From: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 365
Date: Saturday, January 13, 2001 10:14 PM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Re: One More thought on the D's doors AND more
From: jeremysmail_at_dml_softhome.net

2. Delorean _at_dml_ L.A. Auto Show 2006
From: jeremysmail_at_dml_softhome.net

3. Delorean on NOS
From: jeremysmail_at_dml_softhome.net

4. Re: Water in the blower motor.
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

5. Re: question about headlight bracket ?
From: "Dan RC30" <Danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>

6. DeLorean Vendors on DML
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>

7. Re: John Delorean is not a failure???
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>

8. front lower control arms
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

9. Re: My opinion on how the D handles and East TN meeting
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

10. Hello! And: Upcoming purchase ...
From: Farrar Hudkins <smeghead79_at_dml_home.com>

11. Re: Jim Varney's "D"
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com

12. Re: Jim Varney's "D"/ personal note
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com

13. Re: A comment on metrics
From: rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com

14. Re: Re: Re: One More thought on the D's doors AND more
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>

15. Re: front lower control arms
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

16. Re: Hello! And: Upcoming purchase ...
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

17. Re: Re: A comment on metrics
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

18. Re: John Delorean is not a failure???
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

19. Kentucky Delorean
From: "Lance B. Bowman" <spaceace_at_dml_qx.net>

20. Re: Jim Varney's "D"/ personal note
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>

21. Re: John Delorean is not a failure???
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>

22. Tire poll results
From: "Kevin Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

23. Re: Tire poll results
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

24. Re: Resposnse to Suspension by James Espey
From: "Vicky Miller" <delo1_at_dml_mindspring.com>

25. Re: An end to the shock and spring debacle? (another volley) - and a Poll...
From: "Dan RC30" <Danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 06:26:35 -0000
From: jeremysmail_at_dml_softhome.net
Subject: Re: Re: One More thought on the D's doors AND more

Now if they had just used a stainless steel frame we wouldn't need 
the aftermarket unit for $7,000.

Jeremy





   Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 07:45:05 
   From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: One More thought on the D's doors


Nah, the torsion bars are also made of stainless steel :-)

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 06759

>From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
>Putting a rubber boot over the Torsion bar IMHO is a bad idea. It
>can/will trap moisture in the boot and possibly rust the torsion bar.
>
>Steve





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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 06:35:13 -0000
From: jeremysmail_at_dml_softhome.net
Subject: Delorean _at_dml_ L.A. Auto Show 2006

Was no one interested in this? I saw responses to the thread but not 
the subject. 

I'd think it was be an excellent event. I'd put $1k towards the floor 
rental. Gen another dozen owners and some of the dealer's support and 
we're there.

The press WOULD GO NUTS. All kind of paper and tv as far as I'd think.


Jeremy







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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:54:27 -0000
From: jeremysmail_at_dml_softhome.net
Subject: Delorean on NOS

With all this talk of high HP engine convesions I wonder if anyone 
has attempted a NOS upgrade and what the results were.

Jeremy






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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 05:01:52 -0500
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Water in the blower motor.

Robert,

Thanks for the advice.  However, the drain that you are talking about is
spotlessly clean.  I have the fuel tank out and noticed that from laying
under the car, I could look up through this hole and see through the
windshield grill and on up to the garage ceiling.  It really caught my eye
since I didn't expect to see any light coming through from that angle.

Don't worry, I didn't remove my fuel tank in following your advice to clean
this path out!  I had a noisy fuel pump, cracking (but dry) fuel lines,
gasoline odor, a disintegrated fuel suction screen, a shrunken up fuel pump
boot cap, rusted fuel return line.... oh I'm wasting my time here listing
everything.  Let's just say that just about everything that could be bad --
was bad.

Near where the fuel lines exit/enter the console area, there is an open
rubber hose which appears to be the a/c condensate drain, but I'm only
making an assumption here.  It is also very clean looking.  I'm going to
blow some air in there through the shop hose just for good measure, but I
don't think a clog anywhere is the problem.

