Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 5:20 PM
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 278

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Up and running

2. Re: Water in spark plug holes (was Re: Running rich)

3. RE: Restore your steering wheel.
From: "Doc" <>

4. Re: Leaf stains!
From: "DMC Joe" <>

5. AOL Chat Scheduled

6. Re: Inertia Switch Impact force
From: "Ryan Bennett" <>

7. Re: Re:1982 DMC is concours?
From: Marc A Levy <>

8. Re: re: Dave Bauerle (smartly buying a delorean)

9. Free VIN search
From: "Walter" <>

10. Re: Coolant Leak?
From: "DMC Joe" <>

11. Headlight problems (Again, and still)

12. Re: Water in spark plug holes (was Re: Running rich)

13. Backlighting the dash

14. RE: Re:1982 DMC is concours?
From: "Gus Schlachter" <>

15. My glorious return
From: Noah <>

16. Automatic or Manual
From: "W.D.SEARLS, JR." <>

17. RE: Re:1982 DMC is concours?
From: "Mike & Ann Griese" <>

18. RE: DML-Running rich

19. D Owner's list : D spotted
From: Beer Here <>

20. Re: water pump dead?
From: "Steve Rubano" <>

21. Chris Coplen!!!!????
From: "Erik Geerdink" <>

22. Re:1982 DMC is concours?
From: " " <>

23. Re: Inertia Switch Impact force
From: " " <>

24. Re: Running rich
From: " " <>

25. Re: Inertia Switch Impact force
From: "Walter" <>

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:48:11 EST
Subject: Re: Up and running

I only want to address one question that you asked.  If you are going to 
replace the cooling system hoses I would suggest doing them in silicon.  The 
reason for this is that you will never have to do it again.  Next time I do 
mine, that will be the way I do it.  Except for the curved pieces of course, 
unless someone develops a suitable silicon replacement.  I think Rob Grady 
was working on this at one time, but I am not totally positive.  As for the 
other parts (otterstat, thermostat), treat them the same way you do the fan 
relay......if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  Good luck.

Darren Decker 


Message: 2
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:50:14 -0800
Subject: Re: Water in spark plug holes (was Re: Running rich)

I find water still gets in the spark plug holes even with OEM covers if you
take the car through
a car wash with the motor off.  It seems if the motor is running, due to
vibration and heat, water
doesn't get in (like a drive-through car wash).

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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:00:25 -0500
From: "Doc" <>
Subject: RE: Restore your steering wheel.

I am holding the list for restoring steering wheels open until Nov. 08 2000.

The pricing starts at $189.99 for the full wheel (Center cap not included)
and $129.99 for the just the grip only.

These prices are subject to lower if I can organize persons wanting to
restore their steering wheels. So if you are interested in have your
steering wheel restored please send me an email at (Please
don't sent replies to the DML)

MODERATOR NOTE - his email is doctor280(at)

Robert Starling


Message: 4
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:00:08 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: Leaf stains!

Carburetor cleaner will easily remove your leaf stains. To prevent overspray
apply the product with a rag.

"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <>
Web Site: <>

----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Heslop <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 9:39 AM
Subject: [DML] Leaf stains!

> I recentely left my DeLorean outside while the leaves were falling.  Ok,
> mistake to begine with since it took me a half hour to clean them out from
> under the louver, bonnet, door channels, etc.
> But the big problem is, the stains they left on the SS.  It rained quite a
> bit and these leaves were "glued" to the car for a while.  I've tried hot
> soapy water, pressure wash, Windex, PrepSol, and 3M General Purpose
> Adheasive Cleaner.  None can get these brown leaf outlines off my car!
> Any ideas????  Stainless steel cleaners?  Acetone?
> Thanks, --Jonathan  #000697


Message: 5
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:14:22 EST
Subject: AOL Chat Scheduled

The AOL DeLorean chat will be scheduled for Wednesday at 5 pm
Pacific, 8 eastern.  It will be in the Special Interests catagory,
under the title "DeLorean Chat".  We'll be there until everyone
goes home, and I'm not sure if it will be an everyday thing, so
for right now we'll plan it for Wednesday evening and see how
it goes.  (If the room happens to fill up, I'll start a second one.)

So for all the AOL members who want a place to go to talk
about DeLoreans, come prepared to talk!  I hope you have fun,



Message: 6
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:47:12 -0800
From: "Ryan Bennett" <>
Subject: Re: Inertia Switch Impact force


The purpose of the inertia switch is to cut power to the fuel pump in the
event that the vehicle becomes inverted (overturned) while the engine is
running, in order to prevent a fuel ignition. The mechanism is a weighted
plunger switch, where the open circuit (off) mode is in the UP position.  If
I am incorrect on this point, someone feel free to correct me.

