From: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 2:47 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 277

Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com

There are 14 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: ADMIN: Chat room
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com

2. Delorean in news
From: "Aaron Husak" <aaronhusak_at_dml_hotmail.com>

3. Re: Re:1982 DMC is concours?
From: Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>

4. VIN 4512
From: "Erik Geerdink" <delorean502_at_dml_excite.com>

5. Re: Re: Running rich
From: "chris" <chris_at_dml_internets.freeserve.co.uk>

6. Re: water pump dead?
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

7. Water in spark plug holes (was Re: Running rich)
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

8. Re: Re:1982 DMC is concours?
From: jus4sho_at_dml_aol.com

9. Re: wanting info on smartly buying a delorean
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

10. Up and running
From: "Matthew P. Olans" <mpolans_at_dml_creeper.com>

11. Re: Re:1982 DMC is concours?
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

12. Website
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

13. Inertia Switch Impact force
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>

14. Re: Re: Running rich
From: iznodmad_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:33:32 EST
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Chat room

Also another note about setting up a chat room...AOL only allows 23 people in 
a chat room at a time.  The best solution to this is to use the chat room 
feature in eGroups, just like DMC Houston does everyone once and a while for 
the tech session with Stephen Wynne.  

Later,
Nick
1852
Http://members.aol.com/njp548



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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:09:52 -0800
From: "Aaron Husak" <aaronhusak_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Delorean in news


For plenty of sarcasm check  out:

http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2000/10/24/home_auto/q_delorean_column/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:17:13 -0500
From: Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>
Subject: Re: Re:1982 DMC is concours?

I think this is where the bulk of disagreement lies with the opinions on how the
car should be judged.

It is widely accepted that there were design flaws in the DeLorean.  If you have
a DeLorean that came from the factory with the Ducey, and have made the WISE
decision to replace it with a more reliable part, this should be considered a
good thing.  If anything, a car with the under rated Ducey should loose points,
because that is the car that will be stuck on the side of the road at some point
so hundreds of people driving by can see a broken down DeLorean.

Of course, if the concourse judging was not set up this way, there would be less
of these "correct", but unsafe and unreliable parts sold.

Points should be deducted on cars that do NOT have the well known safety and
reliability upgrades.  The "Perfect" DeLorean (which is what started this
thread) should be a car that is safe and reliable to drive.

Not that any of this effects me, because I do not compete in the DeLorean
Concourse events..  It just bugs me that there is a system in place that
encourages owners to not repair known design flaws that effect safety and
reliability.


Mike Substelny wrote:
> 
> > Generally speaking, common-sense safety/reliability
> > updates are very minor deductions which can
> > sometimes be offset by having the original part
> > (in a concours-like condition) accompanying the
> > car during judging (an example would be the coolant
> > overflow bottles).
> 
> My feeling is that these *are* minor deductions, but deductions nonetheless.
> Suppose I am judging two early '81 DeLoreans in side by side concours
> competition.  Both owners have purchased Motorola alternators instead of the
> stock Ducey.
> 
<SNIP>



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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:14:13 -0000
From: "Erik Geerdink" <delorean502_at_dml_excite.com>
Subject: VIN 4512

Hello,
I've received some e-mails over the past 3 months asking the 
condition of VIN 4512.  As some of you know, I was "alone" in 
Cleveland.  My Delorean was in the presents of Micah Fryman and Marty 
Maier getting a lot done to it.  As of this Saturday (Oct28) 
everything that we wanted completed is DONE!  The car looks, feels, 
and performs totally different now.
My car was pretty much a complete disaster, and I didn't know 
it.(DON'T BUY THE FIRST CAR YOU FIND, unless it's really good) 
Starting from the front of the car, this is what was done.

All new suspension, except the springs.  The shocks are from the Mid 
State DMC Club and are great!!  The steering rack was rebuilt and is 
perfect.  Mine was so bad that it's amazing I'm not dead.  They said 
it was the worst "working" steering rack they've seen.
I also had my fascias repainted

I also had just about every cooling and fuel line/hose replaced 
because mine were dry rotted and cracked.

