From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 384
Date: Friday, January 26, 2001 11:03 PM

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To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com

There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. ADMIN: They changed it!
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

2. Re: Re: Engine Problems
From: dmcdelorean2_at_dml_aol.com

3. Re: Engine Problems
From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com

4. acceleration problem
From: Delorean17_at_dml_aol.com

5. Re: Re: DMC engine upgrades
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>

6. Delorean Bullet Hole Stickers
From: jeremysmail_at_dml_softhome.net

7. Re: wierd
From: "Danrc30 " <Danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>

8. (unknown)
From: jeremysmail_at_dml_softhome.net

9. Re: Re: wierd
From: "ian" <ian_at_dml_netvigator.com>

10. Re: Re: DMC engine upgrades
From: fjk143_at_dml_aol.com

11. Re: Re: DMC engine upgrades
From: "dmczr1" <dmczr1_at_dml_qwest.net>

12. Re: [Re: DMC engine upgrades]
From: james sawyer <mrvideosawyer_at_dml_netscape.net>

13. Re: Engine Problems
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

14. "Shop Talk" Discussion Board Added to Project Delorean Site
From: jus4sho_at_dml_aol.com

15. RE: Is EVERYTHING copyrighted?
From: myhrek_at_dml_aol.com

16. Re: Tarnished Dash
From: "John Hervey" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>

17. Automotive Terms.
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com

18. Re: DMC engine upgrades
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com

19. James Espy: Schills
From: pjgrady_at_dml_attglobal.net

20. Re: Engine Problems
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com

21. Re: Battery Straps.
From: ben_at_dml_benmaxwell.com





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:48:04 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: ADMIN: They changed it!

If you've tried to access the eGroups web page for DMCNEWS, you've 
probably noticed that it's gone. You now get in through:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

You may have to build a new Yahoo account, if you already have a 
Yahoo mail ID you can use this. You'll have to associate it with your 
old eGroups ID, which happens to be your email address. 

Good luck. So far it all seems to be there and working. 

Dave




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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 00:19:27 EST
From: dmcdelorean2_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Engine Problems

I had a similar problem recently. All it was is that the Fuel injectors were 
all clogged up. So I got new ones, put them in and it ran new.

Chris
11388


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:18:30 EST
From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Engine Problems

In a message dated 1/25/01 10:58:36 AM Central Standard Time, 
scott.a.mueller_at_dml_worldnet.att.net writes:

<< When you opened the fuel distributor, did you remove the piston?  If you
 did, you may have put the piston back in upside down. >>

  I've re-built about a half dozen of the Delorean fuel distributors over the 
past few years and altho it is possible to install the piston upside down (it 
will fit) the car wouldn't run at all because the slot which aligns with the 
ports and allows the fuel to pass thru would be completely out of place and 
not allow any fuel flow thru the distributor. If the car will start and idle, 
it's not an upside down piston.

    Marty



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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:17:55 EST
From: Delorean17_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: acceleration problem

Hello,
    My car is having a hard time accelerating.  it just gives small back 
fires when you give it gas.(not even driveable)  I crawled under the car and 
found that the wire coming from the Oxygen sensor was cut.  I just replaced 
the oxygen sensor with a new one today(From Grady) but I still have the 
problem.  If I close the full throttle microswitch the car drives great but I 
know that isnt the best for it(I drove down driveway).  My frequency valve is 
working but just not coming on by itself.  what could be the problem?  
perhaps the lambda ECU?  since the Frequency valve does work with the full 
throttle microswitch depressed, the lambda RELAY is working, correct?  or am 
I thinking wrong.
    I know my idle-speed motor is stuck open(1000 RPMs).  I will replace that 
soon but I know that doesnt have anything to do with my acceleration problem.
    In the back of the engine compartment there is a black wire with an 0 
connector on it.  When I ground this wire the RPMS go right up near 2000 
rpms.  I thought this was supposed to be grounded at all times, is it?.   any 
ideas?  I will be back on Sunday to check my mail.  If it turns out to be the 
ECU, I have a perfect ignition ECU I will trade for it.

