Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 2:07 AM
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 53

Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:

There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: seat wear
From: "Doc" <>

2. Re: Rear facia assembly
From: "Robert Bell" <>

3. Re: aluminum blocks, and "metal disappearing act"
From: scottmueller<>

4. A Day with Doctor Delorean
From: Mark Noeltner <>

5. Re: seat wear
From: "Greg Bell" <>

6. Re: seat wear
From: Mike Substelny <>

7. Re: Fuel gauge points straight up
From: Mike Substelny <>

8. Re: 1981 DMC for sale
From: "Richard Petrie" <>

9. Seat Wear
From: "Murray Fisher" <>

10. Re: seat wear
From: "Robert Bell" <>

11. Any DeLorean's in the Gulf?
From: "Hisham Khalifa" <>

12. URGENT!!! Virus warning to DMLer's

13. Re: seat wear

14. Re: seat wear

15. Lighting system upgrades
From: James Espey <>

16. Re: Door rubs t panel
From: "Robert Rooney" <>

17. DITCU unit?
From: "Dave Stragand" <>

18. Re: Autocrossing the D (& tire report)
From: "Robert Rooney" <>

19. The NEW Delorean Poster w/BONUS - NOW AVAILABLE!
From: "MrCopies" <>

20. The virus is dead

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 05:37:22 -0400
From: "Doc" <>
Subject: RE: seat wear

It is hard to determine a cars mileage by the seat wear that a car has. Seat
wear can be attributed by poor care of the leather seats. I have seen
several low mileage cars where the seats were in poor condition. My Delorean
now has 63,000 miles on it and the original seats have no signs of any wear
on them.

Robert Starling


Message: 2
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 05:38:44 -0500
From: "Robert Bell" <>
Subject: Re: Rear facia assembly

Bill I have one, in the need of paint, but other than that, its in good
Oh, and some of the bolts at the bottom are snaped off, per normal.
Contact me if your intrested.
----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 10:27 PM
Subject: [DML] Rear facia assembly

> Group,
>   I am in need of a used rear facia to fit my 82 D. My old facia has a
> separation tear on the passenger side just below the bottom of the black
> bumper section. I am hoping someone out there has a good spare one or
> there is a parts only D that might have a slightly used facia in good
> condition. Please email me at the above address. Thanks.
> Bill
> Vin#11596
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:


Message: 3
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 04:41:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: scottmueller<>
Subject: Re: aluminum blocks, and "metal disappearing act"

Steve Wynne at DMC Houston gave a talk about electrolosis during a tech seminar 
during the Snowmass or Los Angeles show, I do not recall which show it was.  
Electrolosis is an issue, especially if you keep an onboard trickle charger on without 
disconnecting the battery.

James Espey, perhapes you can get Steve to summarize his presentation so it can be 
put in the archieves.

Scott Mueller

------- Original Copy -------
>Subject: [DML] aluminum blocks, and "metal disappearing act"
>Date: 05/16/2000 10:20 PM
>From: "Nate!!" <>

>After looking all over my motor... I realized that it has no Magnesium plug
>in it... what nice electrolosis is eating my PRV motor? wait... maybe I don't
>want to know.

Get 100% FREE Internet Access from Freei.Net.  100% FREE, 100% Anonymous, 100% Jam Packed with features.  Check us out at


Message: 4
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 06:47:14 -0500
From: Mark Noeltner <>
Subject: A Day with Doctor Delorean

The Mid-State DeLorean Club presents - "A Day with Doctor Delorean", aka...
Don Steger of the DeLorean Motor Center in Garden Grove, California.

Don Steger, owner of the DeLorean Motor Center in Garden Grove, California
will be flying in as our special guest for a one day DeLorean Technical
Seminar Event and General BS Session with our club. This event will be held
on Sunday, May 21st from 9:00 am to 5:00 pm at the Holiday Inn located at
Interstate 270 and Illinois Route 111 just north of Granite City, IL (Metro
St. Louis Area).

