From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 587
Date: Thursday, June 14, 2001 8:25 AM

Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Euro front plate holder
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

2. Re: Cooling problems
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

3. Re: Fuel system question - electical
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com

4. Re: Cooling problems
From: "Ryan Foster" <westiething_at_dml_hotmail.com>

5. Re: Re: Nationality of DeLorean
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

6. Re: Cooling problems
From: gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com

7. Re: Automatic Car Wash
From: gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com

8. Re: Euro front plate holder
From: <darren.cunningham_at_dml_virgin.net>

9. Re: Automatic Car Wash
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>

10. A/C oil
From: "Ryan Foster" <westiething_at_dml_hotmail.com>

11. Re: DMC Prices
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>

12. Re: Automatic Car Wash
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

13. air-con
From: "Mike Cutting" <mcutting_at_dml_nt.net>

14. E-Bay steared me wrong (was DMC Prices)
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>

15. Re: AC Compressor wont come on
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

16. Re: A/c fixes
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

17. Re: A/c fixes
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

18. Re: Cooling problems, update
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

19. Re: e-bay cars (was DMC Prices)
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

20. Re: AC Compressor wont come on
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

21. Re: Accumalator
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

22. Re: Pektron webpage...
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>

23. Re: AC Compressor wont come on
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

24. Re: Press photo / Article
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>

25. Re: Euro front plate holder
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:22:52 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Euro front plate holder

VELCRO!

(it's what I see on most D's here :-) The double-sided sticly type, in black,
allows removal for shows. Alternatively you can try your luck and use
state-plates. I don't know anyone over here who's ever been stopped on account
of their plates, and a few members run state plates. These are US style plates
showing UK reg numbers

Martin
DOC UK

L Sandel wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> Does anybody know of a source for a front license plate holder for Euro
> plates?  All I can seem to find are holders for USA plates...  Specifically,
> I'm looking for a way to mount a Euro plate without drilling holes in my
> fascia.
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Luke




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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:46:29 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Cooling problems

Sacha,

Even if the thermostat was stuck closed, which I doubt, the engine should not overheat as quickly as you described. The thermostat is not expensive so if you wish, you could replace it in order to eliminate it as a possible cause of your problem. One more suggestion: a cooling system pressure tester would be very helpful in nailing down the problem. 

Thanks for the product plug but I would like to take this opportunity to pass on the correct name of this device to eliminate confusion with other similar products. The official name is "Overheat Protector" and is available at the DeLorean Service Store. For more information on this popular product check out http://www.geocities.com/dmcjoe/overheat.html

DMC Joe

"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: <http://www.deloreanservices.com"> DeLorean services.com
DMC.tv is in your future .....

[moderator snip]



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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:07:37 -0000
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com
Subject: Re: Fuel system question - electical

I should have added that the 75lb reading from the CPR to the 
distributor was with the engine off, fuel pump jumped and the valve 
on the Guage closed (to test the system pressure). The reading from 
the CPR with the valve on the fuel guage in the on position reads 
~3.5 bar...hot or cold. I guess this may be due to a faulty CPR valve 
then. I will have to run a bunch more tests to confirm this. Keep you 
all posted.

Steve

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Chris Spratt <chris_at_dml_i...> wrote:
> >In the workshop manual D:04:14 it states that
> >if a DWELL meter is connected to the Diagnostic
> >plug pin that is connected to terminal 17 of 
> >the ECU module (which is the orange wire) I can

[moderator snip]



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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:13:31
From: "Ryan Foster" <westiething_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cooling problems

Sacha,
I had to change the thermostat in my delorewan it has 21,000 miles on it and 
supposedly the previous owne drove it at least 10 miles a week. When I first 
encountered my overheating problem people were telling me that the 
thermostat most likely wasn't the problem and that they stick open and, yata 
yata. So I bought my thermostat from Pj Grady. And installed it in like 45 
min. very easy. I tested the old one and it wouldn't open. I heated it up 
and it just sat there. So I was glad to change it. To me it is worth it on a 
car that old. Preventive mantinance. I didn't want to do it again.n Good 
luck!
                       Ryan- vin.#16301

[moderator snip]



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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:29:10 -0400
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Nationality of DeLorean


Last summer, when inquiring if I could bring my car to a British Car event
nearby, I called the organizer of the event, and it went something like
this:

Me: Hello.. I'd like to bring my car to the British car show, but I'm not
sure it qualifies as British.

Him: Does it leak oil?

