From: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 351
Date: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 10:31 PM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!
From: "Tyler Graves" <graves_14_at_dml_hotmail.com>

2. New Poll
From: "Tom Watkins watbmv_at_dml_megalink.net" <watbmv_at_dml_megalink.net>

3. Re: Re: NCT's in Concours
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

4. DMC and BTTF (Was: Good point, Roger)
From: Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>

5. dealer/QAC changed parts
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

6. Fair Warning....
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

7. Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

8. Colling system hoses
From: "JamesRG" <jamesrg_at_dml_btinternet.com>

9. Re. Hurt D for sale, please save!
From: "Vin#5462" <dmc12_at_dml_btinternet.com>

10. Re: John Delorean and Reliability.
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

11. spedometer = estimateometer
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>

12. RE: Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!
From: "Jack & Virginia Stiefel" <stiefel_at_dml_minalco.com>

13. Re: Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

14. Re: DMC and BTTF (Was: Good point, Roger)
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>

15. Re: John Delorean and Reliability.
From: Mark Fearer <mfearer_at_dml_mail.fearernet.com>

16. Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!
From: Dad <dsontos_at_dml_sybercom.net>

17. Re: Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>

18. Re: Colling system hoses
From: "Rob Hook" <robhook_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

19. Squeak and motor oil (was Colling system hoses)
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

20. Re: spedometer = estimateometer
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

21. Re: spedometer = estimateometer
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>

22. Re: John Delorean and Reliability.
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>

23. DMC, BTTF, and other cars compared to the D.
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

24. Re: Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!
From: "Steven Lawrence" <vipertv_at_dml_cableone.net>

25. Re: Auto Zone Gas Lines
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 13:40:10 -0000
From: "Tyler Graves" <graves_14_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!

"At what point does a DeLorean become salvage? " comes to mind. 
Without further photos it would be hard to tell, but it would be a 
nice project car for someone. What do you guys think? Would be nice 
to see if there was a gas flap ;-)

>  http://www.octagonauto.com/images/delorenrear.jpg
>    DMC Wannabe




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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 13:27:20 -0000
From: "Tom Watkins watbmv_at_dml_megalink.net" <watbmv_at_dml_megalink.net>
Subject: New Poll

I'm not sure if this Poll has been conducted before but....go to 
http://www.eGroups.com/surveys/dmcnews?id=479443  to tally up what 
number owner you are for your car!

Tom
#005732  MT




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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 09:26:43 -0500
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: NCT's in Concours

Knut Grimsrud wrote:

> My inclination would be to award the 4 points according to these three
> categories as 2 points for correct tires, 1 point for wear, and 1 point for
> preparation. My feelings for this weighting is due to the degree of
> difficulty involved in getting good condition correct tires versus the
> difficulty of preparing them, etc. Thus, assuming the tires were all
> prepared properly for show, a worn set of NCT's would rate a score of
> approximately 3, while a new set of Yokahamas would rate about 2.

I agree with Knut's assessment, but with a proviso.  There is a difference
between "worn" tires that are simply not new and "seriously worn" tires that
might pose a safety hazard.

For me, (assuming good preparation) like new NTCs will always get a 4.
Slightly worn NTCs will get a 3.5 or 3.0.
New Yokahamas might get a 2.0.
Unsafe NTCs would get a 2.0 or 1.5.

The moral: if you can't field good NTCs, you would be better off making your
DeLorean safe by installing Yokahamas.

I can think of two things that would make me stop and think for a long time.
First, what if an owner had perfect NTCs on one side and perfect Yokahamas on
the other side?  Obviously that is inferior to the car with 4 perfect NTCs, but
should it be better or worse than a car with 4 perfect Yokahamas?  Concours
philosophy tells me that mixing tires is bad, but attempting to preserve
originality is good.  This would give me a huge headache.  I would probably lean
toward being tough on that car, but afterwards I would lose sleep for a month.

Second, what about Goodyear Eagle GT IIs like Ken Montgomery has?  I believe
they are closer to the original tires than Yokahamas in both construction and
appearance.  I might give a perfect set of Eagle GT IIs a half point advantage
over equal quality Yokahamas, if that situation ever arose.  What does everyone
else think?

Based on the experience of judging the truely fine concours cars in Saint Louis
and Cleveland, I know that there are still some excellent condition NTCs out
there.  Anyone who is serious about competition will be able to find a set.

