From: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 367
Date: Monday, January 15, 2001 5:52 PM

Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
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To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. DeLorean mentioned in Popular Mechanics
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fisherdesign.com>

2. Re: John Delorean is not a failure???
From: "William H. Swilley" <billswilley_at_dml_hotmail.com>

3. Re: Digest Number 365
From: rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com

4. Springs and Schocks and Autocross.
From: "Chris C" <petleech_at_dml_aol.com>

5. Re: Jim Varney's "D"
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

6. Jim Varney's "D" ( Final Word )
From: "Brandon" <bsmoody_at_dml_kih.net>

7. Re: Digest Number 366
From: "Mike Cutting" <mcutting_at_dml_nt.net>

8. Re: Re: An end to the shock and spring debacle? (another volley) - and a Poll...
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>

9. RE: Jim Varney's "D"
From: "Jack & Virginia Stiefel" <stiefel_at_dml_minalco.com>

10. Re: Springs and Schocks and Autocross.
From: "Tamir Ardon" <tamir_at_dml_entermyworld.com>

11. Re: Re: An end to the shock and spring debacle? (another volley) - and a Poll...
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

12. Re: Digest Number 365
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com

13. Attn: Walt in Tampa, FL (14Jan2001)
From: Farrar Hudkins <smeghead79_at_dml_home.com>

14. Towing v. Driving with a bad ex. man. gasket ... :\
From: Farrar Hudkins <smeghead79_at_dml_home.com>

15. Where to put an antenna...
From: Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>

16. Re: An end to the shock
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

17. Emissions test and Transmission damage?
From: nbrommer_at_dml_krem.com

18. Stainless Steel Frame
From: "John Dore" <dmcjohn_at_dml_hotmail.com>

19. Re: Errata...
From: Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>

20. Ram Air? (Was: Water in the...)
From: Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>

21. Varney / 140 mph
From: "Drinkware" <marvin_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>

22. suspension, handling and other points of contention.
From: "Todd Connors" <TCConnors_at_dml_id.cncdsl.com>

23. Re: loose steering column
From: Stephen Jarvis <jarvist_at_dml_mindspring.com>

24. Re: Towing v. Driving
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

25. Re: Stainless Steel Frame
From: Mark Fearer <mfearer_at_dml_mail.fearernet.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 23:25:24 -0500
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fisherdesign.com>
Subject: DeLorean mentioned in Popular Mechanics

List,
    Jay Leno has been running a column in Popular Mechanics for the past
year or so, and this month he mentions the DeLorean.  It's just in
passing, but it's a mention none-the-less.  Sadly he chose to perpetuate
the lies about John DeLorean and cocaine trafficking.  The line reads as
follows:
        "In my job, people all across the country see me and they know I
like cars.  So they write to me...blah, blah, blah...some guy will send
me a letter saying that he's got "the actual DeLorean that was used to
ship the cocaine.  And I want $450,000 for it.""
    I say he perpetuates the lies because even though it's written in a
way that makes it sound like he knows better than to believe that
whopper of a letter, he says nothing to defend John DeLorean and the
truth.  Not to say he had to, but it sure would have been nice.
    On another note, there was an article in a recent issue of
Automobile Weekly about DeLorean's new car and watch entitled, "DeLorean
Does Time".  Hilarious in itself, I know, (note sarcasm) but the whole
article seems to take a "haha, lets laugh at JZD's expense and dismiss
his innovative ideas for no good reason" tone.
    I have to take a deep breath every time I see articles like these
and try to convince myself that there is no such thing as bad press.
    Good luck with your new car John, let's make these morons look
really bad soon!!
        Josh Haldeman
        VIN 5102
        VIN 15964




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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 04:46:04
From: "William H. Swilley" <billswilley_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: John Delorean is not a failure???

<The U.S. economy was in a recession and car sales were down a <whopping 
40%.
<,A sportscar with a price tag of $25,000 in 1981 had no chance in an 
<economy like that.

Not to mention the interest rates at the time.  I still cringe thinking of 
the 17% interest note on my DeLorean, purchased in March of '82!

