From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 403
Date: Friday, February 09, 2001 5:47 AM

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There are 24 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. The Delorean's bad habits.
From: rpeckhoff_at_dml_yahoo.com

2. Installed A/C Lines and Heater feed and return lines
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com

3. AC and fanzilla question
From: "Kevin Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

4. Re: Auto trans governor NO-NO-NOs
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>

5. door locks/zillas/solenoids
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

6. Re: Auto trans governor problems
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>

7. RE: The DeLoreans bad habits.
From: "IN2TIME" <Gary_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>

8. Re: door locks/zillas/solenoids
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

9. Remote actuators
From: "Scott Cagle" <sharkywtrs_at_dml_msn.com>

10. Re: AC and fanzilla question
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

11. Re: Re: Cold engine and smoke
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

12. Re: The Delorean's bad habits.
From: "Don Ekhoff" <ekhoff_at_dml_seagullsolutions.net>

13. Re: door locks/zillas/solenoids
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com

14. Re: Auto trans governor NO-NO-NOs
From: "Ralf Philipp" <doc.brown_at_dml_web.de>

15. gas build up when sitting
From: Delorean17_at_dml_aol.com

16. Re: Cold engine and smoke
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

17. Re: The Delorean's bad habits.
From: CIAsleeper22_at_dml_aol.com

18. Re: Cold engine and smoke
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com

19. Sunstar 1:18 Delorean model.
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com

20. RE: The DeLorean's bad habits. (cold weather use)
From: "Michael C. Babb, MCSE, MCT, MCP-I, CNA, CCNA" <michael_at_dml_babbtechnology.com>

21. Re: Auto trans governor schematics
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>

22. Re: gas build up when sitting
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

23. Re: AC and fanzilla question
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

24. Re: AC and fanzilla question
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 04:26:48 -0000
From: rpeckhoff_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: The Delorean's bad habits.

Hey All,
	I am in the process of getting a D and I have a few questions for all
the long time owners.  I live in San Franciso, It's temperature is
usually about 50 degrees.  I was wondering what starting the Delorean
is like in the mildly cold weather every single day of the year?  Plus
I am planning on doing my daily errands in the D.  Does the D have any
problem with starting and stopping some 15 times a day in cold weather
or warm for that matter?  I also was wondering how much the average
cost annualy it is to maintain the D.  Also has anyone had any
experience in push starting one(just in case)?  How hard is it to push
start? 

Robert Eckhoff
vin #<hee hee i hope> ;-)




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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:43:44 EST
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Installed A/C Lines and Heater feed and return lines

Hey List,

       Just a quick update on what I did today.  As you can see in the 
subject line, I installed the A/C lines and the Heater Feed and Return lines. 
 Tomorrow I plan to install the fuel system stuff onto the engine and to 
install the muffler and adjust the tranny linkage.  Thats all for now. 

Later,
Nick
1852
<A HREF="Http://members.aol.com/njp548">Http://members.aol.com/njp548</A>



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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:02:01 -0600
From: "Kevin Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: AC and fanzilla question

I'm trying to plan ahead for summer and things that I need to replace and
repair on my 81 D.
I live in Houston now (and used to MUCH cooler weather), so I'll be running
the AC quite a lot. :)
So, I've noticed the problem of when the compressor kicks on the engine
drags and drops power. I know there is the FanZilla and the SpecialTauto fix
for this. But bear with me for just a moment.
I can hear relays clicking behind me, in the electrical compartment
presumably, though I haven't checked into it too much.
It kicks on every 5-10 seconds it seems. Is that normal?
Or should I be doing the cooling fan cycling adjustment on the dryer
assembly first, then the fanzilla?
http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/aircondfancycle.html

And, I don't want parts vendor war here, but what are the functional
difference between the Zilla fan product and Herv's? Perhaps those replies
should be made privately to me a dmc4687(at)mindspring.com.

Thanks "Y'all"




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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 00:57:24 -0600
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>
Subject: Re: Auto trans governor NO-NO-NOs

Rats! Two mistakes in as many days. Guess I'm really slipping. Sorry again,
Ralf......I'm not an engineer. Try to be helpful and then go off and mislead
folks into potentially dangerous situations like capacitor explosions.
Reckon I'd better reconsider offering up advice here.

As to the risks of governor repair, I guess I drew my conclusions from a
statistically invalid sample of one--mine. Ran the darn thing for about
three years with my caps in backwards. Too cheap to buy new ones so I just
turned 'em around and kept going another 86,000 miles. Guess one of these
days I ought to replace 'em just to avoid a breakdown somewhere and have to
limp home.