-Ryan Bennett

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Reeve" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 12:43 PM
Subject: [DML] Inertia Switch Impact force

> I was wondering about how hard the car would have to hit somthing to
> trigger the inertia switch.  I was thinking that I may not have been
> able to follow the car that pulled in front of me a month ago had I
> had one, and it tripped, killing my engine.  I was thinking that if I
> did get in a serious accident in which the engine stalled, wouldn't
> the RPM relay shut off the fuel pump?  When I bought my car the
> previous owner had removed the inertia switch. (I didn't know this of
> course.)  Then two weeks later it wouldn't start due to corroded
> contacts on the jumper put in place of the switch.  Right now, I have
> a new jumper in place and I was going to buy a new switch this
> winter.  But my list for this winter has just gotten too expensive so
> now I'm looking for things to cut or items that really dont need to
> be addressed right away.  So any input would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks.
> Jim Reeve
> #6960


Message: 7
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:17:04 -0500
From: Marc A Levy <>
Subject: Re: Re:1982 DMC is concours?

James Espey wrote:
> Actually, the bulk of disagreement lies because people do not
> understand the definition of "concours". Rather than repeat myself,
> see my posting here:

I just re-read this message, and do not see a definition of "Concours", but I do
see you talk about your experience with Corvette shows.  I hardly think that
because that is the way Covette shows are run that it need to be the way
DeLorean shows are run.  Mike made a good point earlier in this thread that a
Porche concours expects that the owner has made improvements on the car, and
that a perfectly original car would not be a winning car...  So who is correct?

I do agree that most "concours" shows are run in a similar way, but that does
not make it right... Especially in the case of the DeLorean.

> >Of course, if the concourse judging was not set up this way, there
> >would be less
> >of these "correct", but unsafe and unreliable parts sold.
> I'm not sure where you're going with this, but I *know* that the bulk
> of Ducellier alternators we sell are to people who would prefer to
> save money over buying a Motorola, not because they're concours
> people. I don't think we've EVER sold an original clutch line to
> anyone, and there are no "new" overflow bottles in existence.

I think it is clear, that there is a obvious business motivation to design the
judging as it currently stands.  I hope you and Stephen dont take this as a
personal attack, I just thought it was obvious to everyone.  From a business
stand point, it is a good idea.  You seem to agree with this in your reference
to the post above ( where you

> Because people will spend literally hundreds of thousands of 
> dollars preparing their cars for Bloomington, the greatest of all 
> Corvette shows. 

I do not find fault with this, I was just stating what I thought was obvious. 
That is there is a business motivation (as small as it may be, based on your
comment above) behind the design of the judging.

> Always in search of a good debate,

I am glad you see it that way...  After I wrote that last message I was worried
that it may be considered a flame, but it was not intended to be.


Message: 8
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:52:08 EST
Subject: Re: re: Dave Bauerle (smartly buying a delorean)

I agree with Mike S.   yesterday was the first day I spoke to Dave Bauerle. I
could not get my "D" started.    He gave some suggestions.   I did get my
"D" started  ( also with the help from thr DML), but Dave Bauerle was very 
and helpful.  I am planning on taking my "D" to him to have some upgrades 
All it took was one conversation with him to convince me that he seems to be
honest and reliable.   This is what customer service is about. 

Dave L.


Message: 9
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:29:06 -0500
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: Free VIN search

If you send me your VIN number for this search, I need to know the whole vin
number -- not just the last few digits.  Send it to me in a private e-mail
and I'll forward to you what I find about your car.  Do not post search
requests to the DML or you will probably get the moderator upset.

This search is good (should be good) for any car that has been titled in the
US or Canada.  I'm only doing this for Deloreans.  My search membership
expires in two months from today.  So don't e-mail me with requests after
Dec 31 2000.

A search of my car was interesting since I knew from the dealer key fob that
it came from Illinois.  The earliest record of the car I could find was
January 1999 and it says that it was not built to US emissions
specifications.  Then 9 days later it was titled in Florida where it passed
emissions.  Strange!

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 10
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:30:34 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: Coolant Leak?


The most accurate way to detect a coolant leak is by conducting a cooling
system pressure test. If you don't own a pressure tester just take your "D"
to your favorite mechanic; most service facilities are equipped for this

"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <>
Web Site: <>

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Rooney <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 11:07 PM
Subject: [DML] Coolant Leak?

