From: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 7:23 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 346

Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com

There are 23 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Tire torque settings
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

2. Speedometer Dead
From: "W.D.SEARLS, JR." <Buckeye99_at_dml_copper.net>

3. Re: Re: Now Okay (Car no longer running)
From: "doctor who" <ohwrd_at_dml_hotmail.com>

4. Re: Front Speakers
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

5. Dash covers?
From: RJRavalli_at_dml_AOL.com

6. NCT's-- going going, shredded?
From: "KJ C" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

7. Re: Speedometer Dead
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

8. Re: Dash covers?
From: iznodmad_at_dml_aol.com

9. Tax deductability of a Delorean?
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

10. Front wheels installed!
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com

11. Re: Dash covers?
From: "scottmueller.al" <scottmueller.al_at_dml_netzero.net>

12. John Delorean and Reliability.
From: "Sternbach, William [IT]" <William_Sternbach_at_dml_smb.com>

13. Re: John Delorean and Reliability.
From: "Knut Grimsrud" <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_intel.com>

14. Re: John Delorean and Reliability.
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

15. interesting question/John Delorean signiture
From: Horseman of PA <the_horseman_pa_at_dml_yahoo.com>

16. Mystery Custom DeLorean?
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

17. Re: John Delorean and Reliability.
From: François Laplante <laplanca_at_dml_videotron.ca>

18. Re: John Delorean and Reliability.
From: delorean31_at_dml_aol.com

19. Re: John Delorean and Reliability.
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

20. Re: DMC Reliability, relative to a Vega :-)
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>

21. RE: interesting question/John Delorean signiture
From: "Jack & Virginia Stiefel" <stiefel_at_dml_minalco.com>

22. Re: interesting question/John Delorean signiture
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

23. lasagna heat shield
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 05:35:24 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Tire torque settings

It depends on how good you are at "feeling" 70 ft-lbs torque. They 
all need to be tight enough, but not too tight, and all kind of the 
same so as not to warp the rotors. 

I'd go ahead and get a torque wrench - the beam-type ones are fine 
and not very expensive. 20 bucks in the latest Sears catalog. Good 
enough for lug nuts. 

Really a good thing to do on ALL your cars. 

Dave

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hello All, 
> 
> in the owners manual, it says that one should be sure to tighten 
the lugnuts 
> on the wheels to 70 lb/ft after replacing the wheel.  how important 
is this? 




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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 02:14:42 -0500
From: "W.D.SEARLS, JR." <Buckeye99_at_dml_copper.net>
Subject: Speedometer Dead

On my way home from work I noticed my speedometer wasn't reading along with
the mileage. This is obviously a problem. I am quite sure it is the
speedometer cable(I hope). I plan on replacing the part but I was wanting to
know if anyone had difficulty replaing a speedo cable and if so they had any
tips. Thanks in advance.


Joel

Vin 03121






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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 01:22:29
From: "doctor who" <ohwrd_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Now Okay (Car no longer running)

Sounds like you need to overhaul the locks. Your gonna wanna go through and 
replace the bushings and loosen lube and tighten everything back up to spec. 
Sounds like you have uneven tension on part of the latch system.

hope that helps,
dr c.

From: E Grauff <datamonk_at_dml_svn.net>
Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Now Okay (Car no longer running)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 08:31:34 -0800 (PST)

Turns out that the door isn't 'locked' - the rear latch comes undone when
I pull on the handle, but the front one is jammed.  I've had problems with
the drivers door in the past.  A hard bump while driving would cause it to
come part way undone and the buzzer to sound.  After I got new tires
(softer ride) and adjusted the doors a bit, this stopped.



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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 04:05:29 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Re: Front Speakers

Walt,
I wouldn't leave that "slight buldge" on the dash pad, this will 
cause the dash pad to crack in time. Since there are tiny holes 
drilled in the dash pad for a speaker grill, it is a bit weaker in 
this part.

Steve

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
>SNIP<
  Another problem was that my replacement speakers were a bit
> thicker.  They have tweeters mounted in the centers that stick out 
a little
> higher.  This presses on the dash pad from the underside creating a 
slight
> bulge, but not bad.  If I used spacers to keep the tweeters away 
from the
> dash pad, then the studs would be too short to hold the nuts.  
>SNIP<
> Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:43:14 EST
From: RJRavalli_at_dml_AOL.com
Subject: Dash covers?

