From: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 370
Date: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:42 PM

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There are 17 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. "Spots" in coolant
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>

2. Collector Plates
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>

3. New Jersey "Classic" registration (WAS: Emissions test...)
From: Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>

4. Preventing Water In the Fuel Tank
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

5. Re: Delorean on NOS
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

6. Re: ATTN: owners who have replaced their entire stereo
From: "Dan RC30" <Danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>

7. Re: loose steering column
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

8. Re: Water In the Fuel Tank?
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

9. Re: Re: Tow Dolly v. Car Carrier
From: CIAsleeper22_at_dml_aol.com

10. Re: Stainless Steel Frame
From: rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com

11. Re: Delorean on NOS
From: William T Wilson <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>

12. DMC Nickname!?
From: "ian" <ian_at_dml_netvigator.com>

13. Re: Replacing the Stereo-system (quite long)
From: Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>

14. Re: DMC Nickname!?
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com

15. Re: Re: Tow Dolly v. Car Carrier
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com

16. Re: silly question...
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

17. Re: Delorean on NOS
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:28:34
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: "Spots" in coolant


Hmm - I noticed that the coolant has "spots" in it - floating on the top of 
the coolant. Reminds me of oil on water, but there's not much of these 
"spots" in the coolant. What could that be? Oil? Then how in the %?#)% did 
it get in there, and if its oil (which I doubt) why isn't there more of it 
in the coolant?

The engine performs excellent. No problems.
Please advise.

Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 06759
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:25:20 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Collector Plates

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, jeremysmail_at_dml_s... wrote:
> Wait whats the advantages of this. I must know more.
> 
> Jeremy


In many states, registering you car with collector plates can qualify 
you for a lot of benifits.  Here in Minnesota, when we still had 
emmission testing (thank you Jesse Ventura), collector vehicles were 
immune to it.  Also in MN, there is no sales tax involved when 
purchasing a collector vehicle (I wish I knew that one 5 months 
ago!).  And another good benifit, here in MN, cars with collector 
plates are not required to have a front plate!  However, there are 
some drawbacks.  I believe there used to be a law here in MN that 
only allowed you to drive your car on weekends.  That is no longer 
the case here if it was, but you MUST have another "primary" vehicle 
registered with regular plates if you are to get collector ones.  I'm 
sure each state has it's own rules which apply to the cars, and the 
DeLorean may not even yet be registerable for some.  Try searching 
for your state's Department of Public Saftey's website, they had all 
of the required info for my state.

Jim Reeve
-6960
Soon with the MN Collector Plate - "DMC6960"




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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:17:16 -0500
From: Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>
Subject: New Jersey "Classic" registration (WAS: Emissions test...)

That all depends on how you use the car...

In New Jersey, there are a few classifications now.

Because our cars are not 25 years old, the classification of interest would be
the collector registration.

The advantage of the registration is that you do no need to go through the
inspection process..  But, that is the ONLY advantage.

You still need to physically take the car to the inspection line to have the
odometer checked, and get your sticker.  The ADDITIONAL cost to register is $25,
and you are limited to 2000 miles a year.  The worst part is, there is NO
reduction in insurance (as you would get with a antique or historic
registration).


As far as Collector VS Historic, the DMV does not restrict how you can use the
car..  With Historic, you can only use the car for shows and parades (Basically,
you can never leave the car in a parking log without you there with it), with
Collector you can drive it to the mall or work as long as it is less than 2K
miles a year.