- Mike Substelny
Experienced judge of undercarriage (including tires)
and engine compartment (incuding alternator).




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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 09:54:35 -0500
From: Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>
Subject: DMC and BTTF (Was: Good point, Roger)

Play down?  I dont think this is the case at all!

I enjoy the BTTF movies, I even watched BTTF1 on TV this weekend.

Most DeLorean owners are just tired of every 3rd moron asking "Where is the flux
capacitor", or "What happens when you hit 88MPH"... As if they are some sort of
genius that they just came up with this original joke..

I guess it is better than the cocaine jokes..

Either way, all you (I) can do is smile an nod.  But, it just gets old!


RJRavalli_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

> This is an excellent point, so then one has to ask: Why is the DeLorean
> in this position?  I think the clear answer is the BTTF movies, a
> connection that many DeLorean owners may try to play down, but
> ulimately I don't think you really can.  In the end, DeLorean owners
> may owe more thanks to Speilberg and Zemeckis than to John
> DeLorean (and I'm sure I'm not the first one to make that point.)



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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 11:13:11 -0500
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: dealer/QAC changed parts

Mike brings up an interesting point, that while I don't think has any 
significant relevance to the Millennium concours, I think some of you 
may find it interesting nonetheless.

A few years back, maybe when De Lorean Motor Company first held the 
open house in Columbus (Nov 1997), I was rummaging through one of the 
many boxes of "stuff" that exists there and came across a box of 
damaged rear view mirrors. Most of which were marked with a VIN and a 
date, I was told that they were mirrors that were removed at the 
QAC's for being damaged - who knows why they were kept for all these 
years, but the fact that they are now a technically "unavailable" 
item may explain it.

In any case, I found a mirror with VIN 1280 written on it (don't 
remember the date) which happens to be Mike Substelny's car. I'm 
pretty sure he bought the mirror and has it in his collection of 
DeLorean "stuff".

We also have a very large box of dealer warranty return Craig radios 
and Ducellier alternators, most of which are marked with VINs, dates 
and dealers. Might be interesting to see if we can find a Craig radio 
with VIN 1280 marked on it!

James



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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 17:38:47 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Fair Warning....

[MODERATOR'S NOTE: I don't want this to expand into a prolonged discussion about Harbor Freight. It's information worth passing on to subscribers but this one post pretty much says it all.]



To all list memebers,
I know this is not directly D related but in one way or another it 
is. Most people that are on this list are either restoring a D, 
fixing one or does there own maintence on their D. I just wanted to 
let everyone that if you order anything from HarborFreight.com (tools 
or supplies) be careful. 

I placed an order last week and it got all messed up. I ordered about 
10 items from them and I asked them if they were all getting shipped 
at the same time and if they were all getting shipped using the same 
shipper, I was assured that everything was in stock and it was all 
getting shipped UPS and I would recieve everything in 5-7 buissness 
days. I called them about 4 other times (for various reasons) and 
before hanging up I asked them the same question about the shipping 
on that order. Well the 4th time I called I got a different story, 
this is right after my order was processed and on it's way out the 
door (to late to make any changes). I was told that only one item was 
being shipped UPS (5-7 days) and all the other items were broken up 
into several boxes (to keep the weight down) and shipped using the 
Post office (almost 3 weeks ship time!!). When I called their 
customer support line the story I got was this: Their sales team does 
not have the same computer system as the Customer support team does 
where it gives them detailed information like shipping. Also they 
cannot determine the exact shipping untill the order is processed by 
the warehouse. But get this...after the order is processed, you can't 
make ANY changes at all, including the shipping! If you order any 
supplies or tools from them be careful and call back frequently to 
check on the status of your order. So as of now I will be recieving 
one item in 5-7 days and the other remaining 9 items I will be 
reciving randomly over the course of 3 weeks since they are all 
packed in 5 different boxes. Also I was told that is I wanted 
guarenteed delivery through UPS or FedEx I would have to pay 
additional fees which I would have gladly have done if I was informed 
about this AS I was placing the order and not led to be belived that 
it was being shipped UPS ground.

