From: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 3:56 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 347

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There are 26 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Dealer stripe
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

2. Gas Lines From Fuel Pump
From: "Scot Stern" <SGSKBM_at_dml_aol.com>

3. Re: lasagna heat shield
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

4. Re: lasagna heat shield
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>

5. Re: lasagna heat shield
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

6. Re: Re: Tire torque settings
From: "Rob Hook" <robhook_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

7. Re: interesting question/John Delorean signiture
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

8. Re: interesting question/John Delorean signiture
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

9. Re: interesting question/John Delorean signiture
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>

10. Temperatures
From: billschaferabn_at_dml_aol.com

11. RE: Interior light - dimming!
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>

12. Water deflector for fuel pump
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

13. Possible buy:)
From: "Lance B. Bowman" <spaceace_at_dml_qx.net>

14. DeLorean(s) for sale
From: "Howard S. Smith" <TeacupFox_at_dml_aol.com>

15. Re: Water deflector for fuel pump
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

16. Re: Water deflector for fuel pump
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

17. Re: Gas Lines From Fuel Pump
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

18. Re: Gas Lines From Fuel Pump
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

19. Re: DMC Reliability, relative to a Vega :-)
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

20. Re: John Delorean and Reliability.
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

21. Re: John DeLorean & reliability
From: rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com

22. Re: interesting question/John Delorean signiture
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com

23. Re: interesting question/John Delorean signiture
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

24. Re: Possible buy:)
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

25. Turn signal.
From: sjaeger01_at_dml_aol.com

26. A Special Thanks to Everyone, Happy New year!
From: Horseman of PA <the_horseman_pa_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 03:47:07 -0000
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Dealer stripe

I've been thinking about you fender problem, and had a question for 
you. Is the entire fender destroyed, or could you be able to salvage 
the rear portion of the side stripe w/the DMC logo on it? The reason 
I ask is 3M makes a product very simular to the side stripe, only 
it's an anti-skid strip that you apply in strips to steps in 
stairwells. Colorwise I'm pretty sure it's identical, although the 
texture is more "rubbery". You might wat to look into it.

-Robert
vin 6585



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Tom Niemczewski" <tomcio_at_dml_j...> wrote:
> Please help!!
> As some of you might remember I was involved in an accident a few 
months
> ago. My left front fender was crushed and is not repairable. I got 
a new
> fender now but the problem is that my D has a wide dealer stripe. I 
can't
> remove the stripe from the old fender and I don't want to remove it 
from the
> whole car. So, here's my question to you: does anyone have a dealer 
stripe
> for the left front fender ONLY? I don't need the whole thing 
(mainly because
> they are just way too expensive), just for one fender.
> Please email me directly at tomcio'AT'jamesik.com
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom Niemczewski
> vin 6298
> tomcio_at_dml_j...




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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 04:04:57 -0000
From: "Scot Stern" <SGSKBM_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Gas Lines From Fuel Pump

My original gas lines were leaking.  I was lucky to find them before 
a fire broke out.  The gas ran down the frame towards the engine and 
I assume sooner or later it could have ended in a disaster!

Anyway, I replaced the line with ones that I bought at Auto Zone and 
I have lived happly ever after, until now.  I am wondering if they 
really do require special lines that were manufactured by a Delorean 
supplier.  The presure cannot be that great in the system, but in any 
case if it requires a $10.00 part I am not adverse to spending the 
money to aquire it.  I am just wondering why it would require special 
gas lines.

Scot Stern
6452




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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 23:30:38 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: lasagna heat shield

Walt, You know that there are several things that can make the car run rich. 
02 sensor, Lambda unit, improper adjustments and so on. DMCJOE could make a 
book on it. As far as the sheild. Dirk, at De Lorean Stainless Steel Products 
sells them for $45.00. I was thing about bring over a bunch of his products  
and seeing if any one wanted it. My new heat sheild lasted about two years 
before it started coming apart. 
John 



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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:44:46
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: lasagna heat shield

PJ Grady www.pjgrady.com sells new CERAMIC HEATSHIELDS for the DeLorean. I 
have one on now on my DeLorean and it works as it should. Highly 
recommended! And definitely more environmental-friendly than asbestos. Even 
looks great when seeing it under the car.

PS! The only thing to be careful about is the installation, if you are not 
careful you may damage the ceramic heatshield.

