From: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 6:05 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 324

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There are 17 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. engine component testing.
From: "gwells" <gwells_at_dml_totalise.co.uk>

2. Re: Deja-Vu: A frightning experience
From: "robert parker" <roberthparker_at_dml_hotmail.com>

3. Re: DMCA 160 mph speedometer face
From: "robert parker" <roberthparker_at_dml_hotmail.com>

4. Re: Door adjustment Tech Tip
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

5. Re: Fire extinguishers
From: rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com

6. Re: A frightning experience(Part 1)
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

7. Re: Deja-Vu: A frightning experience
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>

8. Re: engine component testing.
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

9. Re: Re: Fire-Extiguishers (was Deja-Vu: Frightening Experience)
From: "Don Ekhoff" <ekhoff_at_dml_seagullsolutions.net>

10. Re: Door adjustment Tech Tip
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

11. Frame about half-way complete
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com

12. Re: Halon poisonous (?), etc
From: "Roger Brogren" <rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com>

13. Instrument light bulbs
From: "Roger Brogren" <rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com>

14. Re: Instrument light bulbs
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fisherdesign.com>

15. RE: Instrument light bulbs
From: "Bryn Potter (NEC)" <v-brynp_at_dml_microsoft.com>

16. Re: Halon poisonous (?), etc
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

17. Fire Extinguishers - End of thread
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 14:26:30 -0000
From: "gwells" <gwells_at_dml_totalise.co.uk>
Subject: engine component testing.

I currently have the fuel injection system and air intake manifold
removed, to carry out maintenance and repair.
Whilst I have access to the coolant distribution pipe, it would make
sense to test otherwise inaccessible components.

    1. Firstly there is theThermal vacuum control valve. According to my
books,at temperatures below 40 degrees, this allows vacuum to reach the
control pressure regulator, and this seems to happen since there is
effectively a 'circuit' between outlets D and  1 on the valve. This does
not change when you subject the valve to 40 degrees, so I assume the
valve is faulty. Also there is no flow between D and outlet 2 (to vacuum
solenoid) at any temperature.

    2. Lambda thermal switch. This should, I believe, have continuity at
temperatures below 15 degrees (+/- 3degrees) and be open above that
temperature. This seems to be working OK.

    3. Idle speed thermistor. At temperatures below 15 degrees, the book
says that the thermister signals the ECU module to switch the regulator
to a wider open position. At any temperature this thermister appears to
have no continuity between the two terminals on the thermistor. I assume
that this is therefore faulty.

Perhaps list members could let me have their observations on the above
tests that I have caried out and also  suggest any others that I should
carry out on any other components whilst I have the opportunity.

Graham (UK) vin 17152




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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 18:36:41
From: "robert parker" <roberthparker_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Deja-Vu: A frightning experience

Ah, an EXCELLENT idea!  Unfortunately, scientists & "treehuggers" have 
deemed Halon hazardous to the Ozone layer!  UH oh!  Almost impossible to 
find now.    Of course, these same scientists also discovered ANY thing 
producing heat damages the Ozone. (foundries, engines, stoves, fireplaces, 
etc.)      As they have not found anything even REMOTELY as effective as 
Halon for extinguishing flames, (e.g., aircraft engine fire), a problem 
developes: Do we allow the fire to damage the Ozone layer, damage/destroy 
the vehicle, & most probably kill the passengers? Or, do we use Halon to 
RAPIDLY extinguish the flames, damaging the Ozone layer, but saving vehicles 
& passengers.  Hmmm, decisions, decisions!
At any rate, drive stainless!    Robert  VIN 6924

>From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
>To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [DML] Deja-Vu: A frightning experience
>Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 17:19:34 -0800
>
>  Use a Halon fire extinguisher. The Halon displaces the oxygen and leaves 
>no
>mess afterwards.