This event is scheduled to be a Question & Answer type of event with Don
supplying his expertise on all things DeLorean. Don will be happy to talk
about anything and everything related to the care and feeding of the
DeLorean automobile, including proper maintenance and upkeep, tuning,
troubleshooting, repairs, modifications, go fast stuff and anything else
you can think of.

Don will also be available to look over owners cars and offer comments and
suggestions and information on items to keep your car in tip top condition.

Remember, the Cleveland DeLorean Show is only 3 weeks after this event.
This will be the perfect opportunity for you to go over your car and make
sure it's ready for the drive and show in Cleveland. You are going to
Cleveland, aren't you!!!

This is a **FREE** event. Visit  under
Events, for more details and contact info. 

Mark Noeltner
Webmaster - Mid-State DeLorean Club


Message: 5
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:40:44 -0400
From: "Greg Bell" <>
Subject: Re: seat wear

Ok, I'm lost. I thought the lambda counter counted miles close to the same
as the odometer. I was obviously wrong according to this post. Could
someone tell me the conversion factor. Better yet, what does a lambda
reading of 078 mean in miles assuming it hasn't been reset?


At 05:56 PM 5/16/00 +0000, you wrote:
  I looked at 
>the Lambda counter and it reads 027 which is about 8,100 miles.  but 
>I wouldn't think that after 8,100miles there would be wear on the 
>seat.  I think they (former owner) reset the lambda counter to 000 
>after it hit 100 giving the Delorean 38,100 miles, 


Message: 6
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:11:05 -0400
From: Mike Substelny <>
Subject: Re: seat wear

Erik Geerdink wrote:

> Generaly, after how many miles would a Delorean seat start to show
> wear?

Without more information, this question is nearly impossible to answer.

The seats are leather, and leather can wear out with age unless proper
care is taken.  This becomes much worse if the car is in the sun, but
even some DeLoreans in museums have less than perfect leather.  A year
out in the sun, or inside under very high humidity, can destroy leather
unless precautions are taken.

> I ask this because a Delorean is for sale at an import car lot who
> hates deloreans, and they don't like me very much now.  They say it
> has 4500 miles on it, but there is wear on the seats.

You need to describe the wear better.  Is the leather scuffed?  Cracked?
Faded?  Also, how is the binnacle & dashboard?

I suggest you find a better clue that the wear on the seats.  Look at the
pedals, for instance, or maybe the steering wheel.  Does the car have its
original Goodyears?  How is the paint on the power window switches?

> I looked at the Lambda counter and it reads 027 which is about 8,100
> miles. butI wouldn't think that after 8,100miles there would be wear on
> the seat.

I could easily believe that this car has either 4,500 miles or 8,100
miles on it, since most owners never drive their DeLoreans.  There are
plenty of DeLorean odometers that have undercounted mileage due to angle
drive failures, but I believe those will also have undercounted lambda

> maybe I'm going to far and I should not think about it so hard, but I
> really want to prove these people wrong.

Chill out, Erik.  You are probably overreacting.  Go back and make nice -
nice with the dealer, so when someone eventually buys the DeLorean you
can find out about it and get the new owner to join your local club.

- Mike Substelny
VIN 01280, 7 years


Message: 7
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:21:20 -0400
From: Mike Substelny <>
Subject: Re: Fuel gauge points straight up

J wrote:

> I just got my car back after months of being in the shop, and now
> the fuel gauge just points straight up. Since among the things replaced
> were the fuel pump and throttle cable, I think its most likely that
> they knocked a wire loose somewhere. The ones going to the sender
> seem ok.

I will bet that your problem is in the sender itself, unless you have a
Tankzilla.  The original senders are notorious for causing exactly the
symptoms your describe.  I suggest you remove the sender check it out before
looking for trouble under your dash.  The sender is very easy to remove, much
easier than dangling upside-down under your dashboard.