A couple of weeks ago in traffic my car overheated because of a
faulty cooling fan. While the temp didn't go over 240, this isn't
the first time my car has been this hot. Although I did blow my
radiator cap (since replaced). Ever since my car has be "drinking"
coolant. At least once a week I have to fill the overflow bottle. Now
I know that I have a slight leak from the hose behind my water pump
that connects to the Y-pipe. But I'm unable to see any coolant
puddles on the top of the block any longer, and there's no antifreeze
on my garage floor. Yesterday I thought I smelled burning coolant
when I got out. I thought it may be a bad head gasket, but I can't
see any water in my oil, and my oil level is staying the same. But
I'm only looking at the dipstick. Plus my coolant stays clean. So as
you can guess I have a couple of questions:

1. Is it possible that because I'm in cold weather now that when the
coolant leaks on top of the block it just steams away?

2. If I have a bad headgasket could the same be true only the steam
would exit thru the crakcase breather?

3. What exactly would I look for when I do an oil change to find
water in the oil?

Thanks in advance!

vin 6585

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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:13:00 EST
Subject: Headlight problems (Again, and still)

Yeah that's right.
How many have we had?
Anyway, I have some low beam problems, the high beams work, and we know the 
actual blubs work, and when I have the button on the "second click," the dash 
says they are on but the lights themselves are not.

Please help!
John Feldman
VIN 4275


Message: 12
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:48:49 EST
Subject: Re: Water in spark plug holes (was Re: Running rich)

James, Is right about cheaper wires ( Pepboys, Autozone some local  parts 
houses) don't have the same seal around the top or the groves, but the fact 
is wires do leak and condensation sets in.  I bought 11004 wires mine from 
DMC Houston 3 years ago and depending on how much it sits out, water and 
condensation gets in. I have used Bosch and Volvo much to the same demise. 
Wires are not hermatically sealed and will come loose and leak. If there had 
been a better designed not to retain water in the holes if it got in then 
there would be no reason for a sealed wire in any brand.   
John Hervey 


Message: 13
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:32:45 EST
Subject: Backlighting the dash

Dear List,
With the new digital dash coming, I wondered if it was possible to take the 
original dash gauges and make a backlit version? I figured that all of the 
sections could be etched and lights installed behind those gauges. This way, 
we can retain the original gauges, warning lights and logo and have a cleaner 
look when the headlights are on. Any ideas?
Joshua Schwartz
Trumbull, CT 


Message: 14
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:41:28 -0600
From: "Gus Schlachter" <>
Subject: RE: Re:1982 DMC is concours?

Hmmm...I'm sure I've already made my position on concours clear.  (Hint: the
next time I get judged, I want it to be by God.)

BUT:  James, you make some good points.  I would expect a car *advertised*
as concours or "concours-ready" to have ALL original parts, receipts, etc.
and have no modifications that could not be easily reverted to stock.  I
would also expect it to have no visibly worn parts (pedals, steering wheel,
seats, carpet) and be very clean, if not downright immaculate.  A perfect
Delorean, OTOH, goes to work with me every day.  :-)

A car advertised as a "concours winner" would probably not get my attention.
Such a car is more of a museum piece and I buy cars to drive.

Yeah, that's it!  Think of a concours as a contest to see which car gets
into the Smithsonian, which would clearly be for trailer-queen,
garage-dwellers only.  Amongst cars that are driven daily, the only measure
of perfection is the level of joy the car imparts unto the driver, and in
that case we're all winners.

Gus Schlachter
Austin, TX
VIN# 4695

P.S.  ...only some of us get to the winner's circle faster than others, ha
ha ha

> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Espey []
> Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 11:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [DML] Re:1982 DMC is concours?
> ...The thread started because someone referred to a "perfect" car as
> being "concours". The terms are quite different, which again, as I
> mentioned above, is where most of the disagreement lies...


Message: 15
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:09:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Noah <>
Subject: My glorious return

home again, home again, jiggety-jig. well. almost home. actually at a
friend's place at the moment. Anyhoo. somewhere between houston and here,
I noted a small problem. The idle speed when the car is hot is around
1500rpm. When just started, it does the little "vroom-vroom" to keep
running, which, IIRC, is normal (feel free to correct me) and then idles
normally. Needless to say, 1500 rpm is a) not correct and b) makes
shifting into first an unpleasant experience (at the mooment, I'm starting
in 2nd). Mucking through the list archives, the problem would appear to be
in the idle speed microswitch and/or in the idle speed ECU. I don't know
much car stufff, but have no problem with tackling stuff that doesn't
involve Lots(tm) of disassembly.

So, the question is, how to I test for microswitch failure (short of
ordering a replacement and seeing if it works)? And if it passes, how to I
test the ECU? And if /that/ passes, what else could it be?