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 06759


>From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
>To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
>Subject: [DML] lasagna heat shield
>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 22:44:35 -0500
>
>What causes a muffler heat shield to wrinkle and warp to the point that it
>gets cut up in the belts and pulleys?
>
>The owner thinks this is due the effects of moisture from storing the car
>for so many years under a carport.  He thinks it got wet and stayed wet for
>too long.  I'm wondering if this could have been caused by the exhaust
>system from over-heating.  The car has 19K miles on it and the owner says
>that the muffler has been replaced because it 'went bad'.
>
>He quit driving the car several months ago because it was 'flooding'.
>
>Based on this information, is it likely that the engine was running too 
>rich
>and over-heated the muffler?  And if this is the case, what can cause an
>engine to do this?  A bad control pressure regulator?
>
>Also, what is the best replacement for this heat shield?  Are the
>replacements available made of asbestos?
>
>Thanks,
>Walt    Tampa, FL
>
>
>
>Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
>www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:33:44 -0000
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: lasagna heat shield

Be very careful in handling the heat shield. It is made of asbestoes 
and should be treated with care. Do not breath in the fibers and try 
to minimize creating any. It sounds like the mixture is very rich, see 
if the muffler is glowing red. To adjust you remove the tamper plug on 
the mixture unit and adjust the setscrew in the mixture unit. You 
really need an emission analyzer and exhaust port set-up to do it 
right, a minor adjustment has a large effect. To replace the shield 
most Delorean venders have a non-asbestoes shield which looks just 
like the origional. Be sure to dispose of the old one properly it is 
asbestoes and there are strict rules regarding it. I replaced mine and 
for a while the new one emitted a terrible odor until it finally was 
gone. Mechanically it is pretty easy to replace but I would first 
adjust the fuel system so as not to burn up the new shield.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> What causes a muffler heat shield to wrinkle and warp to the point 
that it
> gets cut up in the belts and pulleys?
> 
> The owner thinks this is due the effects of moisture from storing 
the car
> for so many years under a carport.  He thinks it got wet and stayed 
wet for
> too long.  I'm wondering if this could have been caused by the 
exhaust
> system from over-heating.  The car has 19K miles on it and the owner 
says
> that the muffler has been replaced because it 'went bad'.
> 
> He quit driving the car several months ago because it was 
'flooding'.
> 
> Based on this information, is it likely that the engine was running 
too rich
> and over-heated the muffler?  And if this is the case, what can 
cause an
> engine to do this?  A bad control pressure regulator?
> 
> Also, what is the best replacement for this heat shield?  Are the
> replacements available made of asbestos?
> 
> Thanks,
> Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 00:16:20 -0500
From: "Rob Hook" <robhook_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Tire torque settings

> It depends on how good you are at "feeling" 70 ft-lbs torque. They
> all need to be tight enough, but not too tight, and all kind of the
> same so as not to warp the rotors.

One of my father's old SAE mechanic's books tells of a test (probably done
by a tool manufacturer) where 20 mechanics, each with 10+ years of
experience, were asked to tighten a nut down to about 50 ft-lbs of torque.
None of them were able to get within 25% or something like that with any
regularity.  And these were professional mechanics.  The moral of the story
is, don't try to "feel" torque settings.

On the other side of the coin, I noticed that the rotors on the front (I
think) of my DeLorean had a type of "tower" coming off the rotor onto which
the lug bolts are mounted.  Wouldn't this virtually nullify the chances of
overtightening warping the rotor?  Thoughts?

In the end, it's probably better to be safe than sorry and I ALWAYS tighten
my lugs with a torque wrench now.  The rotors on my car were warped when I
bought it and I don't want to go through THAT again!

--Rob Hook




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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 04:59:54 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Re: interesting question/John Delorean signiture

Well if it is true...then he forgot to sign mine! My roof lining is 
off and the only thing I saw was the key code for my car. 

