From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 582
Date: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 3:18 PM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: A one off factory Delorean W/a SS frame

2. Re: Dead Market?
From: Michael Pike <>

3. Radio Interference
From: "Jim Reeve" <>

4. Re: cd player installation
From: "Walter" <>

5. Re: First Drive in my DeLorean
From: "Walter" <>

6. Re: Dead Market?
From: "Randy Atamaniuk" <>

7. Body Panels
From: wmack <>

8. Re: cd player installation
From: Jan van de Wouw <>

9. Zero to sixty in HOW many?

10. mufflers
From: wmack <>

11. rain leak

12. Cam removal for performance grind...
From: "Aaron King" <>

13. trailing arm bolts

14. Reluctant downshift.
From: "Payne" <>

15. Re: Dead Market?

16. need an appraisal

17. Tach to Speed chart
From: "Sean Howley" <>

18. CG Replacement
From: "Arne Hofmann (Beta LAYOUT GmbH)" <>

19. Cooling problems
From: Sacha Prins <>

20. Houston Floods
From: Dee Moats <>

21. DMC Prices
From: Watkins Family <>

22. Pictures factory Delorean SS frame

23. N. Carolina show (was Tach to Speed chart)
From: "Walter" <>

24. Re: need an appraisal
From: "Hank Eskin" <>

25. Re: Cooling problems

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:33:49 -0000
Subject: Re: A one off factory Delorean W/a SS frame

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> I don't think the SS frame made it in to any of those cars.  The SS
> frame idea was killed before car 500 was produced. (We saw 500 in
> Cleveland, and I don't remember it having a SS frame).
Then as I suspected that the Delorean pictured at: is a PRE Vin 
number 500 car,as no car came from the factory with sliding 
windows,or Fiberglass front and rear Fiberglass Fascias(and other NON-
Production MAJOR stuff) ,as this Delorean has,and as discribed, it 
has also a non-exopy frame in excellent condition,which means it 
either was in a climate controled garage or it had a Stainless Steel 
Frame under it,for "testing purposes",and as Lotus Engineering was 
the company under contract to do all the engineering aspects on the 
Delorean,you have to come to the conclusion,that this Experimental 
Delorean was one of those Deloreans that escaped being Destroyed,(by 
Lotus)and somehow wound up being sold to the general public,and if 
that is the case I wonder how many more pre-Vin number 500 cars(or 
Lotus/Delorean "Experimental cars")  are out there.Again if anybody 
knows the whereabouts of that car,please let the list know,for 
historic reasons.



Message: 2
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:37:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Pike <>
Subject: Re: Dead Market?

Ebay is the best place... I find they go everytime on

Keep in mind we are in an economic slump, and sports
cars are not necessities (sp?).

I'd buy it if I had the extra cash, I want a second


--- wrote:
> Is anyone buying DeLoreans? Mine is for sale and I'm
> not getting any  serious bites.

[moderator snip]


Message: 3
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:16:07 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <>
Subject: Radio Interference

I recently finished a very comprehensive tuneup on my DeLorean, and 
now I'm getting a random "poping" noise out of my speakers when the 
engine is running.  It doesn't sound like the normal interference that 
usually happens from the engine, it seems like all 4 speakers randomly 
cut in and out often with a loud pop.  It never did this last year, 
and it doesn't do it now in IGN II without the engine running.  I 
realize that the routing of the plug wires can effect radio reception, 
and I'm going to check those out, but what else could be causeing this 
to happen?  I have a late-81 Craig radio.  Thanks.

Jim Reeve
MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club


Message: 4
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:02:12 -0400
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: Re: cd player installation

I'm planning on installing a bass cannon behind the cargo net.  It will be
one of those self-contained units that can be tied to the back.  Then for
shows or trips, I can unplug & remove it.  Then I would still have some
upgraded speakers in the side panels for midrange and everything back there
would look stock.

Walt    Tampa, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: <>
>I now need more bass what do you suggest?


