Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 8:32 PM
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 304

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Sagging headliner
From: Stephen Jarvis <>

2. Re: Delorean Mention in movie

3. Re: Re: vents only- no heater, defroster
From: "DMC Joe" <>

4. variety car shows

5. Re: Storage

6. Re: Aftermarket rims (was Re: Colors update)
From: "Danrc30" <>

7. Re: DMC model on
From: "Jake" <>

8. Re:Storage

9. Storage, changing fluids, etc.
From: "Lynn Metz" <>

10. Re: Rough Idle
From: "Walter" <>

11. Re: Rough Idle
From: "DMC Joe" <>

12. Re: variety car shows
From: Marc A Levy <>

13. Re: storage for long times

14. original Radio bracket

15. Re: Storage (plus fuel accumulator question)
From: Mike Substelny <>

16. Variety Car Shows
From: "Murray Fisher" <>

17. Re: vents only- no heater, defroster
From: "Steve Rubano" <>

18. Website Chat page update
From: "Steve Rubano" <>

19. Question on A/C system
From: "Steve Rubano" <>

20. Re: Re: Aftermarket rims (was Re: Colors update)
From: "Walter" <>

21. Gas Flap Hood
From: "Steve Rubano" <>

22. Crass Commercialism
From: Henry Breer <>

23. delorean car chase
From: efren hicks <>

24. DeLorean Shocks and Storage

25. Re: Re:storage was oil filers
From: "Chris Parnham" <>

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 00:16:54 -0500
From: Stephen Jarvis <>
Subject: Sagging headliner

I can't stand it anymore!! My driver's side headliner decided to sag and is
now brushing the top of my head. I would like to fix both sides at the same
time, because I'm sure the passenger's side is right behind.

I tried to reglue the driver's side, but the foam is desintegrating and
won't allow the cloth to stay in place. Too frustrating for me at this
point. My next move would be to remove all foam from the fiber headliner
piece and replace the material with new.

I would prefer to send the panels to an upholsterer who has done an
excellent job for someone on the list. Does someone (anyone??) have a good
experience with a specific upholsterer or know the appropriate material with
a foam backing to give one of my local guys to use?? With the right material
I may even try it myself again.

Steve Jarvis
Columbia, South Carolina


Message: 2
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 00:44:02 EST
Subject: Re: Delorean Mention in movie

Interesting...I just saw Charlie's Angels the other night and I didn't
catch that line.  



Message: 3
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 16:10:05 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: Re: vents only- no heater, defroster


This statement is incorrect. The hot water valve is normally open, the valve
closes when vacuum is applied via the AC mode switch "Max" position.

"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <>
Web Site: <>

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Rubano <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 2:23 AM
Subject: [DML] Re: vents only- no heater, defroster

"If there is no vacum to it, it's likely not opening up and alowing the hot
antifreeze to go to your heater core to give you heat."



Message: 4
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:48:45 EST
Subject: variety car shows

hello all,

i'm wondering if anyone could give me any feedback on entering their delorean 
in a car show.  you know, the kind that has muscle cars, rare cars, sports 
cars, etc.  not a strictly delorean show, i mean a grab bag car show.  

i would really like to look into entering my 82 D in the two car shows that 
are held every year here in Fargo, ND.  i have yet to see a delorean at 
either one.  

can anyone tell me what the usual cost is to get in on something like this, 
what is expected of you, and really just anything anyone knows about them.

i'd also love to hear about anyone out there winning some awards with their D 
at a non-offical "delorean show".  



Message: 5
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:57:40 EST
Subject: Re: Storage

I think that it can safely be said for all of us that have posted on this 
subject that we agree that moisture is bad, regardless of if it is inside the 
engine, the fuel or the brake system. Or anyplace else for that matter!
If we differ, it is not to any extent that will cause catastrophic problems 
if we do it one way or another. 

