Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 2:11 AM
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 307

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There are 12 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Las Vegas (long)
From: Jack Janney <>

2. Re: Gas Flap Hood
From: "Walter" <>

3. Re: Re: Question on A/C system
From: "DMC Joe" <>

4. AZ DMC for sale
From: "mdrig" <>

5. Periodic winter startup
From: Watkins Family <>

6. Re: Who Wants a Backlit Dash? (Again)
From: "Mark Hershey" <>

7. SS Braided Brake Lines


9. Running rich
From: "chris" <>

10. Re: Re: Storage, changing fluids, etc.
From: "William F. Lane" <>

11. Re: Vegas Winery Drive & Lake Meade Cruise
From: "Ray Haug" <>

From: Trevor L Johnson <>

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:23:45 -0700
From: Jack Janney <>
Subject: Las Vegas (long)

I'm more of a lurker and relative newbie (I've had my DeLorean less than a month), but I haven't seen much posted about Las Vegas, so here goes.

First, a bit of an introduction.  I've always been kind of a motorhead, from the time I would sit out on the front porch when I was five years old and ask my dad the make and year of every single car that drove up and down the street.  In addition to motorcyles, my interest in cars runs both to the sixties big block muscle cars and to small two-seater sports cars.  I won't take up space to list them all here, but I've been lucky to have had the chance to own some pretty neat cars.  Lately, I've been down to a '94 Subaru SVX (I do live in Colorado and need something for the snow) and '91 Corvette ZR-1.  Until 4 months ago I also owned a 96 Buell S2-T.  I got a little carried away one day and ended up totaling the bike and putting myself into the hospital for a week.  My wife convinced me to cool it with the motorcycles for awhile.  So I went looking for something with four wheels that would be fun.  After recovering from sticker shock over current prices of 60s/70s muscle cars !
I browsed through a Hemmings cover to cover.  And what should jump out as an underpriced bargain, but a DeLorean.
I ended up locating a clean, 19,000 mile, 82 with 5 speed and gray interior in Orlando Fl.  I could tell from the appearance of the carpeted garage that the former owner, Ray Maciejewski treated his cars well.  I haven't put many miles on it yet, but the little driving I have done has convinced me I will be keeping it for quite a while.
I wanted to attend Las Vegas to learn more about DeLoreans and get to know some fellow owners.  I was made to feel welcome right away.  It was a great weekend packed full of fun activities.  I should thank Linda Porter, Dave Knudson, John & Joan Truscott, Hank & Mimi Breer and others (sorry, I can't remember everyone) for the hard work they put into organizing it.
It started with the social on Friday night where I got to talk to a couple that had flown out from the midwest.  They seemed to be typical of most DeLorean owners I talked to through the weekend, I felt like I'd known them for years right off the bat, knowledgeable about the car, and willing to explain things to a new owner.  Later on, I ended up talking to Hank Breer who invited me along to dinner with his family.  I rode along in his DeLorean so I didn't have to go the whole weekend without riding in one.  I didn't drive mine since I haven't had time to go over it for a 1,600 mile trip.
I lived in Las Vegas in the early to mid-eighties and worked for Lake Mead National Recreation Area so I had no interest in going on the boat ride on Friday.  I did however drive through the park and met a friend who keeps a boat at Boulder Beach Marina.  On the way, we stopped at the launch ramp and spied about 30 DeLoreans parked in a reserved area of the parking lot.  That was the first time I'd seen that many in one place, it was pretty exciting.  I heard that the boat ride was fun, they ran a movie on the building of Hoover Dam that you could watch or you could go up on top to view the scenery.  A bit of trivia: when they filled in the reservoir behind the dam, the water covered a town that used to be northeast of Las Vegas.
The facilities the events were held in were excellent and so was the food.  The prices for Fri and Sat banquets were higher than my usual Friday night hamburger at Red Robin, but the food was so good I didn't mind.
On Saturday morning, we left the Rio and drove west through Red Rock Canyon on our way to Pahrump.  Red Rock Canyon is a scenic 13 mile one-way loop that rises and drops through red rock sandstone formations.  When I lived in Las Vegas, I occasionally ran the loop.  Believe me, when you run or bicycle the loop, you remember every hill and curve, even 15 years later.
By the time I got to the winery, they were giving samples of the wine.  I got in on the tail end, but got to sample a couple of the reds anyway.  I was signed up for the tech session so I got to go in with the first (of 2) group for lunch.  I had expected a sandwich or something pretty basic but was surprised find a choice of beef burgundy or chicken with a white sauce.  As with the other meals this one was also excellent.  I heard alot of comments throughout the weekend, we all ate about twice as much as normal.
There were two tech sessions on Saturday afternoon, so another chance for me learn more of the ins and outs of making our cars dependable.  Many of the same vendors I see advertise or participate in this newsgroup and the DOA website were present and contributed to the weekend events.  I feel they've earned my business and will patronize them when I need parts or service.
The dinner on Saturday night was bittersweet for me.  I was having dinner with the friends I had made, but I knew we would all be going back home the next morning.  The DeLorean Owners Association gave away some great door prizes.  They have two events planned next year, the Eurofest in Belfast in May and a drive around Pennsylvania, I don't think they've selected a date next summer.
Overall, it was a fun, educational weekend.