Bill Swilley
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 04:05:25 EST
From: rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Digest Number 365

In a message dated 1/13/01 10:26:40 PM Central Standard Time, Dan writes:


> "Do you think that a Delorean made in 1981, 1982, 
> or 1983, with new upgraded lowering springs and shocks fitted to it, which 
> will increase handling performance, can outhandle an AUDI TT made in the 
> 

I disqualify myself from voting on the grounds that I have no experience 
whatsoever with an AUDI TT, in fact I wouldn't recognize one if I saw it!
Secondly; there is no definition on 'outhandle'. A slalom course? A road race 
track? A go cart track? Panic stops? Acceleration? Deceleration? Skid pad?
Maybe a handling test similar to what Car & Driver, Popular Science and 
others run?

(I read an article in a DeLorean World magazine by a guy that took his D to a 
race drivers school and got whipped soundly the first day, but on day 3 he 
had both Corvettes and Ferraris behind him!)

This argument can not be settled with words!
Gentlemen, I think it is time for a duel! (D vs. Audi, not Don vs. James!)
Roger



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:24:52 -0000
From: "Chris C" <petleech_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Springs and Schocks and Autocross.

I'd have to agree with the claim that the DeLorean can outhandle the 
AUdi TT and the LOtus Esprit. Case and Point-NASA Autocross at 
Virginia Motorsports park as of Jan 13, Yesterday. When pushing the 
DeLorean car to its limits it always FEELS as though the rear end 
will slide out, but its extremely difficult to ever get the rear to 
acutally slide out and its never happened to me. The Lotus, while 
being a great car, exhibits too much body roll and seems to slip 
everywhere on the track (Not to mention it broke down in the 1st heat)
THe Audi TT has vital flaws as well, its front wheel drive. WHen you 
push the car hard the front tires are gripping around the bends but 
the rear doesn't follow, instead, like most front wheel drive cars 
"Its difficult to oush hard around the bends and is very tail happy".




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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 08:45:45 EST
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Jim Varney's "D"

In a message dated 1/13/01 4:46:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com writes:

<< Jim Varney's Delorean was NOT turbo. I know as I looked over the motor 
before 
 it was sold. It was stock, even down to the plastic overflow bottle. By the 
 way it was an automatic!
snip
. Also Ken K. had a look at the car, 
 (he also posted a few days ago), Ken am I wrong on this one? 
 Bruce Battles >>


The car was stock as you stated Brandon bought it a few days after so I never 
had a chance to get it.

It was in h orrible shape 
I didn't even notice the transmission because of all the junk piled over the 
shifter and the dash was disassembled.  I looked at it as a total restoration 
and I was going to use it to rebuild as a custom car engine and all.  Instead 
i went concourse.

Ken



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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 12:25:17 -0500
From: "Brandon" <bsmoody_at_dml_kih.net>
Subject: Jim Varney's "D" ( Final Word )

Ok, Ken is correct.  I am now the registered owner of the car
and it is NOT a Turbo car. It was not modified in anyway and
was completely stock.  It was in horrible shape from sitting
outdoors for several years.  Very late 81 Build , Grey interior,
Automatic.  The car has been used as a " parts car " to supply
other " projects ".

-Brandon





<< Jim Varney's Delorean was NOT turbo. I know as I looked over the motor
before
 it was sold. It was stock, even down to the plastic overflow bottle. By the
 way it was an automatic!
snip
. Also Ken K. had a look at the car,
 (he also posted a few days ago), Ken am I wrong on this one?
 Bruce Battles >>




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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 12:57:28 -0500
From: "Mike Cutting" <mcutting_at_dml_nt.net>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 366

greetings...

> I thought the Ds top speed was 120 tops and really was about 115 stock so
thats a far cry from 140


well, the top test speed on the d was 130 mph.  i got this information from
a poster that i bought in 1983.  the poster also lists other info such as
engine size, horse power, 0-60 time, and list price.  i have seen a scan of
it online in the past.  it's a 3/4 shot of the passenger side of the car
with the doors open.

just thought that i would pass this along...

:)
mike cutting
11434
www.nt.net/~mcutting




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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 11:25:08 -0800
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Re: An end to the shock and spring debacle? (another volley) - and a Poll...