I got a chuckle out of Steve Rubano's very good an detailed instructions on 
cylinder wall protection, using Marvel Mystery oil, etc. 
For the uninitiated, Marvel Mystery Oil has been around for many years and 
has polarized just about everybody into two categories; those who swear by it 
and those that think it is "snake oil"! Most, if not all, engine manufacurers 
prohibit its use in their engines (typical for warranty purposes), extensive 
tests has been performed by reputable independent testing outfits who in 
essence claim that there is nothing mystic, new or exotic in its composition 
but most of a couple of generations of mechanics and other engine experts 
swear by it.  I am a convert after personally having experienced a couple of 
remarkable improvements following its use!

Anybody that has taken apart a carelessly maintained engine and seen all the 
gunk in the oil pan, valve train, etc. versus an engine that has received 
recommended (or better) oil change procedures will certainly agree that there 
is a significant difference! 

My first posting here referred to problems that I had with my late 70's Volvo 
with the B28F engine. The owners manual recommended oil changes at 5000 mile 
intervals. The US Volvo experts stated in no uncertain terms that under no 
circumstances should the oil and filter be changed at less then 3000 miles! 
Granted, there was a design problem (oil galleys and oil pump capacity) that 
was fixed prior to the D engines, but the fact remains that the engines last 
much longer if the oil was changed more frequently. (I talked to my present 
Volvo mechanic last week and he confirmed that that engine became almost 
bulletproof after the 1980 design change.)

One caveat on "occational running while in storage": Make sure you run the 
engine until the oil temperature is hot! This will boil off any moisture that 
has been suspended in the oil and vent it out through the PCV system. (I 
know, no oil temp gauge in the D, just run it until coolant temp is normal 
and then a bit longer.) Just running the engine for a couple of minutes will 
not do it. 

I do use a fuel stabilizer in a full tank of gas for storage (pour it in 
while you fill up the tank before storage), but I have never drained/refilled 
the tank after storage and never noticed any problems with using the 
"stabilized"  tank in a car, airplane or lawnmover engine. (Maybe I should 
read the instructions!)
In summary: Keep moisture out and change oil more often than not.
Roger Brogren
VIN 1074

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 6
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:55:58 -0500
From: "Danrc30" <>
Subject: Re: Aftermarket rims (was Re: Colors update)

I wholeheartedly disagree with Walt here. I have aftermarket rims on my car, 16"/17" combo, and I couldn't be happier with the performance. Both are 7" wide, but I have a fatter rear tire on than the front. The handling is way more responsive and the car grips the road well when the Pirelli's warm up. It's true that the front wheels do rub the swaybar, but only a little bit since the wheels are 2" bigger in diameter. The larger size brings it further away from the swaybar, but not quite enough. I wasn't able to find any wheels in a 6" width that would match the rear, and look good. It's a difficult match when factoring in the offsets too. But I am way happier with the wheels I have now than the factory ones. Spacers were used, and the rear are perfectly hubcentric. Walt is correct there. They should be hubcentric right from the start. But, my front wheels aren't. This isn't a big deal due to the very light front end of the DeLorean. The lugholes in the wheels are beveled to ma!
tch the lugnuts, so the front wheels center nicely when tightened while the car is elevated. I have absolutely no vibrations in the car anywhere.

 I think PJ Grady has some aftermarket wheels styles available as a custom order. If interested, you might want to call them.