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, Horseman of PA <the_horseman_pa_at_dml_y...> 
wrote:
> I received a little info and was hopeing to share this
> with the group and also find out if it is true or not.
> I was told that John Delorean signed and dated every
> car under the roof lining. Does anyone know if this is
> indeed true? the date is also sapose to corespond to
> the day it rolled of the assembly line. this comes
> from someone local to me who claims to know John
> personally. is this true or not? or am i being
> suckered?
> 
> Wayne
> 
> no VIN... yet!
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
> http://photos.yahoo.com/




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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 00:23:25 EST
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: interesting question/John Delorean signiture

In a message dated 12/29/00 9:45:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
the_horseman_pa_at_dml_yahoo.com writes:

<< I was told that John Delorean signed and dated every
 car under the roof lining. Does anyone know if this is
 indeed true? the date is also sapose to corespond to
 the day it rolled of the assembly line. >>

Writing under the roof linings is common... jokingly referred to as cave 
paintings.  Most of it is fairly undecipherable.  John has autographed car 
parts for owners, but couldn't have signed every car... he was rarely at the 
plant.  

-Wayne A. Ernst
vin 11174
The New DeLorean Manuals Project



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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 07:40:10 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Re: interesting question/John Delorean signiture

Well, perhaps there is some mixed truth behind your "friend's" theory. 
 As previous posts have pointed out, there is no way JZD could have 
ever signed every car built.  However, if you remove the headliners, 
you do find a lot of scribble up on those doors!  I removed all of my 
headliners 2 weeks ago so I can recover them this winter.  Looking at 
the inside of my door I find a TON of marker writings, but nothing I 
can really make out.  All I recognize is a date and my VIN number.  
Many owners have reported finding strange writing on the insides of 
the stainless panels in thier D's  These can, and have been found on 
every panel on the car.  I was hoping to find some on my doors and/or 
front fenders, but my car turned up pretty clean.  I am guessing this 
is where that person may have gotten confused, or is just completely 
blowing you off and just happened to stumble onto a "half-truth".

Jim Reeve
-6960
Minnesota




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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 04:11:11 EST
From: billschaferabn_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Temperatures

Can anyone on the list tell me the temperatures that a "D" muffler has to 
tolerate when the car is running.  I believe it to be in the range of 500 
degrees but would like to know for sure what the hottest temperatures the 
engine puts out.

Bill 



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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 12:58:43
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Interior light - dimming!

[MODERATOR'S NOTE: When posting please prudently trim the quoted material to keep the size of the posts reasonable. This message has been modified to cut off excessive material (mostly message footers)]


Just adding some info - when I spoke of dimming I had in mind FADING.
So that when the lights go on or off it FADES slowly ON of OFF. It's a very 
cool effect and is currently standard on BMW's afaik.

Happy New Year!
Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 06759


>From: "Jack & Virginia Stiefel" <stiefel_at_dml_minalco.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
>To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [DML] Interior light - dimming!
>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 00:15:17 -0500
>
>Uh.... I believe the DeLorean already does that, at least in reverse.  Mine
>stay on for anywhere from 10-20 seconds when I close the door.  When
>opening, however, they just come on.
>
>
>Jack & Virginia Stiefel
>'81 DeLorean Vin 03461 August  1981 Build NYS Lic: 1981 DMC
>'97 Red BMW Z3 Convertible 2.8 6 Cyl -- not the baby 4
>'98 Red Dodge Ram Quad Cab Lariat
>'01 Black PT Cruiser Limited w/ Flames
>Visit us at www.sacketmansion.com
>

<snip>




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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 00:23:26 EST
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Water deflector for fuel pump

Had a brainstorm while working on my fuel pump.  The rain drain at the center 
of the windshield louver drains directly onto the fuel pump hoses.  A well 
know design boo boo.  I was wondering if anyone has tried wrapping a section 
of wire loom around the fuel hoses.  You know, that split, corrugated tubing 
that people put over their wiring harnesses.  I figure the water would 
deflect off of the ridges before it can trickle down onto the top of the pump 
cover.  After all, the pump isn't quite under the drain, just the hoses. 
Couldn't hurt. Anybody tried this?  Any thoughts?

-Wayne
vin 11174



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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 23:10:45 -0800
From: "Lance B. Bowman" <spaceace_at_dml_qx.net>
Subject: Possible buy:)

Owners, list members,

 I hate to bug you guys yet again (I asked about DMC Houston a few weeks
ago), but I've found a DeLorean that could be a possible buy for me.

 My girlfriend (bless her soul for finding this one!) told me about a
DeLorean that has a (possibly) warped frame (?). I've seen pictures of a
DeLorean frame, and it's not the typical automobile frame the rest of
the world is used to seeing. It looks to me like it would take a pretty
serious hit to warp it. We drove by the guy's house, and there it was,
under a car cover, and she assured me it hadn't been moved in quite
awhile, and she never sees it on the road. <Anyway...>

 I haven't contacted the gentleman about the car yet, but I wanted to
ask those in-the-know about any experiences they might have had with
this subject.