Message: 5
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:41:31 -0400
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: Re: First Drive in my DeLorean


>I m really cautious about
buying a 20 year old part for $400.00

Not a problem.  The new one I bought from PJ Grady was new.  He explained
that it came from France, and he felt that he was lucky to get them at all
due to the language barrier.

>if someone can reproduce the CG unit in a more
>durable form for $400 then put me down for one.

Technically, I think this is what PJ Grady already sells -- a reproduced new
unit that isn't NOS.

It would be a major headache to make a CG from scratch.  There are a lot of
intricate molded plastic pieces.  Also, there may be some patent and
copyright problems to deal with.

The non-electrical parts of the units are pretty durable anyway.  I suppose
someone eventually will advertise to rebuild these units in a similar
fashion to the way PJ Grady rebuilds angle drives.  Not every core is
rebuildable, and some people don't want to leave their cars apart for the
amount of time it would take to have the part rebuilt.

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 6
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:25:40 -0600
From: "Randy Atamaniuk" <>
Subject: Re: Dead Market?

Try DuPont Registry.  They put out one of the highest quality exotic & 
classic automobile magazines out there.  There website is:

>Subject: [DML] Dead Market?
>Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:08:17 -0000
> Is anyone buying DeLoreans? Mine is for
> sale and I'm not getting any
> serious bites. 


Message: 7
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:14:56 -0400
From: wmack <>
Subject: Body Panels

hey list,
   How would i take the body panels off to resurface them?

  Vin 5043


Message: 8
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:07:43 +0200
From: Jan van de Wouw <>
Subject: Re: cd player installation

Andy wrote:

> i was able to find the constant
> 12V wire (yellow) and the ignition wire (purple).  

This is not original as far as I know:
+12V permanent should be purple,
+12V after ignition is supposed to be Light green w/ White stripe

> but anyway, the deck looks great, and if the D had a decent soundstage, it
> would sound really good too! the previous owner put MTX speakers in the car
> last year, but it still sounds like crap because 3.5" and 5x7's don't have
> much bass.....  

This lack of bass is also a result of the lack off insulation behind the
speakers and the fact that they are not enclosed properly, but sit in open air.
Especially Bass is very sensitive to this. If you don't want to loose too much
space on the parcel shelf I'd put the speakers in the rear wall. I did so on
mine after a tip from DMC Joe I read several months ago when the radio thread
came up again. I believe he used to be an audio-engineer or something similar,
so he should know what he's talking about!

Good luck with your system, post some pictures somewhere?!?

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

check out the Delorean-Files at:


Message: 9
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:21:55 -0000
Subject: Zero to sixty in HOW many?

I pulled up next to a buddy at a red light on the way to work this
morning, and we had it out!  I beat him...just barely, and he's
driving an Acura Integra (0-60 in 8.9 I think).  He said I would've
beat him handily if I had come off the line faster.  Part of that is
my driving skill, since I started out at idle.  I'm just NOT willing
to do what the Automotive Press does, such as sidestepping the clutch
at 5000 RPMs.  Also, the DMC is geared very differently; I was winding
up 1st gear when he was half-way through second gear, even through he
redlines close to 8K RPMs.  I probably should have turned off the A/C,

But now I'm trying to find 0-60 times for a stock Delorean...with no
luck.  Or too much luck, that is: I've found 8.5, 9.5 and 10.5 seconds
so far (big difference!)  The latter and slowest figure comes from the
test drive by Car and Driver; DMC's own literature says 8.8.

It gets more complicated when I try to get a curb weight.  The numbers
I find vary by over 100 pounds, including the two different figures
listed in the FAQ!

This is why I haven't gone out and gotten any 0-60 times with the new
engine, since I can't find realistic stock figures, and I question my
own ability to push the car that hard.  Hint: with my old engine, the
best 0-60 I could muster was in the 16-17 second range!  I always come
up about 50% high above published 0-60 times, regardless of the car.

