From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 472
Date: Sunday, March 25, 2001 5:18 AM

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There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. radio wiring
From: mrvideosawyer_at_dml_netscape.net

2. stainless steel fascias
From: delorean502_at_dml_excite.com

3. Re: need to adjust mixture levels?
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com

4. pics
From: daren57_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk

5. VIN 10115 FOR SALE in the Atlanta Area
From: "Ben" <tahoe98_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. updates to my car troubles!
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

7. Cooling Fans
From: paulheymeson_at_dml_thefreeinternet.co.uk

8. Re: Fuel System Explained.
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>

9. EUROFEST 2001
From: ROBLAMROCK_at_dml_aol.com

10. Re: radio wiring
From: "sk1pper" <sk1pper_at_dml_intersurf.com>

11. Hello list
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>

12. Re: radio wiring
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

13. Re: Cooling Fans
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

14. DMC-2
From: "Brian McCool" <bjmccool_at_dml_home.com>

15. Re: Cooling Fans
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

16. Re: updates to my car troubles!
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

17. Re: Hello list
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>

18. Radio wiring
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>

19. Re: Hello list
From: sand131_at_dml_aol.com

20. DeLorean Sightings
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com

21. Beware of Jag Shop - PLEASE READ
From: "Tom Niemczewski" <tomcio_at_dml_jamesik.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 00:06:46 -0500
From: mrvideosawyer_at_dml_netscape.net
Subject: radio wiring

Group,
Well got the mode switch out and repaired.  Now instead of just putting that bad boy back together a new radio seemed in order.  The problem is most radios come with more wires than the craig unit. Has anyone replaced their radio and what was the wiring proceedure?

Thanks in advance
Jim 
4149 "ELMO"
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/



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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 05:25:01 -0000
From: delorean502_at_dml_excite.com
Subject: stainless steel fascias

A while back someone mentioned there was a delorean with stainless 
steel fascias...but nobody every posted a pic.  Were these produced, 
or was this a "one time thing".  Are there any more on storage?  How 
doyou install them?  Are there any for sale?  how much? 

Erik




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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 06:26:36 -0000
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com
Subject: Re: need to adjust mixture levels?

I am in total agreement with Mike Griese on this one. Before you 
attempt to start the engine again you must find out what is causing 
the high fuel pressure. Untill this has been discovered, do not make 
any attempt to adjust either the air/fuel mixture, or the Primary 
Pressure Regulator. Black smoke is an indication of an incomple burn 
inside of the cylinders. The gasoline you smell is eveidence of a way-
too-rich fuel mixture. This is a fire hazard for both you and the 
car. If run this way long enough the catalytic converter and the 
muffler will glow red. This is not a good situation to a volatile gas 
vapors in. Plus if run long enough you can damage the engine by 
washing the cylinders out. When this happens, gasoline will wash the 
protective oil coating off the cylinder walls allowing the pistons to 
score the sleeves. Unless something else is discovered, this should 
for the most part be a relativly easy repair. Do not rush the car, 
and take things one step at a time. If you don't, she will not 
respond very well to you.

-Robert
vin 6585



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> still having troubles starting.  my dad and i would like to get the 
car out 
> of the garage and into the driveway.  i tried starting it today and 
my dad 
> said there is black smoke coming out of the pipes and my garage is 
starting 
> to reek of way too rich exhaust.  we would like to adjust the 
mixture.  it is 
> the allen screw at the base of the fuel distributer, correct?
> 
> which way is lean, and which way to rich?  is it very sensitive? i 
do not 
> want to start adusting stuff without knowing how much i am doing it!
> 
> i would like to do this tomorrow morning. therefore, if you have 
info on 
> this, please email me privately so i do not need to wait for the 
list to get 
> sent out.
> 
> thanks!
> Andy
> 
> Soma576_at_dml_a...
> 1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
> Fargo, ND 58102
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 11:18:44 -0000
From: daren57_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk
Subject: pics

ive updated my site

http://www.thegallerias.com

do you like the format???

tell me

admin_at_dml_thegallerias.com

cheers 

daren...




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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 15:28:23 -0000
From: "Ben" <tahoe98_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: VIN 10115 FOR SALE in the Atlanta Area

Yes, it's true...she's for sale.  I am asking $16,000, less a $500 
parts credit.  

