From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 451
Date: Sunday, March 11, 2001 8:31 PM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Re: ignition key?
From: "Patrick Cowan" <LilRedCivic_at_dml_cox.rr.com>

2. Re: ignition key?
From: Mark Noeltner <mark_at_dml_buffalochips.org>

3. Re: ignition key?
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com

4. Craig radio display
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>

5. Fans run continuous
From: tmasterlc_at_dml_msn.com

6. Filling holes
From: rorx2000_at_dml_yahoo.com

7. Townsend TN May 5 Car Show
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

8. Re.Re.fixing sender unit
From: "Vin#5462" <dmc12_at_dml_btinternet.com>

9. Re: Townsend TN May 5 Car Show
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com

10. Interior Lights
From: Willie Mack <wmack_at_dml_vt.edu>

11. Got the D home!
From: "Jim Reeve"<ultra_at_dml_isd.net>

12. Re: Fans run continuous
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>

13. Re: Fans run continuous
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com

14. Clutch stuff
From: Joe Palatinus <jpalatinus_at_dml_earthlink.net>

15. Re: Fans run continuous
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com

16. Re: Interior Lights
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com

17. Storage of a Car
From: Michael Pike <iqintermedia_at_dml_yahoo.com>

18. RE: Fans run continuous
From: "Doc" <doctor280_at_dml_triad.rr.com>

19. Continuous fans
From: tmasterlc_at_dml_msn.com

20. DeLorean Time Machine in Seattle
From: marlus_at_dml_devoltaparaofuturo.com

21. Re: Re: Interior Lights
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

22. Re: Re.Re.fixing sender unit
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

23. Re: Clutch stuff (long)
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com

24. Re: Interior Lights
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>

25. Ken K Chicago Meeting
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 00:46:52 -0500
From: "Patrick Cowan" <LilRedCivic_at_dml_cox.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re: ignition key?

anyone in No.VA, DC, MD, i suggest going to Yates Auto or Carquest...i got
my Type R key for my civic cut tehre...the key was 50 bucks, and they cut it
for a buck!

Patrick Cowan
Entusiast/Honda owner
----- Original Message -----
From: David Swingle <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 12:46 AM
Subject: [DML] Re: ignition key?


> I would not be afraid of a competent locksmith. Did you actually ask
> one for a price?  I had mine done at one - I think it cost about $2



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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 08:05:48 -0600
From: Mark Noeltner <mark_at_dml_buffalochips.org>
Subject: Re: ignition key?

I only go to a locksmith anymore. I normally only pay $2 or $3 per key and
they virtually always work. Last time I went to Wal-mart only one out of 5
keys worked. And this is with the Axxess machine that supposedly eliminates
bad keys. But the machine is only as good as the person operating it, and
Wal-mart and Sears employees just don't have the experience that a good
locksmith has.

You pay more for keys upfront at the locksmith, but you save money by not
having to make multiple trips back to get the bad keys recut.

Just MHO.

Mark N
VIN 6820

At 06:12 PM 3/10/01 -0800, Michael Pike wrote:
>I bought two blank keys from DMC in Houston, and I'll
>be damned if I can find anyone to copy them...
>
>Anyone have any ideas?
>
>Walmart says they cant because their machine is made
>by Axxess, and they wont fit, Sears wont because they
>are afraid they will screw it up (I even told them i
>wouldnt hold them liable for a screwed up key, but
>they still wouldnt touch it).
>I heard locksmiths stick ya for price, and after
>spending $30/key, I dont wanna spend another $50 to
>get them copied...
>
>any help appreciated,
>Mike
>855



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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:08:53 EST
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: ignition key?