If I were to give *MY* 0-60 time with the new engine, it would look
like the car got slower.   :-)

Gus Schlachter
Austin, TX


Message: 10
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:23:07 -0400
From: wmack <>
Subject: mufflers

Does anyone know where i can get a performance muffler for a delorean?  or a 
cross referenced performance muffler?

  vin 5043


Message: 11
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:14:29 -0000
Subject: rain leak

well the car was outside today and we had some pretty average rain.

i've got a leak, but doesn't seem to be the door seals, in fact i 
thought it was the windshield, but it doesnt seem like water could 
get up under the ridge. the leak (as far as i can tell, although 
water does tend to be sneaky) is up at the very front of the car on 
the passenger side about 3 inches in from the  edge of the sun visor 
that is closest to the center of the car (puddled on the top of the 
sun visor today).

anyone seen this? any ideas?



Message: 12
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:58:39
From: "Aaron King" <>
Subject: Cam removal for performance grind...

I am going to get the cams in my engine a performance grind, and I was 
wondering if removing them (and reinstalling them) is too difficult for a 
beginning to intermediate mechanic.  If not, has anyone done this before?  
Any hints, tips, or tricks?  My experience has mostly been in fuel system 
fixes, and I haven't really touched the block yet.  Also, I have seen 
differing statistics regarding whether the DeLorean is a dual cam (per 
cylinder bank) or single cam engine.  Could someone clear that up for me?  
(The reason I ask is, I'm being charged by the camshaft)  Horray for better 
performance!  Well....a little maybe.


Aaron King
Kirkland, WA
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at


Message: 13
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:17:34 -0000
Subject: trailing arm bolts

I'm curious if i need to replace the trailing arm bolts in my car 
10676 (manufactured dec 1981 - considered an 82). I'm not entirely 
sure where they are located, or even what to look for when i find 



Message: 14
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:48:28 -0700
From: "Payne" <>
Subject: Reluctant downshift.

Ever since I bought #2975 she doesn't like to downshift to seccond gear.  It
will up-shift to seccond just fine, but feels very indirect and not nearly
as precise as the other gears feel.  It doesn't grind at all, just has a
"pulling on rubber bands" feeling to it.  When I put the lever in seccond
from neutral or any other gear but first, it just tries to spring back out
and never really engages the gear.  Sometimes I can get it to go, but it
takes a couple of tries and still never really feels like the lever is in
the right place.  I thought the plastic fluid line may be partially
responsible (I will be replacing it) but the problem is definetely more
noticeable when the car is cold.  I recently removed my shift assembly due
to a broken shift lever.  After I reassembled it and replaced it in the car,
there was a much more precise feeling when I up-shift, but exactly the same
problem trying to go down to seccond gear.

Any ideas?  Is the linkage adjustable?  I did do a quick inspection of the
underside, but maybe I just don't know exactly what to look for.  Just a
note, the car has had a new clutch only a few thousand miles ago.

Thanks a lot everyone!



Message: 15
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:51:42 -0000
Subject: Re: Dead Market?

The used car market for "toy " cars is down right now in large part 
due to the economy and the stock market in particular. Reposessions 
are way up as are bankrupcies. This is not a good time to sell your 
car and expect a high price even if it is in perfect condition. This 
doesn't mean you can't sell for a good price it just may take a lot 
longer because there are less people interested in buying Deloreans. 
BTW with June 15 comming up and many people scrapping up what they can 
to pay their estimated taxes the next couple of weeks is a bad time.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., eurojet_at_dml_s... wrote:
> Is anyone buying DeLoreans? Mine is
> for sale and I'm not getting any 
> serious bites. 

[moderator snip]


Message: 16
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:16:04 -0000
Subject: need an appraisal

anyone know of the closest place to Melrose MA that i can get an 
insurance appraisal for my D?