The car is in immaculate condition.  1982 model (built in Nov 1981).  
Only 36,500 miles (all original).  The rear tires have been replaced 
with Michelin Pilot XGTs, front are in good condition.  All stock 
componants.  The car does have upgraded door lock solenoids, 
LockZilla, and the LockZilla keyless entry (works great).  The car 
runs very well.  I have been using it as a daily driver (I'm only 2.5 
mi from work, so that equals only about 125 mi/month.  The interior 
is in great condition, and has no sun damage (car is garaged).  Car 
also comes with the custom fit exterior sun shade for the 
windshield.  I have really tried to take care of the car.  I need to 
sell it b/c my wife and I have a little one on the way, and my travel 
schedule is rigerous.  

The car also comes with the reprinted DMC workshop, service bullitin, 
and parts manuals, as well as some misc parts, and other goodies.  A 
must see.  One last thing, the car has the Kenwood in-dash cassette 
player (which is CD changer ready).  No mods to the dash panel.  I 
will try to get some pics up to the files folder later on.  

If you are interested (serious inquiries only, please), please 
contact me privately (information is enclosed below).  

Best Regards,
Ben Boatright
VIN 10115
tahoe98_at_dml_yahoo.com
Cell:  678-524-5068
Located just north of Atlanta, GA




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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 12:25:02 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: updates to my car troubles!

Hello All,

today my dad and i checked for blockage in the fuel lines.  we did as a 
couple of list guys suggested - we took my return fuel line and put it in a 2 
liter container and jumped the RPM relay - in one minute it was right on, 
pretty much, 2 liters of gasoline in the container.  which then rules out the 
possibility of blockage in the lines, correct? this would imply that the 
gasoline is circulating freely without restriction from the fuel pump all the 
way back to the fuel tank.

to recap:
1. very difficult starting - engine is flooding immediately.  black smoke 
from exhaust pipes indicating way too much fuel at the injectors.  
2.  very high fuel pressure - over 100 PSI, closer to 130 i would say.  the 
pressure was measured from the bolt which holds the hose that goes from the 
fuel distributor to the cold start valve.  the reading was taken at this 
bolt.  
3.  high fuel pressure to does not appear to be a result of blockage, due to 
the results of the above test.
4.  this appeared OVERNIGHT - it is very difficult to believe that i need 
shims in my primary pressure regulator or something that adjusts pressure due 
to cumulative wear and tear.  the answer seems like it must be something much 
more simple because the car ran PERFECTLY the night before and every time 
before that, and then the next morning i came out and the car wouldn't start.
5.  had a broken fuel line near the accumulator.  was possibly a little leaky 
beforehand, and then the high pressure caused the hose to burst.  we assume 
this was return line from the accumultor and was a result of the problem and 
not the cause.  

therefore, we can conclude that the high pressure is a result of either a 
failed primary pressure regulator or a failed control pressure regulator.  
however, this is confusing.  the control pressure regulator cannot raise fuel 
pressure beyond what the primary pressure regulator presets it to.  for 
instance, if the primary pressure regulator only allows up to 80 PSI of fuel 
pressure, then the control pressure regulator cannot make the fuel pressure 
to be 100 PSI - it can only lower it, correct?  if so, that would imply that 
the primary pressure regulator is at fault.  but there are no movable parts 
and cannot be adjusted, correct?  is it possible that this valve simply broke 
and now it is failing to restrict my fuel pressure at all?  could this have 
happened 'overnight'?  

if so, how can test the primary pressure regulator for this type of failure?  
i would like someone to explain to me how to actually get to it in the fuel 
distributor and what i should look for if it is at fault.

additionally, is there anything else i should be checking in my fuel system?  
i think we've got it narrowed down pretty well but i'm not expert so ANY 
thoughts or help is greatly appreciated.

thanks as always,
Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 18:55:01 -0000
From: paulheymeson_at_dml_thefreeinternet.co.uk
Subject: Cooling Fans

Hello Group Members,

The problem I have with the cooling fans is they don't come on at all.
I have the fused jumper wires in the first 2 relay slots.
I can't make it out really as when I put a test meter on the fan temp 
sensor on the rad pipe in the engine bay the fans came on.
So I thought faulty sensor,just put a new one on and still don't work.

Help please it's making me go mad!!!!

Many Thanks.

Paul UK,Vin 741




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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 13:14:10 -0800
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel System Explained.