Good idea on the alternate types of caps--I couldn't find any other kind
back then that would fit in that tiny space. Probably can now, what with
everything getting smaller, so if y'all find any non-polarized cap that can
be squeezed into that space, should work just fine and last a long time and
you won't have to worry about installing 'em backwards :-)

Regarding the risk of heat, fire, and explosion...I was never able to get
more than about 15 milliamps out of that AC alternator (speed sensor) that
eventually feeds those caps. Considering that the signal gets fed through
the throttle position sensor and then through a full-wave bridge rectifier
and a series dropping resistor before being applied across the two caps in
question (with a series smoothing resistor between 'em) to smooth out the
last remaining pulses riding on that mostly speed-and-throttle dependant
0-20Volt or so  DC signal, there ain' much left to produce heat. For the
record, that signal then gets applied to the input of both op-amp
comparators which compare it to a fixed Zener- reference voltage before, in
the classic Op-Amp Configured as a Comparator style, and at the appropriate
shift point, the comparator  removes the bias from the base of the
appropriate TIP-42C  pass transistor that then unsaturates, removing drive
current (unfiltered, direct from the 12 v supply, and without antispiking
diodes, can you believe it!!) from the associated shift solenoid, causing
the transmission to shift.

Whew! Sounds a bit Rube Goldbergish, eh?

Today, we'd just use a PIC microprocessor and it's internal A/D converters
to read vehicle speed and throttle position separately, calculate the shift
points, build in a little hysteresis loop in the program to make the upshift
and downshift points a couple three-or-five MPH apart (upshift/downshift
points are supposed to be different and we SURE don't want the classic
closed-loop servo control "chatter" at the shift points), and drive the
solenoids via a couple pass transistors from the PIC's parallel I/O ports.
Much simpler, truly a digital computer, could also have a programmable shift
point / performance curve via the PIC's on-board serial I/O port using your
laptop computer to set them wherever you want, and it would all fit in half
the space of the original board leaving plenty of room for whatever filter
caps and varistors would be needed to give a good, clean, safe  DC supply.
And look entirely stock, to boot. Wouldn't be a bad idea at that-- and you
could modify the shift points when you drop in DMC's high-performance engine
to take advantage of it's added HP and desirable shift point changes. Been
thinking about building such a thing but I just haven't had the time. With
my record of late I probably couldn't get the darn thing to work anyway.

Anyway, I always figured that if those two caps ever shorted out from
natural failures or from installing them backwards it would just take the
speed/throttle position signal to ground through the two aforementioned
resistors. Those resistors would, if my Thevenin nodal current calculations
are correct, limit the maximum possible signal current (i.e., at full 114 or
so MPH vehicle speed in third gear) to about half a milliamp through one cap
and even less through the other. Wouldn't have guessed that a half a
milliamp could cause enough heat to make anything explode, but even if it
would, at sustained100+ MPH we might well deserve it. Shoot, just occurred
to me, I could even measure the short circuit current at that very point by
just placing a milliammeter in series with the throttle kickdown switch and
jam the accelerator pedal to the floor. If you have the car at full throttle
(regardless of speed), that's exactly what the kickdown microswitch is
doing-- it literally shorts out the vehicle speed and throttle position
signal completely at that very junction and causes the transmission to
downshift. In non-Engineering terms, the Governor no longer has a signal to
reference, so it just gives up, so to speak, and the car downshifts.

Guess that means that if either cap ever shorts out on it's own, the car
would limp home stuck in first gear. 'Course with that second resistor
between the two caps, depending on which cap shorted it might just limp back
shifting back and forth between first and second. Wouldn't want to drive it
that way for long, might make the whole transmission explode.

Now in all fairness, if those caps in question had anything to do with
filtering/smoothing the car's 12VDC supply voltage, in the manner that most
electrolytics are used in automobile electronics,  and which a reader of the
years-long Governor Computer thread would very likely assume from all the
discussions about them failing from inductive kickback /counter EMF off of
jump starts and the like (I suspect you assumed this too, Ralf), then I'd
agree completely on the risk of shorts, heat and explosion from improperly
installed capacitors. I rather suspect that the very lack of such supply
filtering on the Governor's DC supply lines may well contribute the
Governors checkered performance reputation, but then on the other hand the
lack of such caps saves it from more consequential damage should they go and
decide to short out on their own, even without the misfortune of being
installed backwards. In my experience these guys tend to fail shorted when
used in DC supply filtering applications-- often entirely on their own
volition, without being provoked by things us humans do like installing the
car battery backwards, jump starting, overcranking, and other electrical
maladies. Those Siemens comparators seem remarkably tolerant of unfiltered
DC supplies. Spec sheets show a wide VCC / VDD range with excellent
differential balance characteristics, guess that's why. It's certainly why
I've never found a drop-in replacement for 'em, but luckily (and
unexpectedly) have never needed to since they don't seem to fail.