Thank You
David
#2496-coming back from sitting



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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:37:13 -0600
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs_at_dml_flash.net>
Subject: Re: Re: DMC engine upgrades

Steve,

Clearly headers and a low restriction exhaust would improve the D.
However, I can tell you that headers with short mufflers are quite load
and detract from some of the pleasure driving the car long distances.
This is what I have on my V-8 car.

My son wanted to get more rumble and performance out of his 75 olds
350.  My muffler shop friend recommended eliminating the muffler and
just run a 21/2" pipe back from the catalytic converter.  The car has
the old pancake converter with the little balls it in that were not very
restrictive.

We did this and it turned out really nice.  The car definitely has more
torque and the sound level is very acceptable. IF you have ever driven a
car without mufflers  (e.g. straight headers) you know that during
acceleration they are very noisy but during constant speed the noise
goes way down.

SO the car make some noise while accelerating but is very quite during
regular driving.

The point to this is what if this was done with a delorean.  Just by
pass the muffler (keep the converter) with a straight single pipe
exhaust.  This would not be too hard to do.

The only car I know that has done something like this is Marty.  He has
a single exhaust from his turbo, but it has a muffler.   His car  sounds
really nice.  Perhaps this means the D engine like a single exhaust.

Anyway some one out there needs to try this.  You would just need  a
custom pipe to bring the exhaust out past the rear fascia on one side.
This would really cut down on engine heat also.

Headers with long runners (36 -38") are good for producing more low to
mid range torque.  However, this length is impossible to achieve on a
D.  Therefore,   headers will only be useful in getting more top end
power out of the engine - more savaging at high rpm  I am not sure that
is what is desired overall.  The single pipe or a fancy Y pipe dual
exhaust would be better.

If someone wants to buy my muffler, I will have the custom pipes made up
and tested on my stock delorean.

Bob Brandys
97  Delorean V-8, 4 speed automatic, real full size windows






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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:58:04 -0000
From: jeremysmail_at_dml_softhome.net
Subject: Delorean Bullet Hole Stickers

Look at his other auctions. He typically has 50+ fro sale all with a 
different car name in the title.

Jeremy





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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:59:55 -0000
From: "Danrc30 " <Danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: wierd

That is one of the funniest things I've seen on an auction... Glad to 
see he has a good sense of humor! Too bad he can't spell as well... 
It's Lybians with a "y", not Libians with an "i"... lol! Nice try 
though... :-)

Go check it out... here's the link... It's funny 
http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/48562466

---Dan





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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:03:39 -0000
From: jeremysmail_at_dml_softhome.net
Subject: (unknown)

The one left over question I have is what does it increase the 0-60 
time down to over the old factory spec's?

Jeremy

   


From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: RE: DMC engine upgrades (and AZ event)

Idle and engine temperature are relatively unchanged. Fuel economy 
has not been carefully observed in our testing of either the 
automatic or the manual transmission test cars, though it doesn't 
appear to be markedly different.




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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:31:06 +0800
From: "ian" <ian_at_dml_netvigator.com>
Subject: Re: Re: wierd

(Moderators Note - I agree with Ian - this thread is finished )


Yip,

The seller seems to have a sense of humour and is having fun ... he
obviously watches BTTF too often! Fair play to him.

Get the bullet holes or ignore/delete the Ad but lets finish this topic on
DML! My finger is getting tired hitting 'Delete' when I see "Just weird" in
the subject bar!!!

Cheers,            IAN
****************




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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:11:33 EST
From: fjk143_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: DMC engine upgrades

I live in Connecticut and am the original owner of 1981 6894 with 9,000 miles.  It is now in Houston, shipped via Steve Wynne's preferred shipper, having Stage 1 and probably Stage 2 mods performed.  The actual mods have been designed by a UK firm that also does F1 work so I am certain that the headers are mandrel bent, polished, etc. as per good hot rodding technique as described by Jim.  Steve was in the UK a few weeks ago looking at a preliminary Stage 2.  I don't believe it is entirely developed nor has a price been set.  

As far as giving his proprietary information to his competitors I think he'd be a fool to do so and I'm certain he won't.  He has spent alot of green getting Stage 1 first-time engineering and I'm sure alot of his recovery is in labor to perform the mods.  To give it away to competitor is against Business 101.