Which ever way this vote goes, it's only an opinion pole and hardly
represents anything based on real world comparisons on the skid pad or the
road.  It won't prove a thing. I happen to have Rob's 2" lowering springs in
the front of my car ( I don't believe Rob sell the 2"" springs any longer )
and I have stock springs in the rear with Marty's shock kit  which allowed
me to lower the rear also. I'm completely satisfied. I have a friend with
the DeLorean Motor Company springs all the way around and I must say I like
the aggressive look the car took on. As to which I'd rather have, I'll keep
what I have because I have it and like it. I was moderating when James
initial post came through and in hind sight I wish I would have returned it
to him for editing. I'll bet James shares that wish. Sometimes it's easy to
get carried away at the key board because there's no one in front of you to
answer to and it's easy to forget there are 1,000 folks out there that will
read and criticize what you write. I've been guilty of that many times as
have many of  you. I'd like to suggest that we all accept the fact that our
enthusiasm can, at times, outrun our better judgment and that we return to
enjoying the fact we have this avenue to share our interests in the
DeLorean.

Bruce Benson

>The question asks, "Do you think that a Delorean made in 1981, 1982,
> or 1983, with new upgraded lowering springs and shocks fitted to it, which
> will increase handling performance, can outhandle an AUDI TT made in the
> year of 2000, or 2001." Answer yes, or no. Now, I will abstain from this
> vote since everyone knows how I feel, and I'll ask that only legitimate
> DML'ers only vote once.  This is my first poll ever, and I'd like to to be
> correct. Results will be poted to the DML at the end of voting on January
> 27th. So, you have two weeks to place your vote. Thank you.
>
> Vote early, vote honest.
>
> ---Dan Vin#5493





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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:22:05 -0500
From: "Jack & Virginia Stiefel" <stiefel_at_dml_minalco.com>
Subject: RE: Jim Varney's "D"

I cannot say for sure, but what I have heard was that the automatic might be
the 115 MPH, and a 5 speed is about 130-140...  Don't call me on it if I am
wrong, I am only referencing what I was told once or twice.

Jack & Virginia Stiefel
'81 DeLorean Vin 03461 August  1981 Build NYS Lic: 1981 DMC
'97 Red BMW Z3 Convertible 2.8 6 Cyl -- not the baby 4
'99 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer Edition
'01 Black PT Cruiser Limited w/ Flames
Visit us at www.sacketmansion.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Gabe [mailto:thecreech_at_dml_home.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 11:12 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Jim Varney's "D"


I thought the Ds top speed was 120 tops and really was about 115 stock so
thats a far cry from 140



----- Original Message -----
From: <abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] Jim Varney's "D"


> Mark,
> Jim Varney's Delorean was NOT turbo. I know as I looked over the motor
before
> it was sold. It was stock, even down to the plastic overflow bottle. By
the
> way it was an automatic! Where the 140mph came from is that the Delorean
was
> rated full out at between 130 and 140 mph. They took it out and ran it
full
> bore, then told people that it had to have ran "about" 140. As I posted
> before the current owner (at last count is a member of the DML list. If he
> wants he can confirm my above statements. Also Ken K. had a look at the
car,
> (he also posted a few days ago), Ken am I wrong on this one? Mark, this
was
> not to flame your posting, just to put away those urban legends that come
up
> and over time people think are fact.
> Bruce Battles
> Vin# 06569
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>



Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com





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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:36:56 -0800
From: "Tamir Ardon" <tamir_at_dml_entermyworld.com>
Subject: Re: Springs and Schocks and Autocross.

I will not add to this argument about what car will outhandle what, but I
want to note a correction in this post.  Depending on what Audi TT you get,
it can either be Quattro (4 wheel drive) or Front wheel drive.  Whoever has
driven in a 4 - wheel drive sports car on the list can probably comment on
how awesome it is.  This is a factor that can play a big PART in handling,
trust me.  My Dad's car is an Audi S4, best car I have ever driven in terms
of handling and acceleration, it has 4 - wheel drive.

Regards,
Tamir
http://www.entermyworld.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris C" <petleech_at_dml_aol.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 5:24 AM
Subject: [DML] Springs and Schocks and Autocross.


> I'd have to agree with the claim that the DeLorean can outhandle the
> AUdi TT and the LOtus Esprit. Case and Point-NASA Autocross at
> Virginia Motorsports park as of Jan 13, Yesterday. When pushing the
> DeLorean car to its limits it always FEELS as though the rear end
> will slide out, but its extremely difficult to ever get the rear to
> acutally slide out and its never happened to me. The Lotus, while
> being a great car, exhibits too much body roll and seems to slip
> everywhere on the track (Not to mention it broke down in the 1st heat)
> THe Audi TT has vital flaws as well, its front wheel drive. WHen you
> push the car hard the front tires are gripping around the bends but
> the rear doesn't follow, instead, like most front wheel drive cars
> "Its difficult to oush hard around the bends and is very tail happy".
>
>
>
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>




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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:59:37 -0600
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Re: An end to the shock and spring debacle? (another volley) - and a Poll...