I told one of my friends about this expieirence and he said he had 
one even worse. He ordered an Acetylene torch kit from them and he 
said that after using it for 1 day, the gas line ruptured (luckily it 
didn't catch fire and no one got hurt). He said he was lucky that he 
was using it outside at the time and that the tanks were far enough 
away for a buddy of his to shut the gas off quickly before it ignited.

Anybody else have a bad expierience with HarborFreight.com or are my 
friend and I the only ones?

Sorry for using the list for this.

Steve
P.S I also cancled a small order with them before it was processed 
(same day) and later found out while I was on the phone with them 
about my big order that the small order was processed and ready to be 
shipped. Go figure, I guess I should have called back a second time 
to confirm the canceled order also.




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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 12:08:22 -0500
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!

Let's talk for a minute about what it would take to save this car, 
and if it's "worth it".

This assumes that all parts are bought new...
Right quarter panel 997.49
rear valance 52.41
air inlet 14.31
right quarter glass 87.91
right tail light 191.26
side lamp assy  25.60
impact absorber 468.28
rear closing panel 323.40
Rear fascia 642.85
engine cover 253.25
engine cover stay assembly 49.41
engine cover grilles, clips, retaining strips 411.95
louvre 483.86
louvre grilles 92.42

So far we're at a little under $4100 - that's all the big stuff, NOT 
COUNTING fiberglass work - you can probably pick up a used rear body 
half or quarter for the repair for $500-$1000. Louvre latch, engine 
cover latch, struts, miscellaneous bits and pieces and trim and 
fasteners might add another $500-$750. And don't forget labor for all 
this - De Lorean Motor Company's labor rate is $62.50 per hour, 100 
hours labor all totalled, easily. This "off the cuff" estimate 
assumes no frame damage, no damage to the t-panel, passenger door, 
rear glass, tire/wheel, engine/exhaust/etc. It would be a miracle if 
there was no damage to the other side, either.

It appears to be a relatively early car judging from the black door 
locks (two key system), dark wheels and fender mounted antenna. These 
point to car with a VIN below 1800 or so. Probably a manual 
transmission, almost assuredly a black interior. Looks like it has 
the original coolant bottle, so it'll probably need some other 
upgrades as well.

So...counting the price of the car, you've got almost $20,000 into a 
car with a salvage title that will never be worth as much as any 
other $20,000 DeLorean out there with a "good" title.

There is intrinsic value in bringing a DeLorean back from the dead, 
particularly if you do it yourself (ask Dave about the Vixen 
project), and that can only be measured by each individual.

You can probably part it out in six months or a year, and recoup the 
$7500 fairly easily, but then you've got a partial DeLorean in your 
garage/backyard for a period of time. Not many homeowner's 
associations going to go for it sitting in your driveway.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love to see this car brought back to life, 
and the right person with the skills, disposable income, time, 
patience, and love for the DeLorean could do it - but they'd have to 
do it for love because they could probably never sell it and get 
their money out of it.

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company
Houston, Texas

281/568-9573
800/USA-DMC1
http://www.delorean.com

PS - If anyone from the DML does buy this car with the intention of 
rebuilding it - let me know, I'll work you a deal on the parts :-)


>   Dear List,
>   Below is a link to pics of a hurt D that needs a new home. Please
>do NOT visit this link if you are easily upset at images of hurt D's
>(I cried when I visited). The car is selling for $7,500. That is all
>the info I have at this time. I would buy this car and save it if I
>could but sadly do not have the money at this time.
>  http://www.octagonauto.com/images/delorenrear.jpg
>    DMC Wannabe



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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 19:15:01 -0000
From: "JamesRG" <jamesrg_at_dml_btinternet.com>
Subject: Colling system hoses

Dear All,

Just finished fixing my fuel sender unit and it works, wow!! here's a brief
technical analysis of the problem for all you buffs out there : The springy
thing had broken but I managed to solder it back together and now it works,
I can now confirm that the tank is empty without having to breakdown!.

Anyway onto the actual question, this is probably best answered by someone
in the UK, the hoses on the cooling system look as if they need replacing
and have got that cracked glazed look about them and I was wondering if it
is possible to get these hoses from Halfords or another car shop,
unfortunately I can not afford a new set from one of the DeLorean suppliers
in the USA at the moment.

