From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 477
Date: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 6:17 PM

Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: A letter of thanks and a little more
From: "Tom Niemczewski" <tomcio_at_dml_jamesik.com>

2. DONT DISCONNECT THE BATTERY!
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>

3. Re: rubbing noise, coolant leak
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

4. NEW MANUAL! Now is the time for all good owners...
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

5. Removing frame from car...
From: shirazcupala_at_dml_home.com

6. Re:Was A letter of thanks and a little more Now Alt testing
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

7. "New Owner Documentation"
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

8. Re: EUROFEST 2001 Airfare Reductions from US
From: rdh_at_dml_hozt.com

9. Good repair facility in Alabama
From: sean_dmc1_at_dml_hotmail.com

10. RE: PLANING FOR A DELOREAN
From: "Brian McCool" <bjmccool_at_dml_home.com>

11. Re: PLANING FOR A DELOREAN
From: Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>

12. Re: "New Owner Documentation"
From: jus4sho_at_dml_aol.com

13. Re: Re: A letter of thanks and a little more
From: sand131_at_dml_aol.com

14. Re: PLANING FOR A DELOREAN
From: bduncan_at_dml_visualmining.com

15. Good morning list!
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>

16. Apple Ad?
From: Watkins Family <watbmv_at_dml_megalink.net>

17. RE: "New Owner Documentation"
From: "Wright, Ryan (LW)" <Ryan.Wright_at_dml_lambweston.com>

18. frequency valve again
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>

19. Re: Removing frame from car...
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com

20. Clock Console Wiring Help
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>

21. Re: Removing frame from car...
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com

22. cheap delorean for sale in Michigan
From: delorean502_at_dml_excite.com

23. Re: Radio wiring - Need more help!
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>

24. Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!
From: Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>

25. Re: Radio wiring - Need more help!
From: Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:06:19 -0500
From: "Tom Niemczewski" <tomcio_at_dml_jamesik.com>
Subject: Re: A letter of thanks and a little more

DON'T DO THAT!!!!! THAT IS WRONG!!!!!
Do not remove the battery leads with engine running. You can do a lot of
damage. A battery serves two purposes: 1) as a voltage regulator and 2) a
load for the alternator. Without the battery the alternator (regulator
inside it to be exact) will sense that there is no voltage from the battery,
meaning the battery is dead or there is a BIG load on the system. So it will
pump ALL it can from the alternator with nowhere to go (because there is no
load - battery). Also without the battery the regulator cannot adjust the
votage correctly. Because of that you can get 68 volts in the system... even
more. A healthy alternator is actually able to put about 80 volts out!!
Imagine what that will do to all the electronics in your car!! Radio, lambda
ECU, idle speed ECU and if your car happens to be automatic you'll have to
replace the transmission governor.
So, don't remove the battery leads with the engine running.
And people please don't tell others that this is a way to test your
alternator!!!

To whoever you are - sk1pper. Please make sure that you have acurate and
safe info before you post to the list.

BTW, why do we have moderators on this list? Guys, I'm sure you've heard all
the coments about this way of 'testing' a car. Please, please, please don't
pass posts like this to the list. Somebody might do a lot of damage to the
car destroying every electronics circuit in the car and in extreme
situations it can actually cause fire. Since all that power from the
alternator has nowhere to go it will dissipate as heat in wires and that can
lead to FIRE!!!


Let's hope we don't see posts like that anymore
Tom Niemczewski
vin 6298 (for sale)
tomcio_at_dml_jamesik.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "sk1pper" <sk1pper_at_dml_intersurf.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: [DML] A letter of thanks and a little more


>     A sure way of testing the alternator is to start the car then remove
one of the battery leads (preferbally the positive), then test the pos and
neg for 12-17vDC. This will tell you if the alternator is producing
electricity. I had to change my alternator and all was ok partly due to the
old motorolla only producing 68vDC and the old rusted nuts causing
resistance shorting out the charge. If you need to change the alternator, I
have a list of part numbers that will get you a straight replacement from
your local parts store, OR if you are like me, more power is always the way
to go. I will have a new web page up in about 2-3 days _at_dml_ www.sk1pper.com
that has pic of mine and how i put a 140a alternator on.
>
>     Let me know if you need any more info or if this even helps ...
>
>
>     sk1pper landry
>
> >
> > Secondly.... after starting the car and backing it out
> > for a nice 200 mile drive (now that i can see how much
> > gas i have), i happened to glance over at my battery
> > meter.. it was almost to 0.... like the alternator
> > wasnt working..... it was fine before... i am
> > wondering if maybe i screwed something up putting the
> > tankzilla in????  When the needle goes down to the
> > bottom like that, does it mean the battery, or, worse,
> > i need to get an alternator????  I am going to
> > disconnect the tanzilla tommorow and see if that
> > helps.. if it does maybe its grounding somewhere, if
> > not... i guess i'll buy the battery and if that doesnt
> > work, head for the alternator
>
>
>
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free _at_dml_yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 04:03:14 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: DONT DISCONNECT THE BATTERY!

NO!  NEVER DISCONNECT THE BATTERY WITH THE CAR RUNNING TO TEST THE 
ALTERNATOR!  That battery acts as a real big voltage regulator.  
Without it connected, the alternator can produce power spikes that can 
and WILL blow out electronic equipment.  (Just like how jump-starting 
can shorten the life of the auto trans computer govenor).  This 
process may have been alright on real old cars that contained no 
electronics, but any modern car (especially the D) contains very 
fragile electronics that will be damaged if you conduct this 
procedure.  This has been brought up before, Les, perhaps this is 
somthing for your newbie startup guide.