I think this was discussed awhile ago on the list, so I apologize if
this is a repeat, but does anyone know where you can buy a dash
cover for an 81 DeLorean, and what the prices run to?

Please e-mail RJRavalli_at_dml_aol.com with any info...thanks,

Richard
 



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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 17:04:16 -0000
From: "KJ C" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: NCT's-- going going, shredded?

If you want my NCT's, please act now. At least by 3pm CST 12/29, or I
will just let them be shredded for pavement.
They may have 19k miles, but they do have tread and might be useful
for someone. I don't want to store them, nor do I plan to go back to
them.

It hurts to think they will be shredded. They are history, after all.
Kevin/#4687




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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:24:23 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Re: Speedometer Dead

Hi Joel,
It can be anything on the spedometer that died ranging from the 
plastic cup on the wheel all the way up to the cable. My suggestion 
would be to start from one end and work your way up. Take off the 
driver side wheel and inspect the plastic cap. Then check the angle 
drive (most common place for failure). Just a quick note, Rob at PJ 
Grady has a beefier angle drive made. Its made with all stainless 
steel gears (instead of the stock plastic ones) and a heavier drive. 
If you angle drive did go, I would recomend getting his new improved 
one and replace it. His number is (516) 589-6224. The angle drive is 
known to fail litterally over night. Like I said work from one end 
up, if you start in different places of the cable, you might drive 
yourself crazy. As you seperate the cables from each point, with the 
front driver side wheel slightly off the ground (after you checked 
the speedo cup) have someone turn the wheel by hand and look at the 
cable where you seperated it. If it turns then put it back together 
and continue to the next point until you find where it stops turning. 
Hope this helps.

Steve


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "W.D.SEARLS, JR." <Buckeye99_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> On my way home from work I noticed my speedometer wasn't reading 
along with
> the mileage. This is obviously a problem. I am quite sure it is the
> speedometer cable(I hope). I plan on replacing the part but I was 
wanting to
> know if anyone had difficulty replaing a speedo cable and if so 
they had any
> tips. Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> Joel
> 
> Vin 03121




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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:40:19 EST
From: iznodmad_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Dash covers?

Richard,
       I would advise against using a dash cover on your car.  Here is why.  
When I purchased my car it came with one.  Now my car usually sleeps in the 
garage, but I had some work done to it one summer and I decided to put the 
dash cover on it since it was going to be outside for a few days.  When I got 
the car back I took off the dash cover and it was PURPLE!!!!  I have a grey 
interior and the vinyl dash needs to breathe.  If it cannot breath, it turns 
shades of brown and purple.  I got most of the purple out by coating it with 
Vinylex and then leaving it out in the sun.  
However, if your dash is already cracked and brown then using a dash cover 
cannot make it any worse.  Mine is made by the company called "Dashmat", 
price unknown to me.  If you want it, make me an offer b/c I will never use 
it again.  Your best bet to protect the dash is to just cover up the entire 
car during the summer if it is outside for any length of time, that's what I 
do, and it protects the entire car.  

Regards,
Darren Decker
VIN 5000


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 15:51:01 -0500
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Tax deductability of a Delorean?

Hello all,
  I bought my Delorean this year, and am wondering this:  Suppose I had put
large (removable, of course) advertisements for my website on the sides of
the car, and drove it around town to advertise - how much of the car's
purchase price is deductible or depreciatable? Since I didn't put alot of
miles on the car, I don't think it makes sense to claim the standard mileage
rate. Anyone in a similar situation? I know alot of people have bought their
cars as part of their business - I'm curious as to how you deduct the
expenses. Please email me privately (heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net) if you don't
want to discuss on the list.

Thanks in advance,  and happy new year!

-Hank




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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 17:38:52 EST
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Front wheels installed!

Hey List,

      Today I was able to install the front shocks, the dustshields for the 
front rotors, the front hub assemblies and the front wheels.  I just have the 
hubs and the front wheels on the frame right now to test fit them.  Its 
really great to see the wheels finally in place on the frame.  I tried to 
connect the tie rod ends to the steering knuckle, but I noticed that when I 
tried to tighten the nut on the tie rod end, the stud spins with it, so I had 
to order new ones, thanks to my parents, the tie rod ends are a birthday 
present!  I doubt I will be able to get any more work done on the frame since 
the big snow storm coming, but I am happy with the front wheels being on.  
Thats all for now.  As always if I get any more work done I will send a post 
to update the list.  Happy New Year everyone!

