From: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 2:04 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 318

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There are 10 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Service Counter
From: "John Hervey" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>

2. Re: Service Counter
From: "Knut Grimsrud" <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_intel.com>

3. Re: Condensating Quarter-windows / Carwash
From: Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>

4. Re: Dielectric grease on fuses (was Fuse block (was Fuses))
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

5. Re: Condensating Quarter-windows / Carwash
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

6. Re: cabin lights
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

7. Re: Re: Dielectric grease on fuses (was Fuse block (was Fuses))
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

8. Re: fan fail+ door module
From: "John Hervey" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>

9. Update on Backlit gauge pics
From: Jim Reeve <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>

10. Re: cabin lights
From: "John Hervey" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 05:11:17 -0000
From: "John Hervey" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Service Counter

Group, 
I was repairing and re assembling a service counter for someone and 
thought I have never checked mine. My car 11004 has 49,343 miles and 
the service counter is at 70 even. I'm the second owner, 1st owner 
worked for Delta and didn't work on cars, car is all original. I was 
wondering if this is right then what's supposed to happen when. What 
is it for.
John Hervey




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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 08:13:25 -0800
From: "Knut Grimsrud" <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_intel.com>
Subject: Re: Service Counter

"John Hervey" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>  wrote:

> I was repairing and re assembling a service counter for someone
> and thought I have never checked mine. My car 11004 has 49,343
> miles and the service counter is at 70 even. I'm the second
> owner, 1st owner worked for Delta and didn't work on cars, car
> is all original. I was wondering if this is right then what's
> supposed to happen when. What is it for.

The service counter is intended to remind the owner at 30,000 miles
intervals to take the car in to have its lambda sensor replaced. The lambda
sensor has a finite life and is an integral component of the closed loop
fuel injection system. The service counter and lambda light can be thought
of as the major tuneup reminder.

The counter displays its value as a percentage. Your reading of 70
corresponds to 70% of 30,000 miles or 21,000 miles. Your service counter was
therefore reset 21,000 miles ago when your car had 28,000 miles on it. Your
car probably had its 30,000 mile tuneup when it had 28,000 miles on it and
the service center that did the tuneup appears to have correctly reset the
counter when they did so.

	Knut




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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 14:18:05 +0100
From: Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>
Subject: Re: Condensating Quarter-windows / Carwash

> > Is there anyway to keep the glass in the rear-quarter-panels
> > from collecting condensation?
> You mentioned RainEx on the outside of the windows, but as I
> understand your question it's about the *inside* of the windows.  

That's right, but as you know the inside of the Quarterpanels is 
actually on the OUTSIDE of the car...

> RainEx also has a product designed to prevent window fogging. 
> I know it works fairly well on the inside of windshields 

I have something similar in my car too, it works quite well,
except on the Tollbooth-windows (because of the felt they rub
against when rolling up and down I think)

> this might also be a solution for the inside of the rear quarter-windows.
> Living in (now very chilly) New England, my rear quarter windows fog up
> virtually every morning when I start the car.

The droplets are too big to really be fog, if it were just fog they
would disappear from the engine-heat, now the droplets eventuelly roll
down the windows because of the motion of the car...

> I have not yet tried the RainEx anti-fog product because it suggests an
> ambient temp of at least 45 degrees for application, and it hasn't been
> quite that warm around here for a while.  Has anyone tried this product?

I don't know if I can get it over heer, but the temp here is about 55 F,
so that wouldn't be a problem... I think the real problem is in the 
exposure of the glass to the outside world on both sides: my
rear-window never foggs up|: I've never had to use the Rear-defogger!
The windows in the door are so sensitive that I have to drive with
the windows open to have good visibility to the sides at some times...

It could also have to do with the exact compound of the glass,
or the coating used on it... Or maybe a previous owner has used
some sort of wax on the car...

Which brings me to this: would it be safe to run a "D" through a
roll-over-carwash (to get the wax off)???
Or would the pressure from the spinning bristles and the force
from the blowdryer damage the louvers?

