From: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 7:39 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 328

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There are 17 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Digest Number 326
From: "Nathan E. Green" <gzen21_at_dml_excite.com>

2. Re: Welcoming myself to the group
From: iznodmad_at_dml_aol.com

3. Re: Door lock module (was Steering Wheel recovering)
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>

4. Re: Fans, doors, and lights (oh, my!)
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>

5. Re: New Subject
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>

6. Re:Buzzers WAS:door switches/wires
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>

7. Re: sparkplugs
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

8. Re: Door lock module
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

9. Re: Continuous Idle
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

10. New Poll
From: comet6974_at_dml_juno.com

11. Re: door switches/wires
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

12. Re: Digest Number 326 Now Fuses
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

13. Re: door guides
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

14. Re: Buzzer - (WAS: door switches/wires)
From: "Tom Niemczewski" <tomcio_at_dml_gtemail.net>

15. Re: Continuous Idle
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

16. RE: Re: sparkplugs
From: "Doc" <doctor280_at_dml_email.msn.com>

17. Battery drain
From: rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:10:13 -0800 (PST)
From: "Nathan E. Green" <gzen21_at_dml_excite.com>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 326



>     Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:41:52 -0500
>     From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
>  Subject: Re: Delorean fires...
>  
>  My comments are not based on theory they are based on statistics and
>  personal experience. We have been keeping records on DeLorean component
and
>  system failures since 1984. To date we have no records of electrical
fires
>  either in the dashboard area or electrical compartment of any
non-modified
>  DeLoreans. Lots of melted fuses, but no fires.. . . . .
>  
>  In conclusion, my comments are only to prevent negative roomers from
>  influencing future prospective buyers and insurance companies who will
use
>  these negative comments to raise our already high rates.
>  
>  DMC Joe
>  "We're here to help you"
>  Seasons Greetings!
>  
>  DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
>  Web Site: (TEMPORARY)<www.geocities.com/dmcjoe>

Cool. I hope you don't take any negative connotation by my remarks. I will
agree that probably very few electrical problems will start a fire.(so the
ratio I mentioned is very low) My comment isn't to say there has been or
will be fires, but to merely point out the high potential for fire based
upon my observations and simple logic.

Maybe my experience was extreme. But melted fuses and/or fuse blocks is
enough to make me cautious. In my case, it wasn't just the headlight
switch...it was the fact to fuse didn't do it's job. If I can save one
Delorean from fire because an owner read these posts and got a fire
extinguisher---it is worth it.

With that said, I agree about the influenece this discussion could have on
insurance/buyer if it is taken out of context. Therefore, I will drop this
subject. I hope this has been beneficial to the list.
(You're still a great guy, DMCJoe!! :)  )

Nate

BTW, the Delorean is doing OK. I ended up pulling the fuses and driving
home--shrieking clutch and all. I have vacumed most of the interior,
although I still have to get all the dash panels off. Damage appears
minimal. Limited to the Headlight switch, A/C mode switch and radio. No
damage to the nbinnacle or dash or any additional wiring. I will post a full
report later.

--- 
Nathan E. Green
gzen21_at_dml_excite.com

"If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88mph you're gonna' see
some serious s--t"
-Doc Brown: "Back to the Future"





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Send a cool gift with your E-Card
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 20:05:02 EST
From: iznodmad_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Welcoming myself to the group

Tyler,
       Congratulations on your new purchase!  I know #3472 and the former 
owner Mike Babb.  You have yourself quite a nice DeLorean now.  I know that 
you got the car from NC, so my question is where have you taken it?  Is it 
still in NC or a nearby state?  As far as the frame rust is concerned, I 
would read the back issues of the DML and the tech notes on the dmcnews 
webpage.  Those sources will tell you how to repair the rusty areas of the 
frame.  My recollection of the sources involves scraping off the old epoxy 
and using something (a popular option is POR-15) to "re-paint" the areas.  I 
hope this little tidbit helps and good luck with your new D.