Secondly there was a funny squealing noise from the engine compartment on
and off during my last short journey is this a possible sign that the water
pump is knackerd and if so is it hard to renovate or replace the pump. It
looks like it is in a bit of a nasty position to get to, will I have to
remove the rear fascia and if so is that as time consuming as removing the
front fascia?

Thirdly what engine oil do people recommend for the DeLorean?  Fully or Semi
synthetic? and any specific make?, mine is looking a bit black and could do
with a change.

Fourthly & Finally (I hear a sigh of relief) does the DeLorean plastic
petrol tank susceptible to leaking or are they generally quite hard wearing?

With Thanks

James
England

P.S. A happy new year to all.




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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 19:24:26 -0000
From: "Vin#5462" <dmc12_at_dml_btinternet.com>
Subject: Re. Hurt D for sale, please save!

I almost shed a tear at this picture mainly because the front half of this
car looks better than mine when you look at the other picture on the web
site. Surly someone can come to its rescue.







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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 15:56:44 -0500
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Re: John Delorean and Reliability.

While I know the Vega thread is dead, something in its first post bothers me.  I want to set the record straight by pointing out evidence that John Z. DeLorean intensely disliked the Vega.

I believe that both his autobigraphy and "On a Clear Day you can See General Motors" mention how much he hated that car.  He inherited the Vega project when he took the reigns of Chevy.  JZD disliked the Vega engine and he disliked its name, both of which he claimed were
selected by corporate higher-ups.

In fact, I think that JZD's disagreements with GM over the Vega project were a major reason why he left.  They did not like his attitude about the car and he did not like theirs.

William Sternbach's assertion that John DeLorean "introduced" the Vega might be technically correct, insofar as JZD was running Chevy when the Vega first hit showrooms.  But by the time JZD formed his own company, I believe the Vega represented everything he disliked about
American cars.  I think he wanted the DeLorean to be the Anti-Vega.

- Mike Substelny




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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 14:27:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>
Subject: spedometer = estimateometer

Guys,

When I bought my car, the spodometer wasn't working. After replacing the
stripped out plastic cap, it kind of worked, but constantly bobbled up and
down, so I never really knew how fast I was going. Eventually, the angle
drive broke, so I've recently replaced the angle drive and the lower
speedo cable (the one on it before was too long to be the correct
cable). So now I'm certain that the lower cable, angle drive, and cap are
all just fine, but still, my spedometer estimates my speed. It will bob
back and forth within about a 20 mph range. Any ideas on how to fix this?

-Christian

PS. Happy New Year to everyone!




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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 17:37:25 -0500
From: "Jack & Virginia Stiefel" <stiefel_at_dml_minalco.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!

If you back the address to the original homepage of the site there is one
more pic of the car, and it does have the flap.  I wonder why the cost is so
high.  the damage looks pretty bad, but no worse then I have seen before,
and they were fixed... It seems to me that the cost of such a car in it's
present shape would be much lower.  I had the chance of buying a similar car
from a scrap yard in Texas for 4 grand and it was only involved in an engine
fire -- interior was in good shape as was the rest of the car.

just my 2 cents

Jack & Virginia Stiefel
'81 DeLorean Vin 03461 August  1981 Build NYS Lic: 1981 DMC
'97 Red BMW Z3 Convertible 2.8 6 Cyl -- not the baby 4
'98 Red Dodge Ram Quad Cab Lariat
'01 Black PT Cruiser Limited w/ Flames
Visit us at www.sacketmansion.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Tyler Graves [mailto:graves_14_at_dml_hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 8:40 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!


"At what point does a DeLorean become salvage? " comes to mind.
Without further photos it would be hard to tell, but it would be a
nice project car for someone. What do you guys think? Would be nice
to see if there was a gas flap ;-)

>  http://www.octagonauto.com/images/delorenrear.jpg
>    DMC Wannabe



Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com





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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 17:48:32 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!

