From: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 353
Date: Friday, January 05, 2001 8:31 AM

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There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Re: NCT's in Concours
From: "Kevin Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

2. St. Patrick's Day parade in S.D.
From: "World Traveller" <eurojet_at_dml_sdcoe.k12.ca.us>

3. Re:Cutting Springs
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

4. buzzing sound
From: "Greg Bell" <gbell_at_dml_esd.uga.edu>

5. Re: Re: NCT's in Concours
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

6. Re: Re: New Poll / What number owner are you???
From: Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>

7. Re: Lowering the Front Springs
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

8. Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

9. RE: Lowering the Front Springs
From: "Bryn Potter (NEC)" <v-brynp_at_dml_microsoft.com>

10. to all of you in the las vegas area
From: gonedeaf85_at_dml_aol.com

11. Re: DMC and BTTF (Was: Good point, Roger)
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>

12. Fascia Paint
From: "JamesRG" <jamesrg_at_dml_btinternet.com>

13. EUROFEST 2001
From: ROBLAMROCK_at_dml_aol.com

14. What DeLorean owner are you poll?
From: Joe Fedeli <fedeli_at_dml_excite.com>

15. Rear Suspension completed!
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com

16. Re:Was NCT's in Concours Now Safety
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 21:46:36 -0600
From: "Kevin Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Re: NCT's in Concours

Frankly, I don't think tires should be an issue in Concours. The NCT's (at
least mine) were not totally bad, I just didn't trust them. But I am a daily
driver. Not that my car couldn't be Concours winner, it is in excellent
shape.
So I bought a new issue of BFG's Radial T/A's with "lateral stability" or
some such salestalk. I love how quiet they are compared to my NCT's and
probably in comparision to the Yoko's. And great braking power too. I did
squeal to a stop once or twice on the NCT's, but today I did an amazing stop
with no squealing at all. I am very pleased.
And even though my BFG RTA's don't have a 2000 "H" rating, they far exceed
the performance of 1981 "H" tires. IMHO. And I saved over $100 to spend
elsewhere on the car/family/house.
When people go to replace tires it is personal preference. Just because some
people prefer Yokos does not make them the Concours standard, does it? If a
part, such as the NCT's, have to be replaced, why not leave that to personal
preference and just judge them on looks? Which looks better? That might be
Yokos anyway... :)

Another issue-- I just found out my car was lowered by the dealership before
the first owner took it home. They apparently lowered all DMC12's before
they left to go home (see my earlier post and any responses from people
about that practice. I have no reason to doubt the first owner). How does a
dealership lowering effect a Concours judging?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc A Levy" <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: NCT's in Concours


> The point has been made, and I agree, that even if a good LOOKING set of
20 year
> old tires are found, that in no way indicates that they are safe.
>
> Frankly, I dont know why anyone would risk safety (or even reliability)
for a
> trophy.  Furthermore (as I have said before), I can't understand why any
> DeLorean "authority" would encourage such a practice.  Points should be
DEDUCTED
> for 20 year old tires, along with any other original unsafe items.

> Mike Substelny wrote:
> <SNIP>
> > Based on the experience of judging the truely fine concours cars in
Saint Louis
> > and Cleveland, I know that there are still some excellent condition NTCs





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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 04:24:50 -0000
From: "World Traveller" <eurojet_at_dml_sdcoe.k12.ca.us>
Subject: St. Patrick's Day parade in S.D.

The annual St. Patrick's Day parade is coming up and I have already 
registered to drive my D in it again this year. Last year I was the 
only one and would like some company this year! You can download an 
application at www.stpatsparade.org or call 858-268-9111 for more 
information. It's fun and it's free. By the way, S.D. is for San 
Diego, not South Dakota!




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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 03:47:53 EST
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re:Cutting Springs

In a message dated 1/3/01 10:48:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, Whalt_at_dml_att.net 
writes:

<< the instructions in Delorean World are for cutting the rear springs and 
then putting them on the front.  I suppose you could take an educated guess 
and do some trial and error.  But your best bet is to buy the lower spring. >>

I think most or all knowledgeable D mechanics would agree that the new 
springs are the only way to go.  I've seen the article in DW and as I recall, 
it was from several years ago.  If it were written today, it would likely 
feature the installation of made-for-the-purpose springs that are now 
available.  The best and most accurate information can nonetheless be 
superceded when a better product or method, especially one fielded by 
knowledgeable DeLorean professionals, comes along.  Even with a twenty year 
repair history, there are always improvements and new products being 
developed.  Another plus for the DeLorean marque!

