Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 6:05 AM
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 333

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There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. MORE Theory of operation (was Diode in Lock Module)
From: "Walter" <>

2. Re: Interior Question
From: "DMC Joe" <>

3. Re: MORE Theory of operation (was Diode in Lock Module)
From: "Walter" <>

4. Re: Wet Carpet
From: "Fronzel Neekburm" <>

5. Side Stripe Questions
From: "Fronzel Neekburm" <>

6. Re: Lambda System
From: "John Hervey" <>

7. Re: re: sparkplugs

8. Re: Relay Sockets (was fires)
From: "John Hervey" <>

9. Relay Sockets
From: "John Hervey" <>

10. Road Noises
From: "Murray Fisher" <>

11. Re: sparkplugs
From: "John Hervey" <>

12. Vinyl upholstery material source?
From: "Mark Hershey" <>

13. Chip availability & repair (was Re: Lambda System)
From: "Robert Rooney" <>

14. Re: MORE Theory of operation (was Diode in Lock Module)
From: "Jim Reeve" <>

15. Grounds
From: "J Rowe" <>

16. Re: Re: Road noise
From: "B Benson" <>

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 21:27:33 -0500
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: MORE Theory of operation (was Diode in Lock Module)


It took a bit of head scratching and looking over the OEM circuit board to
find out.  There is no equivalent diode D5 in the 'lock doors' circuit.
(Whew!)  It took a bit more head scratching to figure out why.  And this
changes my TOA.

Replace this part:

"Here it is
evident that the function of diodes D5 and D13 placed back-to-back are to
allow the transistor to be switched on without the door unlock switch
interfering with the transistor's bias."

With this:
"The function of diode D13 is to allow the transistor to be switched on
without the door unlock switch interfering with the transistor's bias.  The
purpose of diode D5 is to stop the door lock module from sending a false
signal to the 'Lock Doors' dash light though resistor R12."

I am pleased to be able to contribute something useful.  I bet I've fooled a
lot of people into thinking that I'm actually smart!  :)



Message: 2
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:04:24 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: Interior Question


This as a common problem and can be corrected with the installation of the
instrument cluster reinforcement brackets, part #W300001.

"We're here to help you"
Seasons Greetings!

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <>
Web Site: (TEMPORARY)<>

----- Original Message -----
From: Derric Clark <>
Subject: [DML] Interior Question

> Hello group,
> I finally got a chance to drive a Delorean.  I am actually considering
buying this one but I do have a question.  When we drove the car the
instrument cluster shook pretty bad when we drove over a washboard gravel
road.  Is this a common thing or is there a problem here.

> Derric Clark


Message: 3
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 21:50:51 -0500
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: Re: MORE Theory of operation (was Diode in Lock Module)

I'm still wrong...  Nothing is going to get to the 'lock doors' light
through R12.  It must be blocking what's coming from the bias on Q11.  This
wouldn't be enough to send a false signal to the light, but the presence of
the bulb would throw the bias off without the diode.


Replace with the following:
"The purpose of diode D5 is to stop the 'lock doors' warning light from
pulling bias away from transistor Q11.  There is no equivalent diode D5 on
the lock doors circuit because there is no equivalent 'doors are already
locked' dash warning light to interfere with transistor Q1.  The function of
diode D13 is to allow the transistor to be switched on without the door
unlock switch interfering with the transistor's bias."

I'm sure there is another point or two which I have wrong, so I'm open to

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 4
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 04:34:30
From: "Fronzel Neekburm" <>
Subject: Re: Wet Carpet

There was the same subject on the DML a while ago, and if I remember 
correctly, it is probliy a few holes where the pedals skrew into the 
firewall, or in that general area. And when it rains, the rain comes down 
the space between the middle piece and the front piece of the fiberglass 
body parts, and comes in thru those little holes. I think there was supossed 
to be something to plug the holes, but I'm 110% sure other more knoleged 
persons on this list will fill you in on that.
Ok, now it's your turn DML.