In a message dated 1/2/01 4:33:05 PM Central Standard Time, 
graves_14_at_dml_hotmail.com writes:


> "At what point does a DeLorean become salvage? " comes to mind. 
> Without further photos it would be hard to tell, but it would be a 
> nice project car for someone. What do you guys think? Would be nice 
> 

if you keep reading on in the website, i believe somewhere it says that the 
car is in 'excellent condition' other than the accident damage in back.  i 
think they said the interior was pretty nice.  i stumbled onto that site a 
few weeks ago. i'm sure whoever lost that one was upset!

andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 22:59:00 -0000
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: DMC and BTTF (Was: Good point, Roger)

About 50 % of our members are less than 25 years old. Some have become
DeLorean owners,  many if not most, were originally inspired by the BTTF
movies. I cant see anything wrong in that.
Some cars, like old Rolls Royce, have seen steadily declining values over
recent years. Why ?
Because not many young folk can "identify" with a 1930 Rolls Royce and as
the older enthusiasts die off, there is just not the demand from the younger
generations.  We should be grateful for the BTTF films ( in my opinion)

Chris P DOC UK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc A Levy" <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 2:54 PM
Subject: [DML] DMC and BTTF (Was: Good point, Roger)


> Play down?  I dont think this is the case at all!
>
> I enjoy the BTTF movies, I even watched BTTF1 on TV this weekend.
>
> Most DeLorean owners are just tired of every 3rd moron asking "Where is
the flux
> capacitor", or "What happens when you hit 88MPH"... As if they are some
sort of
> genius that they just came up with this original joke..
>
> I guess it is better than the cocaine jokes..
>
> Either way, all you (I) can do is smile an nod.  But, it just gets old!
>
>
> RJRavalli_at_dml_aol.com wrote:
>
> > This is an excellent point, so then one has to ask: Why is the DeLorean
> > in this position?  I think the clear answer is the BTTF movies, a
> > connection that many DeLorean owners may try to play down, but
> > ulimately I don't think you really can.  In the end, DeLorean owners
> > may owe more thanks to Speilberg and Zemeckis than to John
> > DeLorean (and I'm sure I'm not the first one to make that point.)
>
>
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>




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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 18:07:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Mark Fearer <mfearer_at_dml_mail.fearernet.com>
Subject: Re: John Delorean and Reliability.

On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Mike Substelny wrote:
> While I know the Vega thread is dead, something in its first post bothers me.  I want to set the record straight by pointing out evidence that John Z. DeLorean intensely disliked the Vega.
> I believe that both his autobigraphy and "On a Clear Day you can See General Motors" mention how much he hated that car.  He inherited the Vega project when he took the reigns of Chevy.  JZD disliked the Vega engine and he disliked its name, both of which he claimed were
> selected by corporate higher-ups.
> In fact, I think that JZD's disagreements with GM over the Vega project were a major reason why he left.  They did not like his attitude about the car and he did not like theirs.
> William Sternbach's assertion that John DeLorean "introduced" the Vega might be technically correct, insofar as JZD was running Chevy when the Vega first hit showrooms.  But by the time JZD formed his own company, I believe the Vega represented everything he disliked about
> American cars.  I think he wanted the DeLorean to be the Anti-Vega.
> - Mike Substelny
> 

  Touchee! Thank you, Mike, for pointing that out. The Vega was ready for
the retail market at the same time that JZD was moved from general manager
of Pontiac to Chevrolet (1969/1970). Therefor, JZD had little, if any,
input to the design of the Vega. He was merely a figurehead (in the wrong
place at the wrong time). JZD had brought Pontiac from sixth in sales to
third (behind Chevy and Ford) during the 1960s. He turned the stodgy
division from grandma's silver streak to the G-T-Os and the Grand Prixs of
the youth market. GM brass 'rewarded' him by making him the general
manager of their flagship division - in reality, he was brought on board
at Chevrolet as a troubleshooter to their many problems of that time
frame.

--
Mark Fearer
vin 3072
Manchester, New Hampshire




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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 06:16:17 -0500
From: Dad <dsontos_at_dml_sybercom.net>
Subject: Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!

This car was posted here last summer I believe, unless someone wants a
parts car its worthless.

Dave Sontos
VIN 02573





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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 23:18:59
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!

Learn the tricks of the webadresses....often they reveal more...

I simply went to: http://www.octagonauto.com and there is the front photo of 
the car...

To make it easy for you follow this link:

http://www.octagonauto.com/images/delorenfront.jpg

She's a beauty isnt she? :) Now, whats the VIN?

