From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 570
Date: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 4:55 AM

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There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Delorean galvanized frames
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

2. Re: Turn signals...
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

3. Re: Delorean galvanized frames
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

4. Re: Cleaning engine?
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com

5. Re: Delorean galvanized frames
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com

6. Re: Cleaning engine?
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

7. Re: window felt replacement
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

8. Re: Re: no rough idle
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

9. Re: Has anyone heard the latest on the Digital Dash
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

10. Re: Delorean galvanized frames
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>

11. DeLorean mockup on display in Detroit...
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

12. Re: Re: Air Intake - Flex Tube?
From: Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>

13. Re: DeLorean quirks (was "Door Ajar" Light)
From: Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>

14. Re: Cleaning engine?
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

15. spark plugs
From: "Ryan Foster" <westiething_at_dml_hotmail.com>

16. Re: Delorean galvanized frames
From: "Donald Ekhoff" <ekhoff_at_dml_seagullsolutions.net>

17. Re: Delorean galvanized frames
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

18. Re: no rough idle
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

19. Missing Grille
From: "Joseph Molino" <foxmul_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

20. digital dash
From: "Matthew P. Olans" <mpolans_at_dml_creeper.com>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:03:08 EDT
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Delorean galvanized frames


Initially, the frames on the DeLorean preproduction vehicles were 
manufactured of Stainless steel. This was an expensive chassis and JZD was 
quoted describing the frame, "that's not extravagance...not even Rolls Royce 
does that." (produce stainless steel chassis. Old Rolls Royce's' were made 
with wooden frames)
    The epoxy coating was an alternative idea to stainless. 

I have been doing some research removing the epoxy from the DMC chassis with 
RediStrip Company of Roselle Illinois. They developed an immersion process in 
alkaline tanks to remove rust, paint, epoxy, etc., off of car parts, such as 
the entire DeTomaso Pantera body. After the process is complete the frame can 
be galvanized or power coated again.

RediStrip advertises in Hemming Motor News.

Sincerely,
Mike Pack
DOA 4743



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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 19:04:55 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: Turn signals...

The turn signals are supposed to "cancel" when you return the wheel to 
the straight ahead position. If it is not working then there is a 
plastic piece on the switch inside that has probably broken off. You 
will probably notice when turning left it may still cancel but not to 
the right or vice versa. (the vintage of the car doesn't matter)
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., BondAtomic_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hello
> 
> Just wondering if the turn signals are supposed to "go back" once 
you turn 
> the steering wheel back, 



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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 19:53:26 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Delorean galvanized frames

Someone asked Mike Loasby this at Eurofest. The reason is that with all the
tapped holes in the chassis, it's much easier to plug them with plastic
plugs, and coat the frame in epoxy (which won't stick to certain plastics),
then removing the plugs, than galvanising the frame and re-tapping out all
the holes. There's a DW article from a guy who did this and had exactly this
problem. I don't know why they couldn't use plugs in the galvanising process
as well, but there must've been a good one!

Martin

CBL302_at_dml_msn.com wrote:

> Does anybody know why JZD in his infinite wisdom never thought of
> using a galvanized frame such as the Lotus uses(since it is a basic
> copy of a lotus backbone chassis,and if lotus could galvanize their
> frames,there was no reason why the DMC frames could have been
> orignally galvanized),I notice on the Lotus mailing lists they never
> talk/worry about rotting frames,just wondering.
>
> Claude
> 000570




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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 20:14:54 -0000
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning engine?

No matter what "spray and rinse" product you use, just make sure that 
you don't get any water down into the spark plug wells. Do this by 
making sure that you use only spark plug wires for the DeLorean 
and/or PRV6 engine that have the boots at the top. Plus make sure 
that you also have the wires properly seated so that they seal the 
spark plug wells.

-Robert
vin 6585



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., srubano_at_dml_o... wrote:
> I have used another product that is MUCH cheaper and is safe for 
the 
> enviroment. It's called "Oil Eater". I picked up a Gallon of this 
> stuff at Costco and it was only $8.00. You spray it on, let it sit 
> and hose it off.
<SNIP>




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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 20:39:17 -0000
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com
Subject: Re: Delorean galvanized frames

Galvanizing is a "hot dip" process. If you inserted plastic plugs 
they would just burn off during the process. If you use metal plugs 
than they would be permanently installed in the threaded hole after 
the process. Only way to galvanize the frame is to just dip it and re-
tap the holes.

Steve

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> Someone asked Mike Loasby this at Eurofest. The reason is that with 
all the
> tapped holes in the chassis, it's much easier to plug them with 
plastic
> plugs, and coat the frame in epoxy (which won't stick to certain 
plastics),



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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:28:33 -0400
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Cleaning engine?