Me: No.

Him: Well, it can't be British.  What kind of car is it?

Me: A Delorean.

Him:  Oh sure, close enough.  Everyone will be glad you brought it.

The show was a blast, and I won second place is the "Special" category.  I'm
looking forward to attending again this year.

-Hank





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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:40:42 -0000
From: gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com
Subject: Re: Cooling problems

DMCJoe,

Hmmm, think we're both wrong.  Don't the fans cycle on and off with
the A/C compressor?  My car is modified to run the fans when A/C is
selected at the mode switch, regardless of the compressor status
(which is what I intended to say with my sloppy grammar).

If I ever claimed to 100% right, I was completely mistaken.

Gus Schlachter
Austin, TX
4695


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_a...> wrote:
Gus, You said:
"If your relays are in the stock configuration, then the cooling fans
are not supposed to come on with the A/C."
>
> This statement is incorrect; regardless of any modification or fan
circuit add-on's, the cooling fans should always run whenever the AC
is turned on.




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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:45:09 -0000
From: gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com
Subject: Re: Automatic Car Wash

I have run my DMC through the touch-free car washes numerous times
without ill effects.

However, it is far more entertaining to wait for a sunny Saturday when
a sorority is having a bikini car-wash day.


Gus 4695


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., badgeman46_at_dml_h... wrote:
> Does anyone know if its ok to run a delorean through a touch free 
> car wash??? I am just wondering if the high water pressure would 
> interfere with the electrical system if it got in the engine 
> compartment. Any car wash experiences?





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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:51:10 +0100
From: <darren.cunningham_at_dml_virgin.net>
Subject: Re: Euro front plate holder

Luke,

I've got my UK plate stuck on the front with velcro, you could try that.

Darren


[mod snip]



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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:21:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Automatic Car Wash

In my 19 years of DeLorean ownership I have used
automatic car washes many times.  While I prefer the
old fashioned hand wash approach, that isn't always
convenient when traveling.  I have never had a problem
with leaks or with electical connections.

Dick Ryan 
VIN 16867



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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:23:56
From: "Ryan Foster" <westiething_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: A/C oil

Is there any specific oil that should be used  when charging the A/C?

Ryan -



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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:30:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DMC Prices

Advertising a car for $50/60K and selling one for that
price are two different things.  I would love to know
just how many cars D1 has sold in the past year at
that price.  

Dick Ryan
VIN 1686- - - - - - - - - -
> They are not far off.  Delorean One now sells
> refurbished Deloreans 
> for over $60K.  
> 
> Erik Geerdink
> 4512

[moderator snip]



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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:22:05 -0400
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Automatic Car Wash

>    Does anyone know if its ok to run a delorean through a touch free
>car wash???
<snip>

I know a guy who services car wash equipment for a living.  In order to test
them, he runs his small truck through.  His truck gets washed this way
several times a day!  Despite all the washing, it never seems to hurt the
paint.

However, he never runs his truck through 'brushless' or 'touch free' car
washes.  He says that in order for them to be effective that the chemicals
they use need to be extra caustic.  He warned that these chemicals will dull
paint as well as get suck behind molding and cause corrosion.

From my own experience with these systems, I ran a non DeLorean through one
and EVERY window leaked from the enormous pressure involved with such a
system.

Considering how delicate the rear louvers are, I will never give an
automatic car wash the privilege of leaving a mark on my car -- touch free
or otherwise.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:29:11 -0400
From: "Mike Cutting" <mcutting_at_dml_nt.net>
Subject: air-con

this is in response to the person looking for affordable fixes for air-con..

i had to replace a lot on my car to get the aircon running again (almost
$2000 cdn) but i did find that the current system will run perfectly with a
product called "fr-12".  the brand name is "frigic".  there is a little info
on this page, about half way down..

http://www.gtv6.org/cl_cool.htm

i am running frigic in my car, and it is great.  my expensive a/c repairs
were due to leake.  i had to replace my evaporator and dryer, as well as a
LOT of labour, the weak canadian dollar and import duties...  that is the
only reason why my a/c fix was expensive.  the frigic conversion involves
changing the valves on top of your compressor, and charging it up!

hope that this is of some help.

:)
mike cutting
new liskeard, ontario
11434
www.nt.net/~mcutting





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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:20:03 -0400
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>
Subject: E-Bay steared me wrong (was DMC Prices)

I looked on E-bay for a while, and every car (about 8 of em) I looked into
(thought I could get away with a good car for under $15k) was a total pile
of junk  :(  I found that unless you want to spend 18-20K on an e-bay
listing, you are better off going through a private seller in a club.