Thanks in advance,

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

check out the Delorean-Files at:
http://www.deloreanfiles.nl/
------------------------------



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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 06:52:12 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Re: Dielectric grease on fuses (was Fuse block (was Fuses))

Dielectric grease is used in high vlotage areas such as the ignition 
on a car. The grease is applied to the inside of the boots (plug 
wires) before attaching them to the plugs. 

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Jim,
> 
> SNIP <  This grease (if it's the stuff I'm thinking of) is generally
> used in low current applications where there is no heat generated 
to burn
> it.
> 
> Walt    Tampa, FL
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Reeve <ultra_at_dml_i...>
> 
> >What about a VERY small dab of
> >Dielectric grease on both pins for the fuse?




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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 17:54:48 -0000
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Condensating Quarter-windows / Carwash

This is a long shot but the condensation problem could be caused by a 
cooling system leak and then the steam would condense on the windows. 
The best way to test this theory is to pressure test the cooling
system and see if there are any leaks or the level drops or the 
pressure drops. I have seen leaks that were VERY small and as the 
anti-freeze escaped it turned into steam, you didn't even see
moisture 
just a near invisible haze but if you put your finger by the leak it 
would burn it. Under the reduced presssure as the coolant escapes it 
flashes into invisible steam. If you haven't done a cooling system 
service in many years perhaps it is time to replace all of the hoses 
and maybe the condensation will go away.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_v...> wrote:
> > > Is there anyway to keep the glass in the rear-quarter-panels
> > > from collecting condensation?
> > You mentioned RainEx on the outside of the windows, but as I
> > understand your question it's about the *inside* of the windows.  
> 
> That's right, but as you know the inside of the Quarterpanels is 
> actually on the OUTSIDE of the car...
> 
> > RainEx also has a product designed to prevent window fogging. 
> > I know it works fairly well on the inside of windshields 
> 
> I have something similar in my car too, it works quite well,
> except on the Tollbooth-windows (because of the felt they rub
> against when rolling up and down I think)
> 
> > this might also be a solution for the inside of the rear 
quarter-windows.
> > Living in (now very chilly) New England, my rear quarter windows 
fog up
> > virtually every morning when I start the car.
> 
> The droplets are too big to really be fog, if it were just fog they
> would disappear from the engine-heat, now the droplets eventuelly 
roll
> down the windows because of the motion of the car...
> 
> > I have not yet tried the RainEx anti-fog product because it 
suggests an
> > ambient temp of at least 45 degrees for application, and it
hasn't 
been
> > quite that warm around here for a while.  Has anyone tried this 
product?
> 
> I don't know if I can get it over heer, but the temp here is about 
55 F,
> so that wouldn't be a problem... I think the real problem is in the 
> exposure of the glass to the outside world on both sides: my
> rear-window never foggs up|: I've never had to use the 
Rear-defogger!
> The windows in the door are so sensitive that I have to drive with
> the windows open to have good visibility to the sides at some 
times...
> 
> It could also have to do with the exact compound of the glass,
> or the coating used on it... Or maybe a previous owner has used
> some sort of wax on the car...
> 
> Which brings me to this: would it be safe to run a "D" through a
> roll-over-carwash (to get the wax off)???
> Or would the pressure from the spinning bristles and the force
> from the blowdryer damage the louvers?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> JAN van de Wouw
> Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
> Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...
> 
> #05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000
> 
> check out the Delorean-Files at:
> http://www.deloreanfiles.nl/
> ------------------------------




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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 20:48:44 -0000
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: cabin lights

   I had the same problem, but only with my rear light. To crudely 
describe the fixture, there is a wheel attached to the rocker portion 
of the light. On either side of the wheel there are 2 flat 
connectors. When the switch is in the center position, it doesn't 
make contact with either connector. But as light is switched back or 
forward it hits a connector. What you may need to do is remove the 
unit up and 'gently' bend the connector back into place, and/or clean 
the connections with a pencil eraser.