Ian,

I suggest checking out Tamir's DeLorean site.
http://entermyworld.com
I don't know the exact link to the area in his site, but he describes how he
detailed the underside of his car to look better than new.  As I remember, I
think he painted the cast aluminum parts (oil pan & tranny) with something
like Rustoleum's quick dry silver.  My experience with this paint on cast
aluminum surfaces is that it makes them look like new bare cast aluminum.
The paint also ages to keep looking like bare cast aluminum while keeping
surfaces newer looking from then on.  Although I haven't (wouldn't bother)
trying it on parts that take a lot of heat such as exhaust manifolds.

That is my opinion.  Maybe someone else has a different one.  Generally, I
think Rustoleum sucks, but the quick dry silver variety is good stuff for
this purpose.

Walt    Tampa, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: ian <ian_at_dml_netvigator.com>
>Has anyone any recommendations for cleanig the
>aluminium engine block to get her sparkling again!





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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:05:25 -0400
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: window felt replacement

Christian "Window Felt" Williams,

I had the same problem on my DeLorean.  Medium long story follows:

I ordered new felt/rubber pieces from PJ Grady.  They came in and I noticed
that they were several inches shorter than OEM (and rather expensive).  The
OEM is long enough to cover the entire window (the roll down portion along
with the fixed portions.)  The OEM has two notches cut in it to fit around
the metal bracket it attaches to.  The notches coincide with the forward and
rear facing parts of the roll down window.  The new one from PJ Grady is cut
only long enough to fit between the notches and replaces only the portion
that sits against the moving part of the window.  I complained to Rob about
this, and he said that he got them through DMC Houston and that is the way
they made them.  (It's amazing how all the vendors work together behind the
scenes.  Apparently they buy a lot of stuff from each other.)  Anyway, Rob
said he would take them back, no problem, if I didn't want them.  Thus they
sit in a box somewhere in my garage because I have more important things to
do.  Technically, the new shorter piece would work just fine.  I glued my
original felt back to the rubber piece using what I had on hand: Liquid
Nails paneling adhesive from Home Depot.  That is some good stuff!  In this
application it works better than 3M General Trim Adhesive because the Liquid
Nails is thicker and dries with less shrinkage which helps seep into and
stay in the woven backing of the fuzzy stuff.  Use a small bead.  Too much
may soak through.  Let dry overnight, and make sure the fuzz doesn't slip
while drying.

Another tip:  Rob Grady shipped me some shims (nylon washers) to install
between the metal bracket (that holds the rubber/fuzz) and the stainless
inner door panel.  The idea is to put the spacer at the screw that holds the
bracket at the front part of the moving window.  This stops the window glass
from rubbing the fuzz too hard, yet still gives enough pressure to keep the
window in its track.

Walter (Liquid Nails, JB-Weld, WD-40, black shoe polish, beer can
fuel-baffle) Coe    Tampa, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>
>I simply refuse to believe that there is no aftermarket fix for the shoddy
>DeLorean window felt.





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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:21:57 -0400
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Re: no rough idle

David,

Are you sure about this?  You say, "A cold motor will hunt a little
initially but
quickly calm down as the cold start valve shuts off. "  I understand that
the cold start valve only operates WHILE the starter is engaged IF the
thermo-time switch is cold.  Are you implying that the cold start valve
still flows fuel after the starter has disengaged?

Walt    Tampa, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, June 04, 2001 3:57 PM
Subject: [DML] Re: no rough idle


>Idle quality (hunting) is directly affected by vacuum leaks, a
>breakdown of the secondary ignition system dirty or missfiring
>injecters, and an out of balance cylinder ie: low compression, burnt
>valve etc. You have to remember that the engine operates like a wheel,
>it keeps going around so if 1 cylinder's output is lower (or higher)
>than the others whenever it's turn comes around it will fire a little
>differently than the others causing the engine to speed up or slow
>down then the idle system tries to correct it but it can't react fast
>enough to cancel out the effects of 1 cylinder so it over or
>undershoots resulting in "hunting". A properly tuned motor when warm
>will hardly hunt at all. A cold motor will hunt a little initially but
>quickly calm down as the cold start valve shuts off. To improve gas
>mileage you might need a tune-up and or a mixture adjustment. The
>mixture screw is a very sensitive adjustment so if a 1/2 turn isn't
>making a difference you probably have a vacuum leak somewhere (which
>might account for your bad gas mileage)
>David Teitelbaum
>vin 10757
>
>



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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:34:09 -0400
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Has anyone heard the latest on the Digital Dash

Ben,

I am tempted to put together something out of the www.summitracing.com
catalogue.  They sell very nice digital gauges that probably could be made
to fit together to accurately replace all the stock analog ones.  The speedo
& tach have digital bar graphs that wrap around their perimeters.  I bet
they could all be mounted to a custom face plate that would fit inside the
binnacle with little or no modification to OEM parts.  It looks like the
Summit Racing speedo also has a pickup that will hook on after the lambda
counter.