Mike,
Do you have a local mom and pop hardware store? If so they will cut them for 
you with no problem. The big national chains will not do it because they are 
afraid if they mess it up you will sue. Try the locally owned hardware store. 
Good Luck
Bruce Battles
Vin # 6569


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 07:22:08 -0800
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>
Subject: Craig radio display

My first thought is that if you have a working display, and you want to
play tapes, it might be wise to try to prolong it's life rather than
waiting for it to break and then working out a fix.  What seems an
obvious primary solution is a thin coat of clear silicone seal, front
and back, at the break point.  That would add strength where desperately
needed and would certainly maintain or enhance flexibility.  I think it
would also move that flex point slightly, anyone disagree with any of
this?  Frank, your spin?

Thanks, Les




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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 16:11:03 -0000
From: tmasterlc_at_dml_msn.com
Subject: Fans run continuous

Ive searched the archives but can only find info on fans that do not 
work.

Our fans used to cycle on and off with engine temp but now run 
continuous from the moment the key is turned on and never shut off.

Any help would be appreciated.

Ron & Cheryl
#6322




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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 16:47:58 -0000
From: rorx2000_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: Filling holes

[MODERATOR NOTE - Refer to:
http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/waterpumpDMC.html
and archive yahoogroups message 7243]

Can anyone tell me what i can fill the holes on top of the engine, 
under the intake exhaust with. I read a post once that said if water 
and dirt get trapped there, it can eat thru to the metal into the 
engine? Can I fill the holes with something before this happens? 

Thanks
Rory
VIN#3010
"Blade"




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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 11:30:44 -0600
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Townsend TN May 5 Car Show

I have participated in this car show that Sean talks about in the post
below.  Let me tell you, this show is great.  The Smoky Mountains are
fantastic this time of year.  The dinner is well worth the price.  We had a
lot of fun.

Unfortunately, Little League commitments will prevent me and my family from
participating this year.

Bruce Battles can fill you in about his impressions of the Townsend, TN show
held on  May 5, this year.

Scott Mueller
DMCNEWS 002981
DOA

-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Howley [mailto:tsuyoi_at_dml_mindspring.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 10:16 PM
To: DMC News
Subject: [DML] Car Show


I know it is early, but this will give all of you (that are interested) time
to plan and also, there is a deadline for registering.  There is a British
Car Show coming up this May 5th.  Our DeLoreans will have their own class
too.  The main problem and reason for signing up early is that last year,
there were so many cars that showed up, they ran out of room!  This year
they have changed things around to limit the number of cars.  Only those
that pre-register will be allowed to participate any we all have until April
10 to do this at a cost of $15.  The show takes place in Townsend, TN



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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:07:14 -0000
From: "Vin#5462" <dmc12_at_dml_btinternet.com>
Subject: Re.Re.fixing sender unit

Perhaps I did overrate the simplicity of fixing the sender unit, no offence
meant, I find that some of my messages tend to cause a stir, it's so hard to
write e-mails which can only be interpreted as you want them to be, if any
of my future posts annoy you apologies in advance ;-)

Regards

James RG




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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:51:34 EST
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Townsend TN May 5 Car Show

DML,
The Townsend show is one of the best shows I have ever been in. I missed last 
years and will have to miss this years, however if I was going to only make 
one show this year , it would be the Townsend show. It is a British car show. 
I convinced them two years ago to give the Deloreans a class to ourselves. Up 
until then we were in the odd class, meaning Rolls Royce and Rileys. Two 
years ago ( check back issues) we had 5 Deloreans and they gave us a special 
place in the best spot of the show. As Scott has posted, it is in the Smokey 
Mountains and is breath taking. The proceeds from the show go to the Blount 
County Children's home. This is a chance to see a bunch of great cars and to 
ride or drive about every make and model of British cars around. The people 
are so of the nicest you will ever find, and the food, well let me put it 
this way the BBQ is to die for. If you get a chance DO make this show. If Bob 
Miller  or Joe P. are reading this they too can post their feelings about 
this show. This year will not be able to make it, but am still trying to 
change my plans. If I can make it I'll post that I'm coming. If not good luck 
to those who go. I know it will be a weekend to remember!!!
Bruce Battles
Vin# 06569


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 13:23:18 -0500
From: Willie Mack <wmack_at_dml_vt.edu>
Subject: Interior Lights

I just replaced my interior lights with cabin lights from a 1995 Hummer.