Protecting us all from the consequences of component failure is, I reckon,
one of the reasons they put fuses on radios and governor computers.

So, my apologies for omitting details like the governor's small-signal use
of these caps and indirectly causing undue alarm amongst fellow intrepid
Governor experimenters. And Ralf is completely correct that if you ever do
install one backwards you should discard it, not re-use it. Reverse voltage,
even at low currents, will usually damage them.

Farewell.

Mark Hershey
Sr.Director, Engineering
Advanced Product Planning and Development Group
Intecom, Inc.
Addison, TX.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralf Philipp" <doc.brown_at_dml_web.de>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] Auto trans governor problems


> >
> > Possible you installed the caps backwards but the Tantalums would
probably
> > tolerate and work OK anyway, at least for awhile. Wouldn't likely be
> > intermittent. The black rubber seals were the positive end.
>
>
> No, no, no!!!
>
> If you install Tantalums backwards then they will definitely go bad. They
> WILL get hot, and they might even explode.
(snipped right about here, and so was this message :-)




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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 02:16:53 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: door locks/zillas/solenoids

Hello All,

as i read recent posts, it has brought me to ask this question.  my one-key 
system DeLorean may be in need of door lock help - i recently 'revived' my 
original power locks (they had not been connected since before my ownership) 
and they seem to work like they should.  however, sometimes the driver's side 
lock doesn't engage like it should when summoned from the passenger side.  as 
i see in the back issues, this usually signifies a bad lock solenoid.  

my question is this:  i am about to order lockzilla.  i should probably order 
at least one new lock solenoid at the same time, correct?  would it be wise 
to replace the passenger side one at the same time?  i have no problems right 
now with it, but i'm sure it will eventually go out.  also, some of the DMC 
websites talk about a 'core charge' if you buy new solenoids. can someone 
explain what this means to me?  and should i pay the extra money to get the 
original harnesses included when i buy new solenoids?

thanks for the tips!
Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:22:45 -0600
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>
Subject: Re: Auto trans governor problems

Good news, Matthew! I checked with a friend of mine who designs capacitors,
programmable gate arrays, and other stuff for Lucent / Bell Labs and he said
that your caps are probably OK.

How is that possible?

Not sure I caught all the detail, but it seems that applying reverse
voltage, even as low as 20 volts or so, will indeed often cause the
dielectric inside electrolytic and tantalum caps to "flash over" (he had a
more technical term, but I didn't catch it). At that instant, the dielectric
is essentially shorted and in conventional power supply filtering circuits
the full available current from the power supply would flow through the cap,
creating heat that would literally melt the insides and boil the dielectric
(the electrolyte in an electrolytic cap, not sure what the powder dialectric
in a tantalum cap would do) causing rapid expansion and potential explosion.
I can personally vouch for that one, back in high school electronics lab I
blew up an electrolytic cap on a lab project-- it was a big 1 inch or so
diameter and it shot the insides out the end and popped the instructor on
the back of the head. Didn't get an "A" on that one.

Anyway, in small signal circuits such as the one in the Governor there is no
appreciable current available and the cap doesn't heat. Often, but not
always, the point inside the cap where the flashover occurred is not further
damaged. In most cases removing the source voltage is all that's required.
If your car shifted at all after reinstalling the caps properly they aren't
permanently shorted.

He also mentioned that any tantalum cap rated at 50 volts should take a
reverse hit of 20 volts (about all you'd get from the governor unless you
drag raced it) without flashing over at all.Guess that's why mine still work
OK after all these years.

I'd say that if you are in there anyway to resolder eveything, go ahead and
replace 'em.

Oh, and in respect to all those folks who e-mailed me personally about the
dangers of using paste flux and the long term effects of corrosion--don't
use acid flux,  (I thought I already mentioned that one) and clean the flux
off after you resolder everything.

\\ Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew L. Walker" <mwalker_at_dml_dragon-reach.org>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:08 PM
Subject: RE: [DML] Auto trans governor problems


> Well to be safe I will pull the caps and replace them.  It's not that
> expensive.
>
> Ralf - The capsI used are 4.7uF 50v tantalum caps from nte.  Suggestions?
>
> Matthew L. Walker
> VIN 1219





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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 07:20:11 -0800
From: "IN2TIME" <Gary_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>
Subject: RE: The DeLoreans bad habits.