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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 18:03:28
From: "robert parker" <roberthparker_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: DMCA 160 mph speedometer face

I sent mine in for that mod maaaany moons ago. Have had no complaints 
whatsoever.  Added bonus: a calibration sheet is included which is tucked in 
my glove box. Comes in handy when discussing "certified, calibrated" 
equipment if pulled over by the Gendarmes.    Drive Stainless     Robert   
VIN 6924


>From: "Richard W. Schauer" <rws_at_dml_enteract.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
>Subject: [DML] DMCA 160 mph speedometer face
>Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 14:11:54 -0600 (CST)
>
>
>For those who were asking what the De Lorean Motor Club of America's 160
>mph speedometer face looked like, I have scanned in a copy of the face
>from an old "De Gull Wing" newsletter (I'm at work and I don't recall



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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 15:35:17 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Door adjustment Tech Tip

David,

To prevent DeLorean owners attempting your test procedure from being injured
you should proceed your instructions with the following.

"SAFETY WARNING"

BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO REMOVE THE DOOR GAS STRUT BE ABSOLUTLY SURE THAT THE
GULWING DOOR WEIGHT IS SUPPORTED WITH A SUITABLE BRACE MADE FROM A 2X4
SECTION OF LUMBER PLACED BETWEEN THE OUTSIDE DOOR EDGE AND GROUND.

REMOVAL OF THE DOOR STRUT WITHOUT THIS SUPPORT WILL CAUSE THE GULWING DOOR
TO DROP WITH GREAT FORCE RESULTING IN POSSIBLE SERIOUS PERSONAL INJURY.

Additionally for accurate results of your test the DeLorean must be on a
flat level surface.

DMC Joe

"We're here to help you"
Seasons Greetings!

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: (TEMPORARY)<www.geocities.com/dmcjoe>



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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 16:04:40 EST
From: rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Fire extinguishers

Dave wrote:

> "You are probably about to find that cleaning up the fire extinguisher 
> 

Amen!

I have had three experiences with fire extinguishers and all were messy. 
The last was when some vandals broke into my hangar and discharged an 
extinguisher into the interior of my airplane and another into the gas tanks 
of another airplane. The powder is extremely fine and I had to have all 
instruments taken apart and cleaned. Cleaning up the interior and 
particularly under the instrument panel was also a long job and in total the 
cost was over $800. In the other plane the tanks had to be removed, cleaned 
and flushed. That bill came to $1400.
Both of my other experiences were on the road and both of them were engine 
fires in cars that had pulled of the road with smoke and flames coming out. 
The fires were snuffed out quick enough, one of the cars could be driven 
away, the other was left for a tow truck.

My recommendation is: Don't buy the 20 buck fire extinguishers of the 
hardware store variety but get a Halon extinguisher! A regular extinguisher 
is murder on electrical and electronic components! A regular extinguisher is 
certainly better than none, but be prepared for a tedious and expensive clean 
up job.
Halon is on the "endangered species" list but they are still available and 
legal.

If you are not familiar with the use and versions of portable fire 
extinguishers the following link will take you to a good article, written by 
a pro and contains a number of tips that everybody should know.

http://www.4x4road.com/tipsvf.html

Roger 
  



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 16:18:17 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: A frightning experience(Part 1)

Nathian,

I would like to correct two of your comments in defense of the DeLorean
electrical system.

You said: "A fire can start so quickly...esp. in DeLoreans".

The DeLorean electrical system is no more prone to catching fire as any
other automobile.

You also said: "This story is dedicated to the wonderful Lucas Electronics".

With the exception of a couple of Lucas installed components, Lucas was not
involved with the design or construction of the DeLorean electrical system.

Concerning your dash fire; we have no reports or experiences of DeLorean
dash related fires. All of the dash circuits have factory installed fuse
protection. However I have seen many DeLoreans, that have un-fused
additional wiring installed by owners for additional dash installed
accessories.


"We're here to help you"
Seasons Greetings!

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: (TEMPORARY)<www.geocities.com/dmcjoe>



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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 20:08:35 -0000
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: Deja-Vu: A frightning experience

We have the same "ecological" problems in the UK, I have managed to find
Halon  fire extinguishers  second hand and very cheap  in( green containers)
at car boot / flea markets.  As long as they are nice and heavy, indicating
full or nearly full, they will be fine. No messy powder for me! At work I
have to use fire extinguishers on several occasions and I don't rate the
messy powder stuff at all. My son once set fire to a cooking pot at home and
thanks to a Halon  extinguisher, put out the fire with no mess at all.


