From: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 8:29 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 84

Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: engine removal pics
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

2. Re: New DMC Engine Shake down Cruise
From: "Lynn Metz" <metzlynn_at_dml_hotmail.com>

3. Re: Camshaft
From: "BRUCE BENSON" <delornut_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

4. Re: Camshaft
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com

5. Re: Re: Carpet Color
From: iznodmad_at_dml_aol.com

6. Re: Camshaft
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

7. Re: Camshaft
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

8. Re: Carpet Color (the real story)
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

9. RE: part needed
From: Darryl Tinnerstet <darryl_at_dml_techline.com>

10. Gray Carpeting needed & antenna support bracket
From: billschaferabn_at_dml_aol.com

11. Re: Stainless Cleaner
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

12. Re: The Resurrection of Vixen Continues...
From: "Dave Stragand" <dave.stragand_at_dml_ketchum.com>

13. Re: Re: My Delorean Stopped Dead in the Water
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

14. Re: Re: Carpet Color
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

15. Re: axle seals/yokes
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>

16. Re: '00 DeLorean?
From: "Erik Geerdink" <delorean502_at_dml_excite.com>

17. Re: '00 DeLorean?
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

18. RE: Registration DeLorean Car Show
From: "David B. Hill" <dhill_at_dml_hillresearch.com>

19. Interior Color
From: John Yeoman <theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com>

20. Re: Larry Flint and DMC
From: drunk_at_dml_thegame.com

21. Driving Tour Directions Uploaded
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

22. Luggage Rack Box
From: delorean31_at_dml_aol.com

23. Re: Carpet Color (the real story)
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

24. Re: '00 DeLorean?
From: Ann & Ed Thompson <rapparivarat_at_dml_erols.com>

25. Re: Registration DeLorean Car Show
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 22:33:29 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: engine removal pics

Erik,

Saw the pictures of your engine extrication; keep up the good work and good
luck.
I thought you might like to see what your engine looked like when it was
new.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/3755/service.html

BTW: why have you pulled the engine?

"We're here to help you"; See you in Cleveland!

DMC Joe / De Lorean Services / <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: <www.deloreanservices.com>
.

----- Original Message -----
From: Erik Geerdink <delorean502_at_dml_excite.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 9:34 AM
Subject: [DML] engine removal pics


> Hi,
> I just got some pictures of the removal of my transmission and engine
> yesterday.  I uploaded them into the vault so people can see what it
> looks like.  The pictures are not the best of quality, but they get
> the point across pretty well.  Thank you Micah for helping me, and
> 4512 out!!
>
> http://www.egroups.com/files/dmcnews/Engine+Removal/
>
> Enjoy
>
> Erik Geerdink
> 4512....sadly, it won't be at Cleveland.  Look at the pics to see why.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>





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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 19:38:45 PDT
From: "Lynn Metz" <metzlynn_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New DMC Engine Shake down Cruise

If I remember right, it was James "CRASH" Espey for a while!!!

Brian
16584

  Have you
>ever seen James drive, Gus?  (heh, heh)  Not to worry, son.  He's driven
>mine several times with no permanent damage.  So, while in Cleveland, be
>sure and check out DMC and Gus's car.
>
>Bill Swilley
>VIN: 4730
>TX LIC: 81 DMC

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 21:54:46 -0500
From: "BRUCE BENSON" <delornut_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Camshaft

I recently had a rough idle problem although when under way the engine ran
great. I went through all the usual tests for vacuum leaks and such but
finally just took a long screw driver and pushed every injector down into
it's
 socket. Low and behold when I hit one that seemed to pop down a bit more
than the rest the idle improved dramatically.  I did have the fuel
distributor and air intake off recently to access the clutch slave cyl.
Apparently I must have pulled a bit too hard on the fuel lines and pulled
one injector out of it's socket.