Wayne A. Ernst
vin 11174
The New DeLorean Manuals Project



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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 08:49:23 -0500
From: "Greg Bell" <gbell_at_dml_esd.uga.edu>
Subject: buzzing sound


I went to start # 10054 for the first time in about a month yesterday,
first of all the battery was dead so I jumped it off. As soon as it
started, I heard an odd buzzing sound coming from somewhere in what sounded
the front driver's portion of the car. When I shut the door, it still
continued and I drove to town to give the car a little exercise. The
buzzing never stopped. When I returned home, I parked it and turned the
ignition off but the buzzing never stopped. The car was off and the key
removed but the buzzing sound continued. About the time I started to
investigate, the wife called me in the house for about 10 - 15 minutes,
when I returned, the buzzing had stopped. I now have a charger on the
battery as it would still not start when I returned from town.

Does anyone know what the buzzing could be? Is it responsible for running
the battery down you think? This is the first major problem I've had with
my car so please help me if you can.

Thank you,
Greg




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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 09:38:58 EST
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: NCT's in Concours

Tires break down in various ways.  The most common is UV degredation which 
takes its toll on rubber.  The cracking and crazing is a result of that and 
if you keep the car outside in sunlight it will deteriorate faster. There are 
dressings you can put on your tires that will block UV and help preserve the 
tires and keep them from "Dry Rot".  I also cover the tires when not in use 
further blocking UV light.
I have a friend at Firestone ( He is looking for another job) and he 
indicated that if properly stored the tires can last many many years (beyond 
20). But no matter what you do the tires will still deteriorate at some rate.

I have a car with 5,000 miles on it and the NCT's are original.  They are in 
excellent shape and I have no problem driving them.  They are not that stiff 
either.  I did go 900 miles to the Nashville show and do about 200 miles a 
year although my car now is more of a trailer queen.  

I have however seen NCT tires that have cracks and are stiff.  Those tires I 
would not feel safe on.  Overall if you are not showing the car in concourse 
events and if it were mine I would put on a set of Yokahama tires and enjoy a 
smoother ride. 

Just my opinion

Ken
<A HREF="http://deloreancarshow.com">DeLorean Car Show</A>





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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 09:39:52 -0500
From: Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>
Subject: Re: Re: New Poll / What number owner are you???

If you know what state the car came from, you can usually purchase copies of all
the related paperwork from the state DMV.

I did this with my 1966 mustang, and I got every shred of paper on the car from
the point it was sold at the dealership in 1966.


Jan van de wouw wrote:
><SNIP>
> 
> If anybody has any tips on tracing this I'd also be glad to know.
> When nothing turns up I won't really mind either: to me owning,
> driving and working on the car is more important than knowing its
> complete story.
<SNIP>



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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 15:01:57 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Re: Lowering the Front Springs

In my opinion...it's not worth doing. You can't just take the springs 
off and cut them with a hack saw, torch or cutoff wheel. You have to 
bring it proffesional so that they can cut them down perfectly and 
flaten the ends of the spring after it's been cut. This alone would 
cost more than just purchasing a set of lowered springs from a 
Delorean parts dealer. The lowering springs that they offer are 
specially engineered for the delorean and are made from scratch (not 
modified OEM springs). I also don't suggest lowering the rear. If you 
talk to Rob at PJ Grady he can tell you why (his green delorean is 
lowered both in the rear and front). Save yourself the Headache and 
money, purchase the lowering shocks from a Delorean vendor, they will 
be the right ones that you need. Rob and DMC Joe sell the front shock 
set for $195 and they are powdercoated. You can use your existing 
shocks with the springs, but they do offer specially designed (custom 
made) front and rear shocks that deliver better performance. A kit 
for all four shocks and set of front springs are available from them 
too.