Jim Reeve
MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club
DMC-6960


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "sk1pper" <sk1pper_at_dml_i...> wrote:
>     A sure way of testing the alternator is to start the car then 
remove one of the battery leads (preferbally the positive), then test 
the pos and neg for 12-17vDC.




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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:22:29 EST
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: rubbing noise, coolant leak

In a message dated 3/26/01 9:10:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
delorean_at_dml_abato.net writes:

<< I could hear a rubbing
 sound (like a fan blade scraping something, or the a tire rubbing on the
 body)  It came from the front right side of the car (my first thought was
 the tire) but I just drove again, and had the same thing, but noticed I had
 the heater on with the blower set to "1".  If I turned it off while turning
 or set it higher, the rubbing sound went away.  Is the blower fan for the
 heat located in the front right side of the car? >>

You might have sucked a dried leaf into your heater fan fresh air intake.  I 
know... it's hard to believe a little leaf could make so much noise.  My D 
isn't garaged, and I only cover it when I expect snow.  So I had this happen 
myself- not in the fall actually, but in the winter.  If I hadn't had it 
happen before, I would never have believed that's what is was.  If that is 
your problem, varying the fan motor will definitely change the sound, and it 
always will be absent with the fan off. It would sound like the noise comes 
from under the dash on the passenger side. The good news... if that's your 
problem, it will go away on its own as the leaf chips away.  

Regarding the coolant, D's are prone to get air bubbles in them, which is why 
there's a bleeder screw on the top left of the thermostat housing, right on 
top of the water pump.  Somewhere in the DML archives there is a procedure 
spelled out for bleeding the system.  I put a bleeder line on mine.  It 
provides a constant bleed capability. Got mine from Arnie Brandon, but DMC 
Joe has them too, and he'd be easier to reach.  They're probably on his 
website too.  Some people say they don't know if it really does that much, 
but it was the first thing I put on my D, and I've never had any problems.  
And it's not expensive either. It's a "tinkerer job" not a major mechanic 
job. 

Wayne A. Ernst
The New DeLorean Manuals Project
vin 11174



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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:22:31 EST
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: NEW MANUAL! Now is the time for all good owners...

In a message dated 3/24/01 6:14:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net writes:

<< Here's what I'm getting at, I would very much like to have known that I
 shouldn't have lifted up one corner of the car with a floor jack before
 I did it.  I also wish I had known that those screws in the tail light
 assemblies were not Philips before I messed up the heads a little.. >>

I appreciate Les' efforts... go for it!  :)  I've been working behind the 
scenes along that same line, and more.  As some of you are aware, I've been 
working on revising and uprading the entire DMC manual series.  I've had a 
chance to bounce various ideas off of a few of you, either by e-mail or in 
person at Ken's show last spring.  It's not my day job, but I try to work on 
it a little each day. 

Not being an original owner, a certified mechanic (or an egomaniac), I know 
that I will need input from many D people with more knowledge and experience 
than I have. I've had a lot of homework to do before I felt ready to roll out 
the personal input part of the project.  Including scouring the planet for 
original DMC manuals with good clean artwork suitable for reproduction.  
(Seems more practical to own than borrow. You'd be surprised at what I've 
been able to reel in.  Even a service manual from the factory in Belfast.)   
As you know, the clarity of  some of the illustrations in the widely 
circulated copies of copies of copies is really pretty poor.

I've also secured the support of the DML Moderators and all the major D 
vendors but one.  Rob, Joe, Stephen and Don all agree that the existing 
manuals contain inaccuracies and are a bit lacking in certain areas.  New 
manuals could be very useful, if not to them, then at least to the "rank and 
file" owner.  All four have agreed to look over materials I send them for 
additions and corrections as they have time. (That sounds pretty tepid... 
actually there's a bit more enthusiasm for the project than I make it sound 
here!)  I haven't asked them to write new material per se.  If they had time 
to do that, I wouldn't need to be doing this!  I had some reservations about 
contacting Ed.  Not  because of what I read on the DML but from my own 
experience with him, and his extreme and irrational hostility toward our 
group.  Nevertheless, he is an established D vendor whom many owners rely on 
and endorse, and he's hung in there with the DeLorean while many other 
DeLorean suppliers and servicers have closed down their D operations. I have 
to respect that.  So I asked him, and he declined.  Ed says I "have too much 
time on my hands" and he's too busy to help.  He compares my project to 
rewriting the Bible!  Actually, one of the later original DMC bulletins I 
have remarks that the parts manuals were never fully revised.  I guess Ed 
never read that one.  :)  That quote coming from Leif Montin, the DMC 
National Parts Director. (I guess that makes him the "Moses" of parts!)  
Well, I felt I should be openminded and ask Ed, so I did.  The icing on the 
cake: Leif himself is supportive and willing to help.   

At last I'm ready to move forward with phase two.  Much as I feel the great 
need for a "Newbie Corner," as Les suggests, and of course a new service 
manual, I'll be starting with the Parts Identification & Assembly Manual, 
since that must be foundational as a reference for the other manuals, and it 
will be a lot easier to manage as a startup. An accurate, user friendly P & A 
Manual with additional illustrations, close ups, tutorial material, full 
parts supercessions, recall parts and Parts Bulletins combined.  I've even 
got a surprising amount of out of print original materials and illustrations, 
from the preliminary parts manual featuring '81 features, for instance, that 
didn't make it into the later, widely copied '82 manual. The new manual would 
not just save time when you call up your favorite supplier to order a part.  
It would actually help owners better understand their cars and its systems in 
a way it can't do now.  I'm pretty excited about it!  There's quite a lot of 
stuff that will be added.  You're going to be surprised what all can be done 
with a lowly parts manual!