                         __      __
                           0    0

>From: wmack <>
>Subject: [DML] Wet Carpet
>Everytime it rains or snows, and i take the Delorean out in it, the drivers
>side carpet gets completly soaked.  I looked every where for a hole or
>something but i can't find anything.  Any ideas?
>   Willie


Message: 5
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 04:57:01
From: "Fronzel Neekburm" <>
Subject: Side Stripe Questions


I've been seeing alot of deloreans with the deal stripe on a lot of web site 
latly, and it has raised a few questions. What do you do if you get a 
scratch right on the stripe? i'm sure you just can't brush it out, what is 
it exzactly made of? And this last one is for James, is DMC Houstion selling 
the thin gray strip and the black dealer stripe? Or do you just have the 

                         __      __
                           0    0


Message: 6
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 05:24:11 -0000
From: "John Hervey" <>
Subject: Re: Lambda System

Chris and Group. If anyone has this kind of problem with the Lambda 
ECU or other ECu's in the car. I have fixed two Ecu idle units and 
have all the semi'to repair Lambda and Distributor ecu's also. Lm2901 
and Lm2902 are getting harder to find. I took all a local electronics 
store had here in Dallas before he junk them.If any one can't find 
the semi they need, please let me know, I may can help or have them.  

--- In, "chris" <chris_at_dml_i...> wrote:
> My Frequency valve was not working so i tested the valve using an 
ohm meter and found the reading was 2ohms which is correct according 
to the technical manual.

 A friend of mind had a look at the ECU as he is an electronics engineer and found the 
IC had blown so 50 cents later it was all fixed!!
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 7
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:08:59 EST
Subject: Re: re: sparkplugs

Kevin, Your reply was cut off at ,,If i'm concerned about: Here's the rule of 
thumb about spark plugs. Not knowing how or why the engineers chose the 
temperature of the HR6 plug which is the coldest of the series. In the pre 
sensor and ECU days you could judge a cars proper burning condition by the 
plug. I have a list of 12 different things that a spark plug can tell you. 
Normal is the insulator tip is greyish white/brown or yellow. This tells you 
the heat range is correct for the type of driving your doing and how the car 
is operating. If you start getting the velvet look/black carbon deposites on 
the insulator then the heat range may need to be changed if  your driving 
conditions don't change.I hear most people driving the cars on short hops and 
combine that with a sensor that doesn't pre heat and all this adds a richer 
gas mixture in the cylinders and not long enough drives to burn off the 
deposites. The simple answer is to go to a hotter plug based on your driving 
conditions. I'm sure the HR6 plug is adequate for most driving conditions for 
most people, but I'm from the old school and reading the plug I find i'm 
going to a hotter plug. The start and stop driving conditions on the Dallas 
freeways is the reason. Also, As the engine gets older and it begins to burn 
oil, the problem will escalate.
Hopes this help on the plug choice.
John Hervey


Message: 8
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 06:54:43 -0000
From: "John Hervey" <>
Subject: Re: Relay Sockets (was fires)

Dave, As I'm writing this. I have the P & B or siemens sockets on my 
bench now and the male side of the socket won't slide into the female 
side of the(Rists)oem De lorean socket. Also the terminals in the 
original De Lorean sockets are a thinner design and the Siemens are a 
larger connector. They won't lock in .I will sell what I bought to 
anyone who wants them. I now have terminals of the slim design to fit 
the oem De Lorean socket, but I haven't found the replacement sockets 
to fit.The Bosch socket will accept and lock in the thinner 
connectors wires on the oem wires now in the De Lorean but the socket 
also won't slide together without grinding down the male slide side. 
I bought the Bosch socket from DMC Houston. I'm looking for the 
original Rists sockets if anyone has them for sale or trade.
John Hervey