Since I have had plenty of condensate drip from the a/c unit into the
footwell of the passenger compartment, I figure that rust in the blower
motor was caused by this.  Although I don't like assuming that condensate
collecting on the outside of the a/c also means that I have it collecting or
dripping inside the blower.  My a/c has a thin layer of black foam stuck on
the outside.  I think I heard that this was an after thought to better
insulate the area to prevent condensation, but condensate still collects on
the surface of this foam as well as on the areas that the foam does not
protect.

I am open to the idea that perhaps the drain that you mentioned was clogged
at one time, and a previous owner had it cleaned out before I bought the
car.  But the car appears to have spent very little of its life in the
weather.  It now has 13K miles on it.

I have a suspicion that the blower motors on Deloreans fill with condensate
only because of a poor design since I have read about people having similar
problems.  But this is only a suspicion.  From the looks of the a/c design,
there appears to be a cover plate on the top that can be used as an optional
place to mount the blower.  Mounting the blower at this spot would certainly
stop water from collecting in it (as the motor would now be upside down),
but I would have to remove the whole a/c unit to fit the blower from that
side.  Also, it would require a different style squirrel cage and a motor
that spins in the opposite direction.  Then there may not be enough
clearance for the body of the motor, not to mention how much trouble this
would be to go to.

Since there is an optional place to mount the blower, this indicates that
the unit was used in other cars.  Does anybody have an idea which make and
model cars?

I'm going to start putting everything back together this morning.  My new
beer can fuel sending unit baffle is coming along nicely.  I'll take a few
pictures as I put it together.  Maybe Foster's Brewery will sponsor me.  :)
I'm having trouble finding some stiff stainless steel wire to hold it down
like the fuel suction baffle is.  I'm going to check with a live stock
fencing company to see if they have the wire.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:44:14 -1000
From: "Dan RC30" <Danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about headlight bracket ?

Yes, the fascia has to be removed to access the headlamp brackets. When I 
put the custom headlights and brackets in my car this summer (pics are in 
the files on the e-groups site), I had to remove the hood to get to the 
fascia screws on top. It was easier that way. I also had to remove the nuts 
connecting the lower airdam to the fascia. I removed the whole airdam to 
make it easier. Be careful, you're gonna break a lot of bolts... You might 
even have to remove a nut that holds the fascia to the body near the upper 
part of the fender on each side. I know there's a bolt sticking out from the 
fascia, but I don't know if it was used with a nut on all the cars. It 
wasn't used on mine. I'm pretty sure that's about it. Good luck!

---Dan



Message: 25
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:51:31 -0000
From: "James Teston" <orentha_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: question about headlight bracket ?

I have to replace all my headlight brackets for my front headlights.
I've gotten everything taken out (it was a real pain considering
every screw was stripped and rusted out) except the main bracket
(part #101369).  It seems impossible to reach the screws for this
bracket without removing the front fascia??  It looks like the
opening where the headlights come out is too small to get this
bracket out.

So my question is this:  Do I have to remove fascia or anything to
get the screws out and to install a new bracket for my headlights ??

If so, does anyone have a step by step guide on how to remove it ? or
how I should go about this...

Any comments or ideas are appreciated.

Thanks,
James Teston
vin15314


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:04:22
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: DeLorean Vendors on DML


I think it's great that the DMC Vendors are in the process of really getting 
in on the DML. No, I'm not talking about their recent "disagreement/war of 
words" - I'm thinking of their actual involvement on the list. Let's look 
ahead to the future, let's co-operate both owners and vendors!

James started the list as we all know, then DMC Joe became the "regular" 
contributor of all the DeLorean Vendors, we have the online chats with 
Stephen, and most recently Rob reveal to us that he indeed reads the list, 
but understandably often is too busy to write to us on the list.

Daryll has also made valuable contributions to the list. The only other 
vendors which I haven't heard from are Ed and Don. I think it would be great 
if also these two came on the list. You are both most welcome!

I strongly feel that all of us (the owners) should encourage all the vendors 
to regularly take part in the DML's discussion. What about a weekly reply 
from all the vendors to all questions being raised the same week by us, the 
enthusiasts and owners?

I think that would be very interesting. Also, we could have an e-groups 
DML-chat where all the vendors were present. Imagine what an interesting 
discussion that would be!

Some may say that they are fighting over the same cake,maybe true, but in 
the end we are all on the same ship. We are in this together!