Before I tell you what I need the assistance of my fellow DML'ers with,  here 
are my observations and presumptions: 
* the parts and service manuals were never designed for the owner, but rather 
for DeLorean trained mechanics.  Some additional explanatory material would 
be a great benefit, especially to new owners
*had the company survived, a revised parts manual would have included and 
superceded all the applicable parts bulletins... but that never had time to 
happen... until now
* Originality and Concours standards were not in view in the parts manual, 
rather the lastest current data.  I can include some '81 illustrations that 
had been essentially lost.
* some owners, especially of early D's, have parts that don't look original, 
but really are
* some illustrations lack useful details (the illustration of the speedo 
drive doesn't show the speedo drive hub "dustcover," for instance, it's on 
the page with the suspension.)
* some illustrations need larger illustrations, like the fuel baffle assembly
* some parts have indistinct names, like the above mentioned "dustcover," 
which is more usefully described as a speedo drive hub in the service manual.
* nomenclature in the manual is often unclear or even conflicting.
* as we get further and further from the technology of the DMC-12, an 
accurate comprehensive parts manual with some tutorial information would be 
very useful in helping interested owners/ hobbyists learn to understand the 
workings of their cars, and determining if they have the correct parts, not 
just "make-it-fit" substitutes put on by prior mechanics in a pinch... or in 
ignorance.

Can we fix all that?  Address all these issues? Oh, yeah!

What do I need from you, my fellow owners?  Well, I want your input.  If you 
have familiarity with the guts of your D, and would like to join the D 
experts in looking over the first drafts of the illustrations, page by page 
to offer your comments, please contact me privately. The eventual manual will 
come out this fall, in print form, like a nice Chilton manual.  A CD format 
has been suggested, but I can still easily access the info in the twenty year 
old manuals... my twenty year old floppies are useless.  It will be carefully 
edited and printed, and though I can't pay anything for submissions, I will 
include a list of contributors, if you'd like your name included, in the 
acknowledgements. (Can't footnote everything... I'd go crazy!)  It will be 
copyrighted, because though I don't expect to give up my day job, I need to 
recoup printing costs. Hopefully the main D suppliers will carry it.  I'd 
rather do it thru them than just peddle them over the internet.  
Big job.  Can you help me make it a reality?  Drop me a line!
Thanks in advance. 

-Wayne A. Ernst
vin 11174
The New DeLorean Manuals Project





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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 04:26:53 -0000
From: shirazcupala_at_dml_home.com
Subject: Removing frame from car...

In a recent post, Nick reference his site where there are pitures of 
his car with the frame separated from the body. See the link below 
for the pictures.  He says it took about 5 hours to do the 
separation.  It looks like both pieces are in tact except being 
separated. I know this can't be entirely true because of certain 
hoses and lines.  However, these pictures make me wonder if it is 
relatively easy to swap frames in case of frame damage.  I originally 
thought that you'd have to take the whole car apart.

Does anyone have any knowledge of how much time/effort would be 
involved in just swapping the DeLorean frame?

thanks,
shiraz

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., njp548_at_dml_a... wrote:
Nick 1852  Http://members.aol.com/njp548




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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 04:58:26 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re:Was A letter of thanks and a little more Now Alt testing

What you really mean is a sure way to blow the alternater and all of 
the sensitive electrical components! I know of NO procedure that 
advocates disconnecting the alternater while the motor is running! Put 
a voltmeter on the battery, read the voltage, start the motor and read 
again after about 1 minute. It should read at least .5 volts higher. A 
better test is to use an alternater tester which measures ripple so as 
to determine if any diodes are shot and full load output. 
Disconnecting the alternater while the motor is running will send a 
surge of over 100 volts through the system. If it doesn't cause 
outright damage immediatly you will see things happen later like bulbs 
blowing and computers dying. (Take note if automatic!)
 * HINT*  A quick and dirty way to see if the alternater is charging 
is to take something magnetic (like a pocket knife) and hold it close 
the the bearing on the end of the rotor away from the pulley. You will 
feel a strong magnetic attraction if the alternater is charging the 
battery. This is not a quantitative test, just a go-no go way to see 
if the alternater is working at all. You could also use a test light. 
It should be a little brighter when the motor is running then when it 
is off. There is no substitute for good test equipment and the 
knowledge to use it.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "sk1pper" <sk1pper_at_dml_i...> wrote:
>     A sure way of testing the alternator is to start the car then 
remove one of the battery leads (preferbally the positive), then test 
the pos and neg for 12-17vDC. This will tell you if the alternator is 
producing electricity. I had to change my alternator and all was ok 
partly due to the old motorolla only producing 68vDC and the old 
rusted nuts causing resistance shorting out the charge. If you need to 
change the alternator, I have a list of part numbers that will get you 
a straight replacement from your local parts store, OR if you are like 
me, more power is always the way to go. I will have a new web page up 
in about 2-3 days _at_dml_ www.sk1pper.com that has pic of mine and how i put 
a 140a alternator on.
> 
>     Let me know if you need any more info or if this even helps ...
> 
> 
>     sk1pper landry
>     
> > 
> 




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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 01:05:14 EST
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: "New Owner Documentation"


    DML,

        There are many talented members of this group. I have had the 
pleasure to met some of the members. Most of you have a tremendous amount of 
energy and devotion to the car. Anyone who is related to the DeLorean, out of 
ownership or curiosity, is very appreciative and thankful of the resources 
and dedication that they have contributed.
I'm sure we can all say that we have learned a lot. 