SNIPED
> Let's see what the rest of the DeLorean owners think. I have created a
poll
> on the e-groups site. I think we all know that upgraded spring and shock
> tecnology will improve the DeLoreans handling, so, that's the the question
> here. The question asks, "Do you think that a Delorean made in 1981, 1982,
> or 1983, with new upgraded lowering springs and shocks fitted to it, which
> will increase handling performance, can outhandle an AUDI TT made in the
> year of 2000, or 2001." Answer yes, or no. Now, I will abstain from this
> vote since everyone knows how I feel, and I'll ask that only legitimate
> DML'ers only vote once. Now, I'm taking a chance here since I realize that
> anyone could get all of their friends to vote their way, or use multiple
> names they have to sway the vote in their favor, but I'm hoping that this
> will not happen, and people will be honest so we can find out the true
> opinion of the people in the DeLorean committee. IT'S ON YOUR HONOR FOLKS!
> Your identity WILL be revealed in this poll, so if we see a lot of
> identities that nobody recognizes, or ones that have just signed up all of
a
> sudden, we'll know that there is bias here. I don't want bias either way.
I
> want an honest vote! This is my first poll ever, and I'd like to to be
> correct. Results will be poted to the DML at the end of voting on January
> 27th. So, you have two weeks to place your vote. Thank you.
>
> Vote early, vote honest.
>
> ---Dan Vin#5493

Dan, I sure hope that none of the poll workers in Florida will be involved
in the counting of these votes ; )
Scott Mueller
DOA/DMCNEWS
002981





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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:05:21 EST
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Digest Number 365

Amen.
Bruce Battles
Vin# 06569


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:43:27 -0600
From: Farrar Hudkins <smeghead79_at_dml_home.com>
Subject: Attn: Walt in Tampa, FL (14Jan2001)

Hi Walt,
	Thanks for the advice on the exhaust manifold gasket.  I have since
talked to the seller and he admits that "it runs but sounds like a
Volkswagen." As I once rode in a VW Bus I have some familiarity with the
sound ... well, perhaps I can turn the radio up.  ;)
	I DO know a professional mechanic, who lives in Jacksonville, FL and
may not have the time to come with me and inspect the car and drive back
with me.  He has restored two DeLoreans (one was completely undriveable
-- apparently had been gutted for parts [hoses, harnesses, etc] and he
grudgingly installed, at the owner's request, a GMC 350 in it, even
though the guy who bought it had it towed to his garage and never drove
it with the current engine) and therefore is my greatest source of
information about this car.  Well, until I found this list.  This list
has already been very helpful (I'm halfway through the back issues on
the website) and I imagine it will continue to be handy.  My guess is I
will have less contact with my mechanic friend as my sister has recently
divorced him.  *chuckle*
	At any rate, I have several "mechanically inclined" friends who would
be glad of the journey.
	I have already downloaded and printed out the entire service manual and
the technical bulletin from the website.  (Glad I have a duplex-enabled
Laserjet at work and not too many people there on Saturday!)  HOWEVER, I
would like to know if there is any way to get a copy of the OTHER
service bulletins ... The one about the leaks will serve me well, this
being New Orleans which is rather wet usually, and I'm sure the others
have pertinent information which may or may not have been done on this
vehicle.  The VIN is under 1000 so I imagine there are many needed
"updates" ... unless they were already done by the previous owner (I
have asked the current owner to check for these updates).
	And Thank You, THANK YOU for the list of "extras" to bring with me.  I
figured I would bring some tools, but I tend to have better hindsight
than foresight.  I might even keep track of any Radio Shacks I pass on
the way home.  ;)
	The last time I saw a DeLorean, I was much younger and less interested
(perhaps I should give away my youth at this point - I'm barely 22) so I
didn't bother to check if I could see most of what I needed to see
underneath the car without jacking it up.  Should I bring jacks along to
inspect the frame?  I understand the service hatch in the trunk can be
used to check the brake cylinders, etc. but not sure what else can be
seen.  Perhaps I'll learn more as I read the most recent two years of
the list.  :)
	Enough verbosity for one Sunday afternoon; just wanted to say Thanks!
	Now, I'm trying to find out about insuring the thing.  To quote Sam
Beckett ... "Oh boy."
	Thanks again, Walt, and thanks in advance to you other kind folks who
continue to Live The Dream.  :)  "May the wind be at our backs." 