What if all the vendors co-operated on a few items? Like new windowswitches 
that are as big as the originals, not the newer smaller ones.

What may seem financially impossible to one vendor, may seem financially 
sound if all of them contributed to re-make the part. The parts may not been 
much cheaper to us, but there would be enough supply.

Finally, I want to say that I've done business with ALL the above-mentioned 
vendors because I feel it's important to support them.

I live in Norway, Europe, and although I could get a few parts cheaper over 
here I don't buy them (of course with a few exceptions like nuts and bolts) 
- I want to support the vendors because in the end it will be my DeLorean 
which will suffer if the vendors go out of business.

You can imagine my costs (parts price+shipping+customs)but I don't complain. 
You only live once.

Its a limited marked as we all know, so please - invest in your DeLorean by 
investing in the vendors. Have any of you thought of how lucky we are to 
have the DML?

Sure makes the world smaller, and with no factory support, I think this list 
is contributing to raise the DeLorean's reputation - and it's a damn good 
one I have to say!

Now, I hope to get lots of replies to my thoughts........Live the Dream!

(Hey, any option of purchasing stocks from any of you vendors?) :-)

Sincerely,
Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 6759 (w/parts from the USA and a few nuts and bolts from Norway)
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 08:46:44 -0600
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>
Subject: Re: John Delorean is not a failure???



JZD challenged big business in America,  Just like Tucker did.  They got rid of
Tucker the same way they got rid of John,  by false legal charges.  They
litigated both men into bankruptcy.

John tried to avoid the easy corruption and collution that got Tucker by
producing the car abroad.  BUT by the 80s,  big business in America had finally
been able to control the American president. (Reagan)  (they have even more
control now over Bush).


Reagan had England and Thatcher change the laws to force DMC into bankruptcy.
They changed the law only for the DMC company so that they could no longer book
the value of cars sold to dealers,  they had to be sold to private parties.
They went from $5,000,000 in the black to $15,000,000 in the red just by passing
a single new law to destroy DMC.

Worse yet, It cost the British tax payers more money to put 8000 workers on
unemployment than to keep DMC open.  Did this make any sense other than
corruption of politicians by big business.

John's idea of a 25 year warranteed vehicle scared the _at_dml_$&*  out of Detroit.
They conducted a study of what it would cost to produce a 20 year car (See
article in Popular Science) and found out that the manufacturing cost would
double.  (The major reason cars cost so much today, is that Detroit now builds
cars that easily last 20 years, but you pay the extra money, with the DMC you
would not have had to do this. )

John built a 25 year car for the same price. as Detroit's 10 year cars cost.  He
would have killed them in the market place.

America is no longer a free enterprise system and has not been since 1980.

Bob

PS,  If you think the free enterprise system let Bill Gates get rich,  remember
who his first contract was with that let him control the PC operating system
IBM!!!








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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:03:00 -0500
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: front lower control arms

I have read everything I could find in the back issues archive concerning
new front lower control arms that are made of aluminum.  There wasn't much
said.  Does anyone know anything about them?

My control arms were bent before I bought the car.  Apparently a tow truck
operator hooked on to them to tow the car.  The left side probably only has
cosmetic damage, but the right was bent enough to change the alignment
pretty far toe-out.  It can probably be straightened, but I would rather
replace it if it doesn't cost me an 'arm' and a 'leg'.

The only prices that I could find on anyone's web site were $0.00 and "-".
That sounds pretty cheap to me!

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:22:21 -0600
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: My opinion on how the D handles and East TN meeting

Aaron, A bunch of us have met for the Townsend TN "British Car Gathering"
held in late April, early May.  Bruce Battles spearheaded that gathering.
Bruce, perhaps you can give some details of this event for the rest of the
list.

Scott Mueller
DOA/DMCNEWS
002981


----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Posey <cadysrme_at_dml_yahoo.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 1:32 AM
Subject: [DML] My opinion on how the D handles and East TN meeting
> This brings me to another thought.  I have had a good
> number of responses for people wanting to meet in the East
> Tennessee area.  If anyone in KY,VA,NC,SC,GA,AL or anyone
> that wants to drive their D's to meet some owners and have
> a good time, just email me.  I am working on a location,
> date, and activities to do.  I would like to meet sometime
> before the end of February.  I have a teaser web page up at
>  www.etdoc.com  with a cool pic of my D in front of the
> sunsphere that was built for the 1982 World's Fair.
>
>
> Aaron





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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:58:05 -0600
From: Farrar Hudkins <smeghead79_at_dml_home.com>
Subject: Hello! And: Upcoming purchase ...