Robert & List

<SNIP>Also has anyone had any experience in push starting one (just in
case)?  How hard is it to push
start?</SNIP>

I've had no problems push-starting manual-transmission D's.  The voltage and
current surges are probably terrible when you push-start any car, but if you
must...
The trick is as follows:
 - Put the key in (to unlock the steering ;^)
 - Car in neutral
 - Push the car up to speed
 - Push the clutch in
 - Put it into first gear (reverse works if you pushed it backwards)
 - NOW turn the key to the on position (not the start position)
 - Immediately let out the clutch and depress the gas pedal slightly

Most people turn the key on first, but by the time they have the car up to
speed, the no-start timer has cut off the fuel pump. You've only got a few
seconds from when you turn on the key to when the engine is running.

Gary Hull
IN2TIME
VIN # 5612
www.PNDC.org
www.IN2TIME.com




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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:27:53 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: door locks/zillas/solenoids

Before you go replacing everything check all of the adjustments in the 
door and make sure the everything is moving freely and lubricated. It 
may turn out that a solenoid is bad but if you put a new one in and 
the door lock is not working right you will just ruin the new one too. 
Once you get the locks working then by all means go ahead and get the 
Lockzilla. It cannot correct for any mechanical deficency but it won't 
lock you in the car like the origional module will, killing the 
battery and frying the solenoids! As I have warned previous posts be 
aware of all of the SHARP edges of the metal inside the doors, cover 
them with tape and use long sleeves. A core charge refers to an extra 
charge incurred until you return the "core" in this case the old 
solenoid. Some venders want the old parts so that they have a 
rebuildable "core".This way when you want a rebuilt part you don't 
have send in your old one and wait for it to be rebuilt. You get the 
rebuilt one quickly and on reciept of the old one you get credit for 
it. This is very common on such items as water pumps, starters, and 
alternaters.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


-- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> as i read recent posts, it has brought me to ask this question.  my 
one-key 
> system DeLorean may be in need of door lock help - i recently 
'revived' my 
> original power locks (they had not been connected since before my 
ownership) 
> and they seem to work like they should.  however, sometimes the 
driver's side 
> lock doesn't engage like it should when summoned from the passenger 
side.  as 
> i see in the back issues, this usually signifies a bad lock 
solenoid.  
> 
> my question is this:  i am about to order lockzilla.  i should 
probably order 
> at least one new lock solenoid at the same time, correct?  would it 
be wise 
> to replace the passenger side one at the same time?  i have no 
problems right 
> now with it, but i'm sure it will eventually go out.  also, some of 
the DMC 
> websites talk about a 'core charge' if you buy new solenoids. can 
someone 
> explain what this means to me?  and should i pay the extra money to 
get the 
> original harnesses included when i buy new solenoids?
> 
> thanks for the tips!
> Andy
> 
> Soma576_at_dml_a...
> 1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
> Fargo, ND 58102
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:41:40 -0500
From: "Scott Cagle" <sharkywtrs_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Remote actuators



A little warning on that note;

I just recently attempted to have actuators installed in my DMC.  The ones he had in stock were in no way powerful enough to pull the door latches.  He then got creative in trying to loosen the tension on the the latch rods which brought up a whole new bag of problems.  The DMC is not like other cars in the sense that they have a remarkable amount of tension on the latch rods, otherwise, the door has a greater chance of unlatching.  And unlike other cars, if that were to happen with a DMC, the door just won't pop a bit open, it will sling itself completely open.  Imagine that at 60 mph.  So my suggestion on the actuators is this:
1.  Wait on Rob Grady's to be finished.  He's told me that they will be done within the next couple of months, and if you have the lockzilla remote system, will be already programmed into the remote.  Otherwise, I'm sure you could write Bob Zilla and see if the actuators can be activated with another type of system.
2.  Buy acutators that have at least 25lbs of pull to them.  That way you're safe on the tension and won't have someone messing around with something they know nothing about.
I myself am waiting around on Rob's.  There's something VERY settling about knowing the product you are putting in your car was designed especially for your car.

Scott Cagle
#16738<br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:17:45 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: AC and fanzilla question

The clicking you hear coming from the electrical compartment is more than
likely the cooling fan relay which is engaging whenever the AC compressor
cycles; this is normal. If the clicking duration is less than 7 seconds you
are low on freon.