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 06759


>From: "Tyler Graves" <graves_14_at_dml_hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
>Subject: [DML] Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!
>Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 13:40:10 -0000
>
>"At what point does a DeLorean become salvage? " comes to mind.
>Without further photos it would be hard to tell, but it would be a
>nice project car for someone. What do you guys think? Would be nice
>to see if there was a gas flap ;-)
>
> >  http://www.octagonauto.com/images/delorenrear.jpg
> >    DMC Wannabe
>
>
>
>Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
>www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>

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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 19:31:57 -0500
From: "Rob Hook" <robhook_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Colling system hoses

James,

The squealing you're hearing is either a loose belt or the AC compressor
idler bearings.  If you look at the engine from the back you'll see two
pulleys attached to brackets mounted on the left side of the engine.  Put
some oil on these and run it a little and the problem will go away.  Mine
started squealing just after I bought my car and I oiled them and the
problem went away.  That was 4 or 5 years ago and they're just now starting
to make noise again.

As for the water pump, the most common failure is that water will start
leaking out of the weep hole on the front of the pump.  It's not common for
the pump to make noise when failing.  If you DID have to replace it,
however, removing the rear fascia is not required.  You DO have to remove
the fuel injection system and intake manifold, however.

On the question of oil, I use full synthetic Mobil 1 in my car.  Make sure
you don't have any oil leaks before switching to synthetic though as
synthetics tend to leak more.  More important than the choice of oil, I
think, is the choice of oil filter.  I use Puralator as they actually list
one intended for the DeLorean.

The fuel tanks usually don't leak fuel.  Various things do, however, cause
vapors to enter the car on occasion.

--Rob Hook

> Secondly there was a funny squealing noise from the engine compartment on
> and off during my last short journey is this a possible sign that the
water
> pump is knackerd and if so is it hard to renovate or replace the pump. It
> looks like it is in a bit of a nasty position to get to, will I have to
> remove the rear fascia and if so is that as time consuming as removing the
> front fascia?
>
> Thirdly what engine oil do people recommend for the DeLorean?  Fully or
Semi
> synthetic? and any specific make?, mine is looking a bit black and could
do
> with a change.
>
> Fourthly & Finally (I hear a sigh of relief) does the DeLorean plastic
> petrol tank susceptible to leaking or are they generally quite hard
wearing?
>
> With Thanks
>
> James
> England





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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 19:55:44 -0500
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Squeak and motor oil (was Colling system hoses)

Some answers to your questions:

The squealing noise from your engine may be from the idler pulley bearings.
I would thoroughly check this out before getting into the water pump.  Try
taking the a/c belt off and seeing if the noise stops.

What kind of engine oil you use is a matter of personal preference.
Remember that synthetic is more slippery and therefore leaks out easier IF
you have an oil leak.  I have Penzoil 10w-30 in my engine right now.  That's
a bit thin, but the weather is cold.  In hot weather I would use 20w-50.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 20:08:44 -0500
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: spedometer = estimateometer

Try hooking a variable speed power drill to different places in the system.
Maybe this will help locate the bad spot.  The bouncing needle syndrome is
often caused by a cable that could use some grease on it (read warning
below) or from a cable that is slightly too long for it's tube.  When the
cable whips around, the needle bounces.

Greasing a speedometer cable is not always a good idea since grease can
migrate into places where you don't want it such as inside of your
speedometer.  Grease on the lower cable may not be a bad idea.  Wheel
bearing grease is pretty thick and does not migrate much.  I'm sure other
people on this list will tell you that greasing any part of the system
(except the angle drive) is a bad idea, so take this advice with a grain of
salt.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 20:03:58 -0800
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: spedometer = estimateometer

Try putting some foam tape on the inside of the wheel where it contacts the
plastic cap. The cap itself has been known to slip because of a poor fit
between the hub and the wheel. It solved my bobbing speedometer.

Bruce Benson


> When I bought my car, the spodometer wasn't working. After replacing the
> stripped out plastic cap, it kind of worked, but constantly bobbled up and
> down, so I never really knew how fast I was going. So now I'm certain that
>the lower cable, angle drive, and cap are
> all just fine, but still, my spedometer estimates my speed. It will bob
> back and forth within about a 20 mph range. Any ideas on how to fix this?
>
> -Christian





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Message: 22
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 20:08:23 -0800
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: John Delorean and Reliability.

A really good book that chronicles the stodginess of General Motors is "The
Rise And Fall Of The American Auto Industry" by Brock Yates. While it
doesn't concentrate on the Vega or John DeLorean it does leave you with a
really good understanding of the executive mentality that drove John
DeLorean away from the 'General'.

