From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 494
Date: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:02 PM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: cooling problem
From: "Ryan McCaffrey" <>

2. Re: Fuel Pick Up Hose Substitute.

3. Re: How many Deloreans?

4. Re: Mid Atlantic DMC Saturday 21, April 2001

5. Re: trans question
From: William T Wilson <>

6. Re: No Bragging??? was RE: "New Owner Documentation"
From: "Walter" <>

7. David T. Takeuchi

8. Re: How many Deloreans?
From: William T Wilson <>

9. Re: Temperature question?

10. Re: Fan speed "3" is gone..
From: Jan van de Wouw <>

11. Re: How many Deloreans?

12. Re: Ignition Compensating Resistors/Ballast Resistors
From: "Matthew David" <>

13. Mid-Atlantic Social Hotel Info...
From: "Dan RC30" <>

14. British Car Day South
From: "Doc" <>

15. Re: Mid Atlantic DMC Saturday 21, April 2001

16. ~ DeLorean Clubs Near Washington DC?

17. Window washer failure
From: "Chris Parnham" <>

18. Reasonableness
From: Les Huckins <>

19. CAMS
From: Willie Mack <>

20. Re: Digest Number 493
From: WyldKard <>

21. Re: Of Ground Effects & Two-Toned Interiors...
From: Dick Ryan <>

22. RE: How many Deloreans?
From: Evil MoFo <>

23. Charging Battery Bubbling Noise

24. Re: Re: Cold engine performance problem
From: "Ed Garbade" <>

25. First & Last (was "How Many DeLoreans?"
From: Shannon Yocom <>

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 20:00:27 -0700
From: "Ryan McCaffrey" <>
Subject: RE: cooling problem


I also encountered this problem recently.  My solution turned out to be a
thermostat that decided it didn't want to work anymore.

Good luck,

Ryan McCaffrey
Arizona DeLorean Club

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 10:31 AM
Subject: [DML] cooling problem

Hello list,

My problem is my fans don't come on anymore.


Message: 2
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 23:00:46 EDT
Subject: Re: Fuel Pick Up Hose Substitute.

    I had the fuel system replaced and updated by PJ Grady DMC four or five 
years ago. I took a look inside the tank to see it the hose was still in good 
shape...No problems. The hose is still as good as new.

Mike Pack
DOA 4743
VIN 3713


Message: 3
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 23:12:19 EDT
Subject: Re: How many Deloreans?

    The generally accepted number is 8,583 DeLorean car manufactured between 

The greatest concentration of cars manufactured are the 1981 vehicles. 
    Approximately 1000 cars built in 1982.  There were three periods of 
idleness on the assembly line after the February bankruptcy (receivership).
    There were 918 "1983" DeLorean cars manufactured in 1982.
The last day DeLorean cars were assembled in Belfast was December 24, 1982.


Mike Pack
DOA 4743
VIN 3713


Message: 4
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 23:16:26 EDT
Subject: Re: Mid Atlantic DMC Saturday 21, April 2001


The technical seminar sounds like a great idea and a big Thank You to Rob 
Grady for conducting the technical seminar.
Is the garage mentioned in the invitation a DeLorean friendly garage?

Is there service stall available to torque the trailing arm bolts?



Message: 5
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 23:33:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: William T Wilson <>
Subject: Re: trans question

On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, sk1pper wrote:

> how much hp/ torque can a D's 5 manual trans safely handle?

The conventional wisdom is about 250 to 300 ft.lbs of torque.  It's plenty
tough for any reasonable adaptation of the PRV.  There are setups on
DeLoreans with more than this much power and I know of two which have had
transmission problems (and none which haven't), however, one of them is
used for drag racing and the other might have been weak to begin with.  
The common Island Turbo PRV's producing around 200 ft.lbs of torque don't
cause any trouble for the transmission.

Torque stresses on a transmission are increased in lower gears.  If you
can control yourself in first gear, and especially if you shift smoothly,
probably you can use the existing transmission unless you are planning on
Silly Power (tm).  Clutch stresses on the other hand are worse in higher
gears.  Be sure to get a heavy duty clutch, there is a Centerforce model
for the DeLorean.