Hi!  A quick intoduction since I've never posted to the list before. 
I'm Farrar Hudkins, a musician and radio announcer in New Orleans.  But
enough about me.

Now, my question for you "experts" ...

I have saved for quite a while to get my "dream car," and I don't mind
doing work on it as I already have reliable transport.  (However my goal
is to have a "daily driver.")  I am considering purchasing a DeLorean
(late 81, automatic) from a private seller -- according to the owner,
who has not had it for a very long time and has no previous owner repair
records, the only thing it needs is a new exhaust manifold gasket. 
That's easy to replace, so I figured I would bring the gasket with me on
the plane and install it before I drive the car home.  However, the
drive home is several HUNDRED miles.  This car has close to 40,000 miles
on it so I assume that it has been driven enough to have avoided
"falling into decay."  My question is:  What else should I look for,
before I drive it home ... besides all the rubber bits.  After all, the
price is very attractive, and I can't help but be paranoid about getting
such a deal, and one drawback of getting a car that age with few miles
on it is disrepair ... 

Thanks in advance, and it's nice to be a part of the list I've been
reading archives of for a while.  :)

- Farrar Hudkins



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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:13:59 EST
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Jim Varney's "D"

Mark,
Jim Varney's Delorean was NOT turbo. I know as I looked over the motor before 
it was sold. It was stock, even down to the plastic overflow bottle. By the 
way it was an automatic! Where the 140mph came from is that the Delorean was 
rated full out at between 130 and 140 mph. They took it out and ran it full 
bore, then told people that it had to have ran "about" 140. As I posted 
before the current owner (at last count is a member of the DML list. If he 
wants he can confirm my above statements. Also Ken K. had a look at the car, 
(he also posted a few days ago), Ken am I wrong on this one? Mark, this was 
not to flame your posting, just to put away those urban legends that come up 
and over time people think are fact.
Bruce Battles
Vin# 06569


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:34:55 EST
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Jim Varney's "D"/ personal note

Mark,
Got to thinking, your statement may be true, IF Jim Varney had bought two 
Deloreans. The one I'm talking about was here in Gallatin,TN. I know the guy 
who had it and he was a friend of Jim Varney's. By the way Jim Varney lived 
in White House,TN. White House is about 15 miles from Gallatin. Hope this 
clears up part of the mystery.
DMLer's,
We are a very lucky in that we have the best sources of info with DMC Joe, 
Rob G., DMC Houston (James), Darrell T, and many others always willing to 
answer our questions. What other auto do you know that have such great 
sources at our finger tips? This forum is one that is open to all, we will 
disagree from time to time, but the fact that we all still respect each other 
and our views is what makes this list great. I for one welcome all postings, 
those that agree and those that don't. This is one way we all can learn.
Bruce Battles
VIN # 06569


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:19:34 EST
From: rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: A comment on metrics

Andy, my apologies! 
It was very obvious that you were referring to a "windage" measurement and I 
am sure that everybody that read your post, including me, was aware of that.
Two observations made me write what I did:
- After living in this country for 40 years and working all of them in one 
engineering capacity or another, I am still amazed that we are using the 
measurement of 1/2 of one of your old kings thumb as a basis for all length 
measurements! I still have problems with splitting fractions!
- After reading the avalance of opinions and increasingly derogatory comments 
regarding pro & con's of different brands and suppliers of suspension 
components, I thought it was time to enter a lighter subject!