Regards,
Darren Decker
VIN 5000........in NC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 01:55:21 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Re: Door lock module (was Steering Wheel recovering)

Walt, I believe you are either wrong about your knoledge of the stock 
lock module, or you misstated what you intended to write.  The factory 
lock module does NOT continously supply the solenoids with power.  
There is no design flaw on part, when working propory they also send 
a "tick" of power to the solenoids.  If the stock module never fails, 
neither should the solenoids.  Only when the internal relays in the 
stock module stick, do the solenoids recieve continuous power and burn 
them up.  I do not have lockzilla so I cannot accurately comment on 
your problem about your "situation" when your doors go out of sync.  A 
properly operating system should never go out of sync if used 
proporly.  Are you using the remote with one or both the doors open?  
If so this may be your problem.  I dont have detailed knoledge about 
mechanical aspect of the lock system, but for some reason they dont 
want to lock when the doors are open.  And if you do manage to lock it 
with the door open there is a good chance you may jam your latch.  
(Yet another situation to add to the "stuck in car" reasons.)  I'm 
sure some other people on this list have better knoledge as to why 
this is so, but I just know it is true.  On the other hand, if both 
doors are closed and are still getting out of sync, the solenoids 
probably need a rebuild.  I see this post is starting to become as 
long as many of yours :-), so I'll leave you with more troubleshooting 
to do.

Jim Reeve
-6960

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> What happens with the OEM lock module is it sends current to the 
lock
> solenoids until they move.  If they fail to move, then they burn up 
trying.
> The Lockzilla instead gives the solenoids a 'one shot' -- meaning 
that it
> sends them current for a moment.
> Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 02:19:35 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Re: Fans, doors, and lights (oh, my!)

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, Noah <sitz_at_dml_o...> wrote:
> 1) My cooling fans are flipping on and off every few seconds (5-30, 
at a
> guess). I can hear (and feel it if I'm driving). Additionally, they 
came
> on immediately today, during the first start in 3 days.

Is your AC compressor coming on also?  The compressor cycles every few 
seconds, and the fans with go right with it.  That also describes the 
fans coming on at start, because the compressor was probably activated 
during this also.  Turn your mode switch to off, or a setting other 
than MAX, NORM, or BI-LEV (yes, that also activates the compressor!)  
I bet this solves your problem.

> 2) My 'lock doors' dash light is flipping on and off every few 
minutes
> 
> 2a) In a possibly related situation (I dunno, 'cause I am /so/ 
learning as 
> I go here.) either door can, by key or from inside the car, lock 
both 
> doors. But neither door (using key or lock inside) will unlock the 
other,
> only itself.

The lock doors light sounds like a loose connection in the module's 
harness.  And your lock solenoids have two possibilities, either a 
loose connection in the module's harness or burned out solenoids.  
Judging by your light problem, I would guess it is the harness 
connector.  I had the exact same problem with my solenoids (locking, 
but not unlocking), to my luck, it turned out to be a bad connection 
in the harness.  Unplug your module and replug it a couple of times, 
and the problem should be cured.  But if you use the locks regularily, 
you should either completely disconnect your lock module or get 
lockzilla.

 
> 3) My cabin lights don't come on when the doors open, however, they 
do
> respond to being turned on manually (but then don't we all. Ba-dum 
bum.) 

I dont have a lot of knoledge on this circuit (primarily since mine 
works perfectly!), but I do know that the delay unit does not effect 
the basic operation of the interior lights.  With the delay unit 
removed, they should still light, but simply not delay off.  I dont 
know where the diodes are, but you should also check the connectors on 
the lights themselves.

Good Luck!!!!