    The members here are always innovative in their quest to keep DeLorean 
car and DeLorean information circulating. I want to respond to your proposal 
to build a "you've got a problem car, So you purchased a problematic DMC, new 
comer DMC problems" web page.

    When a group of us got together recently to host a local get together, 
the owner of a car collection commented on how he wanted to see the DeLorean 
cars but thinks that they are not much of a car. Evidently he did some 
research on the Internet and found this list.  He went on and on about the 
problems.  He laughed at us, when we said the cars were reliable and fun to 
own.

    Every problem, and every lambaste is in the archive.
 
    The DeLorean is such a media magnet and probably one of the most famous 
cars in the world.  What if a well meaning journalist wanted to write a story 
on the car and found the so called "Now you bought a DeLorean...now 
what?/Problem page(s)" web site that you want?
 After reading what new owners have to go through, based on the information 
that you propose, it would be disadvantageous and injurious to those of us 
who own a reliable DeLorean. Not every DeLorean out there is problem prone 
and unreliable. As I've said before there are some cars driven everyday 
without incident, and several with over 100,000 miles.
 
    With your good intentions, in a backhanded way, by posting a web site 
devoted to DeLorean problems you are putting the car down.

     The old rule of media is "You can control advertising, but you can't 
control public opinion."

    You mention that the Bricklin site has a section devoted to bring a car 
back to life after neglect. The Bricklin is another story. The only 
similarity is the doors, and it was light years behind the quality control of 
the DeLorean.  Although no car manufactured was without fault.

    Instead of a "Newcomer problem page" I propose an addition to the DMC 
website. In the FAQ section, create a subsection to update the information on 
production changes. These changes were made to respond to customer, parts 
suppliers and engineering suggestions.  These include the changes of 
parts/production techniques after certain VIN numbers on the assembly line. 
e.g. change of the door lock cylinders, clock, etc.
      Where the superseded part has been replaced by the various suppliers, 
include a message that the part has been updated by the DMC suppliers. e.g. 
Window regulators, locks, Zilla parts, door handle, clutch, etc., etc.

    Anyone interested in the car should be able to understand the 
information. 
 
    Out of spite, I know that someone out there, after reading this message, 
will produce a web site about DeLorean problems.

    If you decide to proceed with your web page, I hope that you are wise 
enough to include every testimonial you can gather on how reliable, etc., the 
DeLorean has been.  I've searched the archive for Joy, Love, and Happiness 
owning a DeLorean, and the results weren't good.

Sincerely,
Mike Pack



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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 06:50:08 -0000
From: rdh_at_dml_hozt.com
Subject: Re: EUROFEST 2001 Airfare Reductions from US

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., ROBLAMROCK_at_dml_a... wrote:
> DeLorean owners from the following states have now signed up for 
Eurofest 2001;
> CA, FL, IL, MD, MN, NH, NJ, OH, PA, TX, WIS.

>countdown to the party has begun.  See you in Belfast!


Airfares from the US to Ireland and London have dropped once again 
for fares through May 31 if they are booked by March 31. For instance 
LAX to Ireland was listed as $499 RT; New York to London $298. 

Frommers Headline on Monday read:

A Nice Little War: Spring Airfares to Europe Reduced 

Check it out at:

http://www.frommers.com/newsletters/03-26-01/article2.html

Complete Eurofest 2001 Details and On-line Registration at:

http://www.delorean-owners.org/events/eurofest2001.html

Travel Tips and Assistance at:

http://www.delorean-owners.org/events/ef2001travel.html

See you in Belfast.

Ray Haug, Internet Director
DeLorean Owners Association







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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 07:24:54 -0000
From: sean_dmc1_at_dml_hotmail.com
Subject: Good repair facility in Alabama



Group,

      I am sure few of you even live near the Alabama area, but in 
case someone out there is looking for a good DeLorean repair facility 
in Alabama, I know of two very good ones in Huntsville, AL. One is 
EuroTech. The shop is basically owned by one guy who does all the 
work himself. He is extremely knowledgeable and primarily works on 
BMW's. He also works on Volvos! I had a lot of work done there and he 
did it right...the whole way through. I ended up selling my car 
however. Oh well. Also, I hear that Specialty Automotive is also a 
very good place to get your DeLorean serviced. Any way, just my two 
cents!

Thanks,
Sean Spurlock




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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 06:51:15 -0600
From: "Brian McCool" <bjmccool_at_dml_home.com>
Subject: RE: PLANING FOR A DELOREAN

>>>most car radios will play CD-R discs.  CD-RW is a different story.  I do
not
know of any that do that.>>>

Hope this isn't to far off subject, but I thought it might be helpful info.
I just got a CD-burner for my computer and here is what I have learned,
CD-RW is only for data storage, so don't bother trying to write audio files
to it.
CD-R works on most cd players but it depends alot on the quality of CD-R
disc that you get. It also depends on what color disc you are using. There
are 3 different colors,
silver, gold, and blue. Try and get CD-R's that have a silver surface if you
are having trouble.
Also, I tried recording 12 songs on a CD-R and it played in my home stereo
but not my car stereo.
I then just recorded 10 songs on the next one and it played fine in both
after that. It may have something
to do with to many songs taking up the memory on the disc and your car
stereo not being able to read it.