> Primary Pressure Regulator.
> This item is located inside of the Fuel Distributor. It's job is to
> determine what the pressure of the fuel system will be when the
> system runs under normal conditions. Has the ability to increase or
> decrease pressure by determining how much fuel is allowed to return
> to the gas tank. Set by the factory and/or mechanic. Contains no
> movable parts, and is probably only adjusted when a new distributor
> is installed.

This consists of a needle valve, o-rings, shims and springs. The primary
pressure can be changed by adding or removing shims. In the case of Andy's
fuel pressure problem I suppose it's possible that this valve is sticking
but unless his mechanic played with adding or removing shims this really
couldn't change. After relieving the fuel pressure you can carefully remove
this valve but BE SURE you see how the shims and springs are stacked up so
you change NOTHING or LOSE anything when re-installing. I don't think this
regulator valve has a history of malfunctioning with any frequency though.
Any shop with a history of working on early 80's Volkswagens, Volvos, Saabs,
Porsches, Ferraris and so on should have no problem trouble shooting the
K-jetronic fuel system. The system is made up of various Bosch shelf items
tailored to specific engine configurations. Essentially they're all alike in
the way they work and many parts are interchangeable. I've found the various
DeLorean shops have very competitive prices compared to the Bosch parts
suppliers and you save a great deal of leg work by simply ordering from
those DeLorean shops. The Amoco Certicare Andy used probably wouldn't  have
been my choice to work on the fuel system.

Bruce Benson





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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 14:28:03 EST
From: ROBLAMROCK_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: EUROFEST 2001

DeLorean owners from the following states have now signed up for Eurofest 
2001;
CA, FL, IL, MD, MN, NH, NJ, OH, PA, TX, WIS.
Please remember that the hotel deadline is April 18, and postal registration 
deadline for the event is April 27.
The test track at the factory has now been refurbished, the helicopter is 
booked, the cars are coming from all over Europe, and countdown to the party 
has begun.  See you in Belfast!
Best wishes,
Robert Lamrock
Organiser Eurofest 2001  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 16:10:31 -0600
From: "sk1pper" <sk1pper_at_dml_intersurf.com>
Subject: Re: radio wiring

are you referring to installing an aftermarket radio?
----- Original Message -----
From: <mrvideosawyer_at_dml_netscape.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 11:06 PM
Subject: [DML] radio wiring


> Group,
> Well got the mode switch out and repaired.  Now instead of just putting
that bad boy back together a new radio seemed in order.  The problem is most
radios come with more wires than the craig unit. Has anyone replaced their
radio and what was the wiring proceedure?
>



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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 14:10:44 -0800
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>
Subject: Hello list

Two months ago was my D-day 1.  I'm a pretty fair hand at stumbling
around a computer (actually I run a backyard computer business) and I've
done a lot of mechanicals.  Whatever it is, I've done it, from inside
the speedometer to inside the differential, I've been there.  Nothing
I've met is like the D.

Here's what I'm getting at, I would very much like to have known that I
shouldn't have lifted up one corner of the car with a floor jack before
I did it.  I also wish I had known that those screws in the tail light
assemblies were not Philips before I messed up the heads a little..

I'm lobbying for helping the next guys, a section called "Start up
facts" or "First facts" or something along those lines.  FAQ doesn't get
it, that only told me what grade of gasoline to use.

Here's the question, do you agree that it's a good idea?  Will you
contribute?  If you think it's a good idea and If you'll kick in data,
I'll do the grunt work.

This is strictly for startup, the real problems will continue to be
addressed by the list.

Let me know, aye or nay, I'm not going to push it, I've got mine, but I
don't want to be one of those who says save the trees, once his own
house is built.

Les




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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 22:32:41 -0000
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: radio wiring

Jim, I have posted the pictures of the pin out for the radio wiring 
color code and the work shop manual marked up on the web site under 
wiring for everyone.
John Hervey
specialtauto.com




-- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., mrvideosawyer_at_dml_n... wrote:
> Group,
> Well got the mode switch out and repaired.  Now instead of just 
putting that bad boy back together a new radio seemed in order.  The 
problem is most radios come with more wires than the craig unit. Has 
anyone replaced their radio and what was the wiring proceedure?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Jim 
> 4149 "ELMO"
> __________________________________________________________________
> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at 
http://webmail.netscape.com/




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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 17:50:52 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Cooling Fans