Jim Reeve
-6960




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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 02:27:16 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Re: New Subject

I personally have never been bothered by actual road noise, but there 
is another aspect to this which I dont know if many people realize.  
When going over bumps, the plastic body has a tendency to resonate, 
despite any soundproofing material placed on it.  I have found this to 
occur mostly in the large flat areas, where the plastic could act like 
a woofer.  These locations are the floors of the footwells, and the 
center of the rear shelf (pound any of them with your fist, you'll 
know what I mean).  Since I've only owned my car for 3 months, I 
havn't botherd trying to correct this.  But next year I am going to 
experiment with fastening (not sure how yet) some small brackets to 
these areas to keep them from vibrating over bumps.  If anyone else 
has experimented doing this, I'd love to hear your results!

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Don Ekhoff" <ekhoff_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> The DeLorean has very little in the way of sound proofing. 

Jim Reeve
-6960




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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 02:34:30 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Re:Buzzers WAS:door switches/wires

All cars should have buzzers.  Your is most likely disconnected 
from the previous owner because of the terrible tone it makes.  When 
at the Cleveland show with a buddy, everytime we drove with the 
(driver) door open, the buzzer would be sounding.  The previous owner 
of my car unpluged the buzzer, and I commend whoever he/she is for it! 
 (Probably the only thing they did right with the electrical system). 
 Look under your drivers footwell.  Among the flasher, inertia switch, 
lambda counter, wiper module, and other stuff should be a generic 
looking peizo buzzer.  Look for a loose/disconnected harness conector, 
thats probably your problem.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Kevin Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> you have a buzzer? When did buzzers start, or is there a problem 
with mine?

Jim Reeve
-6960
AIM - Ultra2169




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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 20:54:35 -0500
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: sparkplugs

Kevin,

Long ago I bought a PJ Grady major tune-up kit and was given the option of
getting either copper or silver tipped Bosch plugs.  The silver were of
course more money and better quality, so I opted for those.  They are model
HR6DS.  Oh if only I had the time to install them!

If you opt for the PJ Grady stuff, order it through DMC Joe.  He deserves
credit for all his effort on the list here.

You got me curious about using the micro-washers/shims.  I've heard about
using these before but never tried it myself because I didn't know which way
the gap is supposed to point.  If you find out, let me know.  Does anyone
know a good place to buy these?  I've seen them in a Jacob's Electronics
catalogue, but I would rather buy them from a D vendor or get them locally.
The HP gain is very small, but in the Delorean's case every additional
horsepower counts.

Walt    Tampa, FL





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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 21:00:47 -0500
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Door lock module

Oops!  I gave y'all some wrong information.  The OEM door lock module also
sends a one-shot signal to the solenoids.

What do y'all think about designing a new door lock module that senses
current draw to test the state of the door locks?  This would give me the
feed-back loop that I'm looking for without adding new wires in the door.

-----Original Message-----
From: David Swingle <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
To: Walter <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Date: Monday, December 11, 2000 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: Door lock module


>Welll  - not exactly. The OEM circuit is a one-shot as well. There is no
>feedback loop.

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
>To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 8:30 PM
>Subject: Door lock module (was Steering Wheel recovering)
>
>
>> What happens with the OEM lock module is it sends current to the lock
>> solenoids until they move.  If they fail to move, then they burn up
>trying.
>
>




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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 03:05:27 -0000
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Continuous Idle

Your idle speed regulator and motor are both working fine. The idle 
speed regulator on the DeLorean is not spring loaded. The rotary 
slide valve rotates clockwise/counter clockwise, but it DOES NOT spin 
360ļ. 

How the airflow is controlled:

   Attached to the end of the shaft inside of the motor is a piece of 
metal that blocks the airflow going into the engine. As the motor 
turns it either blocks to opening to decrease the amount of air going 
into the engine, or slides out of the way to allow more air to enter. 

How the motor works:

   Think of it like this: You have 2 electro magnets, and between 
them is a steel ball. If you want the ball to roll to the left, you 
would obviously give power to the left magnet. And when the ball has 
reached to point you want it to be at, you simply shut the magnet off 
and vice versa. The idle speed regulator works much in the same way. 
When idle is increased the ECU grounds the connection on one side to 
force the motor to rotate counterclockwise to open up airflow. Once 
the idle has reached it's desired RPM's, the ECU kills power to the 
magnet and again vice versa.