I jumped on the bandwagon, and go the collector classification (it is not a
special plate, like Historic is) in order to avoid the Dyno-style inspection.  I
later found out that cars older than 1984 did not go on the Dyno.  If I had to
do it again, I would not bother unless the insurance companies decide to give me
a discount.


jeremysmail_at_dml_softhome.net wrote:
> 
> Wait whats the advantages of this. I must know more.
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> I have to look into collecter plates.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
>



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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:20:06 EST
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Preventing Water In the Fuel Tank

In a message dated 1/15/01 7:59:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jamesrg_at_dml_btinternet.com writes:

<< the fuel had water in it,  >>

There's a plastic grille along the front edge of your windsheild that has a 
rain drain dead center.  With the fuel tank inspection plate removed you 
won't see it, but if you feel along inside the top edge of the inspection 
opening, you'll realize that the spout of the drain is right over top of the 
2 fuel hoses. Nearly over top of the fuel pump as well.  Water has likely 
trickled down on top of the fuel pump cover and worked its way down into the 
tank.  Some areas to check:
1. See the diagram in the parts manual.  You do have all those parts don't 
you?  My D had the fuel pump cover loosely in place, not really covering the 
pump, and not held in place by the big hose clamp.  You might need a new one 
if the old one is too stiff to fit on properly.  Mine was.
2. Be sure the two hose openings are sticking up like little volcanos, not 
shoved down with their openings lower than the outer edge of the cover.  That 
way any water can roll off the cover like a pitched roof, not collect there 
and possibly leak down hose openings that are below water level. 
3. It's not a bad idea to put a hose clamp around each hose opening.  They're 
not called for in the original but they don't hurt, either. 
4. That should do it... if it doesn't, or you just want to be sure, there are 
plans in a back issue of DeLorean World magazine showing how to construct a 
water deflector.  Kind of vaguely like a shovel with no handle that glues in 
vertically against the firewall.  Or here's an untested suggestion: I've 
decided to put some wire loom-  that corrugated hose people use to cover 
their engine compartment wires- over my tubes to shunt off any trickles.  
Should work, I just haven't gotten around to it.

While you're sitting in your luggage compartment, pull out the fuel pump 
support boot and examine it for cracking and deterioration, which could also 
allow water from on top to seep in.  And see if the metal tube and support 
ring are rusted.  Could be.  The boot can look great on top where it never 
touches gasoline, and be as rotten as a low budget mummy on the lower end.   
Deteriorated parts are readily available thru D shops, and well worth 
replacing.

Good luck!

Wayne
vin 11174
The New DeLorean Manuals Project



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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:10:32 -0000
From: "Steve Rubano" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Re: Delorean on NOS

IMHO....DON'T DO IT. That is unless you like to rebuild engines :). 
The NOS will shorten the life of your engine 
considerably...especially since it is an aluminum engine.

Steve

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, "Don Ekhoff" <ekhoff_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> I purchased a D that had been modified with NOS.  It had two 
bottles the



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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:22:02 -1000
From: "Dan RC30" <Danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: ATTN: owners who have replaced their entire stereo

I replaced my stereo with a Minidisc head unit. I also installed a 10 disc 
CD Changer, which I installed in the passenger side of the dash. I also 
built my own custom speakerbox and put it on the parcel shelf. It has two 8" 
Rockford Fosgate mids, two tweeters, and a 10" subwoofer. I have a JBL200 
Watt amp right now, but I plan to upgrade soon... I'll try to get some pics 
up as soon as I can...

---Dan



Hey guys,

i would like to get in contact via private email with anyone out there who
has  replaced their entire stereo system in their D - 



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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:16:52 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: loose steering column

Stephen,

On a scale of 1 to 10 I would consider replacing the steering column bushing
an 8. You will need the aid of an assistant when re-installing the lower
column.

"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: (TEMPORARY)<www.geocities.com/dmcjoe>

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Jarvis <jarvist_at_dml_mindspring.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 5:36 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] loose steering column


> >Sounds like the steering column bushing in the firewall has given up
> >the ghost.
>
> How difficult is the replacement of this part?  Any tips on the
installation?
>
> Steve Jarvis
> #3542






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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 02:10:33 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Water In the Fuel Tank?

James,

The most common entry point for water in the fuel tank is through a
defective fuel pump support boot and cover.

"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: (TEMPORARY)<www.geocities.com/dmcjoe>

----- Original Message -----
From: JamesRG <jamesrg_at_dml_btinternet.com>
To: DeLorean Mailing List <dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 5:48 PM
Subject: [DML] Water In the Fuel Tank?