Ok, that's three questions. So I lied. Oh, I don't (yet) have the shop
manuals, so I'm gonna need a bit of a walk through. I'll buy one when I
have money again, which may be a little while. Did I mention that I just
bought a delorean? :)

VIN 2867 (and loving it, I might add)

"Where's my fruit cup?" "Behind the bison."
                        -- Kevin & Kell (Sept 22, 1995)


Message: 16
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:30:18 -0500
From: "W.D.SEARLS, JR." <>
Subject: Automatic or Manual

I have been wanting to know the pros and cons of owning a manual or an
automatic. I have heard bad stories about automatic(expensive repair costs)
and the same about manual(not very durable). If anyone would like to offer
their educated opinion please do so.



Message: 17
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:03:42 -0600
From: "Mike & Ann Griese" <>
Subject: RE: Re:1982 DMC is concours?

Safety and reliability is not the point of
a concours event.  Originality is.  That's why
Bloomington Gold certified Corvettes have overspray
in all the right places, why thoroughbred
Mustangs have not only OEM parts, but documented
correct date codes for ALL parts.  It's also why
you can buy punch kits to restrike block numbers in
the correct font, rubber stamps to duplicate date codes
and inspection marks and people send their kids to
college by running restoration shops.

Mike Griese
3335 County Road 15 SW
Byron, MN  55920

-----Original Message-----
From: Marc A Levy []
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] Re:1982 DMC is concours?

I think this is where the bulk of disagreement lies with the opinions on how
car should be judged.

It is widely accepted that there were design flaws in the DeLorean.  If you
a DeLorean that came from the factory with the Ducey, and have made the WISE
decision to replace it with a more reliable part, this should be considered
good thing.  If anything, a car with the under rated Ducey should loose
because that is the car that will be stuck on the side of the road at some
so hundreds of people driving by can see a broken down DeLorean.


Message: 18
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:09:56 EST
Subject: RE: DML-Running rich

 (This has been submitted by David, just in a round about way. He's presently 
having some difficulties with his computer)

  To run rich enough that the catalytic converter glows red means
 that you are running way too rich. Among the causes are the following:
 a way too rich adjustment of the mixture screw
 a misfiring cylinder(bad wire, plug, etc)
 timming way off (not a couple of degrees)
 a leaking (stuck open) freq valve
 a leaking or stuck open cold start valve (check the plug on the
 start valve to see if you mixed it up with any other)
 a malfunctioning cold start system (always on)
 You need to find out how you are dumping all of that fuel into the
 exhaust. Maybe a burnt exhaust valve? See if all of the cylinders
 have compression. Not likely if you say the engine runs good. You
 should hear a loud buzzing coming from the right side valve cover
 like an angry cricket. If you don't then check the lamda system and
 the frequency valve.Generaly it will fail shut, maybe it is stuck
 open. Do not operate the car for an extended time until you can keep
 the catalytic converter from glowing. Don't replace the oxygen
 just yet. To remove it you may have to try the old "smoke wrench"
 acetylene torch to heat it up to loosen it. While you are at it
 remove and replace the test port plugs on the exhaust pipes, there
 two. When you replace these and the o2 sensor use some high temp
 anti-lock compound just don't get it on the sensor probe and always
 use "SENSOR SAFE" silicone compound on the engine or you will
 continually contaminate the O2 sensor. Make sure the micro switches
 the throttle spool are all working both in the idle position and at
 Wide Open Throttle (WOT). At WOT the lambda system goes full on and
 at idle the idle motor is on. (Long post but a lot of things to

     David Teitelbaum
     vin 10757

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 19
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:34:43 -0600
From: Beer Here <>
Subject: D Owner's list : D spotted

I recall a list that existed, about a year ago, with DMC-12 owners 
listed. Is this still in existance? I am looking for contact information 
for an owner who is in the Naperville, IL area... spotted last night on 
Eola Ave.



Message: 20
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:54:18 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <>
Subject: Re: water pump dead?

If your water pump died, you would know. You would hear a loud sound 
coming from the pump as the engine ran and/or leaks from it. 

One quick check before you do any of the things I describe, take out 
your oil dipstick and check to see if you have any coolant in your 
oil, if you do than you have a big problem. It could be your head 
gasket or the seals under the Piston Liners. This would cause any 
loss of pressure in the cooling system. If not then wipe your 
forehead and say "Whew!" and continue on:
What I would do is bleed the entire system to be sure that there is 
no air in it. 