 Thanks in advance!

Lance B. Bowman





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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:43:54 -0000
From: "Howard S. Smith" <TeacupFox_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: DeLorean(s) for sale

Please review message 13426 & 13427 -- After reviewing recent 
messages sorry it doesn't have 30,000 miles, but believe me, she runs 
just fine--reason for sadly selling, see my message--oh yes, and the 
other DeLorean is the Lee Seiler commissioned gold edition model, 
again see 13426 -- If you or someone you 
know wants one ready to go, and not have to work on it--this is it--
however, I do understand that alot of the enjoyment in owning a D is 
the "fixing", sharing stories, and the comraderie.  The price is 
always negotiable, I paid $20,300 for it and 
put about $1,800 in.  It is a crime for it to sit. (I bought it in 
April, 1999 because I owned and operated a horse trailer 
manufacturing business which exclusively built type 304 stainless 
steel horse trailers. At trade shows the D was to attract people to 
our booth sitting along side of our trailers on display. But I closed 
the business, but kept the car.  Actually, everytime I look at the 
car it reminds me of the business I had to shut down, a bad memory.)  
Soooo, we already own a Corvette, the wife has a pickup truck to pull 
her horse trailer, and an SUV, and I have a "company" truck to 
drive,now working for someone else.  It is insane to have five 
vehicles!  Needless to say the D and the Corvette enjoy the garage 
while the other three sit outside. I really want to sell it privately 
and not over an auction.  Hope to hear from someone out there. I 
check the message board occasionally, please leave one and I will 
respond.  Thanks.  Have a Happy New Year everyone!  




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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:06:29 -0500
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Water deflector for fuel pump

My car came with a CD jewel case installed between the fuel pump boot and
the drain port under the windshield.  We all had quite a laugh when we
discovered it at a Delorean meet.  That fell out on its own and I replaced
it with a large piece of plastic I cut from a gallon jug of laundry bleach.
This is big, flexible and very effective.

The corrugated tubing sounds like a good idea but probably is unnecessary if
the boot cap is on tight and clamped around the hoses.  But on second
thought, one of my original fuel lines got cut (or cracked) from rubbing on
a sharp edge of the fiberglass underbody; although, it was probably ready to
crack from age anyway.  That corrugated tubing might help protect the new
one.

I ran my car out of gas last night so that I can get the tank cleaned out.
The bracket, clamp and fuel return pipe rusted pretty bad and left debris in
the tank.  When the fuel pump starts sucking air, it sounds like a dirt
dauber building a nest.  Either that or someone drinking a wasp milk shake.
My fuel pump is noisy anyway.  I plan on replacing it today as well.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 16
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:46:28 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Water deflector for fuel pump

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, deloreanernst_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Had a brainstorm while working on my fuel pump.  The rain drain at 
the center 
> of the windshield louver drains directly onto the fuel pump hoses.  
A well 
> know design boo boo.  I was wondering if anyone has tried wrapping 
a section 
> of wire loom around the fuel hoses.  

There are a couple of potential fixes for this. I recall seeing in an 
old magazine where someone fashined a little shield that went over 
the drain hole, open at the bottom, to direct the water away from the 
pump (more like straight down). I saw something similar done on a car 
(not mine!) where someone had jammed a CD jewel-box cover behind the 
fuel hoses as a deflector. If you do this, and park where tree leaves 
will go down the windshield drain, be prepared to clean it out often 
or get wet feet, though. 

Dave Swingle




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Message: 17
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:06:21 -0000
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Gas Lines From Fuel Pump

Be careful in replacing parts of the fuel lines and fittings. Some of 
the lines hold over 100 psi pressure! Try to use correct fittings and 
lines for permanant repairs. Call a Delorean vender for the correct 
parts and instructions on how to do it, they will be very helpful over 
the phone and don't compromise your safety, once the fire starts it is 
too late to do it right. Be careful working around the fuel system, 
too many cars of all types have burnt because of fuel fires 
especially fuel injected ones.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 



-- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Scot Stern" <SGSKBM_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> My original gas lines were leaking.  I was lucky to find them before 
> a fire broke out.  The gas ran down the frame towards the engine and 
> I assume sooner or later it could have ended in a disaster!
> 
> Anyway, I replaced the line with ones that I bought at Auto Zone and 
> I have lived happly ever after, until now.  I am wondering if they 
> really do require special lines that were manufactured by a Delorean 
> supplier.  The presure cannot be that great in the system, but in 
any 
> case if it requires a $10.00 part I am not adverse to spending the 
> money to aquire it.  I am just wondering why it would require 
special 
> gas lines.
> 
> Scot Stern
> 6452




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Message: 18
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:58:35 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Gas Lines From Fuel Pump

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Scot Stern" <SGSKBM_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> My original gas lines were leaking.  . . .
> 
> Anyway, I replaced the line with ones that I bought at Auto Zone 
and 
>The presure cannot be that great in the system. . .

Au contraire!! The pressure is VERY high in the system - 80 PSI on 
the high side according to the DMC tech manual. The fuel pump 
pressure is used to open the injectors in this mechanical system. It 
takes about 50 PSI to "pop" the injector open. The return line 
pressure is lower, maybe 45 PSI. In fact the spec for pressure 10 
minutes after shutoff is still 25 psi (accumulator test!). 

The original hoses are teflon hose, covered with a nylon braid (like 
the stainless braid on your clutch line) and then a rubber outer 
cover. This is designed as high-pressure, fuel-tolerant hose. Modern 
injected cars with electronic injection systems do not use such high 
pressure since the injectors are opened electronically rather than by 
pressure. 

There are "generic" (for example Aeroquip-brand) equivalents for this 
hose, but however you buy it, it is not cheap hose. If you just 
bought regular gas line like you'd put on a carbureted Ford, it is 
designed to take maybe 10 PSI. If you get it from the DMC places it 
will be the right stuff. 

Dave Swingle




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Message: 19
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:53:52 -0000
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: DMC Reliability, relative to a Vega :-)

[MODERATOR'S NOTE: This message was trimmed to avoid excessive quoting. Please trim posts prudently.]


Imho the reliability of the Delorean or any car is directly related
to 
the interest of the owner in caring for the car and the competance of 
the mechanic who works on it ( sometimes the same person) with 
competancy most important. I have seen some "creative" repairs on all 
types of cars by "competant" mechanics which then causes the owner to 
not only have to still repair the car correctly but all of the 
previous work must be found and undone. On most old cars there have 
been several sets of "hands" or different mechanics sometimes trying 
to fix the same trouble with each one adding to the problem usually 
by not repairing it correctly. Ask any Delorean sevice center and
they 
can tell you of their favorite "horror stories" of how owners spent 
large amounts of money and had nothing but trouble until it was 
brought into their shop and propery diagnosed and repaired. Any well 
maintained car serviced by knowledgable "technicians" will be 
trouble-free, Deloreans being no exception. 
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 ASE certified Master Automotive Technician


<snip>

> >
> > When John Delorean created the DMC-12,
> > I believe that reliability was similar to the Chevy Vega's.
> > Most DMC-12's have less than 50,000 miles because it is difficult
> > to keep the DMC-12 running continuously for a long period of time
> > to accumulate 50,000 miles.
> >



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Message: 20
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 14:16:34 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: John Delorean and Reliability.

Here are the facts.

The Chevy Vega engine was all aluminum including the piston liners, this
caused an excessive amount of cylinder wall ware resulting in oil being
pushed past the piston rings resulting in excessive oil burning. I owned a
1974 Vega; at approximately 35k miles it was burning a quart of oil per day.

The DeLorean PRV-6 is constructed with cast iron cylinder liners resulting
in engine life in excess of 200k miles.

"We're here to help you"
Seasons Greetings!

DMC Joe / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: (TEMPORARY)<www.geocities.com/dmcjoe>

----- Original Message -----
From: Sternbach, William [IT] <William_Sternbach_at_dml_smb.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 1:50 PM
Subject: [DML] John Delorean and Reliability.