For now, I am waiting on (who is it?  Matthew Olans?) to have Dakota Digital
make a complete kit for around $800.  But after seeing what Summit Racing
has to offer, it looks like an ala carte setup from them could be made to
work better and cost less.

Walt    Tampa, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben <tahoe98_at_dml_yahoo.com>


>...from Dakota Digital.  I e-mailed them this morning & got the usual
>spiel that "they could custom make me a panel




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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:41:08 +0100
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: Delorean galvanized frames

According to Mike Loasby, one of the senior engineers at the factory, they
did trials on a galvanised chassis frame, they liked everything except that
some of the threaded holes needed to be re-tapped out again, because of zinc
build up. This slowed down the production process too much..see his
technical  video produced following the 1997 Eurofest.

Chris P DOC UK

----- Original Message -----
From: <CBL302_at_dml_msn.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 5:28 AM
Subject: [DML] Delorean galvanized frames


> Does anybody know why JZD in his infinite wisdom never thought of
> using a galvanized frame such as the Lotus uses(since it is a basic
> copy of a lotus backbone chassis,and if lotus could galvanize their



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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 15:52:52 -0600
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: DeLorean mockup on display in Detroit...

Anyone in the area able to go by and take a few pics?

James

---------------------------------------


DEARBORN, Mich., June 4 /PRNewswire/ -- The work of two world-renowned
designers will be on display at the Automotive Hall of Fame from June 5
through June 14.

The special exhibit will include rarely seen scale models of automobiles
designed by Italian Giorgetto Giugiaro, including a Lancia Medusa, Fiat
Punto, Maserati Buran and a DeLorean.

Full text here:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010604/dem009.html




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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 00:18:12 +0200
From: Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>
Subject: Re: Re: Air Intake - Flex Tube?

Steve Rubano wrote:
> 
> In the D's application you need a flex tube. The engine moves
> everytime you step on the gas so if the tube dosn't flex it will
> break.
> 
> Steve 
> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Shannon Yocom <ss_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> > > Why not use something smooth like PVC pipe instead 
> > of flex tube for the air intake?

I actually did this modification this week!
What I did was buy a piece of "Defroster Piping" inner  70mm,
exactly the same as the original, only longer.
I used a 5cm (2") piece of pipe in the elbow to make the connection.

As you can see at

http://www.vdwouw.demon.nl/airintake.jpg

If you didn't know better you'd think it came this way...
Whether it's an improvement on engine performance? I don't know; I did this
because the pipe from the stove was torn and when I removed the valve to see how
it worked. Seeing that the thermostat and other parts inside restrict the actual
diameter of the hose to about 3/4 of what the rest is made me decide to remove
it as a whole. My car starts fine, either hot or cold and idles at 750rpm unless
I touch the throttle within about two minutes of starting it: then it starts "hunting".
Since it doesn't really get cold over here there is no real need for this valve.

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

check out the Delorean-Files at:
http://www.deloreanfiles.nl/
------------------------------

Steve Rubano wrote:
> 
> In the D's application you need a flex tube. The engine moves
> everytime you step on the gas so if the tube dosn't flex it will
> break.
> 
> Steve 
> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Shannon Yocom <ss_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> > > Why not use something smooth like PVC pipe instead 
> > of flex tube for the air intake?



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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 00:39:24 +0200
From: Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>
Subject: Re: DeLorean quirks (was "Door Ajar" Light)

***** Please note: everything I'm writing here is MY opinion;  *****
*****   it is not fact, nor is it meant to attack any one!     *****

DMC Joe wrote:

> Most of the electrical devices used in the DeLorean are standard
> to many other cars. Most door adjar warning systems use the same
> "voltage feedback" system used in the DeLorean. 

I know that, this is one system that I don't really have any comments on; Its'
just that us DeLorean drivers like to show off our doors without draining the
battery. It's our own fault: we shouldn't be proud of our cars  ;-)

> The angle drive is a direct descendant from Jaguar.

I didn't know that, but even then it still is a weird system, why not take the
speedo drive from the gearbox? That way there is a LOT less stretching end
moving involved, so it probably wouldn't break that easily... I was quite
surprised to read that on the early cars the speedocable was another 10 inches
longer: I have the 26" cable, which is just the right length whn you use tha
cable support bracket the right way. If you'd have the 36" cable where would
those extra 10" go??? Flopping around the wheel??? Or was the cable pointed
upward then, so you'd get less movement when turning the wheels left or right???

> The power window system may be custom to the DeLorean mechanically
> but electrically it is similar to most other power window applications.