(preferably one of those guys that is always putting them in the 25-
30k range :) )



Message: 17
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:02:19 -0400
From: "Sean Howley" <>
Subject: Tach to Speed chart

This weekend, I was driving back from the Tanglewood (sp) show in N. Carolina (great show by the way, so next year more of you owners out there should come) and was driving rather fast.  The speedo needle stopped moving at about 82.5 mph, but I was still accelerating.  I am now left wondering what speed I was actually going as no police were around to let me know.  Does anyone out there have a crossover chart showing what speeds you should be going and at the corresponding tach reading (especially for 5th gear).  If anyone can help, I would appreciate it!

Sean Howley

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 18
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:33:45 +0200
From: "Arne Hofmann (Beta LAYOUT GmbH)" <>
Subject: CG Replacement

Hi James,
before I fixed my CG few days ago, I started a design
with the following options:

- improved automatic shift with adjustable shiftpoints
- switchable to manual tiptronic (two buttons) with adjustable
  shifting back security point (taken from the generator on the 

Layout and the production of a few pcbs would be no problem 
because I own a company specialized in PCB-Prototype production
To try out - build in - improve ... of course will cost a lot
of time...and my CG is working so nicely at the moment ;-)

Let's see the feedback first.....


> So my main question is how long will it be until someone starts producing CG
> units that can withstand a bolt of lighting ? I m really cautious about
> buying a 20 year old part for $400.00 and always having it in the back of my
> mind that it could, and probably will, at sometime fail again.
>  I know there are some real electrical buffs on this list. surly someone is
> interested in making some money from redesigned units. From what I have
> heard the actual components in the shift computer are very basic and
> probably not very expensive, if someone can reproduce the CG unit in a more
> durable form for $400 then put me down for one.

Feldstrasse 2
65326 Aarbergen

Tel.: 0049 6120 907010
Fax.: 0049 6120 907014


Message: 19
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:48:14 +0200
From: Sacha Prins <>
Subject: Cooling problems


I'm experiencing cooling problems with my new DeLorean. It overheats in
10 minutes just idling. This makes me believe the cooling system doesn't
work at all.

- The fans never turn on (even when I turn on the AC).
- I doupt the water pump works at all, meaning there is no circulation.

To test the fans I tried to short cirquit the Cooling Fan Relay (24,
M:07:01, workshop manual) to no avail. According to the cirquit scheme
in M:18:10 this should work, but it didn't (this car doesn't have a
fanzilla yet).

I'd like to test the fans and the waterpump by just putting 12V on it. I
wonder what the best way to do this is. Should I put 12V somewhere on
the right wires in the relay compartment, or should I put 12V directly on
the individual fans and the 12V connection on the waterpump? Or is this
the wrong test method?

When the fans and pump turn out to work I can bleed the cooling system
to see if that helps.

The rest of the car seems to work so it looks like a specific problem.



Message: 20
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 05:17:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee Moats <>
Subject: Houston Floods

I can't speak for Stephen Wynne or DMC but my DeLorean is now at DMC after
being flooded to about 2/3 of the windshield.  I must say a tan interior
looks superior to grey but I would rather have the grey.  Dee Moats Vin
04434 again I hope. 

On Sun, 10 Jun 2001 13:06:46 EDT, wrote:

>     Is everyone at DMC and the surrounding Houston Texas vicinity OK? The 
>  news reports show serious flooding and loss. 
>  My prayers are with all of you.
>  Sincerely,
>  Mike Pack
>  DOA 4743


Message: 21
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:11:54 -0400
From: Watkins Family <>
Subject: DMC Prices

If you want my opinion,  there are some in our community who feel this
list and the internet are the reason for the low selling prices of our
cars......Well I agree and disagree.......Here's why.  Do you know what
I hear most often at car shows about DMC prices?  The MOST frequent
statement in regard to prices is.....  "Yeah, well they sell on ebay for
$9,000"...... ebay, folks is the real menace, not this list.