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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:02:19 -0500
From: Marc A Levy <malevy_at_dml_dnrc.bell-labs.com>
Subject: Re: PLANING FOR A DELOREAN

I am not quite sure what a CD player has to do with buying a DeLorean, but....

Aiwa and Kenwood both make a car CD player that will play CD, CD-R, CD-RW, and
it will also decode MP3 files (you can burn a CD with 100+ MP3 files, and play
them in this unit).

I dont know model numbers off the top of my head, but I do remember the Aiwa was
less expensive than the Kenwood..  Crutchfield carries both units, so you may
want to check their web site for more information.  I have been considering the
Awia for my DeLorean, but my new house has been sucking up all of my money.


My tip on Cosmetics is if you dont like the way something looks, fix it.

Marc


azb888_at_dml_cs.com wrote:
> 
> Hey everybody,
> 
>     I may soon be getting a DeLorean! HOPEFULLY. I need some help.  First
> does anybody know of a car CD player that plays burned CD's (CD R's and
> RW's).  Next I would jus like to have some tips on like cosmetics for the
> outside of the car.  Some things like the DMC hubcaps from DMC in Houston or
> others.
> 
> I would really appreciate help with the CD player question.
> 
> THANKS \
> 
> Ali



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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:23:02 EST
From: jus4sho_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: "New Owner Documentation"

If there is concern about misuse of such a list of "weak-points" in the D, 
can the site access be controlled via a password, or some other sort of 
membership?  Virtually every model-specific car club out there distrubutes 
monthly news letters and in them, often feature "tech tips".  While these are 
not publicly distributed documents, they are also not considered to be 
bashing the weak points of their cars either.  I think not to produce such a 
comprehensive list due to a paranoid fear of media misuse would in itself do 
a hugh disservice to the Delorean community and the DML.

my $.03

Steve (VIN 2650, "Project Delorean")
        www.angelfire.com/md2/projectdelorean

P.S.
To Dave Stragand (ProjectVixen):  See that guy in the Fox Den was right!  YOU 
are single-handedly RESPONSIBLE for the DeLorean's apparent low resale value! 
  "They" will probably try to confiscate your web server next.   LOL  
(anyway) - Steve  : )



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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:01:04 EST
From: sand131_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: A letter of thanks and a little more

In a message dated 3/27/01 5:57:20 AM Central Standard Time, 
tomcio_at_dml_jamesik.com writes:


> BTW, why do we have moderators on this list? Guys, I'm sure you've heard all
> the coments about this way of 'testing' a car. Please, please, please don't
> 

Tom your info is correct up until you take our moderator to task for letting 
info go through. The list and you did a good quick job of correcting the miss 
information and that is as it should be. All our moderators donate there time 
and all are not mechanical experts. But all are hard working and dedicated 
people trying to do a good job. CUT THEM SOME SLACK
RALPH
VIN 1606


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:45:03 -0000
From: bduncan_at_dml_visualmining.com
Subject: Re: PLANING FOR A DELOREAN

The Aiwa CDC-MP3 plays CD-R's AND CD-RW's AND instead
of burning the CD to be read in a stereo, you can just burn
MP3 files to it and it will read them off!  Its about $300
but very neat.  When i get my car back from PJ Grady (going
on 4 months... :(  ) i want to put this in.

http://www.aiwa.com/Catalog00/Products2.asp?id=94

bruce

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., azb888_at_dml_c... wrote:
> 
> Hey everybody,
> 
>     I may soon be getting a DeLorean! HOPEFULLY. I need some help.  
First 
> does anybody know of a car CD player that plays burned CD's (CD R's 
and 
> RW's).  Next I would jus like to have some tips on like cosmetics 
for the 
> outside of the car.  Some things like the DMC hubcaps from DMC in 
Houston or 
> others.  
> 
> I would really appreciate help with the CD player question.
> 
> THANKS \
> 
> Ali




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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 07:49:52 -0800
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>
Subject: Good morning list!

I see we're up and active.  Back to my current project (which I can be
talked out of in a hot minute if someone has something better to
offer).  I respond Particularly re the posting concerning the damaging
of the reputation of the D's by helping owners figure out problems.

First, I really shouldn't have to say this but it seems I do.  Every car
has problems, even new ones are subject to recall, it's helpful to know
what the problems are before you find out the hard way, it's doubly
helpful to know the fix in advance.

I've been on the list exactly 2 months but I've been on earth far longer
than most of you (including Darryl T.) and though I'm not always right
my percentage is pretty good.

The proposed Newbie Corner or whatever it turns out to be is simply
meant to cover the questions you don't know the answer to when you jump
in, and some, obviously, even if you've been around awhile.

Proposed topics are the things I couldn't intuitively know plus the same
from others.  We, as a group, are in the business of exchanging thoughts
and ideas, in other words, helping each other by pooling our individual
experiences and wisdom.  If this is wrong then I need a better
explanation.

Topics I plan to cover, and this mainly a compilation of what has been
covered on the list, and in particular those that keep coming up, are
things like:

How to lift the car, how to treat the interior (what's leather, what
isn't), how to service the tail light assembly including the special
screw driver, how to remove the radio, how to remove the door panel, how
to service the window mechanism, basics of how the idle circuit works,
Main hot start, cold start and no start problems, basic upgrades like
the plastic to metal change in the radiator and coolant overflow, main
problems to expect with a car taken out of storage and whatever more
along those lines that comes up.

Subjects not to be covered are things like the lock solenoids and the
fans, they have simply been hammered to death, they are all over the
place and easy to find.  What I'm proposing is an easy to find, easy to
understand primer, all in one place.