It is the mechanical part I'm referring to, electrically it's fine, a lot like
the aftermarket system I 've built into my other car myself, only simpler since
both switches are in the center console.
Now that I've seen the inside of my door I understand what's going on in there:
when I roll up the window, I let it go up all the way, then tap down so there's
no unneccesary strain on the tube and gears. It's this strain that made mine fail...

> The main problem with the DeLorean electrical system is not
> the system but weak or poorly designed components.

In my opinion they had to put the car into production too fast, so there wasn't
enough time to test and/or redesign several systems...

> As I'm sure you are aware, most of these week components have
> been improved and or completely redesigned and are readily
> available from most of the DeLoren parts vendors.

Don't understand me wron: I'm NOT complaining! I know of most upgrades and am
pleased to say that my car allready had several installed. I'm making my car
more reliable with everything I'm doing to it, but I'm not going to fix
something that isn't broken (yet), unless it's a safety concern.

And I DO have to say: if it hadn't been for all these little things, and JZD
could have put the DMC-12 into REAL mass production, a lot of us WOULDN'T be
driving one now: It would just be another car, not the exotic car it is now...

But as I said above: thats all my opinion,

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

check out the Delorean-Files at:
http://www.deloreanfiles.nl/
------------------------------



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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 18:52:46 EDT
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning engine?


Try a product called Simple Green. It is biodegradable and works great on 
everything like wheels, engine, stainless. Do not use it on the painted areas.

Mike Pack



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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 23:18:51
From: "Ryan Foster" <westiething_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: spark plugs

hey list,
  I was just wondering if anyone knew which Bosch copper plugs should be 
used in the DeLorean engine. or what is recommended? Thanks!

                         Ryan- vin.#16301

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:22:08 -0700
From: "Donald Ekhoff" <ekhoff_at_dml_seagullsolutions.net>
Subject: Re: Delorean galvanized frames

Mike was referring to "Hot dip galvanizing"  and this is a molten metal
process.  It is like soldering closed all your threaded holes only zinc is
much harder than solder.  It is possible to plug during the hot dip process
with hard carbon plugs but it is problematic and time consuming.

Also Mike indicated that the reason for not using Stainless was not cost but
the poor low temperature (-5 degrees C.) crush characteristics of Stainless
in a litigious American market.  He indicated that in testing it tended to
fracture which undid the crush zone design.

Donald L. Ekhoff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Gutkowski" <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] Delorean galvanized frames


> Someone asked Mike Loasby this at Eurofest. The reason is that with all
the
> tapped holes in the chassis, it's much easier to plug them with plastic
> plugs, and coat the frame in epoxy (which won't stick to certain
plastics),



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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 21:16:24 EDT
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Delorean galvanized frames

In a message dated 6/4/01 4:18:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk writes:


> it's much easier to plug them with plastic
> plugs, and coat the frame in epoxy (which won't stick to certain plastics),
> then removing the plugs, than galvanising the frame and re-tapping out all
> 

And cheaper.  No reason you or I couldn't do it, though. 

-Wayne
11174


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:02:08 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: no rough idle

Dick, Most common, As the 02 sensor gets old, the voltage changes going to the Lambda ECU, the air / fuel mixture will change. Then the 02 will try to adjust which causing it to seek along with a few other things like Dave mentioned. After it warms up, you can adjust the air flow meter to smooth out as long as there are no other problems. If the 02 sensor is new, then you have to re adjust the air flow meter to the new conditions. The computers in the cars today do it automatically. Untill the De Lorean gets a highter level of computer, it's a 3mm long allen ever so often.
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com 



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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:16:32 -0400
From: "Joseph Molino" <foxmul_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Missing Grille

Dear DMC Joe or any other DMC'ers out there.

 I either lost my front grille or someone stole it from me on Friday night
in Northern NJ.  I was wondering if this was a common occurrence.  I plan to
secure my next front grille.  I need a new one.  Is anyone interested in
selling me one.  I drove the car for about 1500 miles since last year and I
have never had a problem and 6 of the 8 ball studs were correctly in place
and it was fastened securely to the front fascia.  I would like to affix my
new one with a small chain (like the one used for bathtub drainplugs)  to
the front fascia support so if it falls again, it will still be attached to
the car, if indeed it did fall.  It might deter thieves as well.  What would
someone do with the grill even if they knew it just pried off?

the car with the missing front teeth,

vin 2580

thanks


Joseph Molino



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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:36:24 -0400
From: "Matthew P. Olans" <mpolans_at_dml_creeper.com>
Subject: digital dash

I have the first digital dash,
        I have yet to install it as my car is with Rob Grady.  I have it
sitting in my living room now and it's a terrific setup.  Sure it may be a
bit pricey but it is plug and play, I just have to install it, hook up the
gauge wires, and give it 12V DC.  I live in NJ so if anyone wants to come
see it I am around.

Matthew
VIN #10365




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