Bruce Benson

We are trying to isolate a rough-running problem in our car. We
> suspect the injection system but have tried everything in our ability
> with no success. >




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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 22:44:37 EDT
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Camshaft

I think I remember hearing that the camshaft problem was fixed a few years 
before the engines were made for the DeLorean so the engines in the DeLoreans 
shouldn't have that problem.  Anyone who knows about this please correct me 
if I am wrong I don't want to send out wrong info.  But if I'm right...hope I 
helped ya  :)  See everyone in Cleveland but without good ol' 1852 (sniffle 
sniffle)  :(   Darn restorations take a while to do.

Later,
Nick
1852



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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 23:02:40 EDT
From: iznodmad_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Carpet Color

Of course there are 1983 DMC's with completely black interiors.  The only 
suggestion of a rare combination that I am aware of are the 1982 automatic 
cars w/ the black interior as mentioned in the last statistical analysis of 
the DeLorean production chronology.  

On a side note, I am greatly looking forward to Cleveland and was wondering 
if anyone will be traveling through NC on their way to the show.  I remember 
one list member from SC wondering the same thing, and I tried contacting him, 
but got no response.  Anyone that would want to travel together, just let me 
know.  

Regards,
Darren Decker
#5000......ready for Cleveland.



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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 03:32:53 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Camshaft

Hmmm - sounds like you are working with a Volvo mechanic. I'm sure 
DMCJoe will chime in here too. 

There was a history of cam problems with this engine in Volvos, but 
it was cured prior to putting them in DeLoreans. This is probably NOT 
your problem. This should be able to be diagnosed by pulling off the 
cam covers with the engine in the car and taking some measurements. 
The Volvo-application engine is similar but not generally considered 
a bolt-in replacement due to differences in oil pan design/shape. 
Brand-new DMC engines are readily available, as well as parts-car 
engines. It's best, and usually cheaper, to use the right one. 

Dave

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Chris C" <petleech_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> The local shop has told us that these engines are very prone to 
> camshaft failure because of a poor lubrication design. Our car has 
> 82k on it. At what mileage do the camshafts start to wear badly and 
> what are the symptoms? [- - - -]
> to simply buy a good used VOLVO B28 engine? Is the engine from th 
> volvo car identical to the DMC engine and does it mate directly to 
> the DMC gearbox?




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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 23:27:24 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Camshaft

INCORRECT!

This is a common rumor that is associated with the PRV-6
(Peugeot-Renault-Volvo) The fact is that the pre 1980 and early 80 PRV's
suffered from "soft cams" and wore out prematurely. This engine was
primarily used in the Volvo 260 GLE series cars. Poorly maintained cars
could see valve problems as early as 60k miles. And so began
the reputation of "soft cams".

In early 1980, after seeing excessive premature camshaft failure, the PRV
factory
modified the cams to a hardened alloy. All DeLorean engines have the
hardened cams with better oiling. DeLorean camshaft failure up to 100k miles
is less
than 1%. A properly maintained PRV should see 150k to 200k miles before
camshaft ware becomes evident.

It is unlikely your rough running problem is related to the cams unless
someone has incorrectly adjusted the valve lash.

The Volvo version has several differences from the DeLorean version and is
not directly interchangeable.

"We're here to help you"; See you in Cleveland!

DMC Joe / De Lorean Services / <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: <www.deloreanservices.com>
.

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris C <petleech_at_dml_aol.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 9:32 PM
Subject: [DML] Camshaft


> We are trying to isolate a rough-running problem in our car. We
> suspect the injection system but have tried everything in our ability
> with no success. We normally do all the work ourselves
> but a bad back problem has forced me to give my car to a local shop.
> The local shop has told us that these engines are very prone to
> camshaft failure because of a poor lubrication design. Our car has
> 82k on it. At what mileage do the camshafts start to wear badly and
> what are the symptoms? We did a compression test before buying the
> car and all readings were between 155 and 165psi. If the camshafts
> are bad are they difficult to replace and is there a solution to the
> lubrication problem? If this is a very costly procedure is it better
> to simply buy a good used VOLVO B28 engine? Is the engine from th
> volvo car identical to the DMC engine and does it mate directly to
> the DMC gearbox?
>
>
>
>
>
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>