I buy you a drink if we meet in Ireland!
:-)
Roger
  
In a message dated 1/13/01 7:37:54 AM Central Standard Time, Andy writes:


> um, ok.
> 
> when i said 1/4 cm i was not referring to any standarized measurement.  i 
> was 
> referring to a decal being off-center by about ONE FOURTH of a centimeter.  
> it's not like i measured it with a ruler, i just gave an estimate.  i was 
> going to say 1/4 inch off, but then i decided that was too much, so i went 
> down to 1/4 cm.  fair enough?
> 
> i would never go to a hardware store and ask for a 1/4 cm bolt.  i simply 
> meant a fraction of a centimeter. 
> 
> Andy
> 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:21:18 -0600
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: One More thought on the D's doors AND more


John Delorean Originally was going to have a stainless steel frame.  He
even made a speach about it stating that "even Rolls Royce doesn't do
that."  In the same speech he talked about the 25 year warrantee. Exactly
why the car  was not built without a stainless frame is not documented to
my knowledge.

Rumors though are:

1. Difficulting in welding stainless.  The weld are not longer
stainless.  Some rust problem could have occurred. there.
2. Stress at the weld joints.  THese would have to be heat relieved.
(A lot more is now know about welding stainless than was known in 1979.
That is why Brian Pearce has been able to develop the SS frame.   On the
other hand Brian and His dad are really great engineers and this may be
the best expanation.


3. Possible concern about brittleness  in the cold weather. (I don;t
believe this one.)






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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 22:25:02 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Re: front lower control arms

Walt,
I had the same problem with my lower front control arms. I brought 
them to Rob at PJ Grady to get new bushings pressed in. After just 
glancing at them he said that the arms looked bent. He then compared 
them to a NOS one he had and indeed they were. They are VERY hard to 
find and if you do find them they are VERY expensive. My suggestion, 
send them on over to Rob, let him look at them and see if he can 
straighten them out for you. He fixed mine! :)

Steve

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I have read everything I could find in the back issues archive 
concerning
> new front lower control arms that are made of aluminum.  There 
wasn't much
> said.  Does anyone know anything about them?
> 
> My control arms were bent before I bought the car.  Apparently a 
tow truck
> operator hooked on to them to tow the car.  The left side probably 
only has
> cosmetic damage, but the right was bent enough to change the 
alignment
> pretty far toe-out.  It can probably be straightened, but I would 
rather
> replace it if it doesn't cost me an 'arm' and a 'leg'.
> 
> The only prices that I could find on anyone's web site were $0.00 
and "-".
> That sounds pretty cheap to me!
> 
> Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 16
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:06:27 -0500
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Hello! And: Upcoming purchase ...

I wish you luck with your coming purchase.  I bought my Delorean in a
similar situation.  I live in Tampa and found a nice Delorean for sale in
Ft. Pierce (just north of Ft. Lauderdale on the east coast).  I drove over
with a friend to check it out.  I bought it from a dealer who only owned it
for a short time and would/could not tell me anything about the previous
owner.  The car had less than 9K miles on it.  It was very clean and had no
weather related deterioration.  I bought the car (for $17.5K) and took turns
with my friend driving it home a few hundred miles away.

In city traffic it overheated, but not bad.  I was watching the gauge most
of the time.  It turns out that the electrical system in the car had never
been upgraded, and it had a bad relay.  This was the night before the drive
home.  With nothing but a volt meter I bought at Radio Shack for this
purpose, I found the problem and hot-wired the fans to always stay on.  The
rest of the trip home was uneventful except for the fun!

If you have very far to drive with your new Delorean, I recommend having a
driver who can deliver you to pick it up and then follow you home.  I would
plan on the other car being an SUV that can tow a car dolly if necessary.  I
would bring a full complement of tools and an extra battery & jumper cables
as well as some jugs of water in case the cooling system leaks.

If this car is not a daily driver, then expect little things to keep going
wrong with it until it does become a daily driver.  The Delorean is full of
factory weak spots and defects as well as more problems that will come about
because of the car's age.  Generally, problems like this are not fixed until
AFTER they become a problem.  So unless these things have already broke and
been repaired on your car, then chances are they are getting ready to break.
Since the car you are buying already as 40K miles, most of OEM problems
should be resolved by now.  When I bought my car, I had no idea what I was
getting into since there were a lot of (and still a lot of) things that need
to be fixed.  So far, my Delorean has never left me stranded (yet -- but
knock on stainless).  I have put 4400 miles on it in the past 11 months
since I bought it.  I would have done more than double that if I could keep
it running well enough.  If I spent half the time working on the car that I
spent on reading DML backissues and Delorean related web sites then I would
have a full restoration done by now!  But I need the knowledge first.  It's
strange how this knowledge is mostly only available on line or by word of
mouth from a vendor.