How the entire idle speed system works:

   When the engine is on, power is applied to the idle speed ECU. 
When the gas pedal is at rest the throttle plates fully close (to 
give total control over to the ECU), and a microswitch is tripped. 
When this switch is tripped, it grounds a wire connection telling the 
ECU to activate. On the left side of the ignition coil is a 
white/slate wire. This wire feeds a signal back to the ECU to report 
the RPM's of the engine. From this signal the ECU determines
weather 
or not to either increase or decrease the amount of air going into 
the engine in an effort to match the RPM's of the engine to the 
predetermined amount programmed into the ECU. The purpose of this is 
to keep the engine from dying if a load is placed on it while idling 
(i.e. air conditioning is turned on), and to keep the car fuel 
efficient and environmentally friendly (slower the engine runs, the 
less gas it will use, and the less emissions it will create).
   The only other part of the ECU is a thermal probe in the "Y" pipe 
on top of the engine. When the water is below a certain temp (50 some 
odd degrees or so), the ECU switches over to a cold temp RPM setting. 
Functions of the ECU are not disabled nor do they change in any way, 
the idle speed setting is only temporarily increased to slightly 
speed up the car's idle (a cold engine has more friction, plus it 
somewhat helps to warm the catalytic converter up quicker to reduce 
emissions). Even though the idle speed ECU shares the connection from 
the igntion coil with the ignition ECU for example, it works 
independantly of all other ECU's and their components.

   To test that your idle control system is working properly, try 
this: When your car is idling _at_dml_ a normal temp, unplug the motor, then 
flip the A/C on.

-Robert
vin 6585 (The DeLorean from hell.)



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, Delorean17_at_dml_a... wrote:
<SNIP>
when I remove the connector to the idle 
> speed motor nothing happens at all and it continues to idle fine.  
I thought 
> the car would die when the idle speed motor stopped.
<SNIP>





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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 20:07:21 -0800
From: comet6974_at_dml_juno.com
Subject: New Poll

There is a real quick poll on any possible interest in Delorean
Accessories, Please take a moment to look it over. Thank You very much
for your help.
Trevor Johnson
#4055 and 6974
________________________________________________________________
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 04:23:08 -0000
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: door switches/wires

The logic box (buzzer) is located under the dash on the drivers side. 
In order for the logic box to activate (buzz) 1. You must have the 
key in the ignition. & 2. The door must be open. On the drivers side 
you'll notice 2 seperate switches on the door. The top one is for the 
door lights, and the bottom is to turn the logic box on. It's 
possible that a previous owner may have disconnected this switch. It 
buzzes every time to door is open, and it is not a pleaseant sound. 
But after all it is there to remind you not to leave your keys in the 
ignition...

-Robert
vin 6585 (The DeLorean from hell.)





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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 04:52:40 -0000
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 326 Now Fuses

In light of all of the posts on fires I think the best thing is for 
everyone to make sure that they have the correct size fuses in the 
correct spot. Keep an assortment of extras so you always replace with 
the correct size. Check all non-origional wiring to make sure it is 
protected by an appropriately sized fuse. Install a master switch and 
keep a fire extinguisher "just in case". If you are not sure how to 
check your car find someone qualified in car electrical systems to 
check it for you, it is not that complicated. If you have a 
malfunction in your wiring don't ignore it, get it fixed.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757




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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 04:57:10 -0000
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: door guides

The early 81's had no guides. I don't know at what vin but the factory 
then installed a large metal guide and it's heavy. There are plastic 
ones which are MUCH lighter but I don't know at what vin they were 
changed to. If you don't have any get either but if you install the 
metal ones it will require a readjustment of the torsion bars.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757




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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 00:38:08 -0500
From: "Tom Niemczewski" <tomcio_at_dml_gtemail.net>
Subject: Re: Buzzer - (WAS: door switches/wires)