> Hi All
>
> My car had been playing up a bit after sitting for about a month without
> use, anyway it eventually just spluttered and had no power. I was looking
> into cleaning the fuel tank as it sounded like fuel starvation, whenever I
> pressed the accelerator the car stalled. I found to my horror that the
fuel
> had water in it, 



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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:39:17 EST
From: CIAsleeper22_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Tow Dolly v. Car Carrier

When I purchased my DeLorean, I had to have it shipped from San Franscisco CA 
to Detroit. I had found it on the DML for sale actually and I purchased it 
sight unseen with pictures and a little help from list member Ken Montgomery. 
I had it shipped over using a classic and exotic car transport carrier. The 
price was reasonable, around 500 dollars or so, and the car only took a few 
days to get to my house. Id much rather spend the 500 to have it shipped than 
spend a ton of money on gas to drive out there, drive back, and lose nearly a 
week in driving. But theres also a lot of distance between CA and MI.

I have also had experience with full car trailors. I have rented them going 
to Ken's show in June, when I moved to TX, and also to have it worked on when 
I didnt have working brakes and couldnt drive it alone.

The full car trailor was easy to use. I just drove the D up on the platform, 
strapped it on (takes about 3 or 4 mins to do) and drove. The guy at U-Haul 
helped me out with attatching the trailor to my hitch on my Expedition even 
though I could have done it alone. I think in all it was about $50.00 for the 
day.

In the end if you are considering trailoring your D, Id reccomend going with 
the full car trailor. Its only a little bit more to rent and if you truly 
love your DeLorean and want to take care of it, its really the best way to go.

Just my 2 cents.

Justin
5172
Houston TX



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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:08:35 EST
From: rbrogren_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Stainless Steel Frame

John Dore, Ireland, wrote:
>>>>
On the subject of Bryan Pearces Stainless Steel Frame, I am planning 
on buying a DeLorean this summer and fitting one of his SS chassis to 
it - for a number of reasons! Firstly I would like to save a rusted 
out DeLorean instead of buying a perfect one, and also I love the 
idea of a completely rust proof car.
I have a few questions for the list, hope someone can help me out!
>>>>

We had a D with a rusted frame for sale last summer by a local Chevy dealer   
for $17,500. I was interested because body and interior was in excellent 
condition and it had dual turbos. I never saw the car but did talk to a 
salesman who filled me in about how much they had to do to the car to make it 
run. (He also mentioned that one of the gears was tough to engage.) One of 
our members had looked it over a couple of times and found the frame quite 
rusty. To make a long story a bit shorter; if they had been willing to sell 
it for $7000 I MIGHT have bought it. (Now I'm happy that I didn't!)
 
I do not know how much a SS frame would cost, but I'm certain that it isn't 
cheap! I believe that DMC Houston have a number of the original frames in 
stock and I think that would be my preference, at least until I was 
absolutely certain that an aftermarket frame had a clean bill of health.

There was a very good article by Mike Roberts in the Delorean World, Volume 
9, Number 1, 1992. This article not only covered the cost and tribulations to 
rebuild and replace the frame, it also pointed out the very real dangers to 
unsuspecting owners that think that they have 'just a little bit of rust' on 
their frame! (I suggest everybody with rust on the frame on their D get a 
copy of the article or the magazine from DOA!)

Next you said: "2. A DeLorean with a rusty frame probably was never cared for 
 properly, so there might be a lot more wrong with the car." 
Not necessarily true!
The author of the article in DW bought his car new in '81 and had to replace 
the frame in '91, with 80,000 miles on it. Based on what this gentleman wrote 
I would say that he would be classified as a careful owner!

If you buy a stored car with a rusty frame I bet you would easily have 
$25,000 to $30,000 in it before you are done, even if you pay only $5,000 for 
it!
Please note that this is only my guess! We have a lot of people on this list 
that know a lot more than I do about the cost of restoring a D! 