   For you door lights it's the usual make sure that all of the 
connections are clean. My passenger lights were fine, but when my 
drivers side lights wouldn't turn on, I'd have to tap the switch. To 
fix this just take a small phillips head screwdriver and make sure 
that the screws on the switches have been tightend down (you'll see 
what I mean when you look _at_dml_ the switch from behind).

-Robert
vin 6585




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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 16:46:09 -0500
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Dielectric grease on fuses (was Fuse block (was Fuses))

I was thinking of the grease used on computer circuit board edge card
connectors.  It is slightly conductive to electricity.  That stuff is VERY
expensive and is not meant to take any amount of heat.

The thought crossed my mind that maybe Jim was referring to anti-oxidant
joint compound used on aluminum wiring.  Some electricians call this stuff
dialectric grease too.  This stuff may keep the contacts from corroding, but
otherwise I think it would make a royal mess.

The grease used on spark plugs is basically a high temperature insulating
silicone grease.  When that stuff is used inside of a spark plug boot, it is
pretty well sealed to the elements, so it won't pick up much dirt.  But used
in the open air such as on a fuse block, I bet it would pick up dust and get
messy.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 00:44:56 -0000
From: "John Hervey" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: fan fail+ door module

[MODERATOR'S NOTE: I suggest that further discussion on I^2R (I squared R) heating and fuse ratings be taken offline. Let's keep the list helpful and constructive.]

Yes, 
I respect everyones opinion, but it doesn't mean were always going to 
agree. Go out to your late model car and unplug the alternator and 
you will find in most cases electrical grease. High voltage,low 
voltage,high current,low current it's used everywhere and anywhere 
and I have never seen a car catch on fire from grease. But I have 
seen them catch on fire from using gasoline. 
I to think it's time to discuss electronics in the De Lorean. Lucas 
designed the wiring in the car that seems to work quite well. I very 
seldom hear anyone saying to much about how the car is wired. I very 
seldom hear about the wires burning up unless there is a problem. The 
problem that I can see is what Lucas puts on the ends of the wire. 
Amp makes some of the best connectors in the world and the De Lorean 
has them all over the car. Bosch also makes great parts and they to 
are all over the car. The problems we all keep talking about are 
under rated items such as Relays, fuses, fuse holder so on. It's very 
simple for those that don't understand, current draw and voltage and  
the ratings of the items used. If you want to use a 40 amp fuse in 
the fan circuit then do so. But if the motors burn up because it took 
to long to blow, then you can blame it on some else. 
I chose to make the product fit the application. I use 15Amp fuses in 
my Fan Fail Fix because the fans draw 14 amp ea.and it offers maxium 
protection. They will blow quicker and won't over heat unless 
something else is wrong. Some people can't stand it if someone else 
comes up with a new idea such as The Fan Fix. It's so simple it hurts 
and it's a plug in and addresses more than one problem with the car.
If De Lorean would have used the right component and if people 
understood inductive load vs resistive load and De Lorean/Lucas used 
the right product for the right application then their wouldn't be 
The Fan Fix, The Fan Fail Fix , The Fan Zilla or any other Zilla 
product. We would have a 200 HP std engine or better. I hope the poor 
sole who comes up with a simple solution for HP that doesn't cost 
$7000.00 keeps his mouth shut. Instead of people on this group 
encouring people to come up with a better mouse trap, this group 
can't wait to criticize someone because they did something simple 
that works and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. 
Another example The De Lorean 140 alternator I build. With the 
exception of one alignment problem, reported they work fine, sold 
several and everyone seems to be happy and they don't cost $350.00 
for an alternator. If your not happy I will refund your money. 
In closing, I think this group including me should encourage change 
and people who want to take on the task, not sit back complain. Other 
people and shops are doing it or they wouldn't be coming out with new 
and better product. 
I would also like to thank Knut for his reply. I  see very little of 
this to anyone trying to help. DMCJOE, hats off, Walter, always a new 
twist, David, great opinions. I have learned a lot from this group. 
I still Fix parts.  
Sincerely
John