If you still need more power, you can adapt a transaxle from a 911 Turbo;
adapters are readily available for most engines and the axles are close to
a fit.  You get to figure out how to mount it. :}


Message: 6
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 23:14:41 -0400
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: Re: No Bragging??? was RE: "New Owner Documentation"

Kewl!  I love it.  I'm working on getting my car up to that level.  For now,
no wet weather or the roof leaks.

See you in the future,

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan RC30 <>
To: <>
Date: Friday, March 30, 2001 6:38 PM
Subject: [DML] No Bragging??? was RE: "New Owner Documentation"

>Clip--->"That's because most people don't come here to brag about their
>They'd be preaching to the choir. Besides, when the car is running good,
>we're (well, not me, yet) out driving it, not sitting on our bums gloating
>over it. We come here for answers to our problems."<---end clip


Message: 7
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 23:49:45 EDT
Subject: David T. Takeuchi

    This is a question for the veteran list members. What ever happened to 
David Takeuchi of Corvaillis, OR?



Message: 8
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 23:49:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: William T Wilson <>
Subject: Re: How many Deloreans?

On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Kevin Abato wrote:

> Ok....Here is the common question(s) that I am asked, and I can not
> answer some of them:
> How many Deloreans were made?  (8,400 or something right?)

Nobody really knows.  Stainless Steel Illusion says 8587 (IIRC) but this
number is probably wrong.  Most likely more than that were made.  One of
the people who worked in the factory said that most likely more than
10,000 were produced and statistical analysis of the VIN numbers indicates
that is probably closer than 8587.

> How many are still around?

Nobody really knows.  Not all roadworthy DeLoreans are even registered and
there is no way to track them all down.  Probably around 2/3 of them are
still serviceable.

> How many are in the US? (Think I heard that about 6,000 were imported
> into the US)

Almost all DeLoreans were sent to North America.  Probably only a couple
hundred were originally sent to other parts of the world.  I don't know
how many of the North American models went to Canada, but most went to the

> Who owns the first/last one ever made?

The "first" DeLorean depends on what you mean by "first."  There are a few
prototypes floating around, they come up for sale or auction at the rate
of about one per year.  Most of these are only barely roadworthy, either
due to damage or due to simply being incomplete.  A few of the earliest
cars were used for crash testing or demonstration and never sold.  One
list member owns VIN #520 which is (again, IIRC) one of the cars that
should have been destroyed.  It might be the earliest regular production
car still existing.  VIN #502 is the lowest VIN I know about, it is the
special Turbo prototype and (again, IIRC) was located at DMC Houston.

The last "regular" DeLorean is for sale and is located in Chicago.  It
just was advertised on the list last week.  There are also three (or
possibly four) gold-plated cars which are the absolute last cars produced,
all of which are in museums or collections.  One was in a bank in Las
Vegas but I don't know if it's still on display or not, another was in a
car museum in I believe Texas, and the third is/was in a private
collection somewhere on the east coast.  I think it might have come up for
sale recently also.

Sorry for vagueness and inaccuracies.  All this information has been on
the list over the past couple years and I'm just trying to remember as
much of it as I can.


Message: 9
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 02:28:16 EDT
Subject: Re: Temperature question?

Les, Just wait till your in stop and go traffic or idleing, In 70 degree 
weather while driving my fans most of the time never come on. Doesn't get hot 
enough. But I know summer is coming. Then they will. It's normal to cycle 
with air on.
DMC Joes automatic air bleeder works great. I would recommend it year round 
and naturally the summer months. I bought two of them.
John Hervey


Message: 10
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 14:20:39 +0200
From: Jan van de Wouw <>
Subject: Re: Fan speed "3" is gone..

John Hervey wrote:
> Hank, Since the 4th speed is working ok, that tells you the switch is 
> working and the voltage feed thru the Circuit breaker is ok, If all 
> the connections are good then the only thing left is the resistance 
> wire for the third speed. 

Since Hank stated that 1 and 2 DO work, I would guess the resistorwire
is still OK; if you look at the electrical diagram the resistorwires are
all put in series and "shorted" by the mode switch for 1 and 2 and by
the relays for 3 and 4 because of the higher current.
for 1 and 2 the current passes through the resistor that's shorted out
by the 3rd-speed relay, so that all seems OK.