Roger




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:55:32 -0500 (EST)
From: William T Wilson <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>
Subject: Re: Delorean on NOS

On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Don Ekhoff wrote:

> Also both turbos were frozen (over rev?).  Anyway to my surprise the
> engine itself was fine with the pistons still looking like pistons and

You would have to dismantle the turbos to be sure; overrevving is
possible, so is inadequate lubrication and/or cooling.  If the turbos were
overrevved you are lucky the engine was not damaged in the process.

Since the DeLorean doesn't have turbos stock, I would be concerned about
the installation of the turbo setup.  Maybe they screwed it up somehow.

When installed properly, NOS is not harmful to the engine.  The trouble is
that it is so easy to install it improperly, by not adding sufficient
fuel, that it has a bad reputation.  IMO this bad reputation is entirely
due to user error and not to any fundamental problem with NOS.




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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 00:44:14 +0800
From: "ian" <ian_at_dml_netvigator.com>
Subject: DMC Nickname!?

Hi DMLers,

We hear a lot of jokes refering to BTTF, 'drugs', kitchen sink, etc but tonight I heard a strange, original one!!!

I was having a beer with a consultant I'm working with in Hong Kong. When I mentioned I owned DeLoreans he said "Ah, the arm-pit cars!" and raised his arms like a gorilla mimicing the doors!

Had it not been for the fact that the client was in the same Bar, the consultant would have been bent double soothing his 'family-jewels!'

Cheers,              IAN
****************************


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 21:48:06 +0100
From: Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>
Subject: Re: Replacing the Stereo-system (quite long)

Andy wrote:

> i would like to get in contact via private email with anyone out there who 
> has  replaced their entire stereo system in their D - at least all four 
> speakers and head unit.  i specifically need confirmed mounting depths,
> rear  speaker size, and what can be done to make it sound GREAT.  

I did my system 3 weeks ago, between X-mas and New Year.
It took me 3 days, but I DID take my time, so I would'nt screw it up.
I now have a Kenwood KRC 259R Radio-Tape Headunit (4x35Watt) installed, 
with a 6-disc CD-changer (Kenwood KDC-C461) mounted onto the rear wall 
under the window, horizontally just above the parcelshelf. 
This gave me enough space to put my Fire-extinguisher above the changer 
and leaving the luggage-net in place.

I mounted the Kenwood by removing the original bracket and cutting its'
slot to DIN-size. I also used the opportunity to put in a handsfree system
for my Cellular phone. I mounted the phone holder with a braket behind the 
radio, so I wouldn't have to cut anything more.

In front I replaced the original Craig Speakers with fitting 2way Pioneers,
but I also had the problem with the short studs. I thought I'd solved it
with some spacers and other nuts, untill I saw a slight bulge in the dash 
yesterday, so I'm going to have to solve it again. 
(Like allways there's 2 ways to do something: "The right way" and "Again")

Since the rear speakers have such an akward size (4x10") I decided to leave 
them where the were too. Especially since I read a post by DMC Joe in a 
BackIssue about baffling and some other audio "Do"s and "Don't"s.
He also suggested putting speakers ON the rear wall; I put mine IN the
rear wall. There's about 2 incehs of room between the wooden rear wall
end the GRP firewall, plenty of room for my speakers. ( I even found out
where they'd put in the alarm-unit. Yes it's behind there too!)
I put in 2 Kenwood 5" 2-way speakers. On one side there allready was a
round hole in the foam on the back of the wooden panel, 
on the other side I cut it myself. The speakers are put in behind the seats 
slightly towards the middle of the car.

With the speakers IN the wall instead of in front of them, I still have 
about 2/3 of the parcel shelf for putting away stuff. As long as I don't 
pile anything up to high this has very little efect on the sound quality.
(Mind you, I'm not a real audio-nut, I just want some decent sound)

I use the original right rear speaker for my handsfree now, works perfectly.
The mic is mounted on the driver side A-post, with the wiring underneath
the door seal. In the passenger side knee pad I had just enough space to
put the blackbox for the car-kit.