From: "Walter" <>
Subject: Aftermarket rims (was Re: Colors update)

Jim K,

I'm definitely not a purist, so I'll be glad to see pictures and read
descriptions about what you are doing.  Let me warn you from my experience
about aftermarket rims.  The biggest mistake I made when buying my rims was
getting 7" wide front rims in place of the OEM 6" rims.  This extra inch of
width sticks further into the wheel well and interferes with steering.  Even
on original Deloreans, the OEM wheels may touch the sway bar.  But add an
extra inch to the inside of each tire, and you REALLY hit the sway bar.  And
with these new rims, it is the metal part that hits the sway bar and not the
rubber part.  This is not good.  I went with 16" front rims and 17" rear
rims.  They are TSW brand in the Imola style.  They look fantastic, but I've
had all kinds of trouble making them fit right.  First of all, if your
application needs custom spacers, make sure they are made 'hub-centric' and
not 'lug-centric'.  Hub-centric means that a round hollow area inside the
rims fits snugly on the brake rotor hub.  Lug-centric means that the hub is
not used and you are at the mercy of hoping that the lug-nuts alone will
center the rim on the hub -- bad idea.

Also, make sure that the rims you get are properly drilled to match the
Delorean lug pattern.  My front rims were not available in the proper lug
dimensions, so the dealer had a machine shop re-drill them.  That really
screwed them up since they drilled the new holes in the wrong place.  Now
they are going to try to re-drill the holes again, but I think that is a
lost cause.  Hopefully they will have to replace the front rims.

In order to fix the rims hitting the swaybar, I'm in the process of
designing a new heavy-duty sway bar that will have a different shape to
allow more room for the wheels to steer.  You can save yourself a lot of
trouble by making sure that whatever rims you get are 6" in the front and
come factory drilled for the Delorean lug pattern.

Sorry to get on a soap box here, but I just don't want to see someone else
make the same mistake that I did.

Walt    Tampa, FL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 7
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 22:04:42 -0600
From: "Jake" <>
Subject: Re: DMC model on


I would be interesting in some pictures, if you don't mind.  Thanks in

Jake from the DML

<<If interested I will try to post some pics.
> Gary Gore
> Activities Director
> DeLorean Mid Atlantic
> VIN 3360


Message: 8
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 04:45:40 EST
Subject: Re:Storage

No nerves stricken here either, so here is my 2 cents worth:
I will limit myself to my opinion about storage since several others have 
already posted answers to most of your other questions!

2-3 weeks in the summer is not storage.
4-6 months, up to a year, is plain Storage
A year or more is Long Term Storage

No car will detoriorate if it sits for a month, given reasonable prior care 
and protection from the elements.

A car can be stored for 4-6 months without doing anything to it more than 
keeping it in a garage, but some detoriation will take place, hence the 
discussions here. 
Some things will be obvious, like for example a dead battery. Some things 
will be less immediately obvious, like corrosion, etc. Continued neglect (or 
wrong storage procedures) will inevitably lead to  progressively more costly 
maintenence and repairs.

A car that sits in long term storage will definitely detotiorate and need 
work to be restored to reliable performance if it is not prepared. 

When is enough enough? Probably depends on the owners pocketbook, both for 
cost of preparation and the decreased value to the next owner.

Look at it this way: As an owner there will be maintenance cost wether you 
use the car or not. It is a question of paying some now or more later! 

To let a "stored"car sit with an idling motor for 1/2 hour in any type of 
weather is in my experience and opinion doing much more harm then good! 
In -20 degree weather?  I look forward to some other opinions!

Roger Brogren 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 9
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 04:17:43 PST
From: "Lynn Metz" <>
Subject: Storage, changing fluids, etc.


I was just wondering why the owners manual suggests changing the brake fluid 
so often and why so many list members emphasize this as well?  Is this just 
being extra careful or is it really needed.  For example, my daily driver, 
Firebird, has over 130,000 miles (12 years old)- brake fluid never changed - 
never any problems.  Now, I drained and replaced brake fluid this summer on 
the DeLorean and now, about 300 miles later, the master is going out.  I 
assume the new fluid was too much for the old rubber in the master.  (Or it 
could be a coincidence)
Brian 16584
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at


Message: 10
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 07:26:54 -0500
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: Re: Rough Idle


I think that seeing the oil pressure light after the engine is started is
bad news.  I had a GM car
do that.  At idle, the low oil pressure light would flicker on just a little
bit.  The idle was a bit rough, but it otherwise ran fine.  After about 50
miles of driving like this, the engine seized up.  It turns out that the oil
screen was gunked up.  The reduced oil circulation ruined the engine.