Bottom line is:  If you want to go fast, you have to pay, period.  That has been the rule since day one.

Oh yeah, when I get my car back eventually Steve provides it with a 6 month, 6,000 mile warranty and actually prefers me to fly to Houston, stay a week, drive the car, hang around, and have minor corrections made per my liking as we are also lowering and balancing the car.  I'd say that is a man confident in his product and his product's quality and a good, conscientous businessman.  Hence, my car is there and not in LA.  I am still waiting for a return phone call from LA from last July.

Fred
6894



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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:11:18 -0700
From: "dmczr1" <dmczr1_at_dml_qwest.net>
Subject: Re: Re: DMC engine upgrades


There is a shop here in Colorado Springs caller Rimmer Performance that does
supercharger setups.  They subcontract work to several auto manufacturers, I
was given a tour of their facility and it looks competent.  I had visited
the shop for a friend who asked about it since he read of an installation
they do for Subaru 2.5RS.  Alot of the local rice boys take their cars to
have them warmed up.
So we started talking about DeLorean, they knew all about the PRV motor and
then started talking between themselves about the type of fuel injection and
what they'd have to do to make the supercharger work.  I'm not stupid when
it comes to cars but it was over my head.
Anyway, they estimate a 40% increase in power over stock.  So if you took a
stock 130 hp motor you would end up with on the order of what DMC Houston
gets with their stage one for the same price.  The DMC build is probably a
more reliable way to go, but what if you had $10K to spend and added the
supercharger after having the stage one build up.  Based on what I heard
from them, I'm thinking that would end up maybe 250 hp.  That's beyond on my
budget at this time, but I thought I'd throw this out in case somebody else
is interested.

Jack Janney
Colorado Springs, CO
82 #10901





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Message: 12
Date: 26 Jan 01 06:41:46 PST
From: james sawyer <mrvideosawyer_at_dml_netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: DMC engine upgrades]

Steve,
I agree with you on the exhaust system.  I have contacted many dealers,
Delorean and others and they say headers are not out there.  Well they must be
because they (DeLorean Dealers) are putting them on their upgrades.  I guess
we just need to spend big bucks re-inventing the wheel when it really is
sitting in a suppliers stock room somewhere.  I am just a little leary of
taking my car to a muffler shop and say "build me a set of headers".  By the
way the intake system seems to be lacking also.  I'll bet with an exhaust
system and with an intake not so resrictive 20HP could be gained.

Jim
vin 4149
"ELMO"   

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Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail



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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:38:20 -0000
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Engine Problems

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Andrei Cular" <acular1_at_dml_t...> wrote:
Andrei, The car will run w/o the lambda system operating properly. 
The only thing is it will run rich and foul the plugs and contaminate 
the 02 sensor and the enviroment.Some of the European cars don't even 
have a Lambda system and the mixture is adjusted by the screws.
As far as the cold start valve. It's use as a primer for the gas 
system and to be used on start up only. During the summer, I most of 
the time keep my hot start relay plugged in to avoid any problems. 
100 degree + weather outside.
Yes: I have a new accumulator and my system starts up fine. As far as 
a fire hazzard, It's no more of a fire than gas in your tank or any 
thing else when gas is around. If you leave the cold start running 
all the time, then yes you have a gas feed problem but the cold start 
can wash the cylinders but most likley it will gas foul the plugs and 
won't start or quit running. The accumulator that holds the pressure 
on the gas lines could be the culprit at this point. 
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com



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Message: 14
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:48:16 EST
From: jus4sho_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: "Shop Talk" Discussion Board Added to Project Delorean Site

After seeing some of the "interactions" that have taken place on Project 
Vixen's discussion board (The Fox Den), I've added a similar feature that I 
call "Shop Talk" to the Project Delorean Site.  Please feel free to check it 
out, make comments, ask questions, and interact with other visitors.

Steve
    VIN 2650 ("Project Delorean")



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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:10:19 EST
From: myhrek_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: RE: Is EVERYTHING copyrighted?