Later,
Nick
1852
Http://members.aol.com/njp548



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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 16:54:32 -0600
From: "scottmueller.al" <scottmueller.al_at_dml_netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Dash covers?

I bought a Dash-mat several years ago and paid $35 US???  I bought it from
Dash Mat.
Scott Mueller
scottmueller.al_at_dml_netzero.net
1981/002981  DOA5031/DMCNEWS


----- Original Message -----
From: <RJRavalli_at_dml_AOL.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 9:43 PM
Subject: [DML] Dash covers?


> I think this was discussed awhile ago on the list, so I apologize if
> this is a repeat, but does anyone know where you can buy a dash
> cover for an 81 DeLorean, and what the prices run to?
>
> Please e-mail RJRavalli_at_dml_aol.com with any info...thanks,
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>


Shop Safely Online Without a Credit Card
http://www.rocketcash.com



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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:50:28 -0500
From: "Sternbach, William [IT]" <William_Sternbach_at_dml_smb.com>
Subject: John Delorean and Reliability.

[MODERATOR'S NOTE: DeLorean reliability has been discussed on the list in the past. It's been a while since it was last dicussed, so I'm letting this thread start again for the newcomers. Please focus reply postings on facts -- the usual moderating filters will be in place.]


Hello,

I just wanted to make a polite comment about John Delorean and Reliability.

When John Delorean was an executive at General Motors,
he introduced a new car to compete with the foreign economy cars.
It was the Chevy Vega.  It had a 2.3 Liter Overhead Cam 4 Cylinder engine.
My sister bought a Chevy Vega brand new.

She constantly had problems with it and after 1 year, she traded it in
to the dealer and she took a big financial loss.
The Chevy Vega was GM's least reliable car of all time.
Most Chevy Vega's never lasted long enough to make it to 50,000 miles.

When John Delorean created the DMC-12,
I believe that reliability was similar to the Chevy Vega's.
Most DMC-12's have less than 50,000 miles because it is difficult
to keep the DMC-12 running continuously for a long period of time
to accumulate 50,000 miles.

I am a fan of John Delorean and the DMC-12's,
but I hope it is ok if I make this polite comment that cars that he designed
have poor reliability.

It seems the best DMC-12's to buy are the ones with over 30,000 miles,
because most of the problems have already been fixed by the previous
owner.  Another member of this list told me that if you buy one of these
"fixed" deloreans, you can expect troublefree operation for a long time.

What do you think?









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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 17:22:59 -0800
From: "Knut Grimsrud" <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_intel.com>
Subject: Re: John Delorean and Reliability.

William_Sternbach_at_dml_smb.com wrote:

> When John Delorean created the DMC-12, I believe
> that reliability was similar to the Chevy Vega's.
> Most DMC-12's have less than 50,000 miles because
> it is difficult to keep the DMC-12 running
> continuously for a long period of time to
> accumulate 50,000 miles.

I don't agree with some of the common assertions of the DeLorean quality or
reliability. I have two DeLoreans of my onw -- one that now has 140,000
miles on it. The DeLorean is generally constructed of quality components
(with a couple known exceptions for which replacements are readily
availble). The Bosch fuel injection system used in the DMC is rock solid as
is the PRV-6 B28F engine and the manual tranny (I don't know much about the
auto since I don't have one). Not only are the components used in the car
generally of good quality, but the car's design and construction is also
sound (although the build quality is a bit variable, especially with the
very early cars). Having gone through my cars from top to bottom a couple
times, I have only found a couple things on the car that are questionable.
Many of the common problems people report are usually not artifacts of build
quality or quality of materials, but of poor maintenance and improper
storage.

The most common source of DeLorean reliability problems I have encountered
with the folks in the local club and others I have contact with is generally
a result of owner neglect. A very common misperception is that not driving a
car is equivalent to preserving it. This is not true, and such neglect
(usually accompanied with a lack of regular maintenance) takes a heavy toll
on the cars. Regular maintenance applies to cars whether they are driven or
not -- for example, the window sticker reminding you of your next oil change
indicates that it's due after 3000 miles _OR_ 3 months. Cars that don't see
general use (or are parked for extended periods) often go for years without
an oil change let alone a coolant flush, brake flush, etc. I suspect that
the reason higher mileage cars generally fare better mechanically is because
they see sufficient use to undergo regular maintenance and their owners keep
up on it. As a point of cmparison, a friend of mine parked his Nissan for 12
months after which he was unable to get life back into it and ended up
donating it to charity because he couldn't get it going again. How many
DeLoreans sit for long durations?