--- In, "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> --- In, "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> > At a car show a while back a vendor was selling boxes full of 
> sockets
> > just like what is used in the Delorean.  I should have bought 
> some.  I
> > didn't buy any because I wasn't sure if they were the right 
> I only
> > had the car for a few weeks by that time and wasn't too familiar 
> with it.
> > Are those sockets easily obtainable or are they hard to find?
> Yep - common part. P&B (now Siemens) makes sockets for the relays 
> (part number VCF4-1002), and socket terminals 26A1348B (14 gauge)
and 26A1348C (12 gauge). They will interlock with the DeLorean relay 
sockets and look like the factory put them there. These are available 
from industrial electronics supply houses. Probably a whopping $2 
each. The terminals are a few cents. Siemens also make an excellent 
replacement for all the factory relays except one (I don't  recall 
which) and they only cost about $5 each. They have a much higher 
current rating (40A) and plug right in. See Darryl's excellent 
article at issue number one for more 
details and part numbers on the relays. 
> Dave


Message: 9
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 07:17:34 -0000
From: "John Hervey" <>
Subject: Relay Sockets

Group, If anyone has old wiring looms or extra oem ( Reits )relay 
sockets I would like to buy them or trade parts for them. I have 
built ( The Fuel Pump Fix ) and would like to make it available to 
slide on the back row of the relay sockets. This would make it look 
more original. This Fix will eliminate the heat off #7 fuse that the 
fuel pump draws and help prevent melting and ruining the fuse holder. 
This will also extend the life the RPM relay and eliminate contact 
burn. The kit with instructions will be available and on the web site 
in a couple of weeks. But now I need relay sockets. 


Message: 10
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:06:07 -0800
From: "Murray Fisher" <>
Subject: Road Noises

A few years ago we had an Ultravan Motorhome that had a rear engine (Corvair!!)   under the bedroom floor.   I got some sound material from a Canadian supplier at that time which was thin sheets of lead in various configurations....with both rigid and flexible backing and you could get various fasteners for it.   I lined the engine compartment with it.  That rig was almost dead silent after that....going down the highway it was like someone was towing you with a sound except road noises!  It was amazing.   This was so "bad" in its silence that I could not hear the engine when it produced knocking going up a steep hill, so I put a little battery powerd intercom back there!   Several others in our club did the same thing.   This material was kind of difficult to handle and best to keep in one piece as much as possible.   However, nowadays I wonder if the use of that lead would be some kind of a hazard and even illegal!!   WE also installed it in a front engine motorhome with almost the same results, but that was a "bearcat" to install.   FWIW Dept.

Murray Vin: 05962 Lic: DMC-XII
Washington state

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 11
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 07:24:59 -0000
From: "John Hervey" <>
Subject: Re: sparkplugs

Robert, Thanks, You saved me a lot of time in testing the Plat + 4 
plugs. I have 10 sets of them coming at less than $5.00 per ea. Our 
local auto stores arn't giving any discount and they sell them at 
$5.99 ea. If anyone is intrested, you cam email me thru or


Message: 12
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:57:19 -0600
From: "Mark Hershey" <>
Subject: Vinyl upholstery material source?

I've lately been replacing parts of my Texas sun-baked interior (some pieces
for the second time) but am rapidly running out of the kind of cash it takes
to do it with totally original parts.

Has anyone located a source for the wrinkled-leather look vinyl used on the
upper door panels and knee pads?  I know it was made by a subsidiary of ICI
(plastics, paints, etc., since the ICI logo is printed all over
the back side of the upholstery fabric. Somewhere along the line they must
have sold off that division.

I replaced the top piece of the console by carefully unstitching the old,
cracked piece and hand stitching in a piece cut from the front edge piece of
my long-retired first set of seat covers--exact match of course since it is
the same material. And there was enough left over to recover one of the thin
door trim pieces.

 But there's not much I can do about the door panels although I did vacuum
out the old foam (more like dust after all these years) and replaced with
1/4" headliner foam to plump them up a bit between the vertical stitches .
Look original, but there are still small cracks along the upper edge next to
the glass and I'd like to make new covers.