Willie Mack



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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:26:41 GMT
From: "Jim Reeve"<ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Got the D home!

Man, do I love this car!  For those of you who checked out my message early last
week, I stated that I was going to be driving my car home without my front body
panels.  I did so today, and it sure was fun!  I also asked about the cooling
system since my header bottle was empty.  Well, I was unable to open the bleeder
screw, but topping off the header bottle seemed to work fine.  The temperature
gauge never even got to the 160 tick.  The car started much better than I had
thought too.  The engine had sat for about 4 months untouched.  I was going
to turn the starter several seconds at a time then pausing, so I could build
up oil pressure while at the same time building up fuel pressure.  I guess I
had more fuel pressure in there than I thought, because about 3-4 seconds after
the first go with the starter, it fired right up!  Ran flawlessly too.  I must
say, for a 20 year old car, the DeLorean sure is a robust automobile.  Now begins
the grueling task of my comprehensive tuneup, and hopefully I will be done with
everything by May 1st.  See you in Houston!

Jim Reeve
MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club
DMC6960



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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:58:36 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Re: Fans run continuous

Is your AC turned on?  Even without the engine running, when the mode 
switch is selected on AC (max/norm) or Bi-Lev, it will activate the AC 
compressor.  This in turn, turns on the fans.  Without the engine 
running, the compressor will not cycle, so it will give the impression 
that the fans are always staying on.  If this is the case, turn the 
mode switch off, or start the engine so the compressor cycles, and the 
fans should start acting normal again.  If this doesn't cure the 
problem, you could have a stuck relay (but that would keep the fans 
running without the car on, so this is probably not it); or there 
could be a problem with your otterswitch which is keeping the fans 
activated.  The otterswitch is what turns on the fans when the coolant 
reaches a certain temperature.  To check the otterswitch, go back into 
the engine compartment, and look for the aluminum cooling pipe along 
the driver's side of the engine.  Either on the top or bottom side of 
this, you should see two wires going into a plug.  Disconnect one or 
both of them and see if the fans turn off.  If they do, your 
otterswitch is bad, and needs to be replaced.  (Plug them back in 
though, better to have the fans always on than not on at all!)  If 
not, you probably have a short somewhere else in the system, which I 
have no clue how to fix.  Good Luck!

Jim Reeve
MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club
DMC6960

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., tmasterlc_at_dml_m... wrote:
> Ive searched the archives but can only find info on fans that do not 
> work.
> 
> Our fans used to cycle on and off with engine temp but now run 
> continuous from the moment the key is turned on and never shut off.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Ron & Cheryl
> #6322




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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:15:08 EST
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Fans run continuous

In a message dated 3/11/01 12:37:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
tmasterlc_at_dml_msn.com writes:

<< Our fans used to cycle on and off with engine temp but now run 
 continuous from the moment the key is turned on and never shut off. >>

Sounds like the otterstat is bad.  To determine this....in the engine 
compartment on the drivers side, u should see 2 wires going to the cooling 
pipes, on the top part of that cooling pipe, you will see a clip that goes 
around it, that is where the otterstat is located, disconnect those wires, 
and see if the cooling fans go off.  If they do, then thats your culprit.  
The otterstat is about $20.00, don't forget to replace the seal too while 
your at it.

Later,
Nick
1852
<A HREF="Http://members.aol.com/njp548">Http://members.aol.com/njp548</A>



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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 14:37:50 -0500
From: Joe Palatinus <jpalatinus_at_dml_earthlink.net>
Subject: Clutch stuff

When I got my car the previous owner told me he replaced all the hydralics
and I believed him he had invoices from DMC houston and the clutch
cylinders don't look too old, but when I bled the clutch luid about a year
after I got the car it was blacker and gunkier than 20 year old fluid.  I
put in new fluid, but I feel my clutch slowly deteriorating.  I grind once
or twice a week and the clutch needs to be asolutle to the floor inorder to
engage.  I took off that hose inspection panel for the first time today and
I noticed that the hose that goes from the fluid container to the cylinder
looks to be desintegrating.  I believe that this hose is being eaten up byt
he fluid inside out.  Does this sound likely.  If someone uses bad low
quality rubber can the fluid eat it.  I know I will probably need a new
cylinder set soon, but if I were to just replace this hose and re bleed the
system could that fix my problem.  All comenets and advice are welcomed. 