Granted, there are a few well-known issues with the car and in general these
also have well known fixes available from the folks that do such a great job
of supporting our cars (like DeLorean Motor COmpany, PJ Grady, DeLorean
Motor Center, DMC Joe, Darryl Tinnerstedt, and so many others).

I disagree with the assertion that DMC's are not reliable cars. I would
instead assert that some DMC owners are less reliable with maintenance of
their cars.

		Knut




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Message: 14
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:24:42 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: John Delorean and Reliability.

In a message dated 12/29/00 7:04:38 PM Central Standard Time, 
William_Sternbach_at_dml_smb.com writes:


> It seems the best DMC-12's to buy are the ones with over 30,000 miles,
> because most of the problems have already been fixed by the previous
> owner.  Another member of this list told me that if you buy one of these
> "fixed" deloreans, you can expect troublefree operation for a long time.
> 
> 

Hello,

you are quite correct about the reliabilty of a 30K+ DeLorean.  more than 
likely, the major bugs have already been worked out.  however, i don't think 
the car's initial reliability has anything to do with JZD's work at general 
motors.  he didn't build the car, he hardly even designed it.  he only gave 
his specs to the other firms such as Lotus, Ital, and Lucas, and they did 
most of the dirty work for him.  in my opinion, the reliability was more of 
an issue in the early 81's, due to a fresh, newly trained workforce who 
needed to get the trial-and-error out of their system so they could learn as 
they go along.  JZD doesn't design poor cars!  as for the vega - i know 
nothing about the car so i cannot comment.

another aspect one should look at when purchasing a DeLorean for actual 
driving is weather or not the car has been used as a daily driver up until 
purchase.  this is the single-most important stepping stone to getting a 
DeLorean that looks good to a DeLorean that performs good.  again - all of 
the major bugs have been worked out (hopefully!)

also, there are plenty of DeLoreans out there with more than 50K miles on 
them...  most people don't drive theirs very much, so consequently, their car 
has low milage!  this has nothing to do with a car that cannot live that 
long.  i recently talked to a guy on AOL who is next door neighbors to a 
formal DeLorean trucking person (he used to truck D's between dealers) and he 
owns one with over 200,000 miles on it!  

just my opinion...
Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 17:46:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Horseman of PA <the_horseman_pa_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: interesting question/John Delorean signiture

I received a little info and was hopeing to share this
with the group and also find out if it is true or not.
I was told that John Delorean signed and dated every
car under the roof lining. Does anyone know if this is
indeed true? the date is also sapose to corespond to
the day it rolled of the assembly line. this comes
from someone local to me who claims to know John
personally. is this true or not? or am i being
suckered?

Wayne

no VIN... yet!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/



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Message: 16
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:20:42 -0600
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Mystery Custom DeLorean?

Rich W on the list submitted a following photo to the "Pic of the month".
Look at the first photo set on the page. We're interested in finding this
car. It was last seen in the Chicago area over 10 years ago, and we've not
seen it since. If any one knows where it is please let us know. Contact
instructions on the web page.

http://www.dmcnews.com/potm.html

Dave Swingle




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Message: 17
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 21:33:12 -0500
From: François Laplante <laplanca_at_dml_videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: John Delorean and Reliability.

Concerning the reliabilty of the DMC-12, my personnal belief is that it is
very reliable when treated and serviced properly.
   I own VIN 17145 (canadian model...that already had 60,000 kms when I
bought it) since 1995 and I have added 35,000 kms (23,500 miles) of every
day use (meeting with customers, going to lunchs, visits to supermarket,
going to golf etc). Total repairs and maintenance for these five years are
less than 2,000 $CDN including a set of tires.
  This car is as predictable as my Subaru Legacy, and except once for a fuse
related problem (it took less than 10 minutes for me to find and correct the
problem) it has never let me down on the road. Nothing to be compared to the
Vega...

Thank you to all those who contribute to this wonderful forum and happy new
year to all!

François Laplante
Hudson Québec  VIN 17145






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Message: 18
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 22:12:21 EST
From: delorean31_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: John Delorean and Reliability.