There are LOTS of upholstery companies that carry bulk vinyl for domestic
and import cars but I've found none that cross reference De Lorean.

Does anyone know whether any other car used the same vinyl texture/style?
Which one(s)

\\ Mark


Message: 13
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:40:12 -0000
From: "Robert Rooney" <>
Subject: Chip availability & repair (was Re: Lambda System)

The Radio Shack catalog lists the LM2902 IC's out _at_dml_ .99 ea. I
believe the LM2901's are the same price as well. 

A while back my idle speed ECU died on me. replacing the IC's is not 
a problem, but what is is that I'm not sure about how one of the 
chips is soldered in. It looks like someone removed part of the 
solder from 2 pins on one of my chips. So needless to say I'm unsure 
if these 2 pins need to be soldered into place. I'm _at_dml_ work right now, 
so when I get home tonight I'll place the board on my scanner & 
upload the pic.

vin 6585 (The DeLorean from hell.)

--- In, "John  Hervey" <dherv10_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Chris and Group. If anyone has this kind of problem with the Lambda 
> ECU or other ECu's in the car. I have fixed two Ecu idle units and 
> have all the semi'to repair Lambda and Distributor ecu's also. 
> and Lm2902 are getting harder to find. I took all a local 
> store had here in Dallas before he junk them.If any one can't find 
> the semi they need, please let me know, I may can help or have 
> John


Message: 14
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 22:07:12 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <>
Subject: Re: MORE Theory of operation (was Diode in Lock Module)

Whoa Walt, I've thrown you into what appears to be an endless abyss of 
possiblilites on the operation of the central locking system!  And I 
think you may be wrong with your "Lock Door" light theory. (Both of 
them).  If you look at the diagram again, you will notice that the 
Lock Doors light recieves positive power (+12V) direct from the car.  
The ground for the light come from the circuit for the unlock sense.  
What this means is that there is a constant ground coming from lock 
switches into the light and then the module when unlocked.  Same thing 
happens when locked, but then the light doesn't get a ground because 
the ground is not on the lock sense, therefore it shuts off when 
locked.  This is why your lockzilla remote will not work if the doors 
become out of sync, the module is getting a ground for both the lock 
and unlock sense, so it CANNOT be activated again untill one of the 
grounds are terminated, (hense, manually moving one of the locks).  
I'm impressed by your electronics knoledge, but I would have thought 
you would have realized that.  It is a pretty screwy system, but 
remember that this is central locking, and not tradtional locking, so 
it needs to be a little different.  Good luck with any new theories, 
even though some of that stuff goes right over my head, I do find it 
quite interesting.

Jim Reeve

--- In, "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I'm still wrong...  Nothing is going to get to the 'lock doors' 
> through R12. 


Message: 15
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:03:01 -0500
From: "J Rowe" <>
Subject: Grounds

    Hello all, I was wondering if someone could tell me where all the grounding
points are located around the car. The reason that I ask is that I needed to 
replace some bulbs around the headlight switch, hazzard light switch...etc 
and when I put the battery back in nothing happened. No courtesy lights, head-
lights, no ignition. I know the battery is charged so that's not it so I'm guessing 
it's a ground somewhere. I've put the battery in the car off and on for the last 
few months and all had been fine up until today. Any suggestions? 

  One last thing, If anyone around the Indiana Area is looking for a clean Delorean
there is one for sale in Indianapolis at Highline Motors on 96th street. It is an '82
gray and black interior, 5 speed, original tires and radio, 1500 miles. They are 
asking $19,500 for it if anyone is interested.
                                      Jason #5903

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 16
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 16:19:49 -0800
From: "B Benson" <>
Subject: Re: Re: Road noise

Another source of noise is the rear window. If the seal along the bottom is
loose it'll allow more noise into the cabin than you would think it could.
The fiberglass area below the rear window is pretty flexable and if you push
down on it you can tell if it is or isn't bonded to the glass. If it isn't
the easiest cure is to use silicone sealer to re-seal it.

Bruce Benson