PS I do have the SS clutch lince installed so that is not an issue.

Joe Palatinus
VIN 17167 6808




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Message: 15
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 20:34:37 -0000
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com
Subject: Re: Fans run continuous

Sounds like a possible bad otterstat. In the engine comparment on the 
left side is a metal coolant pipe. This is where the otterstat is 
located. Looking at your VIN#, the otterstat will be on the bottom. 
Disconnect one of the wires and see if that turns the fans off. If 
there is still no change, then the problem is likely to be the Cooling 
Fan Relay (not to be confused with the fan fail relay!).

-Robert
vin 6585



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., tmasterlc_at_dml_m... wrote:
> Ive searched the archives but can only find info on fans that do not 
> work.
> 
> Our fans used to cycle on and off with engine temp but now run 
> continuous from the moment the key is turned on and never shut off.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Ron & Cheryl
> #6322




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Message: 16
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 20:42:25 -0000
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com
Subject: Re: Interior Lights

A while back there was a discussion about the cabin lights. If I 
remember correctly, the lights from the Hummer work differently from 
the DeLorean one's. To get them to work the same, they have to be 
modified. DMC Houston sells new replacements with glass lenses that 
drop right in w/no mods.

-Robert
vin 6585



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Willie Mack <wmack_at_dml_v...> wrote:
> I just replaced my interior lights with cabin lights from a 1995 
Hummer.
> 
> Willie Mack




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Message: 17
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 13:31:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Pike <iqintermedia_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Storage of a Car

Ok, here is my situtation....

I've got an early DMC, its got less than 4200 original
miles, everything original on it (looking at the motor
the hoses may have been replaced at one time, although
the guy I got it from had it drained of gas and fluids
before he stored it, a smart move most dont make).

He put a Slick50 type substance in it, and only ran
synthetic oil in it (another good move)....

The car is literally in perfect shape, there arent
even crease marks in the leather seats from sitting in
them.

I have yet to see another Delorean in this shape
anywhere....and I'm beginning to get paranoid driving
it.. I weigh a little more than I should, and I dont
want to begin wearing into the car...

I'm looking for another D in great shape, because I
want to keep this one how it is...

I know storage for these things is terrible.... what
the guy used to do to keep the mileage low is just go
out and start it for 30 minutes once a month... hell I
drive the thing once every two weeks, and when I go
get it out of the garage, it sounds like an old man
getting out of a rocking chair, and creeks and cracks
until its driven (front end not being lubed I am
guessing)..

When I get the second D, this one will go out on very
RARE occasions, probably the twice a year mark...

Is draining of the gas tank the only thing I should
worry about?  Since synthetic oil is being used, I
dont think it will stale... and fluids such as
anti-freeze do not eat through things that I am aware
of (although I realize replacements need to happen on
that as well).

I hate to put it in a storage mode, but I'm afraid if
I keep driving it, it's beauty wont stay as it is
now...but at the same time, the thing was built to be
driven... I know right now there are plenty of
Delorean sources (PJ Grady, DMC Houston, DMCJoe,
etc.), but I am looking long term, 10 years, 15
years.. when my son will inherit these cars.... will
they still be able to be restored, and thats my
interest in keeping 855 in perfect shape.

Mike
Vin 855 (and looking for another Pristine Shape D)


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



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Message: 18
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:06:40 -0500
From: "Doc" <doctor280_at_dml_triad.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Fans run continuous

Ron & Cheryl wrote,
Our fans used to cycle on and off with engine temp but now run
continuous from the moment the key is turned on and never shut off.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Check the thermal coolant fan switch, follow these steps:
(This switch is located in the coolant return pipe that is located in the
engine compartment. You can get to the switch from under the car on the left
side.)