There are many choices for improving the cooling fan operation; based on our
17 years of servicing DeLoreans I recommend the following. Make sure that
you have both updated circuit breakers for the cooling fans and AC blower
and install the Fanzilla. The Fanzilla feature of sequential operation of
the cooling fans is the key to over coming the power loss you describe
whenever the AC compressor kicks in. We have installed hundred's of these
units with no failures.



"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: <www.deloreanservices.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Creason <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
To: Dmc /dml <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:02 AM
Subject: [DML] AC and fanzilla question


> I'm trying to plan ahead for summer and things that I need to replace and
> repair on my 81 D.
> I live in Houston now (and used to MUCH cooler weather), so I'll be
running
> the AC quite a lot. :)
> So, I've noticed the problem of when the compressor kicks on the engine
> drags and drops power. I know there is the FanZilla and the SpecialTauto
fix
> for this. But bear with me for just a moment.
> I can hear relays clicking behind me, in the electrical compartment
> presumably, though I haven't checked into it too much.
> It kicks on every 5-10 seconds it seems. Is that normal?
> Or should I be doing the cooling fan cycling adjustment on the dryer
> assembly first, then the fanzilla?
> http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/aircondfancycle.html
>
> And, I don't want parts vendor war here, but what are the functional
> difference between the Zilla fan product and Herv's? Perhaps those replies
> should be made privately to me a dmc4687(at)mindspring.com.
>
> Thanks "Y'all"





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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:32:05 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Cold engine and smoke

If the smoke has a blue tint and smells oily John is correct, on the other
hand if the smoke is pure white it may be caused by un-burnt fuel in the
combustion chamber. This problem is usually a result of a malfunctioning
cold start valve, fuel distributor, or out of tolerance CO adjustment.

"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: <www.deloreanservices.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:55 AM
Subject: [DML] Re: Cold engine and smoke


> Erik, White smoke usually means that the oil is seeping into the
> cylinders normally from around the valve guides so: When you first
> start up you will get white smoke and then it stops after it burns
> off. This will hasten the fouling of the plugs and 02 sensor. A burnt
> looking smoke that is comming out of the tail pipe all the time is
> usually comming from around the rings due to wear.
> Hope this helps, From my old engine days.
> John Hervey
>
>   --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., delorean502_at_dml_e... wrote:
> > Hello,
> > When I start my Delorean after a week or so of not driving it, a
> lot
> > of exhaust smoke comes out.  It's not a bad looking smoke, just a
> lot
> > of exhaust.  Is this normal?  Once the engine warms up or when I
> > start to drive, it is fine.  Also, when it is cold it tends to
> > hesitate a bid in first.  It will never stall or loose total power,
> > just hesitate a bid when I give it some gas.
> > Thanks for the help
> >
> > Erik Geerdink
> > 4512





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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:09:25 -0800
From: "Don Ekhoff" <ekhoff_at_dml_seagullsolutions.net>
Subject: Re: The Delorean's bad habits.

Robert,

You should have no problems with the frequent starts if the car is in proper
condition.

I tried to contact you directly but your account at yahoo did not go thru.
I'm local (sorta) to you and almost recognize your last name. I'm:
Ekhoff_at_dml_seagullsolutions.net

Don Ekhoff

----- Original Message -----
From: <rpeckhoff_at_dml_yahoo.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 8:26 PM
Subject: [DML] The Delorean's bad habits.


> Hey All,
> I am in the process of getting a D and I have a few questions for all
> the long time owners.  I live in San Franciso, It's temperature is
> usually about 50 degrees.  I was wondering what starting the Delorean
> is like in the mildly cold weather every single day of the year?  Plus
> I am planning on doing my daily errands in the D.  Does the D have any
> problem with starting and stopping some 15 times a day in cold weather
> or warm for that matter?  I also was wondering how much the average
> cost annualy it is to maintain the D.  Also has anyone had any
> experience in push starting one(just in case)?  How hard is it to push
> start?
>
> Robert Eckhoff
> vin #<hee hee i hope> ;-)
>
>
>
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>




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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:38:43 -0000
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com
Subject: Re: door locks/zillas/solenoids

I would purchase both lock solenoids if you are going to get the 
LockZilla. There is a "kit" price for all three parts (2 solenoids, 1 
Lockzilla) and will be cheaper then buying it all seperatley. It 
would be easier to install the LocZilla with the OEM harness, but you 
will have to send them your old lock Module with the harness so that 
they can "transplant" the harness to the LockZilla. Of course if your 
harness is melted or in poor condition then I would suggest to just 
cut the connector off the main harness that is in the car and 
purchase the LockZilla as is, It will come with crimp on BUTT 
connectors to crimp to the main lock module harness that is in the 
car.