       --- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "jtrealty_at_dml_w... " <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> 
wrote:
> I think it's really creative for us on the list to discuss 
different 
> ways to compensate for the shortcommings of these 2 major areas of 
the 
> car's electronics. While some of the fixes are "interesting" many 
> people on the list are not mechanics or electricians. They are 
> looking for something that is simple to install and reliable. 
Instead 
> of trying to reinvent the wheel the Zilla line of products is 
exactly 
> what the car needs.There is something to be said for a standard fix 
so 
> that it would be easy for someone else to troubleshoot.If you build 
> your own fix then pity the next owner or mechanic to try to figure 
out 
> what was done.In addition to a "non standard fix" most people are 
> notoriously bad when it comes to documentation. All one has to do 
is 
> see a few of the "fixes" in the fuel pump circuit because the 
person 
> didn't understand the inertia switch or RPM relay.If you have not 
yet 
> installed the Lockzilla or Fanzilla you should. At some point your 
fix 
> WILL fail or your origional parts will fail and the price for the 
> Zillas will seem small compared to the aggrivation, towing, 
collateral 
> damage etc. on a second subject I have been using an eastwood 
product 
> called "KOPR-SHIELD". I can't yet say it is the answer to bad 
contacts 
> in the fuse block but I haven't had any problems yet. I suppose the 
> best protection is to keep the contacts clean and TIGHT. If the 
> contacts are not tight then a vicious circle of events occurs. The 
> hotter the contacts get the less tension on the connecters the less 
> tension the more heat until events run away and you have a melt-
down. 
> The first sign might be a smell.It would be very prudent to keep a 
> small fire extingwisher in the event of the unthinkable. On a 
recent 
> trip with another "D" his fan relay bypass wire melted and lead to 
a 
> few scary moments. Fortunatly there was no damage and we repaired 
it 
> temporarlay so he could drive home. The bypass wire was supposed to 
be 
> a temporary fix untill the factory could do better 18 years ago! 
How 
> many cars are out there running on the origional fan relay or the 
> bypass wire? The first thing a new owner should do is get the relay 
> and circuit breaker upgrades and 2 Zillas.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757 YES I have installed the Zillas and they are GREAT




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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 20:39:50 -0600
From: Jim Reeve <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Update on Backlit gauge pics

I managed to get some very good shots better showing the illumination of
the backlit speedo face prototype I have built.  Please view them here -
http://www.egroups.com/files/dmcnews/Backlit+Dash/ under the egroups
"files" section.  I thought my unreliable web server would stay up, but
I guess it didn't.  So anyone who tried to access my webpage about the
gauge faces but couldn't, please go to the files section to view the
pictures.  I'm working on moving the webpage to a more reliable server
right now.  The pictures in my folder are updated as of Sunday (12-3)
morning, so if you haven't seen the latest, check it out.
-- 
Jim Reeve <Ultra>
'81 DeLorean-#6960
http://www.dmcultra.com (Now down AGAIN!)
AIM-Ultra2169



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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 01:27:07 -0000
From: "John Hervey" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: cabin lights

Kevin, 
If the cabin light wires are plugged in right after you did what 
Robert said, gently push the light lens towards the windsheild. 
That's what I do with mine and the lights delay going out about 30 
seconds after I get in. If it doesn't work that way then try the lens 
other way.
John



 --- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Kevin Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> Also, while poking around behind the seats, I just discovered the 
rear light. I've only had the car a monthish, so that's not THAT bad 
of me not to have seen it before.
> 
> This light does work in a door open position, where the front 
cockpit light does not work in the door position, only in the always 
on position. The rear one also stayed on a while a few times after 
closing the door, but other times went right out.  Weirdness, yes; 
what to do?
> 
> My passenger door lights don't always work, but that is definitely 
their switches fault. Could they be related problems?
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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