Bruce Benson


>   Touchee! Thank you, Mike, for pointing that out. The Vega was ready for
> the retail market at the same time that JZD was moved from general manager
> of Pontiac to Chevrolet (1969/1970). Therefor, JZD had little, if any,
> input to the design of the Vega. He was merely a figurehead (in the wrong
> place at the wrong time). JZD had brought Pontiac from sixth in sales to
> third (behind Chevy and Ford) during the 1960s. He turned the stodgy
> division from grandma's silver streak to the G-T-Os and the Grand Prixs of
> the youth market. GM brass 'rewarded' him by making him the general
> manager of their flagship division - in reality, he was brought on board
> at Chevrolet as a troubleshooter to their many problems of that time
> frame.
>
> --
> Mark Fearer
> vin 3072
> Manchester, New Hampshire





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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 03:53:39 -0000
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: DMC, BTTF, and other cars compared to the D.

   This one subject has spurned off into almost 3 differant ones. 
Some are long running debates. So I'll try to seperate everything.

1. Back to the Future.

   I don't think that Back to the Future is solely responsible for 
the majority of car sales in the sense theat people who buy 
DeLorean's want to own Doc Brown's time machine. I think it's more a 
case of people see the car and want to know more about it, and once 
they find out more about it decide that they want one because they 
fall in love with the car. IMHO if DMC was still in bussiness today, 
and BTTF was never made, I still think that the same people who are 
here right now would still be here. If not BTTF, then DMC would have 
made us all aware of the car. For whatever reasons we may have to own 
our cars, I don't think that "Because I wanna be just like Doc 
Brown/Marty McFly" is at the top of that list. Yes BTTF has helped a 
great deal with the recognition of the DeLorean, but I don't believe 
that it is the direct cause of sales. I liked the 1989 movie Batman, 
but if my local dealership had batmobiles for sale, I wouldn't run 
out to buy one.

2. Comparing the DeLorean to other cars.

   This is a touchy subject on many levels. First off it must be 
remembered that while the DeLorean was completed enough to get it 
into production, the company died before the car could realize it's 
full potential. So it is this factor that causes a good deal of the 
car's 'shortcommings'. And by 'shortcommings' I mean items that were 
never exploited to their own full potentials, i.e. engine power, 
exterior/interior colors and options, etc... I do NOT mean things 
such as engineering defects. While there are some factory items that 
do require certain corrections, there is nothing on the car that I 
would ever consider defective. All of which would have been taken 
care of by time. As an example, I would say the Corvette is somewhat 
of a good comparison car. Both it and the D were ment to give good 
performance, look atractive, appeal to people, and be sold in 
substantial quantities. Stat wise, only in the area of power does the 
DeLorean fall short. But this is something was was being rectified by 
the company, proof is VIN 502 and the other cars from Legend 
Industries. Comparing the DeLorean to cars that are in no way in the 
DeLorean's class is absurd. 
   The Vega was a compact car from the early 70's. I don't know that 
much about the car except it had an all aluminium engine that cracked 
in half within the first 8 miles on the GM test track, the designing 
and marketing of the car was a battle, and sales of the car were less 
then expected. That and numerous first-hand stoires about the defects 
of the car. First-hand tales are usually something you don't find 
with the DeLorean.
   The very first time I saw the Saleen was on it's website. It was 
the first time in a while that I'd had a good laugh! The car is 
nowhere near a DeLorean in any category. The concept itslef is 
uninspiring. Over all the thing looks like a riced-up NSX. "Counter-
balanced Gullwing doors", and "Rust-proof stainless steel body 
panels" are truly respectable features that you would find on a 
car. "Fully functional...Gill-like ducting", and "...extremely 
accurate belt-driven camshaft drive..." are not! And to think, they 
call these "exclusive" features, ha! Body styling; I've seen more 
creativity and originality on Hondas. Daily driver? Who in the world 
is goning to use that car to go to work in? 550hp is quite 
impressive, but does you little good in traffic when people on 
bicycles are moving faster then you are. But what Saleen Inc. may 
know about performance, they seriously lack in coach-building. The 
interior does not complement the exterior of the car at all. It's 
bland to the point where it begins to look cheap. The "hump" in the 
center of the car where the stickshift is reminds me of a kit car, 
and the seats don't look that comfortable either. Overall it reminds 
me of the G.I. Joe toy cars that I had when I was a kid. The DeLorean 
has a much more beautiful and complete look and feel to it. The 
doors? Don't even get me started on the doors! But, the absolute best 
has to be the quotes about the car. "The car, when seen in person, 
has an amazing presence..." Who is the one quoting this? The
owner of 
the company, which when you think about it is tragicly sad in a 
pathetic sort of way. Was the owner of the company the only guy they 
could find who had anything nice to say about the car? Good or bad, 
PLETNY has been said about the DeLorean, and always will be. But the 
ad campaign with JZD capures the true feeling, "Live the Dream!" Why? 
Because the car speaks for itself. If a picture is worth a thousand 
words, then the DeLorean is the equivilent of pi!
   But I'm not writing this to simply trash other cars or anything 
like that. The purpose is to show how unrealistic it can be to try 
and attempt to compare to items that are incomparable. This is the 
quintessence of apples to oranges.