In a message dated 12/29/00 8:04:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
William_Sternbach_at_dml_smb.com writes:

<< I am a fan of John Delorean and the DMC-12's,
 but I hope it is ok if I make this polite comment that cars that he designed
 have poor reliability. >>

I would assume by this post this person is not an owner of a DeLorean.  I 
believe most owners would tell you the car is very reliable.  Far more 
reliable in fact than other cars 20 years old.  Most car marques have some 
problems when they are first produced.  The DeLorean problems are small and 
when addressed the car is extremely reliable.  I wouldnt hesitate to drive 
mine across country with no fear of any type of mecahnical problem.  First 
research about a DeLorean leads some to believe they are unreliable cars.  I 
too thought that when reading about them while planning to buy one.  However 
once one understands the cars "minor" quirks and eventually owns one, I am 
sure most would agree the car is very well designed and reliable.  There 
wouldnt be DeLoreans around with over 200,000 miles if they werent built 
well.  

Gary Gore
Vin 3360



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Message: 19
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 03:20:43 -0000
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: John Delorean and Reliability.

Before I reply, I must ask one thing. What exactly is the purpose of 
your posting? Are you considering purchasing a DeLorean for yourself, 
or someone you know and want to know more about it? Or is it 
something else? As far as reliability goes the DeLorean is a very 
reliable car once is has been raised to it's proper operating 
standard. By this of course I mean a variety of itmes. Things such as 
trailing arm bolts, updated cooling pipes, improved electrical 
relays, etc... And even then depending upon when the car was built it 
and/or who owned the car before you it may already have these 
updates/repairs completed. Ownership is a very important thing when 
it comes to a car. Let me give you an example: I own the 
proclaimed "DeLorean from hell". I have had problems with my car that 
would make the jaws of most everyone on the list here drop to the 
floor. But NONE of the problems that I've have with the car have been 
due to any defects or problems with it's design. My car sat for over 
a decade in the desert. That alone would have been enough to warrant 
a good number of problems. But it was also coupled with a string of 
mechanics before I came along who ended up causing more problems then 
they fixed. Alot of the items that have gone wrong with my car were 
easily preventable had I have known they were there in the first 
place. But because I was told they had already been taken care of, I 
overlooked them. Many of the lessons learned with my car were learned 
the hard way. If I could do it all over again there are a number of 
things I would have done differantly. But the one that I would never 
have changed was buying a DeLorean.
Geting back to your question though rahter then just my personal 
experiences, the DeLorean is a very reliable car. It has in a sense 
been blessed with a strong motor and trans-axle, great suspension, 
and a beauty second to none! One thing that you have to remember is 
that in many cases here on the list a good number of postings are 
from people like myself who are bringing our cars back onto the road. 
And these postings are concerning repairs that have to be made due to 
neglect rather then design flaws. But even then one thing that you 
need to remember with the DeLorean is that it was somewhat rushed 
thru it's production. So any types of flaws that would normaly be 
discovered durring closed road testing and development were found out 
by the consumers. But nothing that came up was something that 
couldn't be overcome on the production line. If you want to talk 
about poor designs look at the Geo Metro hatchback. The SRS module is 
located directly under the cup holder. It is entirly possible that by 
spilling a drink you could trip the module and force the air bags 
into deploying while driving. Or what about the A series cars put out 
by GM from '78-'83 with the gas tank only 11 inches away from the 
rear bumper, or what about "side sadle" mounted gas tanks on GM 
trucks? I would consider that more of a design flaw then an 
underpowered fan fail relay. In the end, I just don't see the 
connection that you've made between the Vega and the DeLorean. John 
DeLorean didn't design the Vega, he was head of Chevrolet when it 
came out. That's the only connection. If I recall right, JZD wasn't 
that fond of the Vega either. As far as DeLorean's go. Higher milage 
is usually better simply because if it's been driven that far, then 
someone must have cared for it somewhat to enable it to go the 
distance.

-Robert
vin 6585
I'd rather push my DeLorean then drive any car made by GM!