First thing I would check is if the contacts are all in the sockets, not
pushed down, when that's the case check if you get any power to the 
sockets; there should be +12V at 2 of the contacts, ground on one,
one ground THROUGH THE MOTOR AND RESISTOR #3 and one contact isn't used.

Looking at the "diagram"  beneath it should be like this:
|       1         |
|       ___       |
| 2               |
| ___   3|   4|   |
|        |    |   |
|                 |
|     5 ___       |

1 and 2 should have +12V on them, 5 is ground, 3 isn't used and 4 goes
to the motor through the last resistor. 

with this info and basic troubleshooting techniques you should be able
to determine what's wrong, if not give me a personal mail and I'll
explain even more detailed.

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

check out the Delorean-Files at:

> "Hank Eskin" wrote:
> > Another quick question:
> > My A/C fan only works on speeds of: off,1,2 and 4.  Speed three does not
> > work.  I've replaced the fan speed switch, still doesn't work. I've swapped
> > the 3rd and 4th fan speed relays in the fuse box, and 3rd still doesn't work
> > (4th still works).  Where else can I look? Sometimes you really want "3"!!


Message: 11
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 11:15:02 EDT
Subject: Re: How many Deloreans?


   There have been two sets of numbers tossed around for the Deloreans. The 
first and most widely know number is 8,700 that were produced and sold. The 
first production car was built on Jan 21, 1981. It is vin # BD000500 and we 
saw it last June _at_dml_ the Crawford car museum in Cleveland, Ohio. The last one 
made was vin DD0020104 on Dec 24, 1982. I believe this is the third 24 karate 
gold "D" that we also saw _at_dml_ the Crawford Car Museum. This car was privately 
owned but shipped out from the East coast for the June 2000 car show. 
The other set of numbers we have seen in the last year or so is the over 
10,000 figure that includes company and executive cars that were built but 
not initially sold. They were the cars used by DMC management for company 
purposes and as job perks. If 6,000 came to the U.S then about 4,000 would be 
left. The attrition rate for the "D" has been estimated at about 33%.



Message: 12
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 04:54:34 -0000
From: "Matthew David" <>
Subject: Re: Ignition Compensating Resistors/Ballast Resistors

>The large white resistors mounted on the left firewall of the engine
>compartment, next to the engine compartment light switch, get hot when the
>engine is running.
>Are these resistors supposed to be hot when the engine is running?
>Just curious.
>Scott Mueller
>DMCNEWS 002981
>DOA 5031

The white resistors in question get very hot in my DeLorean when the engine 
is running. I know because when I lean across the engine compartment I 
always seem to rest my hand on them! I understand that they convert the 
electrical energy into heat. My mechanic says they take the ~13 system volts 
and knock it down to about 7. I don't know how true this is but it would 
explain the heat they generate.

Matthew David
DMC VIN 5524
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at


Message: 13
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 10:27:36 -1000
From: "Dan RC30" <>
Subject: Mid-Atlantic Social Hotel Info...

Ok, I went to the nicest, closest Hotel around; Ramada Inn. It's about 4 
miles from the location of the social. The rates are as follows:

For Friday and Saturday nights (all prices are per night):
1 person= $94
2 People= $102

If you're a AAA member:
1 person= 79.21
2 people= 90.78

If 10 or more rooms are reserved, the rates drop (per night):
Any number of people= $84

The address is:
Ramada Inn
250 Highway 202 & 31
Flemington, NJ 08822
Fax: (908)782-1975

Chetan Patel is the manager and is aware of the event. When registering, 
tell him you're stying with the "DeLorean Mid-Atlantic club" group. He said 
he'd try to put everyone in one area if possible.

Date:April 21st (Rain date is the 22nd)
Time: 11am till whenever...

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at


Message: 14
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 14:42:11 -0400
From: "Doc" <>
Subject: British Car Day South

Last year we had six Deloreans at this event and had a great time. This year
we are going to break the barrier, get our own recognition and our own
class. If this happens it will be the first at this large and prestigious
event. If you can make this event please let me know, so that I can have the
ammo needed to get our own class that we deserve.