4. Myths and Misunderstanding about JZD & the DMC-12.

   There always seems to be an almost infinate list of myths, 
misunderstatings, second-hand facts, and wild stories about both the 
man and the car. Some are confusions between other cars and events, 
some are just plain wrong. As it has been said before, JZD did not 
design the Vega (BIG thanks to Mike Substelny for helping clear this 
minsunderstanding up AGAIN). JZD isn't in jail now, nor was he ever. 
There is no helicoptor engine (Tucker), the doors are not hydrolic 
(Bricklin), and no cocaine was ever stashed in the wheel wells or 
tires in an effort to smuggle drugs into the country (Nissan). While 
everyone here knows by now (if always) that none of these things are 
true. While yes it does get annoying having to listen to all the 
comments, and sometimes put up with them. I wouldn't have it any 
other way. "Where's the flux capacitor at" is by far better then 
being ignored.

While this is a longer then usual post, I felt that it couldn't just 
be divided up into 4 seperate ones. Thanks for reading, and for your 
time...

-Robert
vin 6585
It's a DeLorean. What else can I say?




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Message: 24
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 22:10:09 -0600
From: "Steven Lawrence" <vipertv_at_dml_cableone.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!

> "At what point does a DeLorean become salvage? " comes to mind. 
> Without further photos it would be hard to tell, but it would be a 
> nice project car for someone. What do you guys think? Would be nice 
> to see if there was a gas flap ;-)

Yes, this car does have the gas flap...
http://www.octagonauto.com/images/delorenfront.jpg

Steven Lawrence
vipertv_at_dml_cableone.net
VIN# - not yet.....
My DeLorean Website
http://go.fast.to/delorean/




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Message: 25
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 23:28:50 EST
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Auto Zone Gas Lines

In a message dated 12/30/00 12:40:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, SGSKBM_at_dml_aol.com 
writes:

<< I replaced the line with ones that I bought at Auto Zone and 
 I have lived happly ever after, until now.  I am wondering if they 
 really do require special lines that were manufactured by a Delorean 
 supplier. >>

I save myself a lot of wondering by simply buying my parts from a DeLorean 
supplier in the first place.  They KNOW what makes a difference, and what 
doesn't.  My first car was a forgettable Opel Kadett made in the late '60's.  
If it was something I still had and wanted to drive, I'd be hard pressed to 
find parts, and always wondering if my scrounged up parts were appropriate.  
With the DeLorean, we're blessed with not just an ample supply of parts cars 
and used parts... a miracle in itself, but a huge NOS parts warehouse and 
several full service vendors, all of them reputable.  Sure, a few  parts are 
generic.  But I haven't noticed any potential savings.  And the guy at the 
auto parts store will never know squat about your car.  On my last parts 
order I asked for a nut for the fuel tank baffle.  Could I get that nut at 
the hardware store?  Yep, but I got the right nut, right thread, right 
material, right away.   Actually, I think he didn't even charge me for it.  
Plus he knows my car inside and out.  I've seen some "I think this will work" 
repairs and it ain't pretty.  Do it right the first time with the proper 
parts and you'll save yourself... or the next owner... a lot of grief.

-Wayne
"Still living the dream!"
The New DeLorean Manuals Project



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