> [MODERATOR'S NOTE: DeLorean reliability has been discussed on the list in
the past. It's been a while since it was last dicussed, so I'm letting this
thread start again for the newcomers. Please focus reply postings on
facts -- the usual moderating filters will be in place.]
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I just wanted to make a polite comment about John Delorean and
Reliability.
>
> When John Delorean was an executive at General Motors,
> he introduced a new car to compete with the foreign economy cars.
> It was the Chevy Vega.  It had a 2.3 Liter Overhead Cam 4 Cylinder engine.
> My sister bought a Chevy Vega brand new.
>
> She constantly had problems with it and after 1 year, she traded it in
> to the dealer and she took a big financial loss.
> The Chevy Vega was GM's least reliable car of all time.
> Most Chevy Vega's never lasted long enough to make it to 50,000 miles.
>
> When John Delorean created the DMC-12,
> I believe that reliability was similar to the Chevy Vega's.
> Most DMC-12's have less than 50,000 miles because it is difficult
> to keep the DMC-12 running continuously for a long period of time
> to accumulate 50,000 miles.
>
> I am a fan of John Delorean and the DMC-12's,
> but I hope it is ok if I make this polite comment that cars that he
designed
> have poor reliability.
>
> It seems the best DMC-12's to buy are the ones with over 30,000 miles,
> because most of the problems have already been fixed by the previous
> owner.  Another member of this list told me that if you buy one of these
> "fixed" deloreans, you can expect troublefree operation for a long time.
>
> What do you think?





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Message: 21
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 15:34:46 EST
From: rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: John DeLorean & reliability

In response to John Sternbach:
There are already a number of much more experienced people than myself that 
have said what I had to say, however:
1.
I suggest you buy some of the books about the DeLorean to get a better 
understanding of how the car came about. (Go to alibris.com, click on "More 
search options", type in DeLorean  in the "Any word(s)" block and you will 
find an ample listing of available used books. None are still in print.)
2.
Anybody with a rudimentary understanding of design and manufacturing start up 
of a complex and for its day sophisticated product is amazed over how John 
DeLorean pulled it off in such a short time! If the DeLorean had had a normal 
life cycle with several design versions, properly tested, it would 
undoubtedly have become a truly fantastic car. (Compare it for example to a 
Porsche 911 with a design cycle of almost 40 years, with a large number of 
design improvements. Is that a more reliable car today? (I have a 1971 911T 
and that one is certainly not any more reliable than the D!) 
3.
There are a few people out there that bought their D new and still use it!
Most of us today are probably the 2nd, 3rd or whatever owner and still love 
the car, all for their own reasons.
4.
Who buys a 20 year old car in the first place? Yes, some are probably just 
infatuated, but most appear to be genuinely interested in owning and caring 
for a truly unique car.
5.
Is it a "super car"? Opinions may differ, but in my opinion it is.
In the January 2001 issue of Sports Car there is an article titled "Saleen 
Supercar Shocker". Yes, it looks snazzier than the DeLorean, but there is a 
resemblance in lines as well as design innovations and yes, it does have a 
550 HP engine, however, it IS advertised as a Daily Driver -- with a price 
tag of $375,000! Will it be more reliable than the DeLorean? Will any number 
of them be around and driven 20 years from now? With spare parts and 
technical support available? Not likely!
6.
Comparing a DeLorean to a Chevy Vega is both an anachromism and ludicrous!  
(I bought a Vega for my wife years ago and that clap trap tincan was by far 
the worst car I have ever owned!)
7.
I have had a number of different sports cars over the years and raced and 
rallied some of them. All were fun but finicky, one way or another. None were 
particularily comfortable. I still have a couple that I will part with 
without hesistation, if the offer is reasonable. My DeLorean I'll keep!

Roger
VIN 1074




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 22
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 14:33:35 EST
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: interesting question/John Delorean signiture

JZD did sign many cars at the show in Cleveland this summer. He was very nice 
to everyone who asked. As for signing at the factory, no. 
As to the question of D's not being designed correctly. Take a look around 
see any 81 Dodge Colts or many other makes from the early 80's still on the 
road? Only if the owners have taken the time and effort to keep them going. 
My D has over 100K and still runs strong. Have I had to replace parts, yes, 
is it worth it, yes? 
As this list grows we at times repeat the same question, followed by the same 
answers. Please if you are new to the list take the time to go thru the old 
issues and you will find many of your questions already answered. I'm not 
flaming anyone as we were all new to this auto at one time. Do your 
background research and if you still have a question post it. You will almost 
always get an answer.
Bruce Battles
Vin# 06569


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 23
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 13:51:01 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: interesting question/John Delorean signiture

Not True!

"We're here to help you"
Seasons Greetings!