Turn the car on but don't start it.  Have a friend watch your fuel gauge while
you are holding the sender.  Shake it and turn it upside-down, moving the
float up and down the shaft.  If the gauge moves, then the problem is not
under your dash.

- Mike Substelny
VIN 01280, 7 years


Message: 8
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:49:25 CDT
From: "Richard Petrie" <>
Subject: Re: 1981 DMC for sale

>So for those who have done this.. what are we looking at for restoring this 
>poor D? 5-10k??  I'm a little uneasy about buying something that has not 
>been given the attention it deserves but maybe it's worth the investment?!

-Richard P

You Wrote:
>If anyone is looking for a car that needs restoration look at this one on 
>ebay _at_dml_ $.4.5k needs new RH fender and door, black manual, early 81(GAS 

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at


Message: 9
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:33:55 -0700
From: "Murray Fisher" <>
Subject: Seat Wear

    Re Erics query about seat wear and knowing how many miles on a car.  I think in a nutshell, it is very difficult even for an expert to know.  My brother was an auto dealer for 25 years and I sat in with him visiting a lot while he was "working".  I sure got an insight into the crooked things people pull re mileage and condition....and dealers too!!  
    Even with "laws" against it, speedos are still set back.....with our D's the Lambda counter can also be set back.   Of course many do not know that gimmick.  Your  brake pedal pad can be worn but you can buy a new one for a few bucks.   Your carpet can be worn, but you can replace it..or it might have been covered with a pad since new.  The original tires on our cars could be a clue....most low mileage cars would have the original tires and if very low mileage, the measured tread depth would tell you something.   Of course they might have been out of balance or alignment or driven very hard and worn down faster.   MY tires are old and the rubber hard, but they measure and LOOK new! 
    I one time purchased a brand X car with 110K miles on it.  It looked and drove like new.  It had been driven by a Caterpillar Tractor rep who drove from coast to coast and piled up the mileage, but no one ever sat in any of the other seats and it was serviced regularly and well.  I have owned 8 Lincolns and on some put 140K miles with almost NO work done on them......the last two have very low mileage and I have had quite a few things done to them (under the warrantee, thank goodness). 
    You just have to take ALL things into consideration and make the best judgment you can.   I even had an expert mechanic check out a car for me years ago and he pronounced it in very good just about fell apart all the rest of the time I owned the Lemon.   So much for the experts!  But to give credit where it is due...NO ONE knows what will happen tomorrow!
    Re MY particular DeLorean....supposedly it had 3443 miles on it. (original owner)    I have had good luck with it but who knows for sure.   The lamba counter checked out okay.....I went to the service station where the owner had it serviced and asked if they thought the mileage was accurate.   I asked next door neighbors (without telling him), if they had seen the car since it was new and if they thought he drove it much!   He was a car collector and had two garages and a quonset full of restored cars which he alternately I figure the mileage was probably correct.
    Of course this brings up the age old question of whether a nice high mileage car is a better buy than a nice almost zero mileage car as to upkeep and wear and tear.    I always think how many times those pistons have gone up and down in 90K miles versus 2K miles, not to mention all the other components....We all know that ANY rubber component deteriorates with age and the D  is no exception...I have done nothing to my car in over three years now but fully expect to at some point and purchased it with that in mind.
    Bottom line is,  you never know for sure.
    FWIW Dept.

Vin: 05962 Lic: DMC-XII
Washington State             

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 10
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:36:08 -0500
From: "Robert Bell" <>
Subject: Re: seat wear

Ok, sombody please enlighten us on how to read the lambda counter, I
purchased a D with very low miles showing, but everything else points to
higher milage.
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Bell <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] seat wear

> Ok, I'm lost. I thought the lambda counter counted miles close to the same
> as the odometer. I was obviously wrong according to this post. Could
> someone tell me the conversion factor. Better yet, what does a lambda
> reading of 078 mean in miles assuming it hasn't been reset?
> Thanks,
> Greg
> 10054
> At 05:56 PM 5/16/00 +0000, you wrote:
>   I looked at
> >the Lambda counter and it reads 027 which is about 8,100 miles.  but
> >I wouldn't think that after 8,100miles there would be wear on the
> >seat.  I think they (former owner) reset the lambda counter to 000
> >after it hit 100 giving the Delorean 38,100 miles,
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:


Message: 11
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 23:34:12 +0300
From: "Hisham Khalifa" <>
Subject: Any DeLorean's in the Gulf?