Paul,  You know the fans are good. If so, make sure all the connectors are 
making good contact. Then short out the otterstat/temp switch in the lower 
left hand water pipe with something. If that doesn't turn them on then check 
the voltage going to them thru the circuit breaker. The brown wire going into 
fan relay should read 12 volts. It's hot at all times. coming out of that and 
going to the circuit breaker is the brown/orange. Then it goes to the Fan 
fail circuit. It any of those components are original you may want to 
consider an upgrade. Look for any broken wires or ungrounded fans.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com

 



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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 17:02:59 -0600
From: "Brian McCool" <bjmccool_at_dml_home.com>
Subject: DMC-2

I was just going through my favorite links and updating them,
when I came across Kevin Rawlings "Delorean Canada" site.
He has a picture of the million dollar vehicle that JZD is planning.
This is the first time that I have come across an actual picture of one of
the 2
vehicles that JZD is planning. The credits say Tamir took the picture at a
convention
(the Cleveland meet last year???). Maybe Tamir, Kevin, or Ken Koncelik can
shed some light on
this.

http://www.geocities.com/deloreancanada/newdel.html




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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 23:19:00 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: Cooling Fans

The cooling fan electrical circuit is reletively simple. Refer to 
M:18:10 in the workshop manual. Some of the more common problems are:
Burnt jumper or connections in the relay block
Blown #5 fuse (test it even if it looks good)
Bad grounds for fan motors
Bad otterstat (temp switch)
Bad fan motors
Use a test light or meter to a GOOD ground and see where you have 
power. Jump the otterstat switch with a paper clip. (Keep one in the 
car at all times for emergency use.)
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., paulheymeson_at_dml_t... wrote:
> Hello Group Members,
> 
> The problem I have with the cooling fans is they don't come on at 
all.
> I have the fused jumper wires in the first 2 relay slots.
> I can't make it out really as when I put a test meter on the fan 
temp 
> sensor on the rad pipe in the engine bay the fans came on.
> So I thought faulty sensor,just put a new one on and still don't 
work.
> 
> Help please it's making me go mad!!!!
> 
> Many Thanks.
> 
> Paul UK,Vin 741




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Message: 16
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 23:41:07 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: updates to my car troubles!

I find it hard to believe your pressure is that high. Unless there is 
blockage of the return line from the primary pressure regulater or the 
regulater itself is stuck there is no reason for it. Maybe your gauge 
is out of calibration. The proper place to check fuel pressure is the 
bolt on the top center of the fuel distributer in line to the control 
pressure regulater on the valve cover. Max pressure is to be no more 
that 5.5 bar or 14.5 x 5.5 or about 80 psi. With such high pressures 
at start it is all going to the cold start valve. Assume the primary 
regulater is stuck. Try to remove it and clean it making sure 
everything is clean and moves easily. It is adjustable and should be 
set between 5.1 - 5.3 bar. This could have happened overnight by just 
a piece of dirt lodging in the regulater causing it to stick. The 
primary contol pressure regulater is on the side of the fuel mixture 
unit. The control pressure regulater is on the valve cover. The 
primary control pressure regulater is the one that contols system 
pressure and is the one that is either stuck or has the bolcked 
return line.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> today my dad and i checked for blockage in the fuel lines.  we did 
as a 
> couple of list guys suggested - we took my return fuel line and put 
it in a 2 
> liter container and jumped the RPM relay - in one minute it was 
right on, 
> pretty much, 2 liters of gasoline in the container.  which then 
rules out the 
> possibility of blockage in the lines, correct? this would imply that 
the 
> gasoline is circulating freely without restriction from the fuel 
pump all the 
> way back to the fuel tank.
> 



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Message: 17
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 15:48:12 -0800
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>
Subject: Re: Hello list

Good, we can start with you, this is not the complete rendering  but
some of the  reasons given were anywhere from chipping the epoxy and
bending the frame to if lifting one corner of the front end, breaking
the windshield, hence the idea of a 24" 2x4 or 2x6 placed between the
tie down hooks and lifting the entire front or rear end is the way to
go.  Again, wouldn't you have liked to have known this and more at the
start?

Les

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

>    Part 1.1    Type: Plain Text (text/plain)
>            Encoding: 7bit




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Message: 18
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 16:34:26 -0800
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>
Subject: Radio wiring

Craig comes with a lot of wires, speakers front and rear, left and
right, clock lead, antenna lead and antenna motor lead, what else is
there?  If you're installing a unit with a separate amplifier you could
have a couple of extra power leads but what on just a radio?  Years ago
the dial light was tied in with the dash lights but that was a long time
ago.