My transmission was leaking so that was rebuilt.  My clutch was 
soaked in oil, so that was replaced.

The engine was taken apart, cleaned, painted, and then put back 
together.  While doing that, everypart that had wear on it was 
replaced.  So my engine performs like a champ now.  I put on an '82 
muffler with the cool tips on it.  

My electrical compartment was a mess, so that was redone and now I'm 
safe :)

As far as interior goes, my seats were redone, headliners replaced 
and my carpet was cleaned.

All this was completed by the beginning of September.  but this past 
weekend we needed to do more work to it (the tranny was still 
leaking).
I had my parts car at Micahs house, so he took the tranny from that 
and had it all ready for us.  I left my house early Friday morning 
with the Delorean on my flatbed.  7 hours later we got to Micahs 
house.  Rolled the D off the trailer and started to work.  We decided 
to just drop the transmission instead of pulling the engine and 
tranny out.  We started work at around 6pm...at 12am the tranny was 
out.  Called it a day and started working again Saturday morning.  To 
make a really long story short, that evening we got the "new" 
Transmission in and everything re-adjusted.  Replaced the clutch 
again because it was soaked.  
Sunday morning we made our 7 hour trek back home to Michigan with the 
parts car on the trailer and me in the Delorean.  The car performed 
beautifully!  Not a single problem.  All my gauges were where they 
needed to be, my gas milage was perfect..about 26MPG.  Best of 
all...no leaks.
So, that were 4512 stands now.  gradually it is coming back from the 
dead.
Thanks to Micah and Marty for putting in the long months getting my 
car back on the road and making it safe.

Erik Geerdink
4512





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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:25:51 -0000
From: "chris" <chris_at_dml_internets.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Running rich

John

I have replaced all the HT leads, distibutor cap, rotor arm, spark plugs and
coil. The distributor it self is very corroded but i drove 120 miles last
month and the car performed great. The timming is slightly  out it is around
11deg instead of 13deg, could this be a problem?
Also i get the impression i should hear a loud buzzing noise from the
frequency valve, but i dont remember it? Would the car run rich if the
frequency valve was not working OK?

Thanks

Chris Vin 16327

PS have not changed O2 sensor yet cos could not get it out, any tips? Ive
been told they should come out with no problems but mine seems stuck?

----- Original Message -----
From: John Hervey <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 5:53 PM
Subject: [DML] Re: Running rich


> Chris, The oxygen sensor is a good part to replace for fuel economy
> if you think it's running a to rich. But with some of the other
> problems your having with starting and running I would hold off on
> the o2 till those problems are worked out. The problems your having
> now could contaminate the new sensor so it won't work properly after
> you get the starting and running problems worked out. Sound like your
> car has a fireing problem. Have you checked for water in the plug
> holes or bad wires. I had the same problems with spluttering and
> small back fires with spark problems on cars that I leave parked
> outside. I have to blow the water out of the spark plug holes every
> now and then.
> John Hervey
>
>  --- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, Chris Spratt <chris_at_dml_i...> wrote:
> > Hi list
> >
> > I am in need of your expert advice. My car is running way to rich.
> I have had problems starting it too, but have replaced the all the HT
> stuff as i have lots of corrosion on my car. The other day my cat was
> glowing red as too much unburnt fuel was getting into it. But the car
> now runs but if i rev it or try to move the car it just pops and
> spluters. Also when the car has been running for a while the air flap
> starts juddering and there appears to be more exaust fumes.
> > I am about to replace the Oxygen sensor too
> >
> > Any other ideas? DMC Joe? Help
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Chris Vin 16327
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
> _
> > FSmail - Get your free web-based email from Freeserve:
> www.fsmail.net
>
>
>
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>




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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:18:51 -0000
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: water pump dead?