Hello everybody...

Any idea on the number of DeLoreans to be found in the Gulf? I haven't seen any, but I hear from time to time that several were bought during the early 80's, and some have traded hands through individual sales or exotic car dealerships in Dubai, etc. I'm looking to buy one as long as it's in the Gulf and I can check it out.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 12
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 22:48:41 EDT
Subject: URGENT!!! Virus warning to DMLer's

Fellow DMLer's,

Do not download any photos sent to you from Ken Koncelik. He has been hit by 
a trojan virus. The virus is It comes as a mime.exe file. 

I downloaded the photos that came from Ken's email and found the virus. I 
called Ken and he found the virus on his machine. He has aked me to write the 
DML and let others know about this situation.  I know that this is not the 
usual forum to discuss on the DML, however, I feel this is a danger to anyone 
that knows Ken. The virus is a password stealing type. This is how I recieved 
the photos download from Ken. Ken DID NOT send these files!! This file steals 
your password after stealing your address book. That is how I got the email. 
Someone is using his email after getting his password. The reason I warn you 
is in the email it says "I have just made some new photos for you to see", it 
also says that he will be posting these in the vault. 

I only download stuff from people I know, so I was not concerned because it can from what I thought was Ken. Again Ken is not sending out any photos, just someone trying to steal passwords. I have contacted Dave S. to let him know about this. Ken has asked me to contact the DML until he gets his system cleaned up. He is changing his password and will post an all clear to the DML as soon as he gets his computer clean. Sorry to use the DML for this message, but someone is trying to mess up lots of people that know Ken, and possibly the DML, so dont be taken in. 

We all know that with the show coming up next month, that Ken has many email friends so be on your guard. Any questions can be sent to  me at Ken will hopefully be back online in the next  couple of days. I have read this email to Ken via the phone and he is ok with  sending it to the DML. 

Bruce Battles
Vin 06569


Added note from Dave Swingle: Although we normally discourage posting virus notes to the list, this one seemed particuarly insidious since it is apparently customized toward people on the DeLorean Mailing list. Bruce and Ken discussed this notice with me on the phone before posting it. 

Dave Swingle


Message: 13
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:29:31 EDT
Subject: Re: seat wear

In a message dated 5/17/00 9:12:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 

<< Ok, sombody please enlighten us on how to read the lambda counter, I
 purchased a D with very low miles showing, but everything else points to
 higher milage.
 Bob >>

    The lamda service counter counts up to 100.  The 100 means 100% of the 
life of the Lambda oxygen sensor in the exhaust pipe.  The lambda oxygen 
sensor is supposed to be replaced every 30,000 miles.  So every 1% on the 
service counter equals 300 miles on your car.  



Message: 14
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:55:56 EDT
Subject: Re: seat wear

I would like to share an extreme example of the mileage showing on a car 
versus how many miles the car may actually have.  One particular D I looked 
at about 3 years ago while looking for one to purchase was a very early 81, 
VIN 812 I think.  There were 39 miles showing on the odometer and the owner 
claimed the car probably had about 30,000 miles on it, and personally I think 
it was probably the top end of the 30,000 mile range.  But once again, who 
really knows?!  Funny thing was, he had the parts to repair the speedometer; 
he just never installed it!  Needless to say, it hadn't been driven regularly 
for several years.  