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Sternbach, William [IT]" 
<William_Sternbach_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> [MODERATOR'S NOTE: DeLorean reliability has been discussed on the 
list in the past. It's been a while since it was last dicussed, so 
I'm letting this thread start again for the newcomers. Please focus 
reply postings on facts -- the usual moderating filters will be in 
place.]
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I just wanted to make a polite comment about John Delorean and 
Reliability.
> 
> When John Delorean was an executive at General Motors,
> he introduced a new car to compete with the foreign economy cars.
> It was the Chevy Vega.  It had a 2.3 Liter Overhead Cam 4 Cylinder 
engine.
> My sister bought a Chevy Vega brand new.
> 
> She constantly had problems with it and after 1 year, she traded it 
in
> to the dealer and she took a big financial loss.
> The Chevy Vega was GM's least reliable car of all time.
> Most Chevy Vega's never lasted long enough to make it to 50,000 
miles.
> 
> When John Delorean created the DMC-12,
> I believe that reliability was similar to the Chevy Vega's.
> Most DMC-12's have less than 50,000 miles because it is difficult
> to keep the DMC-12 running continuously for a long period of time
> to accumulate 50,000 miles.
> 
> I am a fan of John Delorean and the DMC-12's,
> but I hope it is ok if I make this polite comment that cars that he 
designed
> have poor reliability.
> 
> It seems the best DMC-12's to buy are the ones with over 30,000 
miles,
> because most of the problems have already been fixed by the previous
> owner.  Another member of this list told me that if you buy one of 
these
> "fixed" deloreans, you can expect troublefree operation for a long 
time.
> 
> What do you think?




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 21:24:50 -0600
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>
Subject: Re: DMC Reliability, relative to a Vega :-)

Interesting points, but I don't see a worthy comparison. I owned a Vega when
they were new, (guess there's no such thing as an old Vega!) --  definately
no marvel of engineering excellence. Compares favorably to several all-time
low spots of American auto history, including Chrysler's Volari. and other
"K" cars. No comparison with the "D" on quality of construction--Vega cheap
and "tinny" with a more-or-less worthless engine (except the Cosworth Vega
engine, which wasn't bad) and really poor construction. Made me yearn for
the '64 Rambler of my youth! Eech!

The DeLorean is in another class altogether, certainly as far as quality of
the parts that it is made of.

Now I don't claim that the "D" is the most reliable car I've ever owned, but
it has served me well. And it is withought a doubt the most RENEWABLE car
I've ever owned, and gets the nod for easiest to repair, too.

 My  "D" is a daily driver with 150K miles added over the nine years or so
that I've owned it. Total mechanical failures and cosmetic restorations are:
Alternator- replaced original Ducy and replaced one subsequent Delco
Water pump- about the 100K mile mark
Rubber steering rack and CV joint boots- once each
Coolant bottle- replaced w/ metal version
Spark plug wires - once
Seat covers- replaced twice
Binnacle- replaced twice (anyone ever had one successfully re-covered?)
Tie rod ends- replaced once
Disk brake pads - twice
Master cylinder-once
A/C blower motor - once
Steering wheel -once
Tires- several times
Headlamps and misc. marker lamps
Dome Light housing (with HELLA unit from DMC-Houston-nice!)
Door lock mods (added outboard relays, using original lock controller )
Door struts (several times)
Trailing arm bolts
A/C mode switch (was OK, just wanted the newer version that runs the A/C
compressor in DEFROST mode)
Speedometer angle drive (once-- keep fresh lube in it and clean the speedo
cables once every couple years)
Weatherstripping (lasted nearly 20 years!)
A few interior plastic parts that just got baked in Texas sun.

Still has:
Original shocks, steering rack, all other engine parts including spark
plugs, original brake disks, original radiator and all original water hoses
(probably be replacing them this spring), original power steering pump (just
kidding), original A/T transmission governor (repaired twice, now has
hopefully permanent fix)`original muffler, and original sheet metal except
the T-top which I accidentally bent up. And it has the original window
motors (cleaned and lubed every 5 years).

 Not bad!

Only repair shop it's ever been in is an alignment and tire specialist--
done everything else myself.

William, as you postulated, once a few known trouble spots are rectified the
car has been very reliable. And with the exception of a few cheapie items
like the rear window defog switch, the speedo angle drive, and the window
regulators the quality of the components is excellent relative to ANY other
car I've owned. Including Nissan, Mazda, Toyota, Audi, Ford, and a couple of
deplorable Oldsmobiles.

My two cents' worth.
\\ Mark



----- Original Message -----
From: "Sternbach, William [IT]" <William_Sternbach_at_dml_smb.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 12:50 PM
Subject: [DML] John Delorean and Reliability.