- Farrar Hudkins



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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 16:05:34 -0600
From: Farrar Hudkins <smeghead79_at_dml_home.com>
Subject: Towing v. Driving with a bad ex. man. gasket ... :\

Thanks, David ...
	Hmm.  Now I am pondering transport for the vehicle.  I'd hate to do
that if the car runs, though ...
	I'll keep it in mind.  :)

Regards,
Farrar Hudkins

>    From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
> Subject: Re: Hello!  And:  Upcoming purchase ...
> 
> I agree with most everything that Walter says except it is probably
> better to just plan to tow the car. If it is a 5 speed then towing on
[snip!]



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Message: 15
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:12:44 +0100
From: Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>
Subject: Where to put an antenna...

Hello everyone,

I've got a fairly simple question;
This afternoon I fitted a Carkit to my "D" for
my Cellular Phone. Mounting was easy, I'll post
some pictures on the net soon.

I used a bracket that fits behind the radio
(aftermarket) to install the holder for the handset,
but this automatically means the standard antenna
of the phone is only 5 or 6 inches away from the radio.
Now when I (get a) call the digital signal of the cell-phone
is heard over the Stereo-speakers as an annoying buzzing sound.

I had the same problem on my Escort and solved it by fitting 
an external on the roof in the hole for the original roof-top
model (I fitted an electrical retracting antenna for the radio
on that one earlier).

I'd like to put an external antenna on the "D" too,
but -unlike on the Escort- I don't want to make a hole
in the T-panel. I've looked at a Glass-antenna (with a whip on
the outside and a reciever on the inside of the windshield), 
but this looks rather ugly.
I've also considered putting it on the enginecover, but I'm
afraid the metal surrounding it then (edges of quarterpanels)
would interfere with reception...

Does anyone have any other ideas or experiences???
Please let me know.

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

check out the Delorean-Files at:
http://www.deloreanfiles.nl/
------------------------------




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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 03:00:09 -0000
From: "jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net " <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: An end to the shock

I find this whole debate about handling very esoteric and amusing. 
Most drivers who push their car to the limits to explore the finer 
points in handling eventualy get into trouble so most wouldn't know 
what if any real improvements are to be gained by whatever way you 
change the springs or the height or the shocks. The Delorean can be 
more car in handling respects then most drivers can exploit. Even the 
stock setup is superior to most (90%) of the cars on the road from 
1980 even to now especially considering the price ranges of the cars 
some people have compared the Delorean to. Admitidly the acceleration 
could be improved but in the handling department there is little to
be 
gained and then only at the limits of driveabiliy where most drivers 
have no buisiness being. Change the static height if you must but
then 
you MUST have the car realighned. If you change the rear height and 
increase the angles on the half shafts you will work them harder ie 
they will bump more and wear out faster and transmit less power. As 
with anything in life there are always tradeoffs and compromises.
 A customer once asked what it takes to go faster? The answer is
MONEY 
how much do you want to spend? The last little bit costs a whole lot 
more then the first 50%.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> 
> Which ever way this vote goes, it's only an opinion pole and hardly
> represents anything based on real world comparisons on the skid pad 
or the
> road.  It won't prove a thing



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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 06:46:40 -0000
From: nbrommer_at_dml_krem.com
Subject: Emissions test and Transmission damage?

The prior owner of my car (in california) claimed that the emissions test destroyed his transmission. Subsequently, the transmission was replaced so my car has a new transmission. However, I'm wondering if there was any truth to his statement. I live in Washington State, where I will soon be putting the car through an emission test. Any thoughts?



Nick

3092




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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:52:01 -0000
From: "John Dore" <dmcjohn_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Stainless Steel Frame

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_f...> wrote:
> 
> John Delorean Originally was going to have a stainless steel 
frame.  Exactly
> why the car  was not built without a stainless frame is not 
documented to
> my knowledge.

On the subject of Bryan Pearces Stainless Steel Frame, I am planning 
on buying a DeLorean this summer and fitting one of his SS chassis to 
it - for a number of reasons! Firstly I would like to save a rusted 
out DeLorean instead of buying a perfect one, and also I love the 
idea of a completely rust proof car.
I have a few questions for the list, hope someone can help me out!