I've had two very low class attacks, cheap shots if you will, privately
of course.  There are among us some of the very lowest, who's only joy
seems to be degrading others.  The moderators, bless 'em, catch most of
it.  I don't like bullies and I encourage free exchange of ideas, I want
to know what you have to say and how you did something, what I know for
sure is that you can learn from anybody, frequently from a source you
feel can't possibly have anything of value to impart...big mistake!

If I were a moderator, and trust me, I have enough to do, I don't need
that aggravation, there are a lot of postings that wouldn't happen.  As
soon as a pointless attack occurred except for the poster getting his
jollies, it would be gone.  I feel that a free exchange of ideas can't
possibly occur if whenever you post what you think to be helpful you
become a big fat target and get shot full of holes.

One further point, upon making correction to what you feel is an
incorrect posting, it's not really necessary to use hob nailed boots to
jump on the offender, how about a little kindness, a little tact, (do I
sound like Rodney King).

Take your shots.

Les




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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 12:09:15 -0500
From: Watkins Family <watbmv_at_dml_megalink.net>
Subject: Apple Ad?

Hi,

I check out Apple's web site and it doesn't seem to show the picture
that links to your site. Did you make this up?  Was this an attempt at
humor?   It looks like it's a take off on the Apple Ad......not a real
marketing plan as your post seems to suggests.  Can you elaborate?  Am I
missing the joke somewhere?

Thanks

Tom




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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:14:42 -0800
From: "Wright, Ryan (LW)" <Ryan.Wright_at_dml_lambweston.com>
Subject: RE: "New Owner Documentation"

Mike,

I'm not a Delorean owner but soon will be; I've been a member of the Pontiac
Fiero (my first love) mailing list for over 5 years and have owned my Fiero
for 8. In those years I've run across all sorts of people and have gleaned
much information from those experiences. As a result, I can't help but reply
to your post: (I apologize for length)

>> What if a well meaning journalist wanted to write a story 
>> on the car and found the so called "Now you bought a DeLorean...now 
>> what?/Problem page(s)" web site that you want?

So what? There will just be yet another negative opinion about the Delorean.
You know what they say about opinions. :) Personally, I think the
information is valuable enough that a remote (actually, very remote) chance
of staining the car's reputation is something we should live with. The fact
of the matter is, all cars have problems. Deloreans are ~20 years old now
and cars this old need special care. If a journalist and/or the general
public does not understand this, so be it. The D has a special place in our
hearts and that's all that should matter.

Incidentally, the Fiero suffers from some of the same publicity problems:
Most people don't know a thing about them. Those that do often remark, "But
don't those things just randomly catch on fire?" (The first batch of engines
in the '84 Fiero was bad. They'd throw a rod and hot oil would collect in a
heat shield and catch fire. They were recalled, engines replaced, heat
shield redesigned, problem solved, yet many people are convinced that all
Fieros will eventually catch fire for no reason. I've had people get in my
face over it, yelling at me for driving such a "road hazard".) Fieros also
have a reputation of being hard to work on - I do most of the work myself,
since no shops want to touch it, and when they do they screw it up - and are
supposedly prone to all sorts of other problems. They're great little cars,
just like Deloreans, and from my experience there is nothing wrong with a
Fiero that isn't also wrong with any other 15+ year old car. Yet bad
reputations persist. There's really nothing you can do about it. Might as
well use the information, continue to repair/maintain the car, and have fun
with it.

>> He laughed at us, when we said the cars were reliable and fun to 
>> own.

So what? There will always be people who refuse to hear the facts and will
claim we're all idiots for owning a Delorean. You'll run into this
regardless of what you drive. Who really cares what they think? The vast
majority of the population is enamored with Deloreans, and nobody - not a
journalist, not a "how to fix your Delorean" web site, and certainly not
this guy - will ever change that.

>> Not every DeLorean out there is problem prone 
>> and unreliable.

The point of the project is not to make Deloreans look bad, it's to help us
keep them looking good. You'll find a howto/list of problems manual for
almost every unique car on the web. Don't believe me? Go search for Fieros,
Nissan Z cars, RX-7s, Corvettes, Miatas, heck even your run of the mill
Hondas have their own cult following nowdays (though I'm not quite sure
why). These lists of problems serve to keep the cars on the road and help
out owners. They don't give the cars a bad reputation. If 50 people run
across the list and think, "Woah, Deloreans sure have a lot of problems",
who cares? If anything, perhaps it will deter the casual owner (you know the
type, they want a Delorean but don't want to take care of it) from
eventually destroying another D due to lack of maintenance.

>> I've searched the archive for Joy, Love, and Happiness 
>> owning a DeLorean, and the results weren't good.

That's because most people don't come here to brag about their car. They'd
be preaching to the choir. Besides, when the car is running good, we're
(well, not me, yet) out driving it, not sitting on our bums gloating over
it. We come here for answers to our problems. That's what the list is all
about. I suppose you could start a list where the only topic allowed is the
joy, love and happiness of owning a Delorean, but I doubt you'd get many
posts. Not because there is a lack of such feelings, but because I know of
few people who want to sit around and brag all day.

As a newbie - I knew nothing about Deloreans until I joined this list a
couple of weeks ago - it's great having the information to form an objective
opinion about the D before I purchase one. I've run across plenty of web
sites full of praise for the D. I have yet to run across one that was
negative, unless you consider ("I love this car. I've put countless hours of
hard work into it because I love it so much, and here's a list of the
problems I've encountered and how I fixed them") to be negative. I don't. To
me, it shows the strength of the Delorean community, and the love that
owners have for their cars if they are willing to invest so much time and
effort into making them "perfect".