Details about this event can  be found at

Robert Starling


Message: 15
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 16:13:58 EDT
Subject: Re: Mid Atlantic DMC Saturday 21, April 2001

  The garage was set up by Dan Deutsch and it is a friend of his so it should 
be quite DeLorean friendly.  Any Mid Atlantic member is welcome to have their 
car inspected by Rob, have their doors adjusted or whatever else they need 
addressed.  Its all part of membership in the club.  Non members are welcomed 
to attend if they would like to join that day.  There will be food and 
refreshments as well.  Dues are only 15 dollars a year which covers alot 
including the newsletter.  Just attending the upcoming social and enjoying 
the day and all the perks at the the socail more than makes membership 
worthwhile.  Hope to see many of you there.  It looks like its going to be a 
large turnout from the feedback we have received.

<A HREF="">DeLorean Mid Atlantic Social 2001</A>

Gary Gore
Activities Director
DeLorean Mid Atlantic
VIN 3360


> The technical seminar sounds like a great idea and a big Thank You to Rob 
> Grady for conducting the technical seminar.
> Is the garage mentioned in the invitation a DeLorean friendly garage?
> Is there service stall available to torque the trailing arm bolts?
> Sincerely,
> Mike

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 16
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 17:49:00 EDT
Subject: ~ DeLorean Clubs Near Washington DC?

Hello DML members,

I was wondering if there is a club around the area of Washington DC 
preferrably near College Park Maryland. I am I student living on campus of 
the University of Maryland who would like to learn more information about the 
D through participating in a Club. 

Perhaps maybe someone lives near by with a Delorean, I wouldn't mind washing 
it for you :) I love to drool over the the stainless steel...



Message: 17
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 23:00:26 +0100
From: "Chris Parnham" <>
Subject: Window washer failure

I finally got around to fixing my windshield/ windscreen washer pump. 

It had stopped working months ago dispite me changing the little pump only 6 moths before that. 

The cause?  The little drain holes in the outer black bottle container, had got bunged up with muck and debris resulting in 3 inches of water submerging the pump and bottle ruining the pump motor !

The replacement pumps are readily available in the UK for around 15 or about $22. If any one visiting Eurofest want me to bring some along to the products fair, just ask in the next week or so.

Chris P DOC UK      vins 5638, 12176, 20049.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 18
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 15:46:14 -0700
From: Les Huckins <>
Subject: Reasonableness

Please stop with the "we don't need another tech site" and "let them
find out the same way we did," that's unreasonable.  Without early
guidance it's very easy to make a costly mistake.  That guidance isn't
there.  As an example, the current thread about the fuel pickup hose. 
Immediate horror stories including one who tried to make up his own hose
and paid the price.  Lots of after the fact wisdom, wouldn't it have
been great if he had been able to find out he shouldn't have done it
before he did it?


Message: 19
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 17:57:46 -0400
From: Willie Mack <>
Subject: CAMS

Has anyone replaced the camshafts with performance cams?  If so what brand?
How was the modification process easy or hard?

  Willie Mack
  Vin 5043


Message: 20
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 16:17:29 -0700
From: WyldKard <>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 493

This being my inaugural post to the discussion group, let me say "hi" and 
thank you for all the wise bits of knowledge you have supplied me with. 
I've been lurking here for a while, and am currently looking to purchase a 
DeLorean myself.

As for the radio suggestion, remember that we have at our disposal a great 
communication's medium - the Net. I ran a fairly successful Internet radio 
station a couple years back, and technology has only progressed since then. 
There are a number of ways to stream broadcasts online - RealPlayer and 
Shoutcast are two of the most popular. Add a .com to the end of either of 
those names and you'll get their respective sites. If you're serious about 
starting a DeLorean radio station, consider these two options.

Of course, if you want to build up a multi-user audio discussion, there are 
other ways. While Shoutcast should let your stream from multiple locations, 
software like Roger Wilco or BattleCom might serve your purpose better. 
Both are used by gamers to communicate to one another in team matches 
online, but they can just as easily be used for other types of discussion. 
Roger Wilco is available at, and Battle Com can be found at

         - Frank

>    Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 22:09:50 -0400
>    From: "Walter" <>
>Subject: Re: Amateur radio (was: On another note...!)
>It would be cool if we could start a DeLorean discussion group on the radio.