Also some more advice:  Have the service manuals with you.  If a set doesn't
come with the car, then buy some from your favorite vendor.  And keep their
phone numbers handy on your trip home.  I would establish contact with some
of the better vendors and make an appointment with them to be on call while
you are on the road.  (Fat chance, but worth a try.)  I suggest considering
DMC Joe and Rob at PJ Grady.  DMC Houston may be of help too.  Delorean One
is almost always too busy. ;)

I recommend saving the exhaust manifold gasket replacement for until after
you get the car home.  The main problem with a bad gasket is the loud
tap-tap-tap noise it makes.  I don't think this is anything real bad except
it is annoying to listen to.  It may also allow exhaust gases to linger
where they don't belong.  To take the manifold loose, you need to soak the
studs with a penetrating solvent for a few days to help stop them from
breaking off.  You might break some anyway and then you will have to drill
them out -- fun, fun -- not something you want to try with a car before you
take it home for the first time.

Gook luck,
Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 17
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:35:23 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: A comment on metrics

In a message dated 1/13/01 3:48:23 PM Central Standard Time, rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com 
writes:


> Andy, my apologies! 
> It was very obvious that you were referring to a "windage" measurement and 
> I 
> am sure that everybody that read your post, including me, was aware of that.
> Two observations made me write what I did:
> - After living in this country for 40 years and working all of them in one 
> engineering capacity or another, I am still amazed that we are using the 
> measurement of 1/2 of one of your old kings thumb as a basis for all length 
> measurements! I still have problems with splitting fractions!
> - After reading the avalance of opinions and increasingly derogatory 
> comments 
> regarding pro & con's of different brands and suppliers of suspension 
> components, I thought it was time to enter a lighter subject!
> 
> I buy you a drink if we meet in Ireland!
> :-)
> Roger
> 

Well Roger, 

I live in Fargo, North Dakota and i will probably never go to ireland.  but 
you sure can send me a bottle of scotch if you really are serious!  j/k

i agree - this list is getting a little dramatic at times!!  let's face it - 
opinions will always dominate the world!

Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 18
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:41:18 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: John Delorean is not a failure???

In a message dated 1/13/01 4:31:14 PM Central Standard Time, oehcs_at_dml_flash.net 
writes:


> John built a 25 year car for the same price. as Detroit's 10 year cars cost. 
>  He
> would have killed them in the market place.
> 
> America is no longer a free enterprise system and has not been since 1980.
> 
> 

i disagree.  DeLorean never really did stand much of a chance, in my opinion. 
 at least not at 30,000 cars per year.  admittedly, the laws did condemn the 
company, but even if they hadn't, i don't think a $25,000 grand touring car 
could of ever made a significant impact in GM sales.  the DeLorean simply 
didn't DELIVER when it came down to the important factors in that era, for 
the asking price.  it's suckers like us who don't care!  we just love the 
car, regardless of the price.

but then again, you could argue why the price went that high anyway - maybe 
at $12,000 a car, GM would have had something to worry about.

Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 19
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:46:12 -0800
From: "Lance B. Bowman" <spaceace_at_dml_qx.net>
Subject: Kentucky Delorean

Hi again!

 Does anyone know the guy who owns a Delorean with the liscense plate
"MCFLY"? I saw it at a gas station a few months ago, and that prompted
my search for the car. I live in Winchester, KY.

 Ummm...also..the two gentleman who offered to let me come and look at
thier Deloreans..could you please write back? I've lost my address book
and mail due to the yearly reformat I find myself doing after DirectX
SDK's wreck my windows/system.:P

Lance





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Message: 20
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:35:50 -0600
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>
Subject: Re: Jim Varney's "D"/ personal note

Cool. I was impressed that the guy at Motorvation even knew Jim Varney had a
delorean. He mentioned it when I saw the parts, but not appearing to me to
be the most credible repair person I'd ever met I gave it little thought
until I learned years later that Jim did, indeed, have one.