As for the core charge, what they are doing is rebuilding the lock 
solenoids. They need your old ones to rebuild them and put them back 
into their inventory. What they will do is send you the new (reuilt) 
solenoids and charge you the core charge. When you send back your old 
broken ones they will refund you the FULL core charge. This is the 
same practice as any other autostore when you go and purchase an 
alternator or starter. If you don't wnat the hassle of being charge 
for the core and then getting it refunded, ask the vendor if you can 
send your old ones back first and upon recieving them if they can 
send you the new ones and only charge you for the new solenoids.

So in conclusion: If you want the OEM connector harness on the 
LockZilla and you don't want to be charged for the Core, send all 
three old parts to the vendor and then have them send you the 
LockZilla with the OEM harness installed and the new solenoids.

Steve

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> ><SNIP> 
> my question is this:  i am about to order lockzilla.  i should 
probably order 
> at least one new lock solenoid at the same time, correct?  would it 
be wise 
> to replace the passenger side one at the same time?  i have no 
problems right 
> now with it, but i'm sure it will eventually go out.  also, some of 
the DMC 
> websites talk about a 'core charge' if you buy new solenoids. can 
someone 
> explain what this means to me?  and should i pay the extra money to 
get the 
> original harnesses included when i buy new solenoids?
> 
> thanks for the tips!
> Andy
> 
> Soma576_at_dml_a...
> 1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
> Fargo, ND 58102
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:38:38 +0100
From: "Ralf Philipp" <doc.brown_at_dml_web.de>
Subject: Re: Auto trans governor NO-NO-NOs

.......
> Now in all fairness, if those caps in question had anything to do with
> filtering/smoothing the car's 12VDC supply voltage, in the manner that
most
> electrolytics are used in automobile electronics,  and which a reader of
the
> years-long Governor Computer thread would very likely assume from all the
> discussions about them failing from inductive kickback /counter EMF off of
> jump starts and the like (I suspect you assumed this too, Ralf), then I'd
> agree completely on the risk of shorts, heat and explosion from improperly
> installed capacitors
......

Mark!

Your suspicion is true. I never actually saw a GC and I don't have a
schematic for it (I don't need to, because I have a D with manual
transmission). My assumption that the caps in question were used for
filtering the 12V supply was based on hearsay and is wrong. I think, now I
have to apologize. For a really profound analysis I should have taken a look
at a schematic in the first place. Nevertheless, my statements hold true in
applications were caps are used for supply voltage filtering... :-)

Thank you for your detailed explanation of the GC. I now can fully agree to
your statements. A hazard of fire or explosion is only given if there is
enough current flow through the reversed cap. With a high enough series
resistor in front of the cap the situation isn't very critical. I am sure
that this resistor is the main reason why your caps worked such a long time
in "reversed mode".

How about putting an improved schematic in the files section? A while ago
someone gave some clues how to "strengthen" the GC against inductive
kickback etc. Was it you?


Matthew!

Like Mark states correctly, voltage surges are no concern in this
application. So it is absolutely safe to use tantalums. Other than
electrolytic caps, the tantalums will last nearly indefinitely in this
application. But once more: Observe the right polarity. If you are unsure
about the markings on the case: The longer lead is the positive terminal.


Ralf.
VIN10284




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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:46:10 EST
From: Delorean17_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: gas build up when sitting

Hello List,
    When my car sits for over 4 days it becomes extremely hard to 
start.(15-20 secs of cranking)  A ton of white smoke comes out of the exhaust 
when it does start and it smells like gas VERY strongly.  what could be 
causing unburnt gas to build up in the system when it sits?  any ideas?
    I did not start it this entire week and now it wont even start at all, 
just sputters and smells like gas.  what should I do?  usually I start it 
every 3 days so it will start when I need it.

Thanks
David
#2496



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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 19:08:50 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: Cold engine and smoke

When I see white smoke the first thing I think of if it doesn't clear 
up in a few minutes of running is a cracked head or blown head gasket 
usually due to overheating. This is not too common on Deloreans but it 
can happen. Pressure test the cooling system to rule out. With 
pressure on while running the pressure should't drop and the amount of 
smoke comming out shouldn't change. There are also more involved tests 
such as testing for products of combustion in the coolant, compression 
tests on the cylinders, and leakdown testing. Does the cooling system 
always produce bubbles, and are you adding coolant? On the other hand 
are you adding motor oil and do you know what your fuel 
consumption/mileage is. All of these factor into a diagnosis. Put your 
finger into the exhaust pipe, is it dripping wet, black and flakey, or 
just oily? Make sure the motor oil level is not "over full". This 
could cause oil burning.