> i would also like to know if there's anyone out there who has installed 6x9 
> boxes on the parcel shelf or 8"/10" subs back there.  any comments on the 
> sound, amount of room it took up, is it worth it?

This is a pure coincidence, but I visited Jack and Virginia Stiefels'
website yesterday and noticed that Jack has a custom box on the parcelshelf
you can see it on <http://www.geocities.com/stiefel.geo/new/page2.html>
He has 2 6x9"'s AND 2 10" in there...

I wouldn't know how it sounds, I think it fits in quite nicely,
but to my opinion you loose too much space inside...

That's the reason I did my set up like I have it now...
I'll be posting pics as soon as I get them back from the photolab.

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

check out the Delorean-Files at:
http://www.deloreanfiles.nl/
------------------------------

PS. the Kenwood System is 2 years old; I took it out of my other car, 
as I put a new system in that one (yes, a Kenwood again  ;-)



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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:32:23 EST
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: DMC Nickname!?

Just goes to show you that one mans arm pits is another mans treasure.
Bruce Battles
Vin # 06569


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:30:39 EST
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Tow Dolly v. Car Carrier

Seems everyone has posted about this subject. I can add this having used 
Uhaul trailer, yes it does work but is a tight fit. I have a 16' car trailer 
I bought just for my D. One note, if you use a trailer .... Make sure you 
have the car centered, both front and back and to a small part side to side. 
Be aware that the best way to strap it down is to cross the straps. (ie.. 
make an x with them in the front and rear). Rear is easy to do. Takes long 
straps to do this with the front. This will prevent the car from shifting 
from side to side. Also make sure to put the car in 3rd gear and put on the 
emergency brake. Drove from middle TN to Mobile,AL with the car note quite 
centered from front to rear. Had a lot of time with trailer shimmy at 65+ 
mph.(  seemed like dancing with a fat women, not a lot of fun) Thanks to 
Scott M. who helped me load it in AL. After finding the sweet spot on  my 
trailer marked it for the future. I can now drive my car onto the trailer 
,strap it down and be on the road in under 10 min. Good luck.
Bruce Battles
Vin# 06569


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 22:38:06 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: silly question...

In Dream Maker (IIRC) there's an account of a time when DeLorean basically appropriated some 16 cars when the company was in trouble. He definitely took several for himself and they ended up on his ranch back in the US. One of these cars is now owned by Dave Howarth of DOC UK and is one of the finest examples of a DeLorean anywhere in the world. Again
IIRC it has fewer than 200 miles on the clock, and has never been registered in either the US or UK. It has a non-stock exhaust and sounds fantastic. There's a recording of it on the website, as well as pictures.

I don't know if he still has a DMC12 but I don't think so.

Martin
www.delorean.co.uk

Louie Golden wrote:

> hey list,
>   i just read the new thread about mr. delorean's former estate being turned in to a country club and it made me wonder: does mr. delorean own one of the cars bearing his namesake? i am sure if he did own one, that he lost it during his bankruptcy. i have wondered this for a long time. well, thanks for putting up with my silly question....Louie-NC
>




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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:05:38 -0800
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Delorean on NOS

Turbos don't over rev, they're limited to the flow of exhaust going through
them. They can produce over boost if the waste gates are mis-adjusted but
that wouldn't harm the turbos. It would cause engine problems. The turbos
are most likely frozen with stuck center bearings because the oil has turned
to coke and plugged the oil passages. Most likely they can be rebuilt.

Bruce Benson


> You would have to dismantle the turbos to be sure; overrevving is
> possible, so is inadequate lubrication and/or cooling.  If the turbos were
> overrevved you are lucky the engine was not damaged in the process.
>
> Since the DeLorean doesn't have turbos stock, I would be concerned about
> the installation of the turbo setup.  Maybe they screwed it up somehow.





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