Jack Janney

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 2
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 04:28:24 -0500
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: Re: Gas Flap Hood

Oh, another thought on fixing those holes... Since I'm in the restaurant
equipment repair business, I deal with getting stainless pots & pans & such
re-welded.  There are shops in most major cities that specialize in that
sort of thing.  This also includes fabrication of custom stainless steel
food preparation tables, shelves, etc.  If it were my hood, I would take it
to the guy I know in town.  He could do it very well since it is basically a
flat surface and not fixing a dent in a curved panel.

How the guy in town would do it is he would use either a MIG or TIG welder.
I really forget the difference between the two.  I know that MIG stands for
'metal inert gas'.  What they do is use a stainless steel wire fed from a
spool.  The wire chosen would be the same alloy as the hood.  The wire is
fed through an electric arc welding nozzle that also blows CO2 or some
similar inert gas.  Once enough metal is built up in the hole, then it is
carefully ground down to match the surface.  I think they use something like
an eraser template (another piece of metal with a larger hole in it) to
avoid marking the surrounding area.

It would probably help if the welder could get to both sides of the hood.
As I remember, the D hood has a plastic backing that covers most if not all
of the interior surface.  I'm curious if anyone has any advice on how to
remove or work around this plastic?  Anyone?

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 3
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:41:29 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: Re: Question on A/C system

> Before the compressor would only cycle on for about 4-5 seconds. Now
> it never cycles off because the pressures stay so low.

The compressor is supposed to cycle. The AC system used in the DeLorean is a
"Cycling Clutch Orifice Tube Type". If the system never cycles there is a
possibility that the system could freeze up.

"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <>
Web Site: <>

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Rooney <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 5:22 PM
Subject: [DML] Re: Question on A/C system

> Another item on your A/C system that will probably need to be
> replaced is the orifice tube. Our A/C sat dry for quite some time as
> well. It ended up that only 3 items on the whole system needed
> repairs: Compressor clutch, leak in ac line, & the orifice tube.
> After the clutch was replaced and the leak was sealed, the system ran
> at a very high pressure. Replaced the orifice tube (which totally
> clogged and very nasty looking), and the system ran perfectly fine!
> Before the compressor would only cycle on for about 4-5 seconds. Now
> it never cycles off because the pressures stay so low.
> -Robert
> vin 6585


Message: 4
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:12:03 -0500
From: "mdrig" <>
Subject: AZ DMC for sale

Hope this ad comes through the link, if not search for Delorean.
Not my car! I just found it searching the site.


Message: 5
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:32:04 -0500
From: Watkins Family <>
Subject: Periodic winter startup

<Don Ekhoff  wrote:
<Hope this experience is helpful.  I just cringe when I hear of people
<starting their cars every week as a way of keeping them preserved.


It sounds from your post that you are only opposed a start up without
reaching operating temp.  So can one assume that you are more in favor
of a periodic start-up *only* if the car reaches a good hot running
status?   A simple start up and run for a few minutes is certaintly not
a good idea, I think everyone would agree to that.  However, the
question for the 4-6 month storage crowd is:  Is starting the car and
letting it run for at least 1 full hour (or more) harmful or hurtful to
the car?   If the car runs long enough for the cooling fans to activate
then the system is doing the same thing when you drive it during the
summer.  Albiet the car's clutch,brake and transmission system are still
not being used.