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> If the smoke has a blue tint and smells oily John is correct, on the 
other
> hand if the smoke is pure white it may be caused by un-burnt fuel in 
the
> combustion chamber. This problem is usually a result of a 
malfunctioning
> cold start valve, fuel distributor, or out of tolerance CO 
adjustment.
> 
> "We're here to help you"
> 





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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:41:25 EST
From: CIAsleeper22_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: The Delorean's bad habits.

I just bought a DeLorean not too long ago thats spent the last 19 years in 
san franscisco.....it starts right up every time.

Justin
5172



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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 22:14:01 -0000
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com
Subject: Re: Cold engine and smoke

Usually if it is burning Antifreeze (from a cracked head of leaking 
head gasket) you can tell. If you go behind the car as the engine is 
idling, there will be sort of like a sweet smell to the exhaust. I AM 
NOT SAYING TO PUT YOUR FACE NEAR THE EXHAUST PIPE! Just have the car 
parked outside and idling and stand behind it for a second. You'll be 
able to smell it. Also your D will overheat very easily if it is a 
cracked head or blown head gasket causing the antifreeze burn. Since 
the D's system is a closed cooling system, it needs pressure...any 
loss of pressure will result in an overheat. Just because an exhaust 
pipe drips some water dosen't mean it has a coolant leak. It can be 
from a build up moisture in the exhaust system itself from the car 
sitting either overnight or for an extended amount of time. Don't go 
by that. If the Exhaust pipe (inside of it) is dark black it can 
suggest a number of things, not just burning oil (example: engine 
running to rich). A cracked head is VERY rare. I think what the 
problem is as DMC Joe pointed out, excess gas in the cylinders that 
is being burned off when he starts his car. What is causing this? 
That I do not know for sure. Faulty cold start valve? a Bad injector 
not closing properly after the pressure drops allowing gas to drip 
into the cylinder?

Steve

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., jtrealty_at_dml_w... wrote:
> When I see white smoke the first thing I think of if it doesn't 
clear 
> up in a few minutes of running is a cracked head or blown head 
gasket 
> usually due to overheating. This is not too common on Deloreans but 
it 
> can happen. Pressure test the cooling system to rule out. With 
> pressure on while running the pressure should't drop and the amount 
of 
> smoke comming out shouldn't change. There are also more involved 
tests 
> such as testing for products of combustion in the coolant, 
compression 
> tests on the cylinders, and leakdown testing. Does the cooling 
system 
> always produce bubbles, and are you adding coolant? On the other 
hand 
> are you adding motor oil and do you know what your fuel 
> consumption/mileage is. All of these factor into a diagnosis. Put 
your 
> finger into the exhaust pipe, is it dripping wet, black and flakey, 
or 
> just oily? Make sure the motor oil level is not "over full". This 
> could cause oil burning.
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> > If the smoke has a blue tint and smells oily John is correct, on 
the 
> other
> > hand if the smoke is pure white it may be caused by un-burnt fuel 
in 
> the
> > combustion chamber. This problem is usually a result of a 
> malfunctioning
> > cold start valve, fuel distributor, or out of tolerance CO 
> adjustment.
> > 
> > "We're here to help you"
> >




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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 22:47:32 -0000
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com
Subject: Sunstar 1:18 Delorean model.

Just an FYI to the list (and those interested in the model):

I went to http://www.diecastmuscle.com/delorean.htm and saw that they 
have a date now when they will be getting the 1:18th scale dicast 
model of the Delorean. Date is June 2001. I called them up and it 
looks like they are starting to take pre-orders! So I pre-ordered 
mine ;). 

Steve




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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:25:53 -0500
From: "Michael C. Babb, MCSE, MCT, MCP-I, CNA, CCNA" <michael_at_dml_babbtechnology.com>
Subject: RE: The DeLorean's bad habits. (cold weather use)

I had my DeLorean out in Colorado for 2 winters, and when the roads were
clear I drove it every day.  It did great in 10 degree weather.  Never had
any problems getting it started, or keeping it running in either the cold or
the heat.

If you are worried about having to get the car running after a dead battery,
it might be worth your money to get a jump pack (like are found on tow
trucks).  For ~$100 you can get a mobile jumper that will stow in the hood
for emergency jump starts

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: rpeckhoff_at_dml_yahoo.com [mailto:rpeckhoff_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 11:27 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] The Delorean's bad habits.


