From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 608
Date: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:13 AM

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There are 8 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Acceleration Problems,

2. Re: High idle speed

3. Re: tempurature and malfunctioning tach

4. Fuel Gauge

5. RE: Freon direct replacements
From: "Buckner, William" <>

6. Re: Freon direct replacements

7. Re: Freon direct replacements

8. A/C refrigrant, some answers

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 02:18:12 -0000
Subject: Re: Acceleration Problems,

The first thing to check is the frequency valve. It should be buzzing 
like an angry hornet on the right side valve cover. This is the fuel 
enrichment circuit and if it isn't working it makes accelerating 
difficult. The usual culprit is the lambda relay which provides power 
to the circuit and has a tendency to fail.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., dmc12_at_dml_b... wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have an auto 81 DeLorean and when I drive it after about 1/2 an 
> hour of driving I can no longer press the accelerator to the floor 
> without the engine dying. It does not stop completely but it is as 
> I have let go of the accelerator, as I lift my foot back up it 
> suddenly picks up again? The tank is full of fuel and is there is no 
> debris in the tank as I cleaned it earlier this year. This was the 
> first time I had driven the car for over 30-45 mins as I have only 
> just started driving it since my 21st birthday.
> Any help would be appreciated,
> James RG
> England.


Message: 2
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 02:13:12 -0000
Subject: Re: High idle speed

Make sure that the throttle cable isn't sticking and that the throttle 
spool is moving all of the way to idle. Check at the idle position 
that the idle micro is clicking on when the throttle is returning to 
idle. It seems like there is a delay in the idle system comming on.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Arne Hofmann (Beta LAYOUT GmbH)" 
<arne.hofmann_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> Hello,
> when I start my car I have a high idle speed of about 2000RPM
> for about 20 seconds until it comes down to about 800RPM.
> Unfortunatly there is no difference, when when the engine is warm
> or hot.
> I measured the thermistor - about 1-2kOhm in warm condition - s
> 1o the thermistor is doing fine. All connections are ok. Any ideas ?
> Thanks
> Arne
> VIN4949
> Beta LAYOUT GmbH
> Feldstrasse 2
> 65326 Aarbergen
> Tel.: 0049 6120 907010
> Fax.: 0049 6120 907014
> arne.hofmann_at_dml_p...


Message: 3
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 02:47:28 -0000
Subject: Re: tempurature and malfunctioning tach

The things you mention are relativly superficial and "easily" cured. 
There are many more important things to look for in buying a "D" that 
will cost a lot more to fix like rusted out areas of the frame, 
leaking radiator, worn clutch, Zillas, recalls, upgrades, etc. Your 
best bet would be to find a local Delorean club and get someone who 
can lok pver the car for you. You can't expect to buy a 20 year old 
used car and not have to spend some money on it. Just tires alone 
could cost over $500. Replacing all of the hoses and belts, tune-up 
and oil change could cost $$$. Realistically in your first year of 
ownership even doing the work yourself could cost $1-2000 depending on 
how much you want to do and how much was done already. Try to find out 
who the current owner delt with as that Delorean vender may have 
records as to what was done to the car or at least what the owner 
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Cameron Putsch" <putsch.1_at_dml_o...> wrote:
> I am going to look at an 82 dmc with 27k on it which is a strait, 
clean, turnkey car, however the tach is said to work half the time and 
the water temp stays at 200 degrees. What do you all think it would 
take to fix the tach(money and time wise too) and what do you think 
about the temp, is this a scary thing on a stock D or is this not that 
bad and would be fine with a lower temp fan switch and 
thermostat(perhaps the thermostat is stuck half open? Other than that 
I have to beleive the car is exactly as it should be. This is the 
second time I sent this mesage, becasue the first time I didn't get a 
response. I will greatly appreciate it if someone could give me some 
> Thanks, Casey at putsch.1_at_dml_o...
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 4
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:01:32 EDT
Subject: Fuel Gauge


The fuel gauge is not quite working right, only reading 1/2 full, and maybe 
under that (when the tank gets there.) Would there be a way to fix this 
simply or is there more to it? Thanks a lot!

John Feldman
VIN 4275

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 5
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 14:19:51 -0400
From: "Buckner, William" <>
Subject: RE: Freon direct replacements

I converted to R134A with a $50 kit from Wal-Mart last month and am very
happy.  Our hot days (90 max) here in Michigan are not a real big deal, but
the Delorean inside gets hot.  (Side Clue... put windows nearly all the way
up to obtain cool enough temperature.)  Their adapter/connector for the fill
side was leaking a little when done, so I removed it and tagged R134A on the
car.  I also replaced both schrader valve inserts prior to refill of R134A.
That was the source of my slow leak.  Just follow the instructions
completely on the kit. Before everyone blasts me about the lower efficiency,
I am aware and chose to minimize the environmental impact and financial

Doing my part for the world. 