1) Start the engine. If the fans are running all the time they will be
running now.

2) Slide under the left rear of the car, where you can see the thermal
coolant fan switch.

3) Disconnect one of the two wire that are plugged into the thermal coolant
fan switch.

4) If the fans cut off at this point the switch is your problem.
(There is also a diagram of this on my web site.
http://stainlesssteel.freeyellow.com/index.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------
It should be noted that I had received new sending units that would only
work for about three days.....I cured this problem when I found a OEM
sending unit. Don't know if the venders have cured this problem or not. The
Volvo sending unit setting are a little to cool for the Delorean but it will
work, only problem is that the fans will run a little longer.

If you require any additional information contact me by e-mail. (address is
on my site.)

Robert Starling
Vin#5252




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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 00:20:56 -0000
From: tmasterlc_at_dml_msn.com
Subject: Continuous fans

Wow, four out of four say its the otterstat! Sounds like a sure 
thing. 

Checked it out and sure enough, fans shut off as soon as you unplug 
it.  Luckily I have a new one on hand to replace it with.

Thanks

Ron & Cheryl
#6322
BK2-FTR




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Message: 20
Date: 11 Mar 2001 15:51:29 -0800
From: marlus_at_dml_devoltaparaofuturo.com
Subject: DeLorean Time Machine in Seattle

I saw in ABC channel today that there will be a car
exibithion show in Seattle next Thursday to Sunday. 
There will be famous cars like Batmobile, the car from
"Dukes of Hazzard" and the DeLorean Time Machine.
Does someone know more about this event, and who the
time machine belongs to?

Thanks

Marlus Pertile
Olympia, WA


-------------------------------------
Register for your free domain name!
Plus free email and a personal portal 
http://www.namedemo.com



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Message: 21
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:36:30 EST
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Re: Interior Lights


DML,
    
    When I was an undergraduate student, a good friend of mine drove a 1995 
Hummer. I was the person who discovered the light and posted the Hummer parts 
sheet to the list in September of 1995.
    It works the same way, however you need to find James Espey's post from 
1995 when he purchased one and tested it.
    I understand the Chrysler light is the same as the DMC. 
I suggest buying the correct part from any of the DMC suppliers. Don't risk 
the chance of fire.

Sincerely,
Mike Pack 



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Message: 22
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 00:59:37 -0000
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re.Re.fixing sender unit

James, Don't worry about trying to start a stir. It doesn't take much 
when someone else can fix the units and some can't. All they can do 
is criticize the efforts of others. And if they sell tank sending 
units, then even more reasons to criticize. With good basic 
electronic knowledge, you can take the unit apart as you did, see 
where the moisture corrsion has eaten away the solder and a either re 
wire or re attach the wires or wires. I have done two units and 
nothing blew up. I even put them in my car and drove it around. I 
reset the ohmage on the slide by repositioning the resistor wire that 
is wound around the hollow tube, then re positioned it to the 
stationary metal rod which after 20 years was still in tack. Good 
workmanship. What I'm seeing is where moisture has gotton to the 
solder and corroded the wire or joint. There was nothing I couldn't 
fix in under an hour on either unit.I was sent given a bad unit that 
had been sitting for years and I will be sending it back to him 
repaired as good as new.
James the one other thing to do ????????. Email me for this Fix. Yes 
the Fuel Sending unit Fix.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com    

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Vin#5462" <dmc12_at_dml_b...> wrote:
> Perhaps I did overrate the simplicity of fixing the sender unit, no 
offence
> meant, I find that some of my messages tend to cause a stir, it's 
so hard to
> write e-mails which can only be interpreted as you want them to be, 
if any
> of my future posts annoy you apologies in advance ;-)
> 
> Regards
> 
> James RG




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Message: 23
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 01:52:33 -0000
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com
Subject: Re: Clutch stuff (long)