1. How much should a DeLorean with a bad frame cost? There is one on 
Ebay at the moment for $8500, seems too much to me for this car, 
especially as it also has electrical problems, and it is one of the 
first 500 # series, so it might have no updates...

2. A DeLorean with a rusty frame probably was never cared for 
properly, so there might be a lot more wrong with the car. Suppose it 
sat for a *long* time, could someone who brought a similar car back 
to life tell me how much this might cost? For example what would the 
total approx. cost incl. labor be to getting all the updates, 
electrical and otherwise, SS brake lines etc., done? Also, any other 
work usually involved in bringing a neglected DeLorean back to good 
condition like replacing items such as fuel lines, fuel pump, 
radiator, water pump, hoses, struts, brake pads and stuff like that.

Basically I want it to be a completely reliable daily driver. I'm not 
looking for a basket case DeLorean, just one that has rust on the 
chassis, I would prefer to find one that is a reliable daily driver 
with all the updates already performed, just a bit rusty! What are 
the chances of finding such a car? 

3. How many hours might it take a DeLorean Service centre to change 
the chassis, including swopping over parts from the old chassis?

4. Does anyone on this list have a SS chassis fitted to their car?

Thanks very much for your time!
Best wishes,
John Dore, Ireland.
PS I'll be buying the car in the US, getting all the work done there, 
and it'll be staying there (I'll be moving out to the US soon) - I'm 
not taking it back to Ireland ;)




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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 09:08:57 -0500
From: Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>
Subject: Re: Errata...

Developing??  Hmm..  When a few of us were there for a charity event in the
Fall, the care taker told us it will be a country club.  We even picked up a few
of their golf balls with the "Lamington Farms" logo stamped on it.  

I dont think there are any plans to build homes on the property..  Frankly, I
doubt the township would grant building permits.  They want to keep this area
"Exclusive".


Brian Henderlong wrote:
> 
> If you go to this website:
> http://www.iteachnet.com/~seth/cooney/chlk_brd.htm
> 
> ...and search for the word "DeLorean", you'll find a note from a real
> estate developer named Ashley Cooper, dated May 16, 2000, which states that
> Ashley is currently developing John Z. DeLorean's former Bedminster property.
> 
<SNIP>



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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 09:29:33 -0500
From: Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>
Subject: Ram Air? (Was: Water in the...)

Ram Air?  What Ram Air???


Robert Rooney wrote:
<SNIP>
> 
> p.s. If the intake chamber for the blower motor is clogged, chances
> are so is the ram air intake for the engine. It wouldn't hurt to
> check
> it as well.



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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:05:34 -0500
From: "Drinkware" <marvin_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>
Subject: Varney / 140 mph

Yes, he could have gone that fast. 

On a clear day last summer, I drove my 1981 single Bae Turbocharged Delorean over 220 kph without a nitro boost. My car has a 240 kph speedometer and 30,000  +- miles. My illegal radar unit (in Ontario, Canada) was on, both hands on the wheel, and there was almost a puddle between my knees on my new DMC carpets, (purchased at the Cleveland show), when I glanced for a milli-second at the speedo. It could have gone faster but I did not want to run out of straight road, nor get a ticket. 225.26 kph equates to + - 140 mph..................nice ride...............great car!
Marvin Stein
#4239
Email: marvin_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com
Phone: (519) 434-1666  Fax: (519) 434-7071


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 22
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 01:08:58 -0800
From: "Todd Connors" <TCConnors_at_dml_id.cncdsl.com>
Subject: suspension, handling and other points of contention.

I have been surprised by the ferocity of disagreement regarding the handling characteristics of the Delorean, particularly as it compares to the Audi TT.  I hope these words will help cool the debate.

I have found that due the DMC-12's 20-something age, no two Deloreans are in exactly the same condition.  Different DMC-12 owners possess wildly disparate cars depending on their climate, use, maintenance, and good fortune.  My Delorean drives better now than during my five previous years of ownership thanks to a rebuilt distributor, new brakes, and the replacement of a bent wheel hub (which I had no idea was bent until I replaced the brake rotors).   Due to his relationship with DMC Houston, I assume that James has access to near pristine cars.  I know this has been my experience with other Delorean shops.  His staunch support of its abilities does not surprise me in the least; certainly he the most positive frame of reference.  I suspect much of the disagreement stems from different perspectives resulting from experience with different DMC-12s.