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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 22:42:46 -0600
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: Carpet Color (the real story)

Up until VIN 10574 there were only two different carpet colors, dark 
grey (considered 'black' and used in the cars with black seats, 
dashes, etc) and light grey (used in the cars with grey seats, 
dashes, etc). After 10574 they went to an all light grey for the 
carpets. This later carpet has a "smooth" finish to it as opposed to 
the two earlier carpets. I was told by a former DMC employee that 
this was done to lighten up the interiors on the cars with black 
seats, dashes, etc. The one "oops" of that plan is that the bottom of 
the door panels have a narrow strip of carpet on them. On a late 
(post-10754) black interior car, the door panels are black vinyl with 
a narrow strip of grey carpet and vinyl.

Download the interior components chart from our website for the most 
comprehensive listing of interior parts/part numbers.

http://www.delorean.com/interior.pdf

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company
Houston, Texas

281/568-9573
800/USA-DMC1
http://www.usadmc.com

>Do any 1983 DeLoreans have completely black interiors?
>
>John
>#16822 w/ dual color interior




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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 20:48:59 -0800
From: Darryl Tinnerstet <darryl_at_dml_techline.com>
Subject: RE: part needed

Joe - you could have just called me. The correct part number, by the way, is
110089.  That's the LH round one, correct?  How many would you like?  Need
the rubber bushing with it?  Used, $19.95, plus $3.20 postage.

-- 
Darryl Tinnerstet
Specialty Automotive
4 LaBelle Lane
McCleary, WA 98557
PH: 360-495-4640
FAX: 360-495-4680




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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 01:14:51 EDT
From: billschaferabn_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Gray Carpeting needed & antenna support bracket

Gang,

   I'm in need of some gray carpeting especially for the passenger side of 
11596. I would like to replace both driver and passenger side but must 
replace the passenger side. Does anyone out there have a good to above 
average D carpet in your garage or basement? Please email me at the above 
address.

Also I have a power anntenna and mounting bracket in my D. Mine hasn't worked 
since I bought it so I took a close look at it today and found out someone 
took the fuse out of the fuse holder. I direct wired it and it works. But 
before I put this into regular use has there been any problems with the power 
antenna's. Was this disconnected for a recurring problem or was it just blown 
and not replaced?

Last question. My antenna mounting bracket seems less steady than then I 
think it should. I noticed two mounting points. One near the top that bolts 
towards the rear facia and one about 4 inches down that connects to the area 
near the driver rearquarter pannel. Are these the only two anchor points to 
hold the bracket and antenna steady?

Bill
Vin#11596 



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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 06:34:13 EDT
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Stainless Cleaner

In a message dated 6/7/00 6:04:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
ttanaka504_at_dml_aol.com writes:

<< By the way, I use Armor All 
 for any black plastic parts on my Delorean.  >>

List-

Haven't some owners had really bad reactions to Armor-All... or am I confused?

-Wayne
"Living the dream"
11174



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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 11:17:17 -0400
From: "Dave Stragand" <dave.stragand_at_dml_ketchum.com>
Subject: Re: The Resurrection of Vixen Continues...

Patrick Cowan wrote:

> Vixen is lookiing good...I cant believe that thng is driveable though

That makes two of us.  =)

> But what will you do when vixen is done??
> get another one and restore it?

I think that could be fun.  I have a line on another disassembled one already... but I already have 4 cars, and a 1-car garage.  I've been promising my poor Chevy (now in underground storage) that I'd start her restoration soon.  She just turned 21 last Valentine's Day, and it's her turn next.  After that, it's hard to say...