I found most people selling in the 15K and under range on e-bay inherited
the car, or bought it from someone else who ripped them off, and wanted to
get their money back by ripping someone off.  MOst oweners did not include
or lied about facts.  Very dissappointing.  I looked at several cars, and
almost cried due to their condition....


Kevin Abato
Happy Owner of Vin# 6680 (Thanks again Doug!)

[long quote snipped by moderator]



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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 02:50:40 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: AC Compressor wont come on

From your description of the problem there are two things to check. 
The first and most likely is the low pressure switch which is located 
behind the front right wheel. Put a meter on it and check for 
continuity. If there isn't any in all likelyhood you lost your charge 
of Freon. If it checks out the other possability is the A/C section of 
the mode switch. If there is no continuity at the low pressure switch 
go to the compressor and with a tire guage see if there is any 
pressure at the test connection on the suction line. If the pressure 
is not above 60# you need to go to an A/C shop and have it fixed.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Delorean17_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hello,
>     now that it is 70 out I can no longer drive my
> car until night time because the air conditioning
> will not come on.

[moderator snip]



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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 03:09:05 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: A/c fixes

You should not let anyone talk you into converting from R-12. The EPA 
has not approved ANY drop-in replacement for R-12. The seals and "O" 
rings are not compatible with the lubricant used for other gases. The 
oil in your system cannot be entirely removed without completly 
flushing the system and rebuilding the compressor. Some of the 
advertised replacements are really blends of several gases including 
propane and butane. All replacements run at higher head pressures and 
require a larger condenser to achieve the same capacity as R-12. Even 
if you switch no one will be able to tell you how long the system will 
run before the oils destroy metal parts and seals. Even though R-12 is 
going for about $60 a pound you only need 2.5# so it is not the worst 
thing to stay with. The labor will cost more than that no matter what 
you put in. Make sure that the system is THOURGHLY leak checked so it 
isn't wasted. Most good shops use an inert dry gas (like argon or 
nitrogen, or even instrument air) to test the system and sweep out any 
contaminates in preparation for the Freon. A good shop will also want 
to replace the dryer if the system has been open to the atmosphere. If 
you do change to a substitute make sure that the service valves are 
changed and the system is properly labled so no one will mistakenly 
put R-12 in again.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



[moderator snip]



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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:16:10 -0500
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: A/c fixes

Converting to R-134a is cheap. One kit from Walmart for $35 is almost
enough.
However, you have to make sure you don't get any air or moisture inside.
I had a friend with a little pump that we hooked up to the system and let it
run for about 90 minutes, building a good vacuum inside the system. He had
all the gauges and bleeder valves and whatnot to make sure that we didn't
introduce any air or moisture.
Without him, there is no way I would risk doing it myself. Oxygen and water
will mix with the gas and create an acid or something... anyway, it's bad.

R-134a doesn't cool as well as 12. But if you're sweating already, anything
is welcome. It was closing in on 100 yesterday (and SO humid after the
floods here in Houston), and for a few minutes I was wishing that I had 12
for that extra kick.

[moderator snip]



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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 03:16:56 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: Cooling problems, update

It sounds like either air in the system or a stuck thermostat. In any 
case remove the thermostat, bleed the system and see if that fixes the 
car. If it does order a new thermostat, this is what the shop will do 
anyway! To confirm a stuck thermostat put it in a pot of water on the 
stove with a thermometer and heat up the water. It should start to 
open around 180 degrees.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., sprins_at_dml_b... wrote:
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., njp548_at_dml_a... wrote:
> > sprins_at_dml_b... writes:
> > 
> > << should I put 12V directly on
> >  the individual fans and the 12V connection on the waterpump? >>
> >  
> > Sacha,
> > 
> >      What do you mean by putting a 12V connection on the 
waterpump? 
> It works 





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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:28:01 -0500
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: e-bay cars (was DMC Prices)

[Moderator Note: Obviously there are a lot of eBay DeLorean stories.  Because the list is very busy right now with technical discussions, this will be the last one I will approve.  If someone has advice or deeper insight about DeLoreans on eBay I will approve that, but no more "I paid this much and the car had these miles on it" stories until DML traffic slows down.  - Mike Substelny, moderating this week]

I found mine through ebay last October.
I drove two hours to go check it out before bidding, there is no way I would
buy one without seeing it first.
It's #04687, a 10/81 (pretty common), but in terriffic shape. I got some
paperwork with it, including about $5k in repairs in 12/97 in DMC Houston.
It was all pretty normal stuff for a 17 year old car. It only had 17,700
miles. I paid $12,500, plus taxes and licensing fees.
I think the car is probably in the top 25%, and too original. I know I got a
fantastic deal.
I am now approaching 21k, and have very minor things done. Very minor.
I think it cries for suspension work, and some serious door adjustments (one
is heavy feeling but goes all the way up and stays up, the other is light
feeling, but can't go all the way up for the t-panel being off center).