Steve
--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, wmack <wmack_at_dml_v...> wrote:
> I read in Delorean World that you could lower the front end of 
simply cutting 
> a couple of coils off of the original springs, rather than buying 
the new 
> lowered springs.  Has anyone had any success with this? and is it 
reliable?
> 
> Thanks
>   Willie
>   Vin 5043




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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 15:28:24 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Re: Hurt D for sale, please save!

Just to inform the list, I spoke to the dealer of this car and he 
told me this: If he can't sell the car "as is" for that price, he 
will start parting the car out. But his parting out methood he 
described is butchery. He wasn't going to just remove body parts off 
the car and sell them....he is going to actually cut the car into 
peices! He said if anyone wanted any parts from the front of the car 
they would have to buy the front section...half of the fiberglass 
underbody along with all the SS panels that are attached to it and so 
forth..<gulp>. The price he is asking for that car in it's current 
condition is very high...I bought my Delorean from a private owner a 
while back for around the same price (was in an accident on the front 
passenger side fender, nothing wrong with frame or crumple zone) but 
along with it I got new front and rear fascias, a replacment hood and 
a new fender along with a box of other new parts for the engine and 
misc things.






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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 09:45:23 -0800
From: "Bryn Potter (NEC)" <v-brynp_at_dml_microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Lowering the Front Springs

Willie , 

Your driving a Deolrean, not a Civic. Cutting a coil spring changes the drop
rate , bind rate and pre-compression.  I suggest replacing the front
springs. David Raine from AT Auto Spring Warehouse in Carneyspoint NJ custom
made new front Delorean springs 15% stiffer and 45 mm (1 7/8" US) shorter
for under $150.00 US including shipping. Here is his phone number and
address. 

856-299-9141   DAVID RAINE   AT AUTO SPRING WAREHOUSE

David Raine
425 harding highway 
Carneyspoint NJ 08069

Thanks
~Bryn




-----Original Message-----
From: wmack [mailto:wmack_at_dml_vt.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 10:07 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: [DML] Lowering the Front Springs


I read in Delorean World that you could lower the front end of simply
cutting 
a couple of coils off of the original springs, rather than buying the new 
lowered springs.  Has anyone had any success with this? and is it reliable?

Thanks
  Willie
  Vin 5043



Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com



________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 13:07:14 EST
From: gonedeaf85_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: to all of you in the las vegas area

Hello all. Just wondering if anyone is going to be attending the Consumer 
Electronics Show in Las Vegas this weekend.  If so please respond privately 
to Gonedeaf85_at_dml_aol.com.  Thank you.

Eric & Marni
vin 007104 



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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 22:44:59
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: DMC and BTTF (Was: Good point, Roger)

Just a one comment to:

> > In the end, DeLorean owners
> > may owe more thanks to Speilberg and Zemeckis than to John
> > DeLorean

Really? I'd rather say thanks to John DeLorean and the excellent workforce 
at Belfast who made the DeLorean so futuristic that Spielberg/Zemeckis chose 
the DMC-12 as the time machine instead of some other car...maybe Bricklin? 
;)

More seriously, I think DeLorean Motor Cars LTD, would still be in business 
today, had Back to the Future come out in summer 1982... Imagine how that 
would have affected the sales :)

If only...


Sincerely
Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 06759 - Proud of being associated with BTTF :)

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:59:38 -0000
From: "JamesRG" <jamesrg_at_dml_btinternet.com>
Subject: Fascia Paint

Thanks for all the advice on the squealing noise I mentioned in my last post
to the list I will be putting it into practice this weekend.

Anyway the next question.

When I brought my DeLorean the front fascia was more curvy than Pamela
Anderson's chest and clearly had to be straightened out, I did this with by
removing the fascia and inserting some metal plates to hold it straight and
problem solved. However I really need to repaint both the front and rear
fascia. I have an air compressor and spray gun but I don't know what the
name of the colour is, I know that someone in England had got the right
paint or very very near match and I think it was a Mercedes colour. Can
anyone help with this as it would make the car look so much better if they
were re-sprayed, also any idea of where to buy it from would be a great
help.