Vin # 11268

Bill Buckner

Instrumentation Supervisor
Electrical and Instrument Dept.
Pfizer, Inc.
Global Manufacturing
Holland, MI Facility
   %   Phone:  616-392-2375  x-2449
 *   Fax:      616-392-8267
     *  Email:

-----Original Message-----
From: John L. Rahn []
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 11:45 AM
Subject: [DML] Freon direct replacements

Since freon is hard to find, does anyone have any experience with 
the "so-called" direct freon replacements?  

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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 21:56:57 EDT
Subject: Re: Freon direct replacements

I converted my 91 truck over to the new puron or what ever it called and I 
don't like it. It takes to long to cool down if at all in Texas.
John hervey


Message: 7
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 02:35:08 -0000
Subject: Re: Freon direct replacements

The EPA does not recognize any "drop in" replacements for R-12 meaning 
that there is nothing which you can use to "top off" the system if you 
have R-12 in it. You must remove all of the R-12 (capturing it to send 
for recycling)  and replace with whatever susbstitute you choose. 
There are many substitutes but none will equal the capacity that R-12 
can provide without major modifacations to the system. Many shops no 
longer have R-12 in stock because of the high cost ($60 a pound). Find 
a large shop or one that does classic cars, there are still some 
around, or call a supplier that the A/C contractors use (look in the 
phone book) and they can tell you who is still doing R-12 service 
work. You must be EPA certified to do R-12 work so many shops get 
around that by not using R-12 anymore. Be aware that some of the 
substitutes use propane or butane and are not to be used in mobile 
applications. Many of the substitutes are just blends of several 
different freons and as they leak the system will do funny things as 
the different freons tend to leak at different rates. The high side 
(head) pressures will also be higher causing the system to run hotter 
which deteriorates things like hoses and seals faster. The bottom line 
is after you do all of your homework the best option is to stay with 
R-12 for as long as you can. The only drawback to staying with R-12 is 
that it is a little more expensive to recharge with.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "John L. Rahn" <john_rahn_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> Since freon is hard to find, does anyone have any experience with 
> the "so-called" direct freon replacements?


Message: 8
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 19:36:04 -0000
Subject: A/C refrigrant, some answers

[MODERATOR'S NOTE: The Freon vs R-134, etc discussion seems to come up every summer when the temperatures warm up a bit. This topic has a lot of coverage in the archives, and although it is informative, has little that is DeLorean-specific. Further posts on this (if any) will be scrutinized for content that is specific to the DeLorean.]

I thought I might be able to answer few questions on the A/C 
refrigerant topic.

R-134a: In order to convert to it you will need to replace the 
following; All rubber gasket/seals (R-134a will eat away at the 
original ones that were designed for the R-12 over time), the 
Drier/Accum (since the old one will have R-12 oil in it) and the 
valves....that's all you need to do. If you want to take it one step 
further change the Orifice tube, there is a new redesigned one 
especially for R-134a that is a "variable valve" orifice tube that 
will make it colder believe it or not. The one that's in the system 
now is a standard fixed orifice tube.  It's not wrong that someone 
would recommend replacing the compressor and the evaporator since 
professionals recommend it. By replacing the compressor to one that 
is designed to handle the R-134a, you will make the system more 
efficient…same thing if you replace the evaporator to a larger one 
with the same BTU rating. Yes the R-134a requires higher pressure but 
it shouldn't damage any components unless it is over-
charged/incorrectly done. 

There is a new alterative to the R-12 out now that is better than the 
R-134a and requires less pressure and is much colder and cheaper, 
It's called FR-12. From what I understand the R-12 in a few years 
will be completely phased out and a lot of refrigeration/ A/C 
mechanics are moving away from it since it's getting more expensive 
and harder to obtain. You will still need a licensed A/C technician 
to do the job, it's not for sale over the counter.

Here's some text from a website I found on the net regarding the 
conversion to FR-12:

"To convert a properly functioning automotive R-12 system to FRIGC 
(FR-12), an installer must: 

Recover and recycle the R12; 
Evacuate the system (for approximately 30-45 minutes); 
Add approx. 2 oz. of Ester (POE) oil 
Charge the system to approximately 80 to 90% of the R12 capacity and 
install the under-hood "system identification retrofit label". 
Install retrofit fittings on the high and low side service ports; 

It's that simple! In some cases, it may be necessary to adjust the 
cycling pressure switch on CCOT systems for optimum performance."

For more info:

And here is more information on converting to R-134a, they give some 


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