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: (TEMPORARY)<www.geocities.com/dmcjoe>
  
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Horseman of PA <the_horseman_pa_at_dml_yahoo.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 8:46 PM
Subject: [DML] interesting question/John Delorean signiture


> I received a little info and was hopeing to share this
> with the group and also find out if it is true or not.
> I was told that John Delorean signed and dated every
> car under the roof lining. Does anyone know if this is
> indeed true? the date is also sapose to corespond to
> the day it rolled of the assembly line. this comes
> from someone local to me who claims to know John
> personally. is this true or not? or am i being
> suckered?
> 
> Wayne
> 
> no VIN... yet!
oderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> 




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Message: 24
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:14:05 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Re: Possible buy:)

Warped frame? The only way that a car would have a "warped" frame is 
that it would had to have been in a serious accident like you said. 
Maybe the warped part of the frame is the crumple tubes up front? 
They are very weak and the factory issued special steel 
reinforcment plates to be placed on the crumple tubes where the 
stabilizer bar bolts to it. Without those reinforcments the crumple 
tubes "oil cans" out, collapses, warps...whatever you want to call it 
from the force of the stabilizer bars. If you want to look under the 
front of the car at the crumple tubes (the radiator is mounted ontop 
of it) and inspect. If it is the crumple tubes that are damaged you 
can go either way:

1. PJ Grady sells replacemnt ones. You would have to cut the old one 
off the frame and weld the new on in place with a jig to line it up 
perfectly.
2. You can check to see if your local autobody shop can repir it by 
straightening it out.

Either way make sure those brackets are installed afterwards.

If it happens to be that there is something wrong withe the frame 
itself, I would suggest staying away from the car unless you 
like "big projects".

Steve

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Lance B. Bowman" <spaceace_at_dml_q...> wrote:
> Owners, list members,
> 
>  >SNIP<> 
>  My girlfriend (bless her soul for finding this one!) told me about 
a
> DeLorean that has a (possibly) warped frame (?). I've seen pictures 
of a
> DeLorean frame, and it's not the typical automobile frame the rest 
of
> the world is used to seeing. It looks to me like it would take a 
pretty
> serious hit to warp it. We drove by the guy's house, and there it 
was,
> under a car cover, and she assured me it hadn't been moved in quite
> awhile, and she never sees it on the road. <Anyway...>
> 
>  I haven't contacted the gentleman about the car yet, but I wanted 
to
> ask those in-the-know about any experiences they might have had with
> this subject.
> 
>  Thanks in advance!
> 
> Lance B. Bowman




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Message: 25
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 14:28:08 EST
From: sjaeger01_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Turn signal.

Can someone explain how the turn signal cancel mechanism works? Is it 
accomplished by the white plastic collar that is on the steering column and 
indexes to the steering wheel. It has a nub on one side of it but not the 
other. There is no part number for this collar that I can find.
Thanks Steve



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Message: 26
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 12:24:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Horseman of PA <the_horseman_pa_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: A Special Thanks to Everyone, Happy New year!

I am blown away by all the responces I received from
my question (interesting question/John Delorean
signature) I believe people who sread these rumors are
the ones responcible for alot of the hazey legends
behind the Delorean, being I don't own one yet I rely
on people like yourselves for accurate information and
a guideline to when I do buy my own "D". Rumors and
here say often lead to more questions than any of us
have the time for. I would just like to publically
thank all of you who responded. This message board has
been a great help for me to aquire knowledge of this
car from those of you who own them and live with them
every day. Your 2 cents helps those of us who arn't so
lucky. This message board and all the great people
involved with it have really helped everyone out, and
it's great to know that there is a place to come to
post question and problems with like minded
individuals to aquire positive, true and accurate
answers. I believe the DeLorean is the greatest car to
ever roll off an assembly line. it's craftmenship and
overall design reflect in it's still being around
today 20 years after it's development. If anyone would
like to argue the fact that the DeLorean is a "not
well designed car" I dare you to go out and find
another car or company who created sutch a car first
time out and ontop of it constructed it souly of
stainless steel. I want to thank everyone for there
help and espeically to the guys running this board who
without them all of us would be in the dark, Thank you
again Everyone! Happy New Year! I look forward to
getting this mutch closer to owning my own "D" this
year. Have a great holiday!

Wayne Heath
No VIN as of yet!

"Drive Stainless"


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