From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 620
Date: Saturday, July 07, 2001 4:30 AM

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There are 23 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: front brake calipers

2. Re: weird hissing noise

3. Re: (wasHeat test) Cooling Fans

4. Re: Automatic interior light
From: "Jan van de Wouw" <>

5. Re: Incorrect Voltage Reading
From: "DMC Joe" <>

6. Re: still problems with cooling
From: "DMC Joe" <>

7. Re: Heat test
From: "K Creason" <>

8. RE: Heat test
From: "Mike Griese" <>

9. Good address for JZD?
From: Joe Fedeli <>

10. R-12 -Vs- 134-a

11. Re: Heat test
From: "B Benson" <>

12. Re: Re: (wasHeat test) Cooling Fans
From: "G Ryerson" <>

13. RE: Re: (wasHeat test) Cooling Fans
From: "Mike Griese" <>

14. cleaning trans filter
From: "Walter" <>

15. RPM's
From: "Cameron Putsch" <>

16. Re: Hot Start

17. Looking for KS/OK owners

18. Re: front brake calipers

19. 4600 mile delorean for sale outright
From: Michael Pike <>

20. Delorean Vin#000570

21. WTB: Right-hand knee pad, black

22. Re: Re: front brake calipers
From: Mike Hirko <>

23. Re: Good address for JZD?

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 18:26:05 -0000
Subject: Re: front brake calipers

I was told that I had to replace the entire calipers because they 
could not just replace the striped out screws...  That's where the 
$250 comes in.
Is it possible to just replace the screws ? or is this place just 
trying to get me to spend more money ?

The master cylinder shouldn't be bad cause I had that replaced last 

Jim Teston #15314

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., srubano_at_dml_o... wrote:
> The only way the bleader screws would be stripped out is by a 
> careless mechanic who bled the system. They sometimes use to much 
> force and when the strip them, they don't bother to replace them 
> (even though they cost only a few dollars). 
> Are your calipers and/or master cylinder bad?? Make sure that there 
> isn't any air in the brake shouldn't cost you $250 to 
> replace bleeder screws and bleed the system.
> Steve


Message: 2
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 18:34:12 -0000
Subject: Re: weird hissing noise

DMC Joe,
The key buzzer is disconnected, so that's not what is causing it.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Jim,
> Disconnect your key buzzer and see if the noise disappears.


Message: 3
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 19:51:05 -0000
Subject: Re: (wasHeat test) Cooling Fans

Although I agree with Dave Swingle this exercise was not without 
merit. In an extreme case if the cooling fans were to fail at least 
the list now has the knowledge that you could sustain cooling if you 
can keep the foward motion of the car above 35-40 mph. This could be 
usefull in an emergency and could be a good "get home" tip. To carry 
this to a further logical conclusion maybe Fanzilla could be speed 
controlled so that above a certain speed it could cycle 1 and then 2 
fans off. Admittidly this would involve complicating the electrical 
circuit but with the level of quality that the Zilla products have I 
would be very confident in it. On automatics it would be easy, it just 
has to know when you are in 3rd gear! And if there was a Transzilla it 
could be a plug in affair.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> I have to respectfully disagree here. 
> This seems to me to be a particularly ill-advised modification. 
> Anything that would require the operator to remember to turn the 
> back on after a highway run is just asking for expensive trouble. 
> way the DeLorean is supposed to work, i.e. where the fans run when 
> needed as called for by the Otterstat, OR when the Air conditioner 
> on, is SOP for every car I've seen that uses electric fans. 
> If you have an overheating problem, fix it, don't wire around it. 


Message: 4
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:21:08 -0000
From: "Jan van de Wouw" <>
Subject: Re: Automatic interior light

--- In dmcnews "Walter" wrote:
> > Well, My lights go right out when I close the door.
> > What does that mean?
> It means you had your door open for longer than 12 seconds. 
> Try opening your door and then closing it again immediately. 
> The light should stay on for a few seconds.

I was so fed up with this stupid delay that I installed an aftermarket 
one in my car... The first one I had in there was purely analog, 
causing it to operate the exact opposite of original: if I had the 
doors open for a couple of seconds (rainy day) it would only delay for 
about 5 secs, had they been open for more that 16 secs I would get a 
full 23 second delay, with a fade at the end. Since it was analog it 
also faded faster with both interior lights on...

The second one I bought was a digital setup, I could set the delay 
anywhere between 5 and 70 seconds using a screwdriver to set a 
potentiometer... Since it was digital I had trouble with my 
alarm-setup; it would cause false triggers because of the internal 
transistors not fully blocking current...

I plan on installing a relay, controlled by the delay now, to let the 
lights shut off and not interfere with my alarm...

All these modifications can be done to the car without cutting any 
wires; I did my first two with spade connectors in the socket for the 
original delay. You can see a pic of this on
You can also see a part of the other modifications I have made.

When I have my relay-idea worked out I'll post some other pictures...
Good luck,

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

check out the Delorean-Files at:


Message: 5
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:10:55 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: Incorrect Voltage Reading


Your low voltage reading at the dash voltage is an indication of a "voltage drop" somewhere in the electrical system. To correct this problem thoroughly clean the three main ground connections. Follow this by removing and cleaning all of the fuses in the fuse box, it might be easier to just purchase a complete set of fuses.

After completing all of the above repeat the voltage tests. Sample the voltage at various components inside the electrical compartment. If all the readings match the alternator reading but the dash voltage is low than you probably have a low reading dash voltmeter.