I would make sure that you have a reliably functioning oil pressure sending
unit (the one that runs the gauge, not the idiot light).  Then make sure
that the low oil pressure is only a symptom of a problem and not the cause.
If for some reason your oil isn't properly circulating but it has enough
pressure to turn the idiot light off, then you are at the mercy of the gauge
to tell you what is going on.  Since OEM oil pressure sending units are
known for giving pressure readings much higher than actual, this could hide
a more serious problem.

On a friend's D, I replaced the low oil pressure switch, and the wire going
to it was baked from engine heat.  I replaced it with high temperature oven
wire.  Now it won't fail again for that reason.  If the low oil light is
still blinking on when the gauge is giving a high reading, then you may just
have a burnt and shorted wire.

The OEM gas sending units are notorously flakely.  Until I got a Tankzilla,
I mostly relied on the trip odometer to judge how full my tank was.

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 11
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 01:48:25 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: Rough Idle


It is normal for the idle to vary while the engine is in the warm-up cycle.
If the idle does not settle down ten minutes after a cold start your CO mix
adjustment is out of spec. A problem in the fuel enrichment circuit can also
cause this condition.

It is normal for the oil pressure gauge to rise and fall with the idle

Whenever you start the car the fuel level reading will be lower than the
previous start depending how much fuel you used during that period. If the
level rises between trips than the Tankzilla should correct the problem.

PS: for myself and the other list members who submit advice, please be more
definitive with your descriptions. Is the idle "rough" or does it "vary"? Do
you have a problem with the oil "light" or "gauge"? Accurate descriptions
allows us to give you more accurate information which saves time, not only
for you, but for us as well. Thanks for your cooperation.

"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <>
Web Site: <>

----- Original Message -----
From: W.D.SEARLS, JR. <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 8:47 PM
Subject: [DML] Rough Idle

> I have been trying to troubleshoot my Delorean here lately and have a bit
> a problem. The car has a very rough idle. It starts up goes from 750 rpm
> about 1800 rpm then back down to around 900rpm then back up and so on. Any
> ideas of what it may be? Also my oil psi light goes up and down in the
> process of the rough idle. Then my gas tank reading is different every
> I start the car. Would tankzilla clear this problem up? Thanks in advance.
> Joel
> #3121


Message: 12
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:43:13 -0500
From: Marc A Levy <>
Subject: Re: variety car shows wrote:
> can anyone tell me what the usual cost is to get in on something like this,
> what is expected of you, and really just anything anyone knows about them.

It depends on the show.  Just clean the car up and go.  Some shows require a
fire extinguisher in the car (which is a good idea to have anyway).

I find most shows around New Jersey are under $15 to register.  Usually a
discount if you pre-register.

> i'd also love to hear about anyone out there winning some awards with their D
> at a non-offical "delorean show".

I have had a good mix of "winning" experiences with my DeLorean.  I find I do
better at shows where the awards are based on People's Choice.  Although I have
won awards at "professional judged" shows as well.  Then there are the times
that you get a slap in the face and a 1984 Camaro painted in rustolium black
beats out 3 well maintained DeLoreans! (Right Dan and Gary?)

Even the shows where I go home empty handed, I still have a good time.  I like
meeting people and talking about the car.  Showing your car is the best way to
educate other auto enthusiast about the car, and increase the interest (value)
in the car.

Most of the "shows" I go to are more of local cruise nights.  Even without
awards they can be fun events.  I do find that many of the event coordinators
think the DeLorean is too new to participate so you are pushed off to the side,
but it is always fun to see their faces when you have the largest crowd around
your car!

Since you asked about personal experiences:

I think it was 1999, Laura (my girlfriend) told me about a show in one of the
local shore towns.  The weather was nice, so what the heck!  I did not even do a
good job of prepping the car.  We arrived a bit late and got a terrible spot on
one of the side streets where we did not get a lot of attention.  Later in the
afternoon as some of the other cars were leaving, I move the DeLorean on to the
main street.  About a hour later someone walks up to me... "Is this your car?"
Common question at a car show, but he was standing with a photographer.  To my
surprise, I won 2nd place.  With the number of cars, and the quality of cars
that were at this show I was flattered to win 2nd place.

On the other hand...

My local town was having a indoor car show.  I could not find any details about
the show (time, cost, judging) so I just showed up on the morning of the show. 
Sure enough, I was late.  When the guy at the entrance to the building saw the
DeLorean, he made room for me.  As local shows go, there was a poor selection of
cars.  The quality of the cars were not impressive at all. The only thing that
was somewhat interesting was a poor quality Tucker REPRODUCTION.  I figured they
might as well give me the trophy now.  Throughout the day I noticed how little
attention I was getting.  Even the terrible Elvis impersonator ignored me! 
Towards the end of the show, I started talking to someone who had a Grand
National (another car on my want list) and found out that the show was focused
on their specific club.  When award time came, a bunch of lame cars won (all
owned by club board members) and first prize went to the Tucker... On my way out
I noticed that the event was sponsored (financially) by the guy who owned the
Tucker!  What a surprise.

So anyway, if you do show your car the experience will always be unpredictable.


Message: 13
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:50:35 EST
Subject: Re: storage for long times

CarCoon is the answer.  I kept one of my Ferraris, top down in one, for years 
with no interior dust at AT ALL.

Fred Klorczyk


Message: 14
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:15:46 EST
Subject: original Radio bracket

    when I bought my car it did not have a radio but it previously had a Cd 
player in it so the radio bracket was cut so a CD player could fit.(owner 
took CD player when he sold car)  I purchased a Craig radio and would like to 
put that back in the car.  I am looking for an original uncut radio bracket 
in very good condition.  I will trade my custom radio bracket for an original 
one if you would like or I will just buy it.  its in good shape and was 
nicely cut.  new dimensions are 7-1/4in X 2-1/8in  please email me privately.

Thank You


Message: 15
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:30:48 -0500
From: Mike Substelny <>
Subject: Re: Storage (plus fuel accumulator question)

David Swingle wrote:

> Raising the car on jackstands:
> PRO - better for the tires, and possibly the shocks (less pressure being
> held, these are gas shocks) but see comment on shock bushings.
> CON - You have the suspension bushings in a "twist" mode for a long time. If
> the suspension was assembled properly, the bushings are set for "no twist"
> with the car on the ground. Also take a look at the upper bushing on the
> shock absorbers with car jacked up sometime.

Flat spots on good, expensive tires are a worry.  For those with the luxury of
two sets of rims, the best plan might be to store their DeLorean on an old set
of tires, and put the good ones back on in the spring.

Personally, I do not mind leaving the car's weight on the shock absorbers and
springs, since millions of cars that are not put away for the winter seem to
fare just fine.  Besides, the weight of an empty DeLorean is a much lighter load
than a DeLorean with two passengers hitting a bump in the road.

> PRO - Gets the fluids circulated
> CON - Never runs the engine under load, parts such as the transmission will
> never reach operating temp without driving the car. Running it in place at
> idle 10 minutes once a month is probably worse than not running it at all.
> You'll end up with a muffler full of water, among other things.

I have heard that periodic starting is a good idea, made even better if you
crank the engine for a few minutes before starting.  The theory is that the low
RPM cranking prior to starting circulates some oil onto otherwise dry engine
parts without the furious load of a running engine.  In stock DeLoreans this is
easy to do, thanks to the inertia switch.