Look forward to a response

Tom   #005732 MT


Message: 6
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:33:49 -0600
From: "Mark Hershey" <>
Subject: Re: Who Wants a Backlit Dash? (Again)

Jim, if the overlay is one of the conventional electrolumescent kind and
wouldn't require me to send the gauge cluster off for installation , count
me in. I've installed a few of those kind on other cars. Delicate, requires
careful removal of the gauge needles, but do-able.

Since your message suggested sending the cluster, is it not going to be a
conventional overlay?

\\ Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Reeve" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 4:40 PM
Subject: [DML] Who Wants a Backlit Dash? (Again)

> Ok, I really thought there would be more interest for this.  However, I
> have only gotten 2 or 3 responses from people interested in a backlit
> dash.  I need about 20 people to make this cost effective, So I am
> reposting my original message from last week just in case anyone
> interested missed it.  If I still dont get any responses, I guess I will
> simply not be able to do this.
> My message from last Thurs. night as follows...
>               I have recently been taking apart my instrument cluster to
> see the total
>               involvement in making a backlit dash. After finding it to
> be a bit more
>               involved than I hoped for, (and frying an IC on my tach.),
> I talked to a
>               person who has worked with this stuff before. It turns out
> that this
>               person could help me considerably, and end up with a final
> product
>               looking 99% stock. It will also be possible to have
> several different
>               speedometer faces. A stock 85, 140, or 170 will all be
> possible.
>               Metric faces would also be possible if requested. To stay
> similar with
>               the center console, all white lettering will be
> illuminated green, and
>               the orange, red, and blue will illuminate with their
> respective colors.
>               I am also considering illuminating the "DMC" logo on the
> left side. And
>               finally, the white needles will illuminate, in white.
>               Now here is where all of you come into play. I realize
> that some of you
>               have ordered the digital dash from Dakota Digital for
> about $800, and
>               this is a very similar situation. Due to the initial cost
> of making the
>               custom faces out of special plastic, I would need an
> initial order of 20
>               dashes to make this all possible. If I get 20 orders or
> more, the price
>               would be around $250 dollars. This would be a nice way to
> get the dash
>               to look more modern at a fraction of the cost of an all
> digital one, not
>               to mention your choice of a speedo face. There is one
> other catch, this
>               should be a 99% reversible mod, but you would need to send
> me your WHOLE
>               assembled binnacle to install it. Installation should take
> about 1-2
>               weeks. It would probably take a few months for
> development, so
>               unfortunately it may not be ready before winter storage
> season is over.
>               I ask that anyone who would be interested in this, to
> email me
>               directly. My email is ultra"at" Just remember,
> this is still
>               all preliminary, but if I get 20 interested people, there
> is a good
>               chance this will happen.
> --
> Jim Reeve <Ultra>
> '81 DeLorean-#6960
> AIM-Ultra2169
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:


Message: 7
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 16:21:59 EST
Subject: SS Braided Brake Lines

    I just wanted to let everyone know I just received another shipment of 
Stainless Steel Braided Brake Hoses that we have custom made for the 
Delorean. After taking care of back orders, I still have a few sets left, for 
anyone who is interested in undertaking a good winter project. You can check 
everything out at - - in the parts section. If you have 
any questions, please e-mail me direct.

   Thanks, Marty


Message: 8
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:49:44 EST
Subject: RIO 2000 CONVENTION

Just a note to let all know I have posted 4 pictures under RIO 2000 of the 
Las Vegas convention for DOA. It was a fun gathering, small in size, about 27 
cars and maybe 60 people. They had 2 from England and 2 from Ireland (without 
there cars) but supper people to talk with. Some info was given on Eurofest 
next year in Ireland, keep your eye out for more info on it, your last chance 
to get on the test track. Tech sessions were very informative. All in all I 
think we all had a good time and made some new friends. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 9
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 23:37:29 -0000
From: "chris" <>
Subject: Running rich

Hi group

My frequency valve is not buzzing, i have tested the pin 3 on the diagnostic plug and direct to the frequency valve using a frequency meter and a scope and there is no nice 'square' wave in fact there is very little. There is +12v though.
I was told solonoids are very reliable, but its possible in extreme hot and cold that it could cause them to stop working which could effect the ECU too. My car was left outside in NJ for around 8 years.

Also my cat was glowing red, could the frequency valve not working cause this?

Any ideas?


Vin 16327

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 10
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 19:05:30 -0500
From: "William F. Lane" <>
Subject: Re: Re: Storage, changing fluids, etc.

I have used Dot 5 since about 1982.  I have not had any problems!