Darren Decker


Message: 15
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:06:48 -0600
From: James Espey <>
Subject: Lighting system upgrades

For nearly a year now we have offered an upgraded, high performance 
lighting system for the DeLorean. While still retaining the stock 
appearance, this upgrade can be done with or without a simple wiring 
modification. As such, returning to a stock headlight setup is easily 
accomplished if desired.

The kit comes complete with four headlights, and the bulbs for each. 
The standard bulb with these kits are 60/55W Xenon boosted for the 
high beam and 55W Xenon boosted for the dipped beam. Higher wattage 
bulbs can be fitted, but are NOT recommended as the stock wiring 
harness could be damaged. In any case, the Xenon boosted bulbs offer 
SIGNIFICANTLY greater light output, as well as being much more "pure" 
white light. More light = more visibility = SAFETY.

One of the neat features of this setup is what is known as "city 
lights". Common in Europe, the "city light" is a low wattage bulb 
that also fits in the same headlight as the primary bulb, but comes 
on when the parking lights are turned on. What use is that, you ask? 
As the name "city lights" implies, it's primary benefit is in the 
city, where the streets are well lit, and headlights are not 
necessarily required. Sort of like a 'daytime running light", it's 
also useful in the sense that the low wattage bulb causes less strain 
on the electrical system (ever see your voltmeter needle drop when 
you use turn your headlights on?). Rather than drive with just your 
parking lights on and risk getting pulled over, the city lights serve 
a useful purpose. The bulbs for the city lights are also included in 
this kit.

The connection of this additional light is where the wiring 
modification comes in, a simple, clip-on jumper from the existing 
wiring harness in the DeLorean. Full instructions are included, price 
is $229.

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company
Houston, Texas


On a personal note, I installed this kit on my personal DeLorean 
before I sold it and was consistently amazed at the improvement. In 
fact, I liked it so much I special ordered a similar kit for the 
vehicle that replaced the DeLorean and have never regretted it. List 
member Bill Swilley has this setup on his car as well, and I hope 
that if he sees this he'll offer his comments as well.


Message: 16
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 02:20:18 -0000
From: "Robert Rooney" <>
Subject: Re: Door rubs t panel

One thing that you can try is to pull the rubber seal up off the 
sill. Place it back on, but only put it back down far enough where it 
is barely in place, but cannot move. Then close the door, and see if 
that cures your problem. It's possible that the rubber seals were 
pushed down too far, or maybe even the door itself is too high. 
Either way, this will let the door determine how far down to push the 
rubber to create an even seal. If the rubber in that area looks like 
it has been compressed, you could even try rotating the seal to see 
if that works. If the rubber is torn in that area, you could also use 
instant gasket maker to rebuilt it, but you'll need the stuff that 
cures in 1 minute to do that. All in all, if you only have leaks 
under high pressure water, but not anything else under lower pressure 
such as rain or a garden hose, you may just want to leave it. I hope 
that helps, but if not let me know, & I'll see how else I can help.

vin 6585

--- In, deloreanernst_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hi-
> My passenger side door has a small scrape mark about an inch long 
near the 
> front corner of the door top.  When the door opens fully, it clears 
the t 
> panel as it pivots down, then touches the edge of the t panel.  I 
see the 
> door edge that rubs actually sits a little higher there, maybe 1/8 
inch or 
> more.  The car also leaks here slightly, under high pressure at the 
car wash. 
>  How can I adjust this?  Loosen, slide door,  and retighten door 
bolts?  Any 
> tips?
> -Wayne
> "Living the dream!"
> 11174


Message: 17
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 22:48:35 -0400
From: "Dave Stragand" <>
Subject: DITCU unit?

Hi All,

If anyone has a turbo installed, and is familiar with the Bosch/Volvo
Digital Timing Control Unit (DITCU) addition for retarding the timing
under boost, please drop me a line.  I have a few basic questions that
could really help me out...