DMC Joe 
"We're here to help you"
DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <>

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Declan Kelly 
  To: '' 
  Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 10:01 AM
  Subject: [DML] Incorrect Voltage Reading 

  Hi All
  Any time I ask a question I like to start with a big thank you to
  all the group. You guys are the best. 
  With my fans and lights on, I see my voltage meter reading very low
  9v. I am worried that I would loose power completely. I had replaced the
  alternator with a higher ampage one. But this is the weird thing, If I but
  an multimeter on the battery I get 14.5v, at the same time I have only 9v
  on the dash gauge ? Am I testing my voltage from the wrong location.


Message: 6
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:25:48 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: still problems with cooling


Scott, You are correct about the circuit breakers getting hot but you said: 

"Then, while driving, you can reach the breaker and feel that it is getting

I wanted to add to Scotts statement that both circuit breakers, especially the cool fan breaker, can be very hot to the touch. Take caution when touching the circuit breakers to prevent burning your finger tips.
DMC Joe 
"We're here to help you"
DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <>

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Scott Mueller 
  Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 8:59 AM
  Subject: RE: [DML] still problems with cooling

  That clicking is likely the breaker tripping.
  Leave the relay compartment panel off, and clean the spade connectors.
  Then, while driving, you can reach the breaker and feel that it is getting
  hot.  Recently, I posted about this problem


Message: 7
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:41:57 -0500
From: "K Creason" <>
Subject: Re: Heat test

I thought the fans did turn themselves off after about 25 mph.....
I run AC most all the time (it's 90 and humid here in Houston), and the fans
run; I can hear them at the stop lights. Then I start going and I hear them
until about 25-30 mph and it seems like they kick off, though I don't really
feel any performance/ engine change, and I'm not sure that I would with the
AC still going.
Maybe I'm just going deaf.
Or does anyone have an idea of something wrong?

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:42 PM
Subject: [DML] Heat test

> Group, We all know what can happen when a car overheats and the De
> Lorean is no exception. I have always heard that if you get over
> about 35 to 40 MPH the cooling fans are no longer drawing air because
> the out side air due to speed is forcing it's self thru the radiator
> and cooling the water. 


Message: 8
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:42:19 -0500
From: "Mike Griese" <>
Subject: RE: Heat test

Isn't that the otterstat?


-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Ryan []
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [DML] Heat test


I think you are doing great things for our community. 
However, I wonder about the fan cut-off switch on the
Fan Fix.  It seems to do two things that I question.


Now, if you could devise a temp controlled automatic
"turn-back-on" switch, I'd say you have something.


Message: 9
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 16:48:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Fedeli <>
Subject: Good address for JZD?

Does any one have a good current address for JDZ to obtain his autograph
since his move from NJ.  Please contact me directly.  Thanks!
Joe Fedeli
Voice Mail: 1-888-392-4832 ext.800-441-1837
Fax: 1-888-392-4832 ext. 800-441-1837*

Send a cool gift with your E-Card


Message: 10
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 00:07:47 -0000
Subject: R-12 -Vs- 134-a

Hello List,

I deiced to post this as there has been a lot of R-12 -Vs- 134-a 
pertaining to the A/C. More specifically the cooling temp of the 2 
gasses. I have however had my D's A/C running off R-12 and now 134-A. 
I will say this the 134-A is every bit as cold as the R-12 if not 
colder. In fact the 134-A blows so cold that I get condensation on 
the out side of my front windshield (just above the air ducts on my 
dash) up to 80F then it goes away. Also In the middle of the 
afternoon in the 80F to 90F I have to turn my A/C fan speed down 
because it get so cold in my car. The conversion I did was well worth 
it and cost under $450. What I did to convert over to the 134-A from 
the R-12 was as Follows.

1. Have the old R-12 and oil purged and captured by a A/C Shop. ( YOU 

2. Replace the old R-12 Fitting with the new 134-A fittings. (these 
are located on top of your A/C Compressor)

3. Replace all of the old black R-12 O-rings with new green 134-A O-
Rings. (I got these from Grady's)

4. Replace the old condenser with a new one.( Your condenser is 
located in front of your radiator. The new condenser has brass 
fittings and are not as prone to stripping if you ever have to 
disconnect the lines from it. Also it has 2 rows instead of the 
standard one row. Again I got this from Grady's)

5. Replaced the accumalater/dryer. ( I got this from Grady's as well )

6. Made sure all the connection where tight, BUT NOT TOO TIGHT.

7. Had the system vacuumed down.

8. Charged the A/C with 2.2 LBS of 134-A (One of the cans I put in 
had leak detecter in it. I did this because I thought If I ever have 
a leak in the future it would make it a lot easier to find.

Well, that's it and that's what I have to say about the R-12 -Vs- 134-
A thing. I hope this help any of you contenplating the change over. 
Again this is from my experience so I know it works great, at least 
it does with my car.

Thanks And God Bless...

  82 DMC
__         __
VIN # 10694
Dec-81 build


Message: 11
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:11:58 -0700
From: "B Benson" <>
Subject: Re: Heat test

I went though high temp problems with my car a few years ago. High speeds
didn't really bring the temp down to a comfortable level. When I pulled the
radiator to replace it with a triple core metal tanked one I discovered that
about 30% of the cooling fins were plugged with debris that had been picked
up over several years of cross country driving. The cooling fins in the AC
evaporator are spaced further apart than the radiators. Junk, bugs, weeds,
and so on, pass through the evaporator fins and lodge in the radiator. You
can't see this because of the evaporator and the fan shroud. The only way to
tell for sure is to pull the radiator. I always flushed the radiator from
the front side but that didn't seem to be enough. You really can't get a
good shot at it through the narrow front opening. I thought I'd mention this
as a possible reason for high temps if all else fