seal E in this picture:
> > https://ssl.internetcreations.com/grady/images/sm_door1.gif
> > has quite a few holes in it. Or to put it better, it's almost as 
> good as
> > missing. The rest of the seals on the passengers side seem to be 
> fine, so
> > I'd assume that any rain that gets in through there would just be 
> routed
> > around and down to come out at the bottom of the door. Is this 
> right, or
> > might that water be able to get into the headliner near the sun 
> visor? The
> > water really seems to pour when I'm braking.
> > 
> > By the way, I never moved any further on installing the DVD 
> player/GPS
> > unit. If I'm sure that someone soon will make an all in one unit 
> that will
> > fit in the DeLorean's single stereo bay.
> > 
> > -Christian
> 
> 
> 
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 




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Message: 22
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:32:14 EDT
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: windshield and A posts (was Roof leaking)

In a message dated 10/26/00 10:26:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
delorean_at_dml_framezero.com writes:

<< Since the windshield is cracked, a new windshield is on my list of things
 to get. >>

Before you get your windshield, check your A post trims for warping.  They're 
the plastic channels framing in the windshield on either side of the inside.  
These can distort over time from sun and heat.  Part of them extends UNDER 
the windshield, so the only proper way to install them is with the windshield 
out.  Taking out a good windshield risks breaking it.  So now, if you're 
replacing your windshield, is your best chance if you need to do the A post 
trims too.
A post trims can be replaced without removing the windshield if the flap is 
trimmed, but they don't look quite as nice and tight.

-Wayne
vin 11174
The New DeLorean Manuals Project



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Message: 23
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 19:08:40 EDT
From: Delorean17_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Car running again..question

Hey list,
    I just got my car back from the VW shop.  It turns out that a vacuum line 
was broken and I had the timing pretty far off:)  He said its the first and 
hopefully the last DMC he works on, he said its so hard to get at everything, 
I totally agree (ie, distributor) .  He is a nice very nice guy to deal with 
and didnt charge much.
    He said I had a small water leak near the thermostat housing.  About 1/2 
way home the interior filled with smoke(back window is out,no, not from 
T-bars)  and the leak got very bad and was now leaking onto the muffler 
causing tons of smoke.  My house was about a 1/2 mile away so I just went for 
it and made it with one door open.  Engine was not overheated(gauge at 
normal) but I got some funny looks driving a smoking DeLorean.
    It is running great but it idles extremely high.  At the rear of the 
engine compartment there is a black ground wire coming from the wireing 
harness that goes to the ignition advance solenoid.(about 12 inches down from 
the solenoid connection with an "0" connector on the end)  When this wire is 
grounded the engine idles very high (over 2000 rpms)  when its not grounded 
the engine runs and idles fine.  What would cause this? am I hurting anything 
by leaving it taped up?

Thanks
David



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Message: 24
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:49:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>
Subject: Re: side markers

It looks like I'm going to have to do the same with mine. the left rear
works just fine, the right rear has fallen inward and will need to be
fished out and through the hole, the left front is missing the socket
part, and the right front is corroded beyond repair. So... this should be
fun. :)

-Christian

On Fri, 27 Oct 2000 njp548_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/27/00 7:35:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com writes:
> 
> <<  or are they supposed to come on with the parking
>  lights? >>
>  
> 
> Jim,
> 
>     They are supposed to come on with the parking lights.  I sorta had the 
> same problem with my front marker lights.  Turns out the sockets for the 
> bulbs weren't connected to the marker lights, they were just hanging behind 
> the fenders and they were so corroded and filled with dirt and everything I 
> couldn't get them to work, so I just got a used wiring harness and alls well 
> now.  
> 
> Later,
> Nick
> 1852
> Http://members.aol.com/njp548
> 
> 
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 




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Message: 25
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 19:31:18 -0600
From: Jack Janney <fastride_at_dml_mciworld.com>
Subject: Re: wanting info on smartly buying a delorean

Andy,

As for your question of a daily driver......
I spotted another DeLorean today and followed him to the parking lot (I was
riding in a friends Subaru SVX).  I walk up to talk to him and I get this
annoyed, "not another dweeb who wants to drool on my DeLorean"  look.  The
guy realizes I'm not going to give up that easily so starts answering my
questions.  Turns out he bought the car in '86 (used with 19,000 miles) and
uses it as a daily driver with somewhere around 110,000 miles now on the
clock.  Aside from the usual emission control/rear tailights/droopy
headliner/instruments not working problems, his car had been pretty
reliable.  He did mention a couple of issues with the fuel pump I hadn't
read about.  I was kind of surprised over the whole conversation.  He was
pretty blase about the car, kinda like "what are you making such a big deal
over a DeLorean".  I'm getting the feeling there are two kinds of DeLorean
owners.  The rabid fanatics (most of who are on this net, myself included)
and the "accidental owners" who could have been just as happy driving a Saab
900 or something but somehow wound up with a DeLorean.

Jack Janney
#10109  (1 week old)

----- Original Message -----
From: <Soma576_at_dml_aol.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 12:51 AM
Subject: [DML] wanting info on smartly buying a delorean


> hey everyone,
>
> this is my first post to the dmcnews-list.  i hope this does not offend
> anyone because i'm sure 99% of you have deloreans already and are crazy
about



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