Maybe two, eh? Probably not...
I do know Martorvation turbo'd a few..maybe Jim got a quote and his name got
dropped :-)

Thanks for the update, Bruce.

\\Mark




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Message: 21
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:05:18 -0800
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: John Delorean is not a failure???

The U.S. economy was in a recession and car sales were down a whopping 40%.
A sportscar with a price tag of $25,000 in 1981 had no chance in an economy
like that. I think the Thatcher role had more to do with British politics
regarding Northern Ireland than it did with favors to Ronald Reagan.

Bruce Benson



> JZD challenged big business in America,  Just like Tucker did.  They got
rid of
> Tucker the same way they got rid of John,  by false legal charges.  They
> litigated both men into bankruptcy.
> Reagan had England and Thatcher change the laws to force DMC into
bankruptcy.
> John built a 25 year car for the same price. as Detroit's 10 year cars
cost.  He
> would have killed them in the market place.
>
> America is no longer a free enterprise system and has not been since 1980.
>
> Bob





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Message: 22
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:02:15 -0600
From: "Kevin Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: Tire poll results

The results of the tire poll were poor. Only five responses, including my judgement of my new tires.
Thanks so much for going out of your way for other's future needs. (sarcasm there, ok?)
BTW- like many elections people voted for more than one. However, it was encouraged. :)
Grading Scale:
5 =EXCEPTIONAL; 4 = Great for the money; 3 =  Satisfactory; 2 = Will Do;
1 = Pass It by Unless in Dire Straits; -1 = Don't Go There
Tire Manu/Style                        Grade    Votes received.
Yokohama AVS Intermediates:    5            1
BFG/Radial T/A Enhanced            4            1
Michelin/??                                4            1
Firestone/??                                2            1
Goodyear/??                                1            1
Lee/TurboActionPerformanceRadials 4        1
Goodyear Vector                         4            1
Pirelli 600                                     5            1
Also a secondhand report of Coopers that would evaluate to a possible 4 or 5.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 23
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 02:15:52 -0000
From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Tire poll results

I didn't even realize that there was a poll for tires!

-Robert
vin 6585


-- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Kevin Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> The results of the tire poll were poor. Only five responses,
<SNIP>




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Message: 24
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:43:11 -0500
From: "Vicky Miller" <delo1_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Resposnse to Suspension by James Espey

In support of Rob Gradys comments, I have been a GM mechanic for 30 years
and never had but 1 set of springs fail on a vehicle.
This was after a major accident, they will settle
over the course of time.  ie.200/000miles.The springs on the dmc cars that i
have worked on only fail when some one trys to tamper with them
/heating/cutting. the comment about defective steel is bunk. i have a set of
robs springs on the front  my dmc they work great. i saw no need to lower
the rear. the car sets perfect now. i have worked on all types of vehicles
in my lifetyme as a mechanic/ comments about handling/suspension/alignment
should be left to professional mechanics. i can work on my own car/ can
you?????? bob miller




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Message: 25
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:51:38 -1000
From: "Dan RC30" <Danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: An end to the shock and spring debacle? (another volley) - and a Poll...

There's nothing like a good debate on the DML...

snip--->"Dan, my words were "outhandles any car in it's class", and I am   
referring to the cars the DeLorean was compared against at   introduction in 
1981. And 'as well as' many modern cars, I did not   say it outhandled them, 
like you said I did."

The DeLorean is a 20 year old design. Let's be realistic. Even with upgraded 
suspension, it cannot match the handling of modern cars in it's class. The 
DeLorean outhandle the Audi TT? Not a chance... no matter how many Audi's 
were rolled. As a matter of fact, I almost purchased a DeLorean years ago 
that was rolled back in 1982. It sat in a salvage yard for years. I didn't 
buy it because it was too much money for the amount of damage it sustained. 
So, DeLoreans aren't immune to rolling either. Like I said previously, the 
Porsche 944 I owned years ago would run circles around the DeLorean in 
handling. And I believe I can say this with some authority. Anyone who has 
driven with me on any car rallies knows my style of driving. Although I 
don't "abuse" my car, I push it to it's limits. And I have 16"/17" combo 
wheels on my car with Pirelli p7000 tires on them. I've felt the front end 
slide... I've felt bodyroll... the rear of the car is just too heavy to 
outperform the modern cars in it's class today. Again I say, I LOVE my 
DeLorean, but it is what it is... and no front spring kit, nor all 4 spring 
kit with any type of shock combination will have such an effect on it that 
it will rival todays autos in it's class.


snip--->"Geez, in writing? I'm sure that it was documented like 
this..."Colin   thinks the DMC-12 outhandles the Esprit, wants it changed so 
it's   worse. Don't tell JZD." Be realistic. I do solemnly swear that this   
is the story that was related to us by former engineers involved in   the 
DeLorean project."