I have met thousands and thousands of people at cars shows over the
years and NOBODY has once ever mentioned our news group as the place
they looked that contributed to their opinion for why they feel the
price is in the lower range.   Ebay, however, comes up all the time.
Ebay transactions have create this impression that our cars ar
$7000-$9000 vehicles.   I try to tell people the while ebay may be a
place to get a car for a low price you can never really be sure of it's
condition unless you have it checked out.  Don't get me wrong, I like
ebay for many reasons, I buy and sell stuff all the time BUT when the
issue of car prices comes up it really ticks me off that the value of
our cars is being viewed as the going rate on ebay.  Most cars that show
up on ebay with a price higher than $15,000 usually don't get any bids.
Never mind those that show up at $35,000!!!!  I feel that most cars that
sell in the lower range are going to end up parts cars anyway as it's
worth more parted out.  That can't be good.

I think that this list, Delorean World/DOA and our numerous vendors all
contribute to a positive image of our cars.  I think we all should look
at ebay for the negative view of car prices and make an effort to either
not use this forum to sell your car or make sure you don't undervalue
your car if you post it there.   Yes, the internet has taken it's toll
on our cars "perceived" value but in my experience with the public they
either mention ebay or what they think they know from old news stories,
the History channel show, a friend of a friend who used to know someone
who had a car etc......This list has NEVER been tossed in as a argument
for the value,reliability or worthiness of our cars.

Tom Watkins


Message: 22
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:56:48 EDT
Subject: Pictures factory Delorean SS frame

Hello List,

    I have pictures of the stainless steel frames from Lotus, and other 
engineering photographs, such as the engines from Renault.  
    I wasn't sure where to post them.

Mike Pack


Message: 23
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:56:28 -0400
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: N. Carolina show (was Tach to Speed chart)

I don't remember seeing anything about this show advertised on the DML.
Let's have everyone try to mention these shows on the list more in advance
so that people from farther away can make it.

So how many DeLoreans made it there?

Walt    Tampa, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Howley <>
To: DMC News <>
Date: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 9:37 AM
Subject: [DML] Tach to Speed chart

>This weekend, I was driving back from the Tanglewood (sp) show in N.
Carolina (great show by the way, so next year more of you owners out there
should come) and was driving rather fast.


Message: 24
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:06:51 -0400
From: "Hank Eskin" <>
Subject: Re: need an appraisal


  I'm in Brookline, and if you find an insurance appraiser nearby, please
let me know!


-Hank #1619

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 7:16 PM
Subject: [DML] need an appraisal

> anyone know of the closest place to Melrose MA that i can get an
> insurance appraisal for my D?
[moderator snip]


Message: 25
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:19:25 EDT
Subject: Re: Cooling problems

Sacha, To test the fan circuit, short out with a clip lead, piece of wire or 
a paperclip  the two wires coming off two 1/4" terminals on the otterstat, 
temp switch on the lower left water pipe. They point down and it's easy done 
from underneath the car. If the fan circuit is working, relay's and all, the 
fans will come on, if not then you will have to find which component is 
failing. Fuses, relay, circuit breaker so on.  If your car has all the 
original parts. Then there is some replacing that needs to be done. All the 
parts are on my web site to fix it up. As for the water pump, if it wasn't 
working then you would hear the bearings grind or you would see water coming 
out of it. 
If the fans come on, and the water pump is ok, then all you may need to do is 
bleed the air out if the water system. 
Easily done by attaching a small 4ft rubber hose on the  water relief valve 
on top of the thermostat on the top of the water pump. Make sure the water 
tank is almost full , heat the car up and take a I think a 10mm wrench and 
turn the valve counter clock to release water or air into a bucket. If you 
watch what's coming out you will see water or air. Do this a few times to 
make sure you have got out all the air and then when your through bleeding, 
make sure the water bottle is filled to the correct level. You can also buy a 
self bleeder which I also show on the site. If after bleeding and the fans 
don't come on, the otterstat/temp switch may need to be replaced or you could 
have two bad fans.
Call if you need any help.
John Hervey
800-413-3300 off 
972-564-9321 evening


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