> [MODERATOR'S NOTE: DeLorean reliability has been discussed on the list in
the past. It's been a while since it was last dicussed, so I'm letting this
thread start again for the newcomers. Please focus reply postings on
facts -- the usual moderating filters will be in place.]
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I just wanted to make a polite comment about John Delorean and
Reliability.
>
> When John Delorean was an executive at General Motors,
> he introduced a new car to compete with the foreign economy cars.
> It was the Chevy Vega.  It had a 2.3 Liter Overhead Cam 4 Cylinder engine.
> My sister bought a Chevy Vega brand new.
>
> She constantly had problems with it and after 1 year, she traded it in
> to the dealer and she took a big financial loss.
> The Chevy Vega was GM's least reliable car of all time.
> Most Chevy Vega's never lasted long enough to make it to 50,000 miles.
>
> When John Delorean created the DMC-12,
> I believe that reliability was similar to the Chevy Vega's.
> Most DMC-12's have less than 50,000 miles because it is difficult
> to keep the DMC-12 running continuously for a long period of time
> to accumulate 50,000 miles.
>
> I am a fan of John Delorean and the DMC-12's,
> but I hope it is ok if I make this polite comment that cars that he
designed
> have poor reliability.
>
> It seems the best DMC-12's to buy are the ones with over 30,000 miles,
> because most of the problems have already been fixed by the previous
> owner.  Another member of this list told me that if you buy one of these
> "fixed" deloreans, you can expect troublefree operation for a long time.
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 22:12:59 -0500
From: "Jack & Virginia Stiefel" <stiefel_at_dml_minalco.com>
Subject: RE: interesting question/John Delorean signiture

This absolutely is not true.  He was there from time to time sure, but spent
lots of time in the states, and therefore could never have signed the cars.
Even when he was in the plant, he most likely didn't sign any cars.

Jack & Virginia Stiefel
'81 DeLorean Vin 03461 August  1981 Build NYS Lic: 1981 DMC
'97 Red BMW Z3 Convertible 2.8 6 Cyl -- not the baby 4
'98 Red Dodge Ram Quad Cab Lariat
'01 Black PT Cruiser Limited w/ Flames
Visit us at www.sacketmansion.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Horseman of PA [mailto:the_horseman_pa_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 8:46 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] interesting question/John Delorean signiture


I received a little info and was hopeing to share this
with the group and also find out if it is true or not.
I was told that John Delorean signed and dated every
car under the roof lining. Does anyone know if this is
indeed true? the date is also sapose to corespond to
the day it rolled of the assembly line. this comes
from someone local to me who claims to know John
personally. is this true or not? or am i being
suckered?

Wayne

no VIN... yet!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/


Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 22
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 03:28:32 -0000
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: interesting question/John Delorean signiture

If JZD signed my car, he must have done it in invisible ink! With as 
busy as JZD was with aquiring capitol for DMC, I doubt that he had 
time enought to sign every car. Besides that, he was hardly ever in 
Belfast, and I can't recall in any books written about him when he 
ever visited any of the QAC's. But, I can tell you that every 
DeLorean that I've seen has had a date stamped on it in white ink. 
Couldn't tell you what it's for though...

-Robert
vin 6585
I'd rather push my DeLorean then drive any car made by GM!


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, Horseman of PA <the_horseman_pa_at_dml_y...> 
wrote:
> I received a little info and was hopeing to share this
> with the group and also find out if it is true or not.
> I was told that John Delorean signed and dated every
> car under the roof lining. Does anyone know if this is
> indeed true? the date is also sapose to corespond to
> the day it rolled of the assembly line. this comes
> from someone local to me who claims to know John
> personally. is this true or not? or am i being
> suckered?
> 
> Wayne
> 
> no VIN... yet!
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
> http://photos.yahoo.com/




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 22:44:35 -0500
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: lasagna heat shield

What causes a muffler heat shield to wrinkle and warp to the point that it
gets cut up in the belts and pulleys?

The owner thinks this is due the effects of moisture from storing the car
for so many years under a carport.  He thinks it got wet and stayed wet for
too long.  I'm wondering if this could have been caused by the exhaust
system from over-heating.  The car has 19K miles on it and the owner says
that the muffler has been replaced because it 'went bad'.

He quit driving the car several months ago because it was 'flooding'.

Based on this information, is it likely that the engine was running too rich
and over-heated the muffler?  And if this is the case, what can cause an
engine to do this?  A bad control pressure regulator?

Also, what is the best replacement for this heat shield?  Are the
replacements available made of asbestos?

Thanks,
Walt    Tampa, FL




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________________________________________________________________________