-Dave




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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 06:34:08 EDT
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: My Delorean Stopped Dead in the Water

In a message dated 6/7/00 10:35:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com writes:

<< Saw a  car last week where it was wire nuts and extension-cord wire, that 
 was probably a LITTLE too crude, but it did work.  >>

Some of the wiring in the D is high voltage, and any wiring around a gas pump 
ought to be done correctly.  Especially on an electrically underengineered 
car. I don't think saving $8. is worth it when it comes to such things.  
(i.e. risking a fire or gas spewing out.  Somebody replaced my fuel line at 
the pump with regular gas hose and pipe clamps, apparently unaware it a 
PRESSURIZED line.  Not a good idea- needs a special hose.  I replaced 'em.

-Wayne
11174



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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 07:21:04 EDT
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Re: Carpet Color



    The two tone interior, silver carpets black leather trim, looks great. As 
a matter of fact, Rob Grady has an 1983 origional car, First Place Concours 
d' Elegance winner with this interior. From What I understand the two tone 
interior, like the early 1981 DeLorean's are very rare and desirable.

    Have you ever noticed the texture of the different types of carpet? The 
later cars have a better quality(?) carpets. The "pile" seems closer together 
and overall looks astechically more attractive.



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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 06:52:35 -0500
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>
Subject: Re: axle seals/yokes

> The axles yokes and boots are the same as on the Porsche  and ZF transmissions.
> When we put the 4 speed automatic in to the 97 Delorean, these just bolted up to
> the near transmission.

bob





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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:46:27 -0000
From: "Erik Geerdink" <delorean502_at_dml_excite.com>
Subject: Re: '00 DeLorean?

I don't think Houston would ever do this.  The closest thing to a '00 
Delorean is a totally refurbished Delorean from DMC Houston.  They 
even come with Warrantys.

Erik Geerdink
seeya in Cleveland...minus my Delorean :(




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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 09:31:37 -0400
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Re: '00 DeLorean?

Robert Greenhaw wrote:

> Since DMC Houston owns the huge parts warehouse, could/would
> they build a DeLorean for someone from the ground up if a person
> commissioned them to?

You should ask them!  I expect that the answer is YES.  With enough
money, anything is possible.

When Kapac owned the warehouse they sometimes gave tours.  They showed us
a partially finished DeLorean that they were slowly building from spare
parts.  Remember, this was a warehouse, not a factory, so they did not
have the fixtures, tools, and machinery to do things efficiently.  The
car had to be built by hand in "spare" time.  Ask Dave Stragand what that
is like.

The labor to assemble a DeLorean by hand would probably cost twenty times
as much as the parts.

- Mike Substelny
VIN 01280, 7 years




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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 08:47:54 -0500
From: "David B. Hill" <dhill_at_dml_hillresearch.com>
Subject: RE: Registration DeLorean Car Show

Ken:
Any updated info on room availability? I have been so busy purchasing a
Delorean . . . finally . . . that I never got around to booking a room for
me and my son. If HI and Hampton (?) are full, what is next best
alternative? I'm not price sensitive. Alas, my DMC will not be delivered to
Houston until after the show, on Monday. Thanks for any info you have.
David B. Hill


-----Original Message-----
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com [mailto:kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 9:55 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Registration DeLorean Car Show


This is the last call for registrations for the <A
HREF="http://deloreancarshow.com">DeLorean Car Show "Year 200</A>" featuring
Eastern Regional DeLorean Run 10
The latest date you can mail a registration for the show is Saturday and
still have a chance to get registered.  Mail has been taking on average two
to three business days and I am leaving for the show early Thursday morning.

Registrations have continued to come in and we could surpass the 250 people
mark.
We will be close to 100 cars.

An agenda sheet and a reminder to which events you signed  up for will be
handed out with the T-shirts on Thursday at Shooters if you are there or you
can pick up your packet Friday when you register at the Holiday Inn.  If you
haven't gotten your T-shirt at Shooters you can get them and any remaining
packets on Friday evening at the Crawford or Saturday Morning at the
registration table.

Your Rock and roll Hall of Fame tickets and Science Center tickets will also
be in the Packet.  The Goodtime III is just a check in.  I will have all the
tickets.  Times will be posted again in the registration packets.

Look forward to seeing you there.  Who knows maybe we will do it again.