Bill Lane
vin 3635

"" wrote:

> The reason for the change of the brake fluid is that the origional
> fill was girling dot 3. It was assumed that that would also be the
> replacment fluid. Brake fluid is hygroscopic ie: it absorbs moisture
> from the air. If you don't regularly drive the car and heat up the
> fluid to drive out the moisture it will corrode the aluminum cylinder
> bores. If you go to Castrol "GTLMA" you can probobly go alot longer
> than 2 years but it is cheap insurance.
>  The reason your master cylinder is failing is common. The flush
> washed out all of the crud that helped seal the corroded bore. It is
> very likely that you will wind up rebuilding all 4 calipers also. If
> you have a 5 speed don't forget the clutch fluid which is the same and
> subject to the same problems. Many people have gone to silicone or dot
> 5 but it isn't recommended for several reasons including, water won't
> mix with the silicone so if any is in the system it will eat up the
> cylinders.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> --- In, "Lynn Metz" <metzlynn_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> > Group:
> >
> > I was just wondering why the owners manual suggests changing the
> brake fluid
> > so often and why so many list members emphasize this as well?  Is
> this just
> > being extra careful or is it really needed.  For example, my daily
> driver,
> > Firebird, has over 130,000 miles (12 years old)- brake fluid never
> changed -
> > never any problems.  Now, I drained and replaced brake fluid this
> summer on
> > the DeLorean and now, about 300 miles later, the master is going
> out.  I
> > assume the new fluid was too much for the old rubber in the master.
>  (Or it
> > could be a coincidence)
> > Brian 16584
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 01:20:10 -0000
From: "Ray Haug" <>
Subject: Re: Vegas Winery Drive & Lake Meade Cruise

--- In, Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_l...> wrote:
> > DMLers about the winery drive, the Lake Mead cruise, and other 
> from the 2000 Expo?


Hopefully by the end of the long weekend, I will have an on-line 
report posted on the DOA website at:

Linda Porter and Marcie just returned from an adventurous week in PA. 
planning the DOA's 20th anniversary road rally, so I am still waiting 
for the official Las Vegas report from Linda. If any DML's have some 
neat photos that you like to share on the event, please e-mail them 
to me personally at:  rdh at

Vegas has sure changed since the last event.  The RIO is HUGE, Las 
Vegas is HUGE.  The larger hotels have everything - FINE SHOPPING, 
mile of shopping stores.  Marcie and I wore ourselves out in the 3 
days before the EXPO.  So much for Vegas.

With just over 150 in attendance at Expo 2000 and about 30 DeLoreans 
it was one of the smaller Expos in recent years, but it was an 
excellent event. We put on a lot of miles in the two driving events,  
The Lake Mead drive - cruise was ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS - it was our own 
private boat, the Captain took us very close to the Hoover Dam, even 
let some of us 'steer the ship', and we all made it safely to the 
dock. We were able to get most of the cars together near the landing 
and several photo shots were made as the Cruise Boat came in to the 

The winery drive on Saturday took forever to get outside the 
sprawling Las Vegas residential tracts, and was a long drive through 
Red Rock Canyon and on to Pahrumph. Winery visit was very enjoyable 
wine tasting, winery tour, and outstanding lunch. The scenery was not 
as nice as the last time we visited the winery, as housing tracts are 
being built right up to the parking lot and the wide open spaces 
around the winery are no more.

Tech Talks by Rob Grady and Ed Bernstein were outstanding and well 
attended by the DeLorean techies.

Saturday's banquet was outstanding with Great Buffet, very 
informative presentation on Eurofest 2001 by Robert Lamrock, 
Excellent DJ, and Great Raffle Prizes with the German DeLorean model 
that's been recently discussed on the DML as the top prize of the 

Visit the DOA web-site for more photos and details very soon.

Registration for Eurofest 2001 will be available on the DOA web-site 
beginning Jan 1, 2001.

Ray Haug, Internet Director
DeLorean Owners Association 


Message: 12
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 18:16:23 -0800
From: Trevor L Johnson <>
Subject: Re: RIO 2000 CONVENTION

There were over 120 people who registered for the weekends events.
Although not every one was present at once. The largest number of people
were present for the first night (Thursday, sponsored by Delorean motor
center), The final Banquet (Saturday, sponsored by Delorean One) had
approximately 105 people present. 
Trevor Johnson
#6974 and 4055
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