The first thing I would try to do is bleed the system. Keep the header 
bottle 1/2 full, pressurize the system a little with a pressure tester 
and open the bleeder screw over the water pump until coolant comes 
out. Recheck the level in the header bottle and then loosen the little 
hose on the top right side of the radiater. Be careful not to break 
off the plastic nipple on the radiater tank. Let any air out and 
retighten. Recheck the level in the header bottle and rebleed the 
water pump. You may have to repeat. If there is air in the pump then 
it is not moving the coolant.You should not run the fans constantly 
unless running the a/c It is hard on the electrical system.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, Delorean17_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hello,
>     My car gets hot really fast now.  If I start it up for a minute 
or two, 
> the gage is near 225 so I have to turn it off.  I have the cooling 
fans set 
> to run at all times and I also have an overheat protector from DMC 
Joe on it.
>     I used to get a ssssss noise when I removed the overflow cap but 
I no 
> longer do.(when it stayed cool)  someone mentioned the water pump.  
how can I 
> test it to see if it is working correctly?  the system is full of 
coolant and 
> I have about an 1-1/2 inches in the overflow bottle.  I checked 
everything 
> out and I dont see any leaks.  any ideas on what this could be would 
be 
> greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> David




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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:26:16 -0500
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Water in spark plug holes (was Re: Running rich)

John notes he has problems with water occasionally in his spark plug 
holes, which is almost always because the original plug wires are 
replaced with a cheaper aftermarket wire. The OEM wires have a 
special seal around them to prevent this, which all the aftermarket 
wires I have seen DON'T HAVE. Another area where trying to save a few 
bucks can cause more problems than if you and just bought the right 
part in the first place.

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company
Houston, Texas

281/568-9573
800/USA-DMC1
http://www.delorean.com

(SNIP)

>Have you checked for water in the plug
>holes or bad wires. I had the same problems with spluttering and
>small back fires with spark problems on cars that I leave parked
>outside. I have to blow the water out of the spark plug holes every
>now and then.
>John Hervey



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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:52:33 EST
From: jus4sho_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re:1982 DMC is concours?

Marc A Levy wrote:
"...Points should be deducted on cars that do NOT have the well known safety 
and
reliability upgrades.  The "Perfect" DeLorean (which is what started this
thread) should be a car that is safe and reliable to drive..."

Marc, while I don't disagree with you that our cars SHOULD have safety 
upgrades performed, I don't know how this could be incorporated into a 
concourse judging system.  In order for the judging to be fair, all safety 
upgrades would have to be captured in some sort of list (making this list 
would be good for all of us.) along with the "concourse-acceptable" method of 
making the upgrade.  And who decides what the acceptable upgrade is?  If 
everyone agrees that the original Ducy alternator is a lemon, then is a 
Motorola the only acceptable replacement?  What if I could show that a 
certain Chevy alternator is more relaible, more readily available, cheaper 
and has a higher output than the Motorola?  It just seems that there are an 
infinite number of ways to define an upgraded Delorean, but far fewer to 
define an "original" Delorean.

Again, I'm not disputing the merits of safety upgrades, but I think you're 
fighting a losing battle.  Personally I think most concourse cars are little 
more than trailer queens that might as well stay in the garage.  They are 
automobiles REDUCED to art.

Steve
VIN 2650 ("Project Delorean") 





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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:38:02 -0500
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Re: wanting info on smartly buying a delorean



Soma576_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

> 1. in your experience, how reliable is the delorean
> as an average-driven car?

It's the best 20 year old car you can get as a daily driver.  Be sure you have
enough money to spend to keep it on the road, though (I suggest at least
$1,600/year).  You should expect any 20 year old car to be in the shop about once
a year for minor problems.

> is there anything fatal i should be looking for when
> looking at a delorean for sale?
Check out the various buyer's guides on the Internet. The DOA website has a
"buyer's tips" page, DMC Houston has a "Car Inspection Checklist" and the DMC
News website has a shorter "New Owner Checklist."

> finally - is there anyone out there who knows where i can get a
> good condition delorean in the upper midwest?

Is Ohio too low in the Midwest for you?

A few weeks ago I saw a very nice DeLorean that Dave Bauerle recently put up for
sale at his DeLorean service facility in central Ohio.  His wife was roadtesting
it by using it as a daily driver for a few weeks, and she said it had been very
reliable.  Call him at (740) 595-3348 to see if that DeLorean has been sold.  I
consider Dave to be very honest and would not hesitate to buy from him.  His last
name is pronounced Bow-er-lee.