Ebay will be there. BTTF will be there. Big deal. it's life. Deal with it.
Love your car or leave it. etc. etc.

[moderator snip]



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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:35:34 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: AC Compressor wont come on

David, As per the diagram, The voltage comes thru #10 fuse the goes thru the 
mode switch then goes thru a low pressure and some cars may also have a high 
pressure switch. or vice versa, If the fans are coming on, then that would 
mean the voltage is making it thru the switches and to The Fan Fix. Then the 
compressor isn't  grounded good or it's bad. I'm not the greatest air man, 
but that's the diagram. It's pretty straight forward.
John 
http://www.specialtauto.com/



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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:46:17 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Accumalator

Paul, The accumulator in located in the frame, towards the back of the car. 
You will see it nestled up there in the frame.You can also see it on my web 
site. The Bosch number is 0-438-170-029. Check out my price and don't let 
them get to you to bad. You need stubby wrenches and patience to get it out.  
John Hervey
Dallas, Texas
http://www.specialtauto.com/



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Message: 22
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:38:44 +0100
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: Pektron webpage...

Pektron, is in Derby, ( English midlands) only about 5 miles from where I
live.
About a year I went to see them with a load of relays etc. to see if they
had any old stock, or modern replacement parts..they didn't. They were quite
helpful, but of no practical use!

They did say that some of the components could easily be fixed by a
competent electrician with a few cheap, standard items, but that rules me
out!

Chris P DOC UK

----- Original Message -----
From: <njp548_at_dml_aol.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 5:43 PM
Subject: [DML] Pektron webpage...


Hey List,

    I was bored the other night and since I had the blue relay that was
supposed to control the cooling fans right here near my computer, I decided
to do a search on yahoo!  to see what I could find on the manufacturer of
this relay..."Pektron".  After the search came through, the second search
result was for the UK based Pektron company.

http://www.pektron.co.uk/

[moderator snip]



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Message: 23
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 02:35:50 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: AC Compressor wont come on

If you have an insufficient about of Freon in your system the compressor will not operate. Bring your DeLorean to your local reliable auto AC shop and have them check the AC system freon contente and possible leaks.

DMC Joe

"We're here to help you"

DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>
Web Site: <http://www.deloreanservices.com"> DeLorean services.com
www.DMC.tv is in your future .....

[moderator snip]



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Message: 24
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:41:20 +0100
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: Press photo / Article

I am trying to get one of "computer literate" club members to do it for me!

Chris P DOC UK.....only very basic.......limey........former colonialist...


----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 5:05 PM
Subject: RE: [DML] Press photo / Article


> How about scanning and uploading to DMCNEWS web site so us Yanks or
> Colonists can see it.
>
> Scott Mueller

[moderator snip]

> In today's (UK)  Daily Express ( 13th June 2001) newspaper, there is a
> half page feature, with nice photo about our beloved DeLoreans...

[moderator snip]



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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:50:58 +0100
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: Euro front plate holder

Luke,

In the UK there is no specific holder, as our licence plates are longer than
yours, most people just drill 2 holes right through the bumper ( facia ),
but I did not want to do that with my previously un-registered, "Dusty", so
I used very strong "Velcro" ( as people at the giants causeway photo-shoot
will know).

You could just use strong double-sided tape, but this sometimes , slips, or
is very difficult to remove later.

Go with Velcro, I used Black for the bit on the car, and white on the back
of the plate.

It has the advantage that you can keep adding a bit more if you feel the
adhesion is not good enough.

Works for me.

Chris P DOC UK



----- Original Message -----
From: "L Sandel" <ls_at_dml_chickencow.csv.cmich.edu>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 7:04 PM
Subject: [DML] Euro front plate holder


> Hello list,
>
> Does anybody know of a source for a front license plate holder for Euro
> plates?

[moderator snip]



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