You mean to tell me that Lotus, the little company that cuts corners on 
their earlier cars to save a buck, spent money on making the DeLorean handle 
worse? I severely doubt that. Also, that the same engineers that designed 
the Lotus Esprit, accidentally made a heavier, rear-engined DeLorean handle 
better? Sounds like a tongue-in-cheek comment made by Mr. Chapman to me. :-P


snip--->"Seems like you're trying to smear me with a pretty wide brush, 
there,   Dan. That's not very nice."

I'm not trying to smear anyone with any brush James. I was just stating my 
opinion as I see it from my point of view. I disagree with your analyses 
here, and I opened them up to debate. Look at the next statement by you 
James... Is that not making a "wide brush stroke?" I'm suprised that the 
moderators allowed such an accusatory, and unfounded statement to pass 
through to the list. Your quote follows here:

snip--->". It's when people like Steve, Gary, and now,   Dan, take it 
personal and begin to make veiled (and even open)   accusations that it 
denigrates the spirit and intent of the DeLorean   Mailing List."

Was that comment not "denigrating?" And who's taking things personal here?

I do believe you were, and still are exaggerating about how well DMC 
Houstons kit will make a DeLorean perform. I never said DMC Houston's 
suspension kit wasn't quality. I never once questioned the kit as you did to 
PJ Grady's. As a matter of fact, I'm sure it's not something of inferior 
quality! As a matter of fact, I doubt ANY vendor would supply the DeLorean 
community with a "substandard" part. In such a small community of owners, 
and now with the internet, that would be business suicide. I just have a 
problem with you portraying the suspension kit to be something it's not.

Since I have been following your updates on the high performance motor DMC 
Houston is going to be offering, I take the performance of such important 
items in the DeLorean, like its suspension and engine, very seriously and 
like to know exactly how such components perform when modified. Those that 
know my car, know I am certainly into modifying the DeLorean to perform 
better in every area possible. As we all know, the DeLorean lacks power. 
I've looked into many alternatives to the original motor to get more power 
out of my car, and honestly, DMC Houston's motor is one that is, and has 
continually been considered as an option by me for my own car. I think it's 
a valid possible conclusion, since I'm seeking a higher output of power from 
my car. So, I feel my question was a valid one. I'm sorry you didn't see it 
that way.

Let's see what the rest of the DeLorean owners think. I have created a poll 
on the e-groups site. I think we all know that upgraded spring and shock 
tecnology will improve the DeLoreans handling, so, that's the the question 
here. The question asks, "Do you think that a Delorean made in 1981, 1982, 
or 1983, with new upgraded lowering springs and shocks fitted to it, which 
will increase handling performance, can outhandle an AUDI TT made in the 
year of 2000, or 2001." Answer yes, or no. Now, I will abstain from this 
vote since everyone knows how I feel, and I'll ask that only legitimate 
DML'ers only vote once. Now, I'm taking a chance here since I realize that 
anyone could get all of their friends to vote their way, or use multiple 
names they have to sway the vote in their favor, but I'm hoping that this 
will not happen, and people will be honest so we can find out the true 
opinion of the people in the DeLorean committee. IT'S ON YOUR HONOR FOLKS! 
Your identity WILL be revealed in this poll, so if we see a lot of 
identities that nobody recognizes, or ones that have just signed up all of a 
sudden, we'll know that there is bias here. I don't want bias either way. I 
want an honest vote! This is my first poll ever, and I'd like to to be 
correct. Results will be poted to the DML at the end of voting on January 
27th. So, you have two weeks to place your vote. Thank you.

Vote early, vote honest.

---Dan Vin#5493


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