Tom Niemczewski asked the appropriate question, and the answer is in the 
affirmative.
Kjell Myhre    <MyhreK_at_dml_aol.com>    818 768-1364    Fax: 818 768-1364


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 16
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 03:25:28 -0000
From: "John Hervey" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Tarnished Dash

Declan, 
Try a 1/2 and 1/2 mix of any brand sunblocker 15 + cream and
Meguires leather cleaner. It took the brownish color out of mine. Be 
sure to rub it on generous and let set for a while out of the sun. 
Wipe off with a damp cloth.
John Hervey


  --- In dmcnews_at_dml_egroups.com, Declan Kelly <Declan.Kelly_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> Ever since I have owned my Delorean I have tried to battle this 
problem.
> My dash has a dirty/dark brown/black look to the gray. 



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Message: 17
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:10:59 -0000
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com
Subject: Automotive Terms.

While searching around on the net, I found an interesting site 
dedicated to automotive terms. It's helped me a bit, so I thought I 
might share it with the group here.

http://www.connect.ab.ca/~barachj/car-dic.htm

-Robert
vin 6585




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Message: 18
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:08:31 -0000
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com
Subject: Re: DMC engine upgrades

There's that "competition" word again. There are very few (five major 
ones I believe) Delorean vendors out there and they get most of the 
major parts from Houston. Whether Houston sells to a customer or 
another D vendor they make money....period (as James Espey says). If 
they were to "branch out" and sell/offer the engine upgrades to other 
D vendors I think they would sell alot more. Not allot of people have 
the time to drive their car down to Houston, spend a week down there, 
afford to have their car shipped there, cost of flying down 
there...ect. If the opprotunity was there that they could go to the 
nearest Delorean vendor and have the mods performed...then I think 
more people would do it....in return Houston makes more money. 

Now getting back to the Buissness 101 you mentioned, if Houston on 
the other hand says no, and other vendors get requests to do 
something like this then that vendor would probably have no other 
choice but to go off on their own and design their own upgrades....in 
return Houston dosen't make a dime on it. Now you have competition 
and people are going to hesitate in having anything done until they 
see results of the different mods that are being offered. I know I 
would before I put that much money down. Now Houston isn't going to 
make their money back as fast as they would have hoped to. You never 
know, someone could come up with a better mod for less money and 
allot more powerfull....which one would you go for?  So here's the 
run down...sell/offer the parts to D vendors ONLY to perform the mods 
for people who don't want to make that big trip.etc..ect...and MAKE 
money or don't sell/offer the mods to a D vendor ONLY and have the 
other D vendors come up with their own solution and make NO money 
from that sale. Hmmmmmm....all that green that they invested could be 
made back in no time. BTW, all that money in labor....someone has to 
pay the mechanic Hourly to do it...and I am sure they aren't paying 
him minimum wage either to do it.

Basic engine modifications aren't big "Trade Secret" especially when 
it comes down to just Porting and polishing the heads, replacing the 
cams, reworking the exhaust system and other engine tuning, just 
common knowledge. Any compitent engine builder can come up with that 
to squeeze the extra 70HP from an already air starving/exhaust 
constricted engine. What you are refering to as "trade secrets" in 
engine building is building an engine from the ground up, starting 
from scratch with raw materials with your own formulas and 
calculations not basic modifications.

It's not always true that you have to pay a large sum of money to go 
fast...it has been proven.

Never assume that because a firm does work for F1's that the headers 
are Mandrel bent. 

With all that said, I am not posting in anyway to "bash" Houston or 
put them down in anyway, they are a good company. I am sure the 
engine delivers some really good results for the Delorean. I have not 
driven a Delorean that has had the mods and have only heard by "word 
of mouth" from people who have actually sat in it and drove the car 
themselves. From what I understand (someone please correct me if I 
wrong) someone told me that the mods were worth doing on a Manual 
tranny and are not worth doing on an automatic. I was told that the 
automatic felt like it had the same power as a regular stock engine, 
manual transmission Delorean?  