Ken






Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 19
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 09:01:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Yeoman <theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Interior Color

Are the headliners black on the black interior D's?
Mine are grey, but I have a dual color.

John
#16822 w/dual color int.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com



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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 14:06:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: drunk_at_dml_thegame.com
Subject: Re: Larry Flint and DMC


As I remember, the movie about Larry Flynt did not mention anything about the Delorean issue. I can not say that I remember it NOT being in there, but I would imagine I would have noticed if the magic D word was
brought up.

I did not know Flynt was the one who leaked the tape. Can somebody provide more details on this?

-Brad
(Still dreaming)

---------------------------------------------------
Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com



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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 14:54:34 -0400
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Driving Tour Directions Uploaded

I just uploaded the directions for the 'Nobody Gets Lost Driving Tour
and Rock & Roll Road Rally' to the DML vault.  To download the file, go
to the DML page on eGroups and click on "Files."  The file is named
driving_tour.xls and it is located in the root directory, not the
Cleveland2000 subdirectory.

The Excel spreadsheet includes longitude & latitude for GPS, such as it
is.  We jotted down the coordinates but never went back to test them.
The data looks good; I plotted the coordinates and the XY graph looks
roughly like my map, but I am suspicious of a few points on Leg One.  If
someone wants to enter this data into a programmable GPS computer I
would be fascinated to see it lead them through the route.

The coordinates are in arc minutes and arc seconds only.  For degrees,
you may use this data from the Census Bureau's U.S. Gazetteer:
Cleveland Location: 41.47970 N, 81.67851 W

Note that no one needs to print out these directions, as we will supply
color coded copies to all Tour participants at departure.  This preview
is for those who want to use GPS or simply enjoy studying the route.

- Mike Substelny




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Message: 22
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:45:01 EDT
From: delorean31_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Luggage Rack Box

Well, I bought a Thule Weekender model Luggage Box and mounted it on the 
DeLorean Luggage rack.  It is a fairly good size.  55.1" long and 38"wide.  
Looks pretty good.  Has 13 cu ft of cargo space so I could probably carry 
enough items and luggage for a very extended trip.  Thanks to everyone who 
suggested items to use with the rack.  I will probably have the box on my car 
in Cleveland Thursday and Friday and remove ot for the show so those that 
asked me to let them know which solution I settled on can take a look.  See 
you all in Cleveland!

Gary Gore
Activities Director
DeLorean Mid Atlantic
VIN 3360
NJ Plate: OUTTIME



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Message: 23
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 15:52:30 -0600
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: Carpet Color (the real story)

Correction - 10578, sorry.

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company
Houston, Texas

281/568-9573
800/USA-DMC1
http://www.usadmc.com

>Up until VIN 10574 there were only two different carpet colors, dark




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Message: 24
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 18:53:52 -0400
From: Ann & Ed Thompson <rapparivarat_at_dml_erols.com>
Subject: Re: '00 DeLorean?

I've heard that a new "standard" Chevrolet or Ford built out of a dealership
parts department would cost in excess of $1,000,000 (unconfirmed).  From the
prices I've seen for "replacement parts" I believe that.  Given that, I imagine
a complete "new" DeLorean built from "new" parts, even if possible, would easily
cost in excess of that amount.  But if you have a spare mil or so, go for it! 
Otherwise, contact me for a "nearly new" DeLorean being offered for considerably
less.  You won't be disappointed!

Ed Thompson (#6419 since 1982, still for sale)
Tag: WIDGET

> Mike Substelny wrote:
> 
> Robert Greenhaw wrote:
> 
> > Since DMC Houston owns the huge parts warehouse, could/would
> > they build a DeLorean for someone from the ground up if a person
> > commissioned them to?
> 
> You should ask them!  I expect that the answer is YES.  With enough
> money, anything is possible.



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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:04:37 EDT
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Registration DeLorean Car Show

last I checked both have rooms
Dave swingle just gave up 2 rooms about an hour ago so call the hampton.

I think you will get in one or the other with no problem

Ken

keep me informed



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