Black clutch fluid is bad. Especially if it has any viscosity or 
"thickness" to it. Clean clutch fluid (DOT4) should be a light-gold, 
yet transparent color. By the discription you've given, it sounds like 
bad fluid. The question here shouldn't be if the previous owner used 
new hydrolic parts, it's if he reused the old clutch fluid. New parts 
don't stand a chance against contaminated clutch fluid. Also a concern 
should be the hose connected between the reserviour and the master 
cylinder. The inner hose my car for example was slightly deteriorated, 
but the outside was rock hard. Using substandard parts isn't a good 
idea because the fluid can be corrosive and eat away at the rubber 
causing debries to form in the lines.

This is the best way to describe how the fluid works, and how/why it 
fails. Liquids can be compressed to take up less space then they 
currently occupy. The differance between water and clutch fluid is 
that it takes MUCH more pressure to compress clutch fluid then it does 
water. So, rather then using a rod or a cable to link the clutch to 
the pedal, clutch fluid is used. It ends up being almost the same, 
except now rather then something solid that would have to have been 
designed and accomodated in the car, a liquid can be used. Advantages 
include both less space required, less engineering involved, and it 
can go thru tighter twists and turns. Think of it like a liquid rod.

When clutch fulid fails (usually thru water contamination), the 
pressue that is nessisary to compress the fluid is reduced. Which is 
why you end up having to press harder/further on the clutch pedal. 
Another negative side is that it can become corrosive twards the 
rubber seals and hoses in the system. Another symptom can also be air 
in the line (also compressable). And since air can contain moisture, 
water can be absorbed from exposed air.

(DISCLAIMER: I know that there is ALOT more to the explanation of 
hydrolic operations and applications. But this is only a quick run 
thru to give a general idea.)

When ever you bleed or flush a hydrolic system be it the brakes or 
your clutch line, you MUST ALWAYS USE FRESH FLUID FROM A SEALED 
CONTAINER!

1. The fluid inside has already met with air/moisture/debries and 
should always be considered contaminated.
2. If not inside, the the bleeder screw and/or the container that you 
collect the fulid in is probably dirty.
3. In either case, at least one of the above factors will be true. If 
you put the fluid back into the reserviour, you will taint the entire 
system.

The blackness of the fluid is dirt and might be rubber that has been 
eaten off by the fluid from 1 or more components of the system.

Solution: Replace the hose from between the master cylinder and the 
resivour. Either buy a new one from your friendly parts vendor, or use 
a suitable replacement. If you choose to create your own, here's what 
to do: Remove the rubber hose, and take it to some place like 
carquest. Ask them for a hose that will withstand DOT4 brake fluid. 
Get the new hose to match the largest diamiter of the old hose (where 
it connects to the nubs). When sizing up the new hose, make it long 
enough to reach between the two connection points, but short enough 
that it doesn't bend up to keep air bubbles in the line. Bleed the 
system and see if that makes a differance.

Until you complete either this or any repairs, do not drive your car 
if you can help it. As you can damage the clutch.

How the clutch works:

Setup/location:
The clutch pressure place is bolted onto the flywheel. The clutch disc 
itself sits between the flywheel and clutch pressure plate. The clutch 
disc is connected directly to the input shaft on your transmission.
How it all works:
The pressure plate acts like a clamp. When the clamp is applied the 
clutch disc is pinned in between the pressure place and the flywheel. 
When this happens, all three componets will spin as one single unit, 
thus transfering power from the engine directly to the tranmission.
Why it can fail (1 reason):
All clutches will fail eventually. This is why they are considered 
wearable parts, and usually NOT convered by bumper to bumper 
waranties. How and when depend on 2 factors: The clutch system, and 
the driver.