Another that would cause it would be if the cap on the water bottle 
is not keeping the presure in, then that can be the source of the 
problem. The system is a pressurized system and needs pressure to 
operate properly. I have a Jeep cherokee that has the same type 
cooling system as the Delorean. I was having problems with it 
overheating all the time and it turned out that the rubber seal on 
the water bottle cap rotted out letting all of the pressure out of 
the system, that's why you get that "sssssss" sound when you removed 
the cap. I think this is the source of your problem here since you 
said that you don't get that anymore, check your Cap and make sure 
all of the seals are good. If you want to, buy a new cap and replace 
it (does no harm and not that expensive)and see fi the problem goes 
away. If you were losing pressure from anywhere else in the system 
you would see coolant leaks (ex. the weep hole on the water pump, bad 
hose, etc.) I've also expierinced (on another Jeep) the threaded 
portion of the water bottle (where the cap goes on) was warped. That 
caused a loss of pressure since the cap could not make a seal. 

If that does not help then remove the thermostat and run the engine. 
If the engine stays cool after you do that, then get a new thremostat 
and replace it. Most likely the old one is stuck closed and is not 
opening when the engine reaches it's normal operating temp. Don't 
drive around without the thermostat otherwise it will keep the engine 
to cool (not reaching normal operating temp) and you won't have heat, 
at least not hot enough for heat. 

The only way your water pump would be dead is if the impeller broke 
off and like I said, you would hear it if it did. If you need 
specific instructions on bleeding out the cooling system or any help, 
email me and I will send them to you, otherwise follow the procedure 
in the shop manual and you should be fine. Please let me know if any 
of this helped.


--- In, Delorean17_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hello,
>     My car gets hot really fast now.  If I start it up for a minute 
or two, 
> the gage is near 225 so I have to turn it off.  I have the cooling 
fans set 
> to run at all times and I also have an overheat protector from DMC 
Joe on it.
>     I used to get a ssssss noise when I removed the overflow cap 
but I no 
> longer do.(when it stayed cool)  someone mentioned the water pump.  
how can I 
> test it to see if it is working correctly?  the system is full of 
coolant and 
> I have about an 1-1/2 inches in the overflow bottle.  I checked 
> out and I dont see any leaks.  any ideas on what this could be 
would be 
> greatly appreciated.
> Thanks
> David


Message: 21
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:56:16 -0000
From: "Erik Geerdink" <>
Subject: Chris Coplen!!!!????

Hi, I'm looking for Chris Coplen.  If you are out there, send me a 
message.  I lost your e-mail address.  Thanks!

Erik Geerdink


Message: 22
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:14:09 -0000
From: " " <>
Subject: Re:1982 DMC is concours?

I feel I must add my opinion having participated and won in 2 coucours 
events recently. To Mark if you don't like the rules change them. When 
and if you enter you agree to go by the rules and the judging manual 
was very complete. Judges always hold back something to help 
diferentiate between close cars. If all of the members are in 
disagreement with a particular item then this is the perfect forum to 
discuss and maybe change it.If everyone defaults and lets James and 
Steve set he rules then don't complain. Certainly don't complain if 
you don't even compete. I don't agree with all of the rules either but 
I accepted them as they were to enter the concours. With input and 
further refinement they can be even better but the judging manual as 
it is was a momunental job to create,(the factory never envisioned 
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


Message: 23
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:04:44 -0000
From: " " <>
Subject: Re: Inertia Switch Impact force

A clarifacation on the inertia switch. It's purpose is in the event of 
an impact it opens the ground circuit to the fuel pump. The car does 
not have to roll over to activate it. The inertia switch has a second 
function, it will unlock the doors if the door lock circuit is working 
and correctly hooked up. In the event of a rollover there is a valve 
in the filler neck to the fuel tank to keep the fuel from comming out. 
 There was a recall because the origional design was too sensitive and 
would shut the car down without an accident. All fuel injected cars 
are now required to have an inertia switch in the event of an 
accident. They are also required to have a circuit that will shut the 
fuel pump off if the motor is not running hence the need for the RPM 
relay.Many cars have been rewired incorrectly because people don't 
understand the need for these safety items but in an accident you 
don't need fuel dumped all over and create a more dangerous situation.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


Message: 24
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:53:54 -0000
From: " " <>
Subject: Re: Running rich

Make sure that the blue plug goes to the cold start valve and the tan 
plug goes to the control pressure regulater!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 I think my computer is working now???


Message: 25
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:51:37 -0500
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: Re: Inertia Switch Impact force


I think you are wrong about the inertia switch activating when it is
inverted.  It is called an inertia switch because it works on inertia, i.e.
activated by a sudden shock.

Comments anyone?

Walt    Tampa, FL