Regards


James Russell-Grant
England




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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:16:47 EST
From: ROBLAMROCK_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: EUROFEST 2001

Less than 20 weeks to the greatest DeLorean party of the year!
Find out more:
http://www.delorean-owners.org/events/eurofest2001.html
Very best wishes,
Robert Lamrock
Organiser



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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:26:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Joe Fedeli <fedeli_at_dml_excite.com>
Subject: What DeLorean owner are you poll?

  Regarding the 3rd Dutch owner of the DeLorean, I believe that the owner
who brought the car over from the US was a member of our local DeLorean
club.  If you contact Aldo Buono in Philadelphia, he might have some of the
old records to assist you on a name.  You can email me directly if you do
not have his address.  Again, I'm not sure, but I think this was the same
car.

Joe 





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Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/





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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:18:57 EST
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Rear Suspension completed!

Hey List,

      I was able to complete the installation of the rear suspension and 
install the rear wheels, so now I officially have a rolling chassis!  Since 
there is still a lot of snow on the ground, I am not sure what I am going to 
do next.  I still have to install the engine/tranny (which is under snow 
right now and not mated yet) the second half of the cooling lines, the heater 
feed and return lines, the ss braided clutch line.  After all that gets 
installed, I will be able to connect the body and the frame.  Anyone on Long 
Island wanna help me lift the body over the frame when the time comes?  It 
took about 12 people to move the body of the car from the driveway into the 
garage while I was at work.  Thats all for now.  This thing is really 
starting to look like a car!  Hope everyone had a great New Year!

Later,
Nick
1852
Http://members.aol.com/njp548



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Message: 16
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 02:57:48 -0000
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re:Was NCT's in Concours Now Safety

In concours safety is not the primary issue, origionality and 
authenticity is. If safety was important then why are the rules 
looking for the origional fan circuit breakers, door module, fan fail 
relay, plastic coolant bottle and on and on. Some cars have burnt to 
death because of some of these "origional" parts. Tires should be the 
least of your safety concerns. I know of no posts to this list or any 
owner complaints because their 20 year old NCT's failed them a la 
firestone-bridgestone. If ANYONE can say that they had an NCT tire 
fail them please post to the list.(Not just a flat or hitting a curb).
As far as tires in a concours with all things being equal the car with 
the NCT's should get more points.In some concours for other makes if 
you have the "recalled" rims on your car you get more points and it is 
really hard to get those rims and they are EXPENSIVE, let safety be 
dammed. In other concours there are no point deductions for safety 
related items such as seat belts, safety glass, or turn signals. This 
all comes down to "He who has the GOLD writes the rules". If you don't 
agree with the rules as they exist either accept them the way they are 
or if enough people care then we can change them. I for one would like 
to see more standardization with other associations like the AACA so 
that we will be able to compete in their concours without rebuilding 
the car or comprimising safety.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757




--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, kkoncelik_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Tires break down in various ways.  The most common is UV degredation 
which 
> takes its toll on rubber.  The cracking and crazing is a result of 
that and 
> if you keep the car outside in sunlight it will deteriorate faster. 
There are 
> dressings you can put on your tires that will block UV and help 
preserve the 
> tires and keep them from "Dry Rot".  I also cover the tires when not 
in use 
> further blocking UV light.
> I have a friend at Firestone ( He is looking for another job) and he 
> indicated that if properly stored the tires can last many many years 
(beyond 
> 20). But no matter what you do the tires will still deteriorate at 
some rate.
> 
> I have a car with 5,000 miles on it and the NCT's are original.  
They are in 
> excellent shape and I have no problem driving them.  They are not 
that stiff 
> either.  I did go 900 miles to the Nashville show and do about 200 
miles a 
> year although my car now is more of a trailer queen.  
> 
> I have however seen NCT tires that have cracks and are stiff.  Those 
tires I 
> would not feel safe on.  Overall if you are not showing the car in 
concourse 
> events and if it were mine I would put on a set of Yokahama tires 
and enjoy a 
> smoother ride. 
> 
> Just my opinion
> 
> Ken
> <A HREF="http://deloreancarshow.com">DeLorean Car Show</A>




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