- Ryan Wright, MCP (ryan.wright_at_dml_lambweston.com)
- Web Operations Analyst
- Lamb-Weston, Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com [mailto:senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com]
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 10:05 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] "New Owner Documentation" 

    DML,

        There are many talented members of this group. I have had the 
pleasure to met some of the members. Most of you have a tremendous amount of

energy and devotion to the car. Anyone who is related to the DeLorean, out
of 
ownership or curiosity, is very appreciative and thankful of the resources 
and dedication that they have contributed.

<<< snip >>>

Sincerely,
Mike Pack



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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:47:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: frequency valve again

I recently started working on my car again, and got some more strange
running results..  Before, when the key was turned to the 'on' position, the
frequency valve would buzz and buzz and not stop.  NOW, it's buzzing for
about a second, and stopping.  What is it supposed to do?  If it's supposed
to keep buzzing, does anyone guess why mine is not?

I've been fighting with another problem- running rich.  I just recently
found that 4 of my vaccuum lines were hooked up incorrectly- the fuel
pressure regulator was hooked (at the T) to the manifold, the hose the
regulator should be hooked to was connected to the distributor's spark
advance, and the other two hoses coming out from under the air intake were
connected to the solenoid.  Who would have created this debauchery!!?  Also
the power to the pressure regulator was disconnected.  having hooked that
all back up, it still runs as bad as ever... billowing black smoke comes out
the exhaust.. If the frequency valve is not working while running (can't
tell, there's only one of me and the car won't idle at all), could it cause
the car to run so rich?

thanks for the help...
Jim






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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:33:28 -0000
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com
Subject: Re: Removing frame from car...

I have also done a frame off restoration. If you are swapping out a 
complete rolling chassis (all suspension parts are on the "new 
chassis") and you are just going to install your engine along with 
the fuel system, it will probably be a good weekend project. If you 
are going to just swap a bare frame and have to transfer everything 
from the old to new....that will take time. I figure a better part of 
maybe 4 days or so for a DIY. It is not all that difficult to remove 
the frame with the engine/tranny/fuel system intact. There are 12 
bolts (if memory serves me correct) that hold the body to the 
chassis. 2 are in the luggage compartment, 6 are in the car itself (2 
are the actual bolts that mount the seat belt clip to the frame) 
under the carpet just below the center console on either side and two 
are in the engine compartment. You will them have to disconnect and 
pull the battery cables from the body of the car along with 
disconnecting the parking brake cables, Steering link, heater hoses 
(the two that go to the heater core inside the passenger side), 
Vacuum hose going to the Brake master cylinder booster, the two brake 
lines going into the master cylinder, the one line going into the 
master clutch cylinder, disconnect the front wire harness going to 
the frame, disconnect all wires in the engine compartment going to 
the engine, all ground wires in the engine compartment going from the 
frame to the body and also in the front of the car, disconnect the 
A/C line going to the accum (BE VERY CARFULL DOING THAT! Make sure 
you have the system vacuumed out of all R-12 safely and that you take 
great care removing the hose from the accum) and remove the shifter 
boot along with the seal below it from inside the car. Once you have 
done all that you can then lift the body off the frame as Nick did (I 
did it differently when I removed it, but did it his way when I put 
the frame back). As you lift the Body off the frame keep an eye out 
for any stray wires or lines that you may have missed when 
disconnecting everything. Once the body is in the air and the frame 
will clear it, roll it on out. One bit of advice, I removed the front 
wheels and laid the front end on a dolly. This brought the front of 
the chassis down a little bit ( so you don't have to raise the body 
to far for it to clear) and it also allowed better control (steering) 
as you roll the chassis out. It made it allot easier to move the 
front end around instead of kicking the front tires around to steer 
it.
You can do all this by yourself but suggest that you have a friend or 
two to help you out to have an extra set of eyes and for safety 
reasons.

Steve Rubano

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., shirazcupala_at_dml_h... wrote:
> In a recent post, Nick reference his site where there are pitures 
of 
> his car with the frame separated from the body. See the link below 
> for the pictures.  He says it took about 5 hours to do the 
> separation.  It looks like both pieces are in tact except being 
> separated. I know this can't be entirely true because of certain 
> hoses and lines.  However, these pictures make me wonder if it is 
> relatively easy to swap frames in case of frame damage.  I 
originally 
> thought that you'd have to take the whole car apart.
> 
> Does anyone have any knowledge of how much time/effort would be 
> involved in just swapping the DeLorean frame?
> 
> thanks,
> shiraz
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., njp548_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Nick 1852  Http://members.aol.com/njp548




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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:54:20
From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Clock Console Wiring Help


I'm still trying to successfully install my radio. What I'm missing 
obviously is the +12V IGN wire.

I have been thinking of hooking up to one of the wires going to the clock in 
the center console (my DeLorean don't have the clock, but the wiring is 
still there. Now, the question is: Does the clock wiring have +12V IGN or 
does it only have +12V CONTINUOUS???

The wires going to that 4 pin plug have the following colors:

2 purple going into 1 pin

1 white/green going into 1 pin

1 black going into 1 pin ( I believe this is ground?)

1 red/orange wire going into 1 pin

Now, which wires carry +12V and +12IGN?

My hope is some of you can help me. I cannot find anything in the Workshop 
Manual.

My idea is to hook up the +12V IGN on my radio to one of the wires going to 
the clock plug. I would think that is safe since it is secured by a fuse in 
the fusebox.

Thanks again  for all your help and efforts...