Message: 21
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 17:00:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dick Ryan <>
Subject: Re: Of Ground Effects & Two-Toned Interiors...

My '83 is one of the "two-toned" interior variety.  I
haven't seen any others, so I can only tell you how
mine is set up.  Everything that is vinyl or leather
is black; ie, dash, center console, seats and doors. 
Headliner, carpet, package shelf covering and carpet
on the lower portion of the doors is grey. 
Personally, I prefer it to the all grey interior of my
first DeLorean and yet is a bit less "tomb like" than
an all black interior.  Just personal preference.

Ground effects were marketed by Harry Ward a number of
years ago and also by Fred Lockett.  Harry no longer
markets anything that I am aware of.  Fred says he may
yet re-enter the DeLorean products arena when he gets
moved and settled.  Let's hope so - he had some neat
appearance items.

Dick Ryan
VIN 16867

Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.


Message: 22
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 18:06:45 -0700
From: Evil MoFo <>
Subject: RE: How many Deloreans?

>One was in a bank in Las Vegas but I don't know if it's still on display or
not, another was in a car museum in I believe Texas, and the third is/was in
a private collection somewhere on the east coast.

You are a little off, one is in the National Automobile Museum in Reno I
know this since I went up and saw it a year or two ago. Another is in Texas
in a bank (this is the one that is/was up for sale). I think you're correct
with the other but I'm not sure.


Message: 23
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 01:40:58 -0000
Subject: Charging Battery Bubbling Noise

Had my battery on the charger for about 8 hours today.  When I
took it off the charger, I heard a bubbling sound coming from
the inside of the battery.  Just wondering, does a charging battery
normally make a bubbling sound after awhile?

John Yeoman


Message: 24
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 22:20:41 -0400
From: "Ed Garbade" <>
Subject: Re: Re: Cold engine performance problem

Thanks to John and David (advice below) I fixed this problem.  Put plugs,
rotor, dist. cap, plug wires, and O2 sensor.  Runs like a new car.

Can anyone pass along info on how to adjust the airflow mixture?


----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 12:04 AM
Subject: [DML] Re: Cold engine performance problem

> Ed, From what your describing, I thing you need a all around tune up.
> Plugs, wires, cap, 02 sensor, so on. Has anyone took the dist cap off
> and looked inside. Be sure that when ever the 02 sensor is replaced,
> that you adjust the air flow mixture after the car heats up. Then go
> for a drive to burn off the rich mixture that may have built up on
> the 02 sensor. If it gets contaminated, you will have the problems
> your describing. Call if I can help.
> John Hervey
> 800-413-3300.9-5 m-f.
>Before tearing into the fuel system to look for gremlins if the
>ignition wires and spark plugs are old try replacing them first. Also
>do a visual inspection of all of the vacuum hoses to see if they are
>on, correctly routed, not brittle, etc. Is the fuel fresh? If the car
>has been sitting and there is old gas in it it is less volitile and
>won't burn good until the engine gets hot. I have seen cars that sit a
>lot and the owner just keeps topping off the tank so the old stale
>fuel sludges up in the bottom. Another thing peculiar to Deloreans is
>that the plugs sit in a "well" so if any moisture gets in there it
>will cause a breakdown of the ignition wire going to the plug. Is the
>car kept outside or is it garaged? Is it worse after a rain?
>David Teitelbaum
>vin 10757


Message: 25
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 19:33:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shannon Yocom <>
Subject: First & Last (was "How Many DeLoreans?"

Both the 1st and last DeLorean were side by side last summer at the DeLorean Car Show in Cleveland. The first one lives at the Crawford Auto Museum in Cleveland, OH. The last one is 24K Gold Plated as a part of the credit card promotion years ago. Ken Koncelik contacted the owner and had it trailerd in for the show. I believe at the time it was for sale if you are interested :-)

Shannon Y.
VIN# Not Yet!

Message: 17
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 14:48:43 -0400
From: "Kevin Abato" <>
Subject: How many Deloreans?


Who owns the first/last one ever made?

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