If this is true, it seems I would prefer to store my DeLorean with the fuel
accumulator depressurized.  The simple solution is to shut the car off using the
inertia switch instead of the key.  In theory that would leave the spring in the
accumulator uncompressed all winter, and the fuel system depressurized.

Is this a good idea?

Would this extend the life of the accumulator as well as make it easier to
circulate oil in a dry engine, or might it be harmful to the accumulator,
engine, or both?

> Hers's one no one says much about. The absolute best thing to do with the
> DeLorean in this area would be to store the car with the doors OPEN. This
> releases most of the tension from the torsion bar, releases the tension from
> the door struts, and releases the tension from the door seals.  Of course NO
> ONE does this,

Actually, I did do it last winter.  Starting with roughly equal doors, I left my
driver's door open and my passenger door closed all winter.  By spring, my
passenger's door was a slightly but noticeably slower to open than my driver's

However, my next door neighbor teased me so much about the risk of
squirrels/skunks/water buffalo spending their winter in my DeLorean that I
probably will not repeat the experiment.

- Mike Substelny
DeLorean garaged but not yet in storage, Sta-Bil purchased, but still hoping for
one more nice day on the North Coast.


Message: 16
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 07:46:33 -0800
From: "Murray Fisher" <>
Subject: Variety Car Shows

My car shows experience might not be typical.  I live a long ways from any major city and it is not possible for us to even consider DeLorean ONLY shows.   I have had my car 3 1/2 years and the first year went to a car show I always attend, about 30 miles from home.  I always park near the entrance and did so this time as usual....the people running the show came out in a hurry and told me to go on inside.  I declined at first as I had no intention of entering the show.  The car was not freshly washed and a few bugs on the front from the drive.  They said they wanted the car inside and would not charge me anything....we finally decided to move it to the show area....there were around 350 cars of every description.   I relented and paid the $10 entrance fee anyway.   I knew nothing about car judging but they figured I should  enter the Unrestored Original category.  I found later that there were 82 cars entered in this class.   I left early, but after the judging.  Two weeks la!
ter someone called me to congratulate me on winning the first place trophy!!  (it was in the local paper)  What a nice surprise.  I DO always try to keep the car immaculate but it is a daily driver.   I enjoy the "notoriety" so use it to go get a loaf of bread or a quart of milk instead of using any of my other cars.  It had 3K miles on it when I got it and up to 8k now and still looks and smells new.  I have NEVER washed it!   I like that statement.   My grandson always washes it for me and is extremely careful in doing so and does a perfect job....not a spec of dirt between the spokes and washes under the wheel wells and I even caught him washing the INSIDE of the exhaust extensions!   

Since that time I have entered a very few shows each year and have won some first places but I think they are getting a bit blase' about the DeLorean now and the novelty is wearing off....I got third place last year!!  Anyway, the MOST fun about it is sitting in our lawn chairs nearby and fielding questions and listening to comments.  I have made up a 
"sandwich board" with all kinds of interesting photos and facts for people to see.  FWIW Dept.

Murray Fisher
Vin: 05962 Lic DMC-XII

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 17
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:21:32 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <>
Subject: Re: vents only- no heater, defroster

oops sorry guys, Joe is right, that condition would be "Heat always 
on" got it confused. My mistake, Thanks Joe. 

--- In, "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Steve,
> This statement is incorrect. The hot water valve is normally open, 
the valve
> closes when vacuum is applied via the AC mode switch "Max" position.
> "We're here to help you"
> DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_a...>
> Web Site: <>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Rubano <srubano_at_dml_o...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 2:23 AM
> Subject: [DML] Re: vents only- no heater, defroster
> "If there is no vacum to it, it's likely not opening up and alowing 
the hot
> antifreeze to go to your heater core to give you heat."
> Steve
> >
> >


Message: 18
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:04:53 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <>
Subject: Website Chat page update

I just wanted to tell everyone here that it looks like my chat page 
( is a big success so far. 
Since I opened it I have had over 228 hits on that page alone. I hope 
everyone is using it and enjoying it, that's what it's there for. If 
anyone has any comments please fell free to privately email me at 
dmcman73[at] Thanks again!



Message: 19
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:47:16 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <>
Subject: Question on A/C system

Hi all, I was wondering if someone out there with A/C system 
knowledge can give me some advice. The A/C system on my car has 
been "dry" for some time now (don't know how long) where as all the 
freon was out. I am assuming there is a leak somewhere. There was no 
hint of pressure at all when I was taking it apart. Here are my 

1. What should I suspect/check on my system that would go bad from it 
being dry for some time now?

2. Is the new "legal" freon as cold as the old stuff? I have only 
dealt with the older stuff so I can't compare the two.

3. Can I check for leaks in the system without charging it with 
freon? I know that there are special UV Dyes out there you can inject 
into the system and use a black light to track the leak. Can I use 
this without charging the system or do I have to charge it so I can 
run the A/C to find the leak?

Any info would be appreciated, thanks.



Message: 20
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 12:50:18 -0500
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: Re: Re: Aftermarket rims (was Re: Colors update)


The reason for our disagreement concerning rims is due to how these rims fit
the car.  First of all, my rims are 2" bigger in diameter, but the inside of
the tires are also 2" bigger in diameter -- the outside of the tire is the
same diameter as the original wheels.  I think you meant to say the same
thing, but you said 'wheels are 2" bigger in diameter'.  That sort of
implies outer wheel diameter.  I'm sure you're talking about only the rims
being bigger?

The guy who sold me the rims was very particular about making sure that the
new wheels would not sick out any farther than OEM.  It is generally
considered bad practice to have wheels stick out farther than originally
designed because this puts more strain on the suspension.  Remember, Torque
equals Force times Lever-arm.  The longer the lever-arm  (the further the
wheels stick out) the more torque is placed on the suspension and the sooner
the parts involved may wear out.

When getting new rims, the offset is as important to consider as width since
offset determines how far apart the center of the treads are in relation to
each other.  In your case, it sounds like some (or possibly all) of that
extra inch of width on the front wheels is toward the outside of the car
where it won't interfere with steering.  But it may come at the expense of
more stress on the suspension and a little more tread surface slinging mud
on the outside of the fender.

Another factor with my situation is that my car has a front suspension
problem.  It appears that my right lower control arm got bent when a
previous owner did who-knows-what.  With no front wheels on the car, even
the right tie rod end hits the sway bar even though my alignment is pretty
close to being true.  I don't want to have the front re-aligned until I get
the new shocks and lower springs installed.  While I'm doing this, I'll
check my control arms for damage.  I thought before that my problem was in
the steering rack, but evidently not.  This may be part of my problem, but
not all of it because I've seen another Delorean with stock rims whose tires
hit the sway bar too.

But first, I need to replace a bad computer governor.  My car tends to start
out in second gear and often won't shift into 3rd.  It's strange why they
call it a computer when there is nothing digital inside.  I suppose it is an
analog computer?

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 21
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:55:42 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <>
Subject: Gas Flap Hood

I have a Gas Flap hood that has small holes in it. The previous owner 
of the hood drilled holes into it to put a hood scoop on it (I don't 
know why). Does anyone know of a GOOD stainless steel welder, in NY, 
that would be able to cover/weld these holes without warping the 
hood? If not I am up for any other recomendations (I don't want to 
paint it, I want to keep it SS). If I can not find a welder that can 
do the job or any other solution, I will be offering this hood up for 
sale. It is in excellent condition (no dents or dings) except for the 
holes. This hood would be perfect for a painted Delorean. You can, if 
any are interested, make me a reasonable offer or send me some ideas 
to cover the holes privatley to dmcman73[at]




Message: 22
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:53:32 -0800
From: Henry Breer <>
Subject: Crass Commercialism


Thought some of you might be interested

Hank Breer


Message: 23
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 12:39:20 -0800 (PST)
From: efren hicks <>
Subject: delorean car chase

dear list

ive seen tons of car chases here in los angeles but i
was wondering has any one here or some where in the
u.s. seen a delorean car chase? i would really like to
see one !


Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays!


Message: 24
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:10:51 -0000
Subject: DeLorean Shocks and Storage

Regarding the New DeLorean shocks that PJ Gradys sells. I drove Rob's 
car for about 50 miles coming back from the Cleveland show and I can 
say they are exceptional.

Regarding storage of a DeLorean ( at the Cleveland Tech session) 
Rob Grady specifically said that it was his opinion that it was
better to store the DeLorean with a quarter tank of fuel or less and 
with gas stabilizer then with a full tank of gas (and gas

Mike D.
Vin 3113


Message: 25
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:45:54 -0000
From: "Chris Parnham" <>
Subject: Re: Re:storage was oil filers

I have personal experience of getting 5 cars going again after long term
storage, ranging from 6 to 17 years. All had slight brake problems, and some
had small electrical problems, nothing major on any of them. They had all
been stored DRY, but not in the direct sun.
I have recently seen one that has been stored DAMP, for 8 years! It was a
very sad sight indeed.
 As has been mentioned previously, if you are going to start them up
regularly, you should take for a good long drive of say 25-40 miles to get
everything warm and free running, otherwise leave em in peace, sit in them
and do the trips in your mind (no drug thingy intended),  until you want to
get it back on the road again.........just my 2 pence.

Chris P DOC UK

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 11:33 PM
Subject: [DML] Re:storage was oil filers

> I have one more point to add on storage. I have seen many cars in
> "long term storage" that were origionly just to have been short term.
> Either the owner couldn't play with all his toys anymore or for
> whatever reason the car just never came out of storage. Perhaps he
> would start it once in a while and one day maybe the battery was dead
> or the gas just went stale. I have successfully unstored such cars but
> it takes alot more work and parts. When you put a car in storage you
> just never know when you will get back to it. The best route is to
> prepare it for long term storage in all cases but some people don't
> take any steps at all.Storage up to a year can get by without any
> steps if in a heated garage and at least take out the battery.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> --- In, "jtrealty_at_dml_w... " <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> > I see I struck a nerve. There are many different ways to store a car
> > and the opinions on what to do with the motor oil is a very
> > controverstial area. In my experiance it really doesn't matter as
> long
> > as you don't get flooded or are in too hot or too high a humidity. A
> > bigger problem is the fuel. Fuel doesn't store well in cars. It is
> > dangerous and unstable especialy the newer blends with the
> oxygenates
> > and additives. The most important thing you can do is drain ALL of
> the
> > fuel from the car in storage. Next it is best if the car is on
> > jackstands, not just for the tires but so the springs are less
> > stressed. The tires will be alright in a few miles as long as it's
> > only a couple of months. The battery should be removed and kept
> fully
> > charged. If the anti-freeze is old or acidic or weak it should be
> > changed before storage. If the brake fluid is over 2 years old it
> > should be flushed out with dot 4. The most important thing about
> > storage is the way you bring a car out of it. You should manualy
> turn
> > the engine over several times before trying to start it. You should
> > add fresh fuel and a fully charged battery. As soon as it is warmed
> up
> > change the oil and filter. This could get lengthy and I am sure
> there
> > are many with other ideas on how to store and unstore a car. In all
> of
> > the cars I have taken out of storage and in junkyards the smallest
> > problem was internal corrosion in the motor not counting the cooling
> > system.
> > David Teitelbaum
> > vin 10757  Yes my car is now in storage for the winter
> >
> >
> > --- In, "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_o...> wrote:
> > > I agree that with Dave in supporting our well deserved Delorean
> > parts
> > > vendors and purchasing parts through them. I don't agree with
> > storing
> > > any car without changing the oil
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