Stian Birkeland
NORWAY

VIN # 06759

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:57:41 EST
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Removing frame from car...

In a message dated 3/27/01 7:09:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
shirazcupala_at_dml_home.com writes:

<< I know this can't be entirely true because of certain 
 hoses and lines.  >>
Shiraz,

    It is true that the frame and body can be separated completely intact.  
The only hoses and lines that need to be disconnected are the electrical 
connections for the engine wiring harness, a/c lines that go to condensor, 
a/c line that goes to accumulator (behind passenger tire), disconnect parking 
brake cables, and then the battery cables that go through the body to the 
battery compartment.  Also, what do lines and hoses have to do with the frame 
and body being intact?  If you want me to send you the complete let of things 
that you need to separate in order to do the frame/body separation, e-mail me 
privately and I can send it to you.

Later,
Nick
1852
<A HREF="Http://members.aol.com/njp548">Http://members.aol.com/njp548</A>



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Message: 22
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 19:12:15 -0000
From: delorean502_at_dml_excite.com
Subject: cheap delorean for sale in Michigan

Hi,
There is an '81 Delorean for sale about 30 miles from me.  He is 
asking $9500 for it.  All he says in the ad is that it is in 
excellent condition, but needs frame work.  If anyone is interested I 
will look at it or I can give you his phone number.

Erik Geerdink
4512




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Message: 23
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:12:47 -0800
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>
Subject: Re: Radio wiring - Need more help!

Hello again, what exactly do you have coming out from under the dash?  In other
words, very clearly, what do you have now and what do you need?   While the red
and orange go from the radio to the plug, that's not necessarily the coding
under the dash.   What do you have, if anything and what colors?

Les

Stian Birkeland wrote:

> John's radio diagram is great BUT I have more problems:
> What do you do when the radio wiring isn't there... the wires going to the
> car connector which in turn connects to the Craig connector.
>

Moderator:  Note truncation job here.  I agree with not cluttering up
unnecessarily





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Message: 24
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:25:12 +0200
From: Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>
Subject: Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!

Kevin Abato wrote:

> I was driving home (1 hour commute) and the last 5 minutes, I noticed that
> if I took a sharp (or somewhat sharp) right turn, I could hear a rubbing
> sound (like a fan blade scraping something, or the a tire rubbing on the
> body)  It came from the front right side of the car (my first thought was
> the tire) but I just drove again, and had the same thing, but noticed I had
> the heater on with the blower set to "1".  If I turned it off while turning
> or set it higher, the rubbing sound went away.  Is the blower fan for the
> heat located in the front right side of the car?  Is this what I am hearing?
> When I shut it off, it slowly went away, when I cranked it to "2" or "3" it
> went away and I could hear the fan with its normal sound.

The fan for the interior heating is on the righthandside of the car, 
under the windshield. The actual fanblades are commonly refered to as the
squirell-cage because of the similarity of both.

My gues is that you have a slight imbalance in the fan that causes it to rock 
and hit the inside of the case it's in when turning.
Setting the speed higher (you only mention 2 and 3, my D has 4 fanspeeds...)
would give this imbalance less chance to hit anything or it would at least hit
for a shorter period every time thus making it less noticable...

Take a look at section 7:1:0 of the partsmanual to see what it all looks like,
You can reach the fan from under the dash on the passenger side,
the procedure is explained in the workshopmanual in section N:08:01.

I'd remove the fan first to see if it has any damage on the "cage",
this would be evidence of rubbing. Also, with the fan removed, 
you can go for a drive to see if the sound is gone now...
If not, re-install it and look for another possible cause.

My guess is it IS the interior fan.
Good luck,

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

check out the Delorean-Files at:
http://www.deloreanfiles.nl/
------------------------------



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Message: 25
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:39:52 +0200
From: Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>
Subject: Re: Radio wiring - Need more help!

Stian wrote:

> John's radio diagram is great BUT I have more problems:
> What do you do when the radio wiring isn't there... 
[snip]
> My question, where are the wires suppose to come from, 
> from behind the center console? 

If my memory serves me right the wires come out of the central 
wiringloom, the one coming to the front on the righthandside of 
the center console, then making a turn underneath the radiobracket
and going back down the lefthandside...
Both strands/looms of wiring are visible in the files-area at:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/files/Aftermarket%20Stereo%20in%20%2305141/bracket.jpg>

The gey wires are new speakerleads I put in, the red one is powersupply
to the radio, tapped from the "hot" side of the DoorLock-circuitbreaker
with an inline fuse at the "hot" end (near the breaker...).

> I need to hook up new wires. I have the speaker wires and 
> antenna, but am missing the original +12V wire together with the +12V 
> ignition wire... I think they are supposed to be red and orange 
> respectively. Please help!

I put in a new powerlead because I didn't really trust the currentrating
of the original wire, I DID leave it in as feed for my carkit.
You can tap into the wiring under the shifterplate for the ACC-wire:
there's a lightgreen w/ white stripe wire under there as preparation for 
the gearshiftillumination on the automatics. If you HAVE an automatic,
just tap into the wire using a "scotch-lock".

Don't worry about the currentdraw; this wire is part of the original loom
the radio got power from, so it can handle it AND it wouldn't really
draw that much current since it only has to keep the presets and keeps the
clock running on time, the operating current is drawn from the +12V.
Put in a fuse for 3Amps just to be safe (that's the originally used rating, 
so no problem there either...)

Good Luck and just mail me if you need additional help,

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

check out the Delorean-Files at:
http://www.deloreanfiles.nl/
------------------------------



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