- Mike Substelny
VIN 01280, 7 years




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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:20:43 -0500
From: "Matthew P. Olans" <mpolans_at_dml_creeper.com>
Subject: Up and running

Well,
        A while back on my way to work in traffic my D gave the smoke-screen
to all behind me.  I knew I was losing coolant-hey, I'm not completely
stupid....:).  I was fortunate enough to find a U-turn (something Jersey is
good for) and get headed back home.  Had the heat on full blast and was
moving around 40 MPH so the car stayed between 220 and 260 until I came to
my complex.  As I came to the stop sign I watched the temp gauge climb fast.
I got moving and shut the car down to avoid any damage (thanks to reading
this list and knowing the fail-safe temperatures).  I coasted back into my
parking spot and that's where she sat for about three weeks.
        When it was cool I popped the engine cover and sure enough the
coolant system was bone dry.  A leak, but where?  I haven't had time to
check until yesterday.  Dan (DanRC30) from New Jersey came over and helped
me get it running.  He put in a self-bleeder kit that he made from under $10
worth of parts from any local car parts store.  We started filling the
system and the coolant came rushing out from the bottom of the car just
forward and to the right of the left rear wheel.  There was a 3" section of
2" diameter hose that was the culprit.  We removed it to see it had outlived
it's usefulness.  A quick trip to Pep Boys and $8 later (because the only 2"
diameter hose they had was a GM preformed radiator hose-nothing a razorblade
couldn't handle) we were filling the system without any hazmat on the
ground.
        The self bleeding system worked great!  All the air is out of the
system and it's running normal.  She made the trip back to Dan's house
where's she awaiting TLC.  Dan is a great teacher and definitely a good
friend to come out and get me running and on the road again.  I know my car
is in good hands.  The problem is we both work and it's going to take a
while.  So since I have your ears....after reading the post I was wondering
what you would recommend I check/replace?

1. I plan to have all the hoses done now.  Is the cost of braided steel
worth it, i.e. will they be more durable for the cooling system and should
they last any longer?
2. Should I replace the otterstat?
3. My fans work fine and come on at the right time.  Should I invest in a
relay update kit? (No fanzilla installed)--age old adage: if it ain't broke,
don't fix it.
4. How tough is it to replace the thermostat?
5. My right side exhaust manifold gasket is going, starting to hear the
telltale "tick".  Can I do any damage by driving it now, maybe 2,000 miles,
before getting it to a qualified DeLorean mechanic?
6. My A/C blows cold, heater blows hot, but the climate control only works
with the fan speed in 4 and the defroster selection does not blow out the
defroster vents.  I know others have had these issues.  Are they all related
to one event or could it be a multitude of issues?

        Thanks.  I think that should do it.  One final thank you to Dan for
really going above and beyond.  I've read a lot of posts where he's helped
people out and I tell you they are all 100% true.  It's nice to know we have
people like this in our community.
        The digital dash is almost ready.  Dakota Digital is finishing up
the final phases and they have told me they have created a really nice
looking dash.  I'll get pictures and hopefully video as soon as I receive it
and get it installed....probably another 90 days or so.

Thanks!
Matthew
VIN #10365





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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:28:32 -0500
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: Re:1982 DMC is concours?

>I think this is where the bulk of disagreement lies with the 
>opinions on how the
>car should be judged.

Actually, the bulk of disagreement lies because people do not 
understand the definition of "concours". Rather than repeat myself, 
see my posting here:

http://www.egroups.com/message/dmcnews/10997

People wanting to see more of the previous "go around" that Marc and 
I have had on this should read the archives for October of 1999 - 
http://www.dmcnews.com/backissues/oct99.html

>It is widely accepted that there were design flaws in the DeLorean. 
>If you have
>a DeLorean that came from the factory with the Ducey, and have made the WISE
>decision to replace it with a more reliable part, this should be considered a
>good thing.  If anything, a car with the under rated Ducey should 
>loose points,
>because that is the car that will be stuck on the side of the road 
>at some point
>so hundreds of people driving by can see a broken down DeLorean.