Les




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Message: 19
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 19:42:21 EST
From: sand131_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Hello list

I have always jacked my car from the 4 jacking pads with a 2 ton padded floor 
jack and have had no problems. Maybe I was just lucky?
Ralph


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 20
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 00:52:36 -0000
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com
Subject: DeLorean Sightings

Just saw an episode of Populuar Hot Rodding Magazine on TNN. They were 
at some sort of car show, and the opening shot was of a DeLorean with 
the doors up.

Also about a week and a half ago, there was an eposide of "On the 
Record with Bob Costas" on HBO. The guest was Kareen Abdul Jabar. They 
did a few shots of JZD and the prototype DMC-12. Have no idea as to 
why, but there was a few shots of some football games in between. 
Don't know if it was a story about the Chargers, or JZD's former 
father in law, Tom Harmon.

Worse yet, I have no idea what was said. It's great having cable TV at 
work, but half the time I can't hear what's on!

-Robert
vin 6585




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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:12:42 -0500
From: "Tom Niemczewski" <tomcio_at_dml_jamesik.com>
Subject: Beware of Jag Shop - PLEASE READ

Please read the following post. It might save you a lot trouble and money!

I want to warn everybody about the Jag Shop in Pompano Beach, Florida.
My DeLorean needed some repairs that were beyond of what I can do myself. I
wanted to take it to DMC Joe, but since Jag Shop was closer I made a BIG
mistake and I let David Wynne lay his hands on my car. He did what he was
asked for and I can't complain here - the work was done (almost) on time and
was done (almost) properly. The problem is that they did more that they were
suppose to do.
While I was there I spoke to David. I told him about all the work I did
myself, I told him how much I spent to restore the car and I told him about
what parts I replaced. He seemed like a nice guy. Everything was fine until
I got the car home and got it back on the road. I didn't drive the car home,
it was brought in on a flatbed truck. Since the car was out of gas (I
drained all the gas before the car was shipped to the Jag Shop) I got a gas
can and I put some 4 gallons in the car so I could make it to the gas
station. When I filled the car all the way up at the gas station I noticed I
had a SERIOUS leak from the tank. I had the car towed home and this is when
I realised what the Jag Shop did.
I took the fuel pump access cover off and noticed that the support boot was
just laying there and the big clamp that holds it in place was missing. I
drained all the gas and pulled evething out from the tank. It turns out that
while at the Jag Shop they replaced EVERY part of the fuel system with some
old used parts... and they didn't even care to put everything back
together... they just threw all the parts in the tank. The parts they took
amount to over $500. I guess that when I told David that all those parts
were new, he thought that my car was a good source of new parts. And since I
told him that I will be going to Europe soon he knew that he could get away
with stealing parts. I send a letter to David expaining what happed and few
days later I got a phone call from them. Someone claiming to be a manager
told me.... hmmm.... let's just say that this was not the kind of reaction I
was expecting and he was VERY RUDE. He said that he will sue me for $50.000
and that he will "slam-bang me" and that I will loose the car - the guy had
a very distinct british accent. There were few names that he called me as
well.
All in all I lost a lot of money because of them. I had to replace all those
parts again. Over $500 in parts, plus labor, plus towing, plus my car was
not drivable again for over two weeks. I wanted to sue the Jag Shop, but I
can't because I'm leaving for Europe soon. I was told that it will take
around 3 - 4 months. I just don't have that much time!
So, they got away with stealing over $500 worth of parts for my car
You might ask how do I know that it was them who stole the parts. I have a
very simple answer: I did all the repairs on my D, I installed all those
parts myself and nobody had even touched the car except for me. I have all
the receipts to prove that I bought those parts, I have witnesses that were
here when I installed those parts. I'm 100% sure that Jag Shop stole my
parts because nobody else had access to the car.

Also they sent me a letter saing that if I tell anyone about what happend
they will sue me and I will loose the car!

Dear fellow DeLorean owners! Please stay away from the Jag Shop in Pompano
Beach Florida!!!!!

I'm sorry about the tone and lenght of this post, but I felt that people
should know about dishonest repair shops. They were very nice to me until
they got the money. After they got the money.... well.... I would NEVER
expect anything like that.

Take care everyone,
Tom Niemczewski
vin 6298 (for sale)
tomcio_at_dml_jamesik.com

PS. If you have any questions about my dealings with the worst DeLorean
repair shop (naming The Jag Shop) feel free to email me at
tomcio'AT'jamesik.com



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