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., fjk143_at_dml_a... wrote:
<SNIP> The actual mods have been designed by a UK firm that also does 
F1 work so I am certain that the headers are mandrel bent, polished, 
etc. as per good hot rodding technique as described by Jim.  <SNIP>
> 
> As far as giving his proprietary information to his competitors I 
think he'd be a fool to do so and I'm certain he won't.  He has spent 
alot of green getting Stage 1 first-time engineering and I'm sure 
alot of his recovery is in labor to perform the mods.  To give it 
away to competitor is against Business 101.
> 
> Bottom line is:  If you want to go fast, you have to pay, period.  
That has been the rule since day one.
> 
> Oh yeah, when I get my car back eventually Steve provides it with a 
6 month, 6,000 mile warranty and actually prefers me to fly to 
Houston, stay a week, drive the car, hang around, and have minor 
corrections made per my liking as we are also lowering and balancing 
the car.  <SNIP>
> Fred
> 6894




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Message: 19
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:12:44 -0800
From: pjgrady_at_dml_attglobal.net
Subject: James Espy: Schills

"Here I go again" as Ronald Reagan used to say.  For those who don't
already know, Bobzilla is actually a gentleman named Bob Buono.  He
happens to be the genius behind the Zilla series of DeLorean
electronics.  Perhaps you slammed Bob because he has decided to keep us
as his sole distributor.  I wish I could give you and the other
suppliers a better deal but the profit margin is too small and I'd hate
to raise the retail prices just to give the dealers a better margin.  My
friendship with Bob and his lovely wife Linda dates back to the early
80's when he first brought in his DeLorean for service. Just out of
curiosity James what were you doing back then? Undoubtedly it wasn't
anything related to DeLoreans. 

Although Bob supplies me with Zilla's he has nothing to do with our
"hardened" angle drives.  I did not know he was going to post his
thoughts until I read it on the DML.  So how could he be a schill?  He
was just being a nice guy, and DeLorean owner, voicing his opinion.  You
don't even own a DeLorean anymore James so we all know the purpose of
your recommendation of particular products and services.  It's just
business right?. Bobzilla (as my wife Debby nicknamed him) answers to no
one, except Linda of course. Insulting him is like insulting a member of
my family.  I asked him to respond to your slight but he declined, so
I'm doing it for him.  I am responding to this on the DML, because I
feel you owe him a public apology.  What do you think? 

The answer to your statement (SNIP "At last, I'm not the only schill on
the DML" Digest 380, message 18) is no. There still is only one schill
on the DML.  

If you would like to discuss this matter in private, my phone number is:
1-800-350-7429

Sincerely,


Robert Grady
PJ Grady, Inc.



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Message: 20
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:19:13 -0000
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com
Subject: Re: Engine Problems

You will cuase permanent damage to ANY car that has a "gas wash 
cylinder" problem. When to much fuel gets dumped into the cylinder 
before it has a chance to fire it, it's washing away the protective 
layer of oil that is in the cylinder. By doing this you now have the 
piston rings scraping against the cylinder wall and you will cause 
scoring of the cylinder. This will result in the loss of compression 
in that cylinder, burning oil, ect.. The only fix for that is to get 
the cylinder honed or replace the cylinder sleeve itself. I have 
worked on a few engines that had had a faulty fuel injector that kept 
putting fuel into the cylinder. The end result was not pretty at all. 
If only one or two plugs do get gas fouled, the engine is still going 
to run, just very rough and you'll have a bigger problem since now 
there is going to be fuel dumped into those cylinders that aren't 
firing to burn it off.

Steve
 
<SNIP>
 then yes you have a gas feed problem but the cold start 
> can wash the cylinders but most likley it will gas foul the plugs 
and 
> won't start or quit running. The accumulator that holds the 
pressure 
> on the gas lines could be the culprit at this point. 
> John Hervey
> www.specialTauto.com




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Message: 21
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:46:06 -0000
From: ben_at_dml_benmaxwell.com
Subject: Re: Battery Straps.

Marc,

Dude, there is no way I'd ever be able to do it again either... it's 
like one of those special sailing knots!!!

-ben




--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> I always thought I had mine set up right, but when a bunch of us 
went to RI in
> the fall this year, Ben asked me about this because his strap was 
not on.
> 
> I went over to help him get it right, or so I thought.



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