Chris P DOC UK

----- Original Message -----
From: "robert parker" <roberthparker_at_dml_hotmail.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [DML] Deja-Vu: A frightning experience


> Ah, an EXCELLENT idea!  Unfortunately, scientists & "treehuggers" have
> deemed Halon hazardous to the Ozone layer!  UH oh!  Almost impossible to
> find now.




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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 15:16:42 -0500
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: engine component testing.

Graham,

The thermal vacuum control valve works as an 'either/or' switch between the
control pressure regulator and the distributor vacuum advance.  When cooler
than 40C (104F) it allows manifold vacuum to reach the control pressure
regulator but not the solenoid.  When warmer than 40C (104F) the opposite
is the case:  It allows no vacuum to reach the control pressure regulator
and does allow it to reach the solenoid.

Since your valve does not change states according to temperature, it appears
to be defective.  Make sure that you are warming the valve up enough to
check it.  Since your engine is not in running condition, what are you doing
to heat the valve?

If the valve is continually stuck in the cold state, then your spark will
not be advancing properly and this would not be good.

Hope this helps,
Walt    Tampa, FL





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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 11:13:46 -0800
From: "Don Ekhoff" <ekhoff_at_dml_seagullsolutions.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Fire-Extiguishers (was Deja-Vu: Frightening Experience)

FYI:  Halon is not poisonous gas; it simply displaces the oxygen and will
not support combustion itself.  You can breath it, you just won't get any
oxygen either.  I used these things in automatic systems in the
communication shacks along the Alaskan Pipeline.  I believe they may be
phased out now because they halon is a fluorocarbon and fell into the ozone
layer legistration.

Don Ekhoff



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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 23:17:21 -0000
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Door adjustment Tech Tip

I agree that you should always warn people about the dangers of any 
procedure and propping the door open is required. I do disagree with 
the manner you suggest. I recommend that the prop is placed between 
the door sill and the open door as in a door adjustment. There are
two 
reasons for this, 1 if the car should move the prop would still hold 
the door and 2 there is less chance of hitting it with your foot as 
you move around the car. For all readers of this list any procedures 
or modifactions, tips, repairs et al require the reader to take all 
common sense precautions and more. Many of the suggestions assume a 
competancy that may be above many of the readers. An experieced 
mechanic would be familiar with the dangers where a novice would not. 
The door system with the torsion bars is one of the potentially most 
dangerous things to work on. The same with the springs in the 
suspension. It is not intuitivly obvious how much power is locked up 
in these systems and without the proper precautions there is a HIGH 
risk of serious injury. As with all things in life "If you don't
know, 
ask". If any of these tips are above your level it is always better
to 
seek advice before you get in over your head.Watch an experienced 
person and they make it look easy but you don't know all of the 
thinking and skills behind it. Working on your own car can be an 
enjoyable thing to do, no one wants to hear of anyone getting hurt so 
use common sense and don't take chances with your car or your
anatomy. 
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> David,
> 
> To prevent DeLorean owners attempting your test procedure from
being 
injured
> you should proceed your instructions with the following.
> 
> "SAFETY WARNING"
> 
> BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO REMOVE THE DOOR GAS STRUT BE ABSOLUTLY SURE 
THAT THE
> GULWING DOOR WEIGHT IS SUPPORTED WITH A SUITABLE BRACE MADE FROM A 
2X4



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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 19:08:54 EST
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Frame about half-way complete

Hey List,

     I just wanted to let everyone know the progress I made on my frame 
today.  I installed all the brake lines, the steering rack, the radiator, 
tranny shifter linkage, the steel fuel lines including the fuel accumulator 
and the lower link and wishbone assemblies for the front suspension.  I would 
have had the whole front suspension and part of the rear suspension finished, 
but I had a problem with the coilspring compressor and I am going to rent one 
tomorrow morning.  So I think tomorrow the whole frame should be finished and 
the body will be lowered back onto the frame.  I will be sure to post again 
tomorrow night with another update on my restoration.  If you have any 
questions feel free to e-mail me.  