So you say that your buzzer doesn't work.... you're not missing that much. I
disconnected mine - it was driving me crazy!!!
Maybe a previous owner of your car did the same. Look under the stering
wheel. It's mounted on the left side of the steering column. Little box with
wires coming to it. Oh, and it says "LUCAS" on it. If you find that it is
disconected you might want to leave it alone - after all, that's one Lucas
component less in you elec. system ;o)

Take care,
Tom Niemczewski
vin 6298
tomcio_at_dml_gtemail.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: [DML] door switches/wires


> you have a buzzer? When did buzzers start, or is there a problem with
mine?
>





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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 00:42:08 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Continuous Idle

David,

From your description it sounds like the idle speed motor is frozen. Even
though the motor may admit a hum sound it may not be operating. The easiest
way to test the motor is to completely remove it from its mounting, repeat
the test that you performed previously while looking through the aperture at
the bottom of the unit. If the crescent shaped valve does not move than the
motor is bad or it may not be getting voltage from the idle speed ECU.

There are no vacuum lines associated with the idle speed circuit.

"We're here to help you"
Seasons Greetings!

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: (TEMPORARY)<www.geocities.com/dmcjoe>




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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 01:16:58 -0500
From: "Doc" <doctor280_at_dml_email.msn.com>
Subject: RE: Re: sparkplugs

This is a good time for me to release some test results of the Bosch
Platinum+4 sparkplugs.

First I would like to mention that it is untrue that Bosch does not
recommend the Platinum+4 plugs for the PRV-6. The part number for the
sparkplugs are: 4457

With that said, let me tell about the results.

In making the results rely on the plugs alone, when I changed the plugs out,
I left the old wires, cap, and rotor button in the car. (20,000 miles on the
old Bosch Copper plugs, wires, cap, and rotor button.)

Upon installing the new Platinum+4 plugs, the idle was smoother and the
acceleration was much better, especially in the higher RPM range. Between
4000 RPM and 6000 RPM it is like a different car. The engine really likes
this power range now, with no drop off in power. Got to watch for the red
line now, as she is very eager to reach it.

I have been running these Platinum+4 plugs now for several months and have
about 3000 miles on them with no drop off in power or any other problems.

Now you donít have to take my word on this. Bosch offers a satisfaction
guarantee that reads: If you don't feel the difference, Bosch will pay for
the plugs.

I will tell you that Bosch wonít have to pay for my set....

Robert Starling
Vin#05252





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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 01:17:40 EST
From: rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Battery drain

First, thanks for the info on the instument light bulbs. Sure enough, the 
local Porsche shop carried them for $1.25 each!

I have noticed that the battery drains down from fully charged to about 9 
Volts in 2-3 days. Today I disconnected the battery, charged it for a while 
and it is holding 12.3 volts about 5 hours later. I reconnected the positive 
battery terminal and hooked up my electronic VOM (Fluke 75) between battery 
negative post and ground (battry cable) and got some peculiar readings.

Connecting negative meter lead to negative battery post and positive meter 
lead to ground I read 3.85 Amp.
Connecting negative battery lead to ground and positive meter lead to 
negative battery post I read 7.88 Amp.
Connecting a garden variety  NAPA test light between battery negative and 
ground and I get a bright light.
The needle didn't even wiggle on an old but working analog bench type 30 Amp 
meter (with 14 Ga clip leads). 
  
I pulled all the fuses in the fuse block one by one and the Amp readings 
didn't change.

As far as I know, only the digital clock is "On". 
Door switch is disconnected. 
I have not disconnected the 40 Amp breakers yet.
I do not have remote control door locks or an automatic antenna.
I have not made a load test on the battery.
I have not found any corroded connectors anywhere.

I think it is obvious that I have a sneak cirquit somewhere, but before 
pulling relays and connectors I wonder if I have missed something obvious?

Any suggestions about what to try next?

Roger
VIN 1074


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