Excluding normal usage (100K-150K miles), here is what causes 
premature clutch slippage. As you know, the pressure plate clamps the 
clutch disc. But, if the force of the plate pressure isn't fully 
applied to the clutch disc, then the clamp and the flywheel are not 
able to fully grip the disc. Even though you can still accellerate, 
the disc is spinning at a different speed then the flywheel and the 
pressure plate. Aside from not being able to fully utilize the power 
being put out by the engine, you are also damaging the clutch. As the 
flywheel and pressure plate spin around the clutch disc, they are both 
slowly scraping away at it's surface. When the clutch finally fails, 
the pressure plate and the fly wheel will not be able to properly grip 
the disc. The result will start as poor accelleration, and end up as 
no accelleration at all. In other words, it will literally slip 
through it's grasp. Thus the term clutch slippage. Both cases of this 
type of premature failure are usually caused by 1 of 3 reasons: 1. 
Defective clutch (rare). Misadjusted/defective clutch release system 
(hydrolic or cable. Can happen, but not common with normal 
maintenance/newer cars). 3. Driver error (hard rabbit starts, double 
clutching, or the most common reason for this is the drive always 
"rides" the clutch and doesn't take thier foot off). Driver error is 
usually the absolute most common reason for premature clutch failure.

There are also 2 other parts to the clutch system: The throw out 
bearing, and the pilot bearing. The pilot bearing supports the end of 
the input shaft on the transmission. And the Throwour bearing is what 
pushes the spring on the clutch to release it. Since these also help 
the clutch in it's task, that's why all 5 parts wear the same as 1 
unit, and should be replaced as so.

If your clutch fails, do not drive the car if you can help it. The 
clutch disc uses metal rivits to hold the clutch material in place. 
When the material is gone is when the clutch slips. And the rivets 
will cut into the flywheel. Anytime you replace a clutch, the flywheel 
MUST be resurfaced. But just like brake rotors, it can only be ground 
down so far. Too far and the flywheel will then need to be replaced as 
well.

Differance between the regular Centerforce Clutch vs. OEM:

Comparing the the two clutches side by side, I have only seen 1 
physical differance between the 2: Counterweights. As the engine spins 
faster, centrifical force pushes the weights out. This then causes the 
weights to apply extra pressure to the pressure plate above what it 
already has. This produces the extra gripping power that the 
Centerforce is able to boast. Clutch disc wise, I don't see a 
differance between the two. The look exactly the same, down to their 
manufacturers.


I hope that everything above helps everyone here to understand not 
just how their clutches work and fail. But also to help know how to 
take care of them to extend their lifespan. Hopefully this will not 
only answer questions that my be asked today, but tomorrow as well...

-Robert
vin 6585




--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Joe Palatinus <jpalatinus_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> When I got my car the previous owner told me he replaced all the 
hydralics
> and I believed him he had invoices from DMC houston and the clutch
> cylinders don't look too old, but when I bled the clutch luid about 
a year
> after I got the car it was blacker and gunkier than 20 year old 
fluid.  I
> put in new fluid, but I feel my clutch slowly deteriorating.
<SNIP>




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Message: 24
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:58:38 -0800
From: "Mark Hershey" <dmcinfo_at_dml_thehersheys.com>
Subject: Re: Interior Lights

Never tried the Hummer lights but the replacement interior light from DMC
Houston is a very high quality unit

Mine, at least, was not glass but a very high quality acrylic that looks
enough like glass, and has a similar  heft or "mass" , that it would be easy
to mistake for glass. It has Hella molded in the lens. The metal frame has a
spring loaded bullet catch to hold it in, making it easy to pry out when
needed without any damage. Highly recommended and it requires no
modification

\\Mark.





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Message: 25
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 20:16:40 -0600
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Ken K Chicago Meeting

Chicago-area list members:

We've got something set up for our impromptu get-together with Ken Koncelic
while he's here in Chicago. No big agenda. just some DMC-chat.

We'll be getting together at Prairie Rock Brewing Co. in Schaumburg, on
Wednesday evening.  If you are interested in details, please contact me
privately so we know how many to plan for.

Due to the time of year, I'd not expect a lot of DeLoreans to show up.

Dave Swingle
email dswingle(AT)enteract.com




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