In regard to the Audi, I recently saw a few TTs at the Los Angeles Auto Show.  It is an attractive car, particularly in regard to its brushed aluminum trimmed interior.  However, the TT coupe, which is less wide than the Delorean, feels cramped to me.   In regard to handling, the car fared poorly against its contemporaries in a August 2000 Car and Driver comparison.  It is heavy (3438 pounds) and unbalanced (58.7/41.3, which is not as bad as the DMC-12).  The article notes that "the TT shares the basic bones of the front-drive Volkswagen Golf, a heritage that shows up in the roadster's weight distribution".  Although it is a design masterpiece, the TT was not intended to push the performance envelope.  It is perhaps the perfect car for comparison to the DMC-12.

Do I think the Delorean could outperform the Audi?  Definitely, but not because of the engineering (or re-engineering) put into either.  At our skill level (and let's face it, we are all amateurs), I believe that driver ability, rather than skid pad numbers or slalom times, proves the ultimate deciding factor between two similar cars.  The TT, like the Delorean, has different handling characteristics than the average car.  The Car and Driver staff called the TT "ungainly".  The staff of Motor Trend required some tips from Audi (namely, accelerate hard through corners) before posting impressive slalom times.  Most TT drivers probably have not had their car long enough to master it.  I'm sure James could give most of them a run for their money.

I myself have dusted several newer cars with my Delorean, including an 80s-era 911 on Mulholland and a 90s-era 300Z on Sunset Boulevard.  With its superior horsepower, the Z nearly caught up every straightaway, only to hit the turns too hard and fall behind again.  This brings up a final point: suspension is only one contributor to overall handling.  A car's acceleration and braking characteristics play an equally large role in keeping it pinned to a line.  If the TT ultimately handles better than the Delorean, it is probably due primarily to its horsepower advantage (listed at 225 for the turbo).  

Regardless of my car's age and outdated engineering, I left the car show elated.  I would certainly not trade my car for a TT, even though the convertible Audi costs twice as much as a used Delorean.  First, I would like to upgrade my engine to see if my 18 year old can play with the new TT.  However, until then, if any of the Delorean shops are thinking about developing brushed stainless or aluminum interior trim (control knobs, dash bezel, etc.) for the DMC-12, please count me among your potential customers.

Regards,
Todd Connors


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 23
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 05:36:49 -0500
From: Stephen Jarvis <jarvist_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: loose steering column

>Sounds like the steering column bushing in the firewall has given up 
>the ghost.

How difficult is the replacement of this part?  Any tips on the installation?

Steve Jarvis
#3542





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Message: 24
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 08:26:19 EST
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Towing v. Driving

In a message dated 1/14/01 6:28:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
smeghead79_at_dml_home.com writes:

<< Hmm.  Now I am pondering transport for the vehicle.  I'd hate to do that 
if the car runs, though ... >>

When I was looking into buying a D several states over, it was suggested to 
me by DML list members that I'd be better off trailering it here.  I was 
reluctant to do that due to cost, since the car was declared driveable by the 
owner.  As it turns out, I bought a car about an hour from here and the 
former owner drove it over to deliver it.  What a kick to look out the window 
at work and see my new DeLorean parked across the street!  Wow!

Anyway, I've since heard some horror stories about new owners who got on the 
road only to have a key part conk out.  One guy bought an automatic with a 
failing governor and by the time he got home, it needed a new tranny.  :(   
Might have been running ok when he statrted, but a long trip can cause 
problems to surface, especially if the evidence is ignored by an excited new 
driver who just wants to get home, and figures he'll look into that odd noise 
later.  Fuel tank neglect, a common condition,  can lead to clogged 
injectors, which in itself could cost as much as a trailer rental.  Bottom 
line:  you're buying an 18 or 19 year old car that's very unfamiliar to you.  
Trailer it home where you can have it checked mechanically by a competent 
mechanic, and get used to how it drives in smaller doses. You can't go wrong 
that way.

-Wayne
vin 11174
Still living the dream!



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Message: 25
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:26:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Mark Fearer <mfearer_at_dml_mail.fearernet.com>
Subject: Re: Stainless Steel Frame

> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_f...> wrote:
> > John Delorean Originally was going to have a stainless steel 
> frame.  Exactly
> > why the car  was not built without a stainless frame is not 
> documented to
> > my knowledge.
> 

 Cost prohibitive for mass production. It would have pushed the price tag
well above $25,000.00.

--
Mark Fearer
Manchester, New Hampshire
vin 3072




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