Later,
Nick
1852
Http://members.aol.com/njp548



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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:24:27 -0000
From: "Roger Brogren" <rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Halon poisonous (?), etc

I am not sure that Don is right. There were two types of Halon used 
for firefghting and one was NOT recommended in confined cockpits such 
a car or airplane. I don't recall the Halon numbers but a search on 
the web should answer that question. (Using your search engine, try: 
halon+fire+extinguishers and you will get reams of information.)

Referring to DMC Joe's comment: I do not think the DeLorean is more 
prone to dash fires either, however a LOT of the electrical 
components are pretty rinky-dink! And unfused wiring is a hazard in 
ANY car. My question would be: How the heck do you get a fire 
extinguisher nozzle in under the dash? Or into the relay/fuse 
compartmnt for that matter, when flames may be licking your fingers 
and with acrid smoke filling your eyes and nose! (No, I am not 
paranoid about this but I believ in being prepared!)

As far as Lucas wiring and components are concerned: Give me just 
about anything but!   

Roger





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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:45:38 -0000
From: "Roger Brogren" <rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Instrument light bulbs

Does anybody have a source or cross reference for the four small 2 
Watt lightbulbs around the A/C control? I have tried several car part 
places here and nobody have ever seen one like that.

I have two different brands in my D, OSRAM (number unreadable) and 
12829 Philips 12V 2W.

2nd question: There is an even tinier light bulb in the center of the 
Hazard switch. Mine is burned out and I wonder how to get it out! (I 
have tried the old plastic tubing trick but there is not enough room 
around the bulb.) I assume that the bulb is replacable but need a 
part or identification number,if can get the old bulb out. Can it be 
pushed out from behind?

Thanks in advance!
Roger 






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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 23:09:27 -0500
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fisherdesign.com>
Subject: Re: Instrument light bulbs

Roger,
    I did that same hunt about two months ago.  No luck at any local
shops, so I ended up buying them from DMC Houston.  I tried everything
from automotive stores to light specialty shops.
    Get them from Houston, it will save you a lot of time.
    -Josh
    VIN 5102
    VIN 15964


Roger Brogren wrote:

> ...Does anybody have a source or cross reference for the four small 2
> Watt lightbulbs around the A/C control? ...

> Roger




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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 18:06:49 -0800
From: "Bryn Potter (NEC)" <v-brynp_at_dml_microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Instrument light bulbs

Any Porsche dealer. The lights are the same as the 1979 Porsche 928 dash
lights.

~Bryn

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Brogren [mailto:rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 4:46 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Instrument light bulbs


Does anybody have a source or cross reference for the four small 2 
Watt lightbulbs around the A/C control? I have tried several car part 
places here and nobody have ever seen one like that.



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Message: 16
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 05:01:56 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Re: Halon poisonous (?), etc

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Roger Brogren" <rbrogren_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I am not sure that Don is right. There were two types of Halon used 
> for firefghting and one was NOT recommended in confined cockpits 
such 
> a car or airplane. >snip<> 
> Roger

The reason why it is not recomended for ANY confined areas (car, 
cockpit, etc) is because HALON displaces O2 which means if you are in 
a closed area and you spray it, you will suffocate to death. care 
must be taken. I wouldn't recomend anyone getting a HALON extig since 
you may have to be partially in the car to spray it (for dash fires 
for example). But then again that is IMHO. :)

Steve





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Message: 17
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 05:37:12 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Fire Extinguishers - End of thread

Now that everyone is thoroughly confused . . 

I'd recommend that you get one, but talk to someone who actually 
knows something about them  - like a fire department or fire 
extinguisher vendor (not the kid at Walmart). There are obvously 
conflicting opinions here. 

You'll have to consider some tradeoffs; effectivity vs. cost vs. 
potential mess vs. potential for firing the thing off while you are 
still in the car with the doors closed. 

Dave Swingle - Moderator




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