From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 362
Date: Thursday, January 11, 2001 8:58 PM

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There are 3 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: One More thought on the D's doors
From: "Steve Rubano" <>

2. Re: laughing?

3. An end to the shock and spring debacle? (another volley)
From: James Espey <>

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:28:19 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <>
Subject: Re: One More thought on the D's doors

> What about a rubber boot 
> that wraps around the torsion bar?  Then put the sticker on top of 
> that.  But it is all just more and more ideas.
> Jim Reeve
> -6960

Putting a rubber boot over the Torsion bar IMHO is a bad idea. It 
can/will trap moisture in the boot and possibly rust the torsion bar.



Message: 2
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:42:39 EST
Subject: Re: laughing?

Yeah, some people are like, "So, find any crack in the seats yet?" 
Most people don't know what really happened, and most think John DeLorean is 
dead or in jail.

John Feldman
VIN 4275

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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:11:48 -0500
From: James Espey <>
Subject: An end to the shock and spring debacle? (another volley)

Dan, my words were "outhandles any car in it's class", and I am 
referring to the cars the DeLorean was compared against at 
introduction in 1981. And 'as well as' many modern cars, I did not 
say it outhandled them, like you said I did. I have driven both the 
manual transmission car (belonging to Gus Schlacter) about 1,000 
miles and the automatic car (belonging to De Lorean Motor Company) 
about the same. Both have the new suspension and the engine package. 
Stephen and I both have a fair amount of time behind the wheel of a 
1999 Audi TT (before and after the recall). We both believe the 
DeLorean handles just as well. It certainly is more FUN to drive - I 
can promise you that, no 'almost' about it.

>Ok... well, I have a big problem with that claim. I can almost promise you


>that Audi would spend millions of R&D on a car that would only be outhandled
>by a 20 year old design with a $1,300 suspension upgrade? (You decide that

Audi spent millions and still ended up with a car that had to be 
recalled because of it's quirky handling characteristics. In 
September and October of 1999, 2 fatal high speed crashes happened in 
Germany and were extensively reported. Another magazine, Stern, even 
interviewed many TT owners and published their scary experience. As 
part of the recall, Audi announced to recall all the 40,000-plus TT 
sold worldwide up to date, fitting thicker anti-roll bars, firmer 
dampers and a rear spoiler. The front wishbone is also revised. A 
friend of Stephen's in the UK rolled his TT last year.

>what it is. I think that's what James was doing... exaggerating. And if
>that's the case James, are you exaggerating the horsepower you're getting

Seems like you're trying to smear me with a pretty wide brush, there, 
Dan. That's not very nice.

>out of DMC Houston's upgraded motor? I'd like to see some "objective"
>specifications on it. Maybe the car magazine of your choice could do that
>test as well...

We can show anyone the dyno test results of the engine (it's a solid 
197 horsepower on the dyno), and attendees to next weekends AZ 
meeting (the 20th) or the Open House in June are welcome to drive the 
car, though the only car we'll have there is the automatic 
transmission equipped company owned car, the biggest problem of which 
is that the stock stall converter shifts at 5500 rpm, which is too 
low to get the max power out of it. The manual transmission car pulls 
up to and beyond redline, with power behind it, in every gear, given 
enough road.

If you can find a magazine that wants to test it, we'll be MORE than 
happy to provide them with the cars - the PR would be great for De 
Lorean Motor Company and the DeLorean in general.

>James also said:
>snip--->"We were also fortunate to have access to the original
>engineers. I told the story earlier on the DML about how after Colin
>Chapman drove one of the DeLorean prototypes with a proposed spring
>setup, the engineers were instructed to re-do their work as the
>DeLorean outhandled the then-current Esprit."

>I would like to see this in writing. Not only is the Esprit lighter, it's

Geez, in writing? I'm sure that it was documented like this..."Colin 
thinks the DMC-12 outhandles the Esprit, wants it changed so it's 
worse. Don't tell JZD." Be realistic. I do solemnly swear that this 
is the story that was related to us by former engineers involved in 
the DeLorean project.

Steve Rubano gave us this link:

in which the author says:

"Eibach engineers emphasized a recurring theme throughout the 
discussion the distinction between a "performance spring" and a 
"lowering spring". Some companies make springs simply to lower a car 
a certain amount 1.25-, 2-,3 in or evermore? Eibach engineers springs 
to enhance the performance of a vehicle, with a lowered center of 
gravity being merely one means of achieving improved performance. To 
Eibach's way of thinking the change in appearance provided by lowered 
ride height is a nice but unimportant side effect of improving 
performance: Eibach's main goal is to improve handling."

Sounds remarkably like what I wrote in my original posting, doesn't 
it? It's not coincidental.

I point to the summation by the author as further evidence that a 
complete, four spring and shock setup is the proper way to do the job:

"Even when making a change as basic as performance springs, the right 
way to do it is with a complete, thoroughly engineered program of one 
component, as its performance will require other components to 
operate differently to maintain harmony."

A "complete, thoroughly engineered program" is doing ALL the springs 
on the car, not just half of them. Our new shocks (again, front AND 
rear) were engineered to work with the previously engineered shocks 
for the ultimate suspension upgrade.

My original posting earlier this week apparently offended some 
people, people who coincidentally or otherwise happen to praise the 
products and services of PJ Grady in their DML postings. My intent 
was not to portray Rob's products or services as shoddy in any way. 
My choice of the word "cheapie" was a bad judgement on my part. I 
have the utmost respect for Rob's technical knowledge and abilities. 
Rob is one of the best customers that De Lorean Motor Company has, 
and I believe that he, Debbie and their staff provide an excellent 
and needed service in their region of the country. While I disagree 
with his assertion that front springs are sufficient to perform an 
adequate job in upgrading the suspension properly (see above), people 
will always disagree. It's when people like Steve, Gary, and now, 
Dan, take it personal and begin to make veiled (and even open) 
accusations that it denigrates the spirit and intent of the DeLorean 
Mailing List.

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company
Houston, Texas


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