Replacing the alternator, clutch lines, header bottle, etc ARE good 
things - if your car is used as a "driver". Neither of the winners of 
the past two "Millennium" concours use their cars as "drivers" and 
both were trailered to and from the show, so the odds of "hundreds of 
people" seeing them broken down on the side of road is unlikely.

>Of course, if the concourse judging was not set up this way, there 
>would be less
>of these "correct", but unsafe and unreliable parts sold.

I'm not sure where you're going with this, but I *know* that the bulk 
of Ducellier alternators we sell are to people who would prefer to 
save money over buying a Motorola, not because they're concours 
people. I don't think we've EVER sold an original clutch line to 
anyone, and there are no "new" overflow bottles in existence.

>Points should be deducted on cars that do NOT have the well known safety and
>reliability upgrades.  The "Perfect" DeLorean (which is what started this
>thread) should be a car that is safe and reliable to drive.

The thread started because someone referred to a "perfect" car as 
being "concours". The terms are quite different, which again, as I 
mentioned above, is where most of the disagreement lies. Therein also 
lies the flaw in your logic when you say "Points should be deducted 
on cars that do NOT have the well known safety and reliability 
upgrades."

>Not that any of this effects me, because I do not compete in the DeLorean
>Concourse events..  It just bugs me that there is a system in place that
>encourages owners to not repair known design flaws that effect safety and
>reliability.

I think it's a stretch to say the concours rules encourage owners to 
neglect safety and reliability in their DeLoreans. The rules and 
point deduction guidelines are quite lenient in these areas, and many 
of them items you mention are relatively easy for the owner of 
average skills to remove and replace as needed. The one item that 
isn't easy, savvy competitors have already found a way around.

Always in search of a good debate,

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company
Houston, Texas

281/568-9573
800/USA-DMC1
http://www.delorean.com



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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:38:24 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Website

Hi guys, I just wanted to let everyone know that I was having some 
technical difficulties with my website today. If you tried to visit 
it today and it was offline, you can go there now. I've fixed the 
problem. Thanks.

Steve
www.dmcman.homestead.com




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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:43:07 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Inertia Switch Impact force

I was wondering about how hard the car would have to hit somthing to 
trigger the inertia switch.  I was thinking that I may not have been 
able to follow the car that pulled in front of me a month ago had I 
had one, and it tripped, killing my engine.  I was thinking that if I 
did get in a serious accident in which the engine stalled, wouldn't 
the RPM relay shut off the fuel pump?  When I bought my car the 
previous owner had removed the inertia switch. (I didn't know this of 
course.)  Then two weeks later it wouldn't start due to corroded 
contacts on the jumper put in place of the switch.  Right now, I have 
a new jumper in place and I was going to buy a new switch this 
winter.  But my list for this winter has just gotten too expensive so 
now I'm looking for things to cut or items that really dont need to 
be addressed right away.  So any input would be greatly appreciated.  
Thanks.

Jim Reeve
#6960




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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:31:56 EST
From: iznodmad_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Running rich

Chris, 
    Your problem sounds similar to one I experienced just this time last 
year.  I had all the parts replaced that you mentioned as well.  The car 
would idle perfectly, but it just would not accelerate, only spit and 
sputter.  It would be wise to check all fuel hoses starting at the fuel tank 
and working backwards towards the engine.  By chance does the fuel pump moan 
or make funny sounds?  My problem turned out to be a collapsed fuel hose, 
specifically the one on the input side of the accumulator, which I had just 
replaced a month or so before the problem started.  And even if it is brand 
new, like it was in my case, it could still be collapsed.  Once I had a clean 
path for the fuel to travel, no more problems.  And if you have already done 
this, just disregard my suggestion b/c I have no other ideas.  If you have 
any questions, feel free to e-mail me personally.  Good luck.

Regards,
Darren Decker
VIN 5000
Iznodmad(at)aol.com      



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