Thanks in Advance,

-Dave Stragand
Vin #05927


Message: 18
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 03:15:05 -0000
From: "Robert Rooney" <>
Subject: Re: Autocrossing the D (& tire report)

I've been running the Yoko's on our car for the past month, and they 
have handled great! They only "problem" has been that the tires do 
have to warm up a little before you can really take full advantage of 
them. When the tires are cold, the rear end of the car has a tendancy 
to slide durring quick corners, ie: making a left turn durring a hard 
acceleration with quick correcting. But once the tires have heated, 
they become VERY sticky. I've only skid twice while braking hard, and 
both times were over 40 mph. If going slower, the car stops quickly 
w/o ANY skidding. While I haven't gotten the chance to use them on 
wet roads, they perform very well on gravel, dirt, clay & really bad 
roads (route 166, Lake Mead shore line _at_dml_ 50 mph). But I have hit some 
large puddles, and can tell you that the Yoko's really do push the 
water out of your way, I've had water splash above my roof line. At 
high speeds the tires offer a great deal of stability. On several 
occasions we've had the car up to 114 mph on the highway, and there 
is no unusual shaking. It's a very comfortable, yet secure feeling 
ride. The night we brought the car home, they alowed the car to 
quickly manuver around a drunk driver w/o any hard leaning or 
traction loss. Thus we were able to avoid an accident. I highly 
reccomend the Yokohama AVS intermediate tires for the DeLorean. Yes I 
know that they're "V" rated, and most of us will never reach 149 mph, 
but the extra money that you pay is not for the speed. The money goes 
not only for the improved handling & suspension, but the overall fun 
& safety factors of the ride as well.

vin 6585


Message: 19
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:14:55 -0500
From: "MrCopies" <>
Subject: The NEW Delorean Poster w/BONUS - NOW AVAILABLE!

Hi Gang!

Well it's been almost 6 months in the making....but it's finally ready to be
shipped.  It's the NEW high-gloss Delorean poster.  It's really been a
terrific project to work on.

Take a peak at:

We've also set up a new secure online store (click on the link entitled
"Gift Garage") at which will allow you to purchase the
poster (and/or stencil kits) with any major credit card.

Thanks again for the great support!

P.S.  As a bonus - we're also including a really cool acrylic keychain with
every poster order.


Message: 20
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 01:20:52 EDT
Subject: The virus is dead

if anyone has received an e-mail from me in the last day or so you need to 
check your computer for the trojan virus (what version I do not know) both 
Mcafee and Norton (latest updates) will catch it.  It took me a while but I 
did find the virus and it was new enough that I needed the 5/15 update of 
Norton to kill it.  I do run antivirus on my system so I thought I was 
protected.  Mcafee also needed an update to catch it.

This virus only attaches to AOL users.  If you have something else you may be 
a carrier but the virus will not do anything in your computer.  It will wait 
til you send to an AOL member then attach itself to that file.

I have been down all day.

I talked to both AOL and Norton.  The strain of virus constantly mutates and 
it steels the password and some of your old mails then creates a message and 
off it goes.
AOL is trying to trace where the password was sent to. 

what I saw was mime file dated 5/16
mi27 file dated 5/16
mi57file dated 5/16
and mi27.jpg file dated 5/16
and a wonderful message about pictures I sent to myself 
(same note you got)
It also atached to my uninstall.exe file which is why it took me so long to 
get rid if it.
I had to manually delete it since the antivirus software wouldn't.

If you are an AOL subscriber you know you have it if when you sign on and 
enter your password and it then asks you to reenter the password but when you 
type it in the little *** do not show up.   That is its signature. Plus it 
will lock up if you try to do anything.

I WILL NOT be sending any pictures for at least a week just as a precaution 
and I will never send an exe or a mime file period.  Please let me know if 
you get anything from me Thursday or Friday because I WILL NOT send anything 
for two days period.

Show is doing fine I am still taking late registrations

Thanks for your patience this has been an unpleasant experience for me.
hopefully not too many of you have received the e-mail

Again I did not send it.

Thanks Bruce and the DML.