Hey All,
	I am in the process of getting a D and I have a few questions for all
the long time owners.  I live in San Franciso, It's temperature is
usually about 50 degrees.  I was wondering what starting the Delorean
is like in the mildly cold weather every single day of the year?  Plus
I am planning on doing my daily errands in the D.  Does the D have any
problem with starting and stopping some 15 times a day in cold weather
or warm for that matter?  I also was wondering how much the average
cost annualy it is to maintain the D.  Also has anyone had any
experience in push starting one(just in case)?  How hard is it to push
start?

Robert Eckhoff
vin #<hee hee i hope> ;-)



Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:59:52 -0600
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>
Subject: Re: Auto trans governor schematics

No problem, Ralf. I have only rather crude sketches of the circuit that I
reverse engineered. Intended to get the schetches into a decent schematic
capture program. Had one board finished then lost access to the program.
I've owed Mr. Teitelbaum these drawings for a long time (he was and remains
both very patient and a big help in figuring out intricate details of this
stuff, and provided a number of pieces that were dissected for hidden
secrets). So eventually these diagrams can be generally available as the
final pieces of the puzzle.

Several folks have expressed interest in making a modern replacement,
especially in anticipation of more horsepower from DMC Houston. Haven' t
talked to Bob Zilla yet...may not be enough autotrans owners in distress out
there to make one financially viable.
Would be fun, though...
file://mark




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Message: 22
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 02:58:06 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: gas build up when sitting

I would start with checking out the cold start valve and associated 
system parts for correct operation. This could involve using a 
pressure gauge for a more in depth analysis. It could also be that the 
engine is just set way too rich, what is your gas mileage? You could 
also have bad ignition wires, worn spark plugs, vacuum leaks, etc. 
Depending on how much care the car has had will determine were to 
start. If you have never done a tune-up and the car has some mileage 
on it now might be a good time. The gas smell could even be a fuel 
leak which you would only notice when the motor is running or right 
after you shut down. Typically a car could sit for months and as long 
as the battery is charged up it should start right up with maybe a 
small puff of smoke and a smell until the cat heats up.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


-- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Delorean17_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hello List,
>     When my car sits for over 4 days it becomes extremely hard to 
> start.(15-20 secs of cranking)  A ton of white smoke comes out of 
the exhaust 
> when it does start and it smells like gas VERY strongly.  what could 
be 
> causing unburnt gas to build up in the system when it sits?  any 
ideas?
>     I did not start it this entire week and now it wont even start 
at all, 
> just sputters and smells like gas.  what should I do?  usually I 
start it 
> every 3 days so it will start when I need it.
> 
> Thanks
> David
> #2496




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Message: 23
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:19:46 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: AC and fanzilla question

Kevin, I will email you. 
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com
Home of the De Lorean 150 & The Fan Fix.



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Message: 24
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:57:22 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: AC and fanzilla question

Kevin, The cycling of the compressor / relays is due to low freon more than 
likely. Also, as the air conditioner is running, how fast the fan is blowing 
over the evaporator coil also has to do with how it cycles on and off. The 
air system is trying not to let you freez it up by not running the fan over 
the coil fast enough. You also have relays for the fan speed, and a circut 
breaker that may be kicking on and off. Normally is't not just one thing it 
can be a combination. The Fan Fix is a very simple design that uses the right 
part for the right job. If that was done in the beginning with De Lorean, 
there wouldn't be a Fix or a Zilla. My fan fix also addresses the low voltage 
problem to the main relay that the Zilla doesn't. Again, Just a very common 
sence approach to a very simple problem. Plus mine is only $65.00, not 
$200.00+. Guaranteed.I own three cars as you can see on the web site, so I 
have stuided the problems out. Plus I was in electronics for years. But, I'm 
not an engineer.If you look at other parts that the big dealers sell. Just do 
a comparison.
SpecialTauto.com                                            There's
De Lorean 150 amp Alt. $195.00                 There's 105 amp $350.00
Fan Fix $65.00                                          There's $200.00
Fan Fail $19.95                                         There's None
With mine you have extra protection 
and can run onr or two fans at a time.
My new Cooling Fans $179.00 exchange      There's $250.00 ea no exchange.
$20..00 core allowance=$159.00
I just got tired of seeing over inflated prices.
Does this help
Call me if you want more.
800-413-3300 office 9-5
972-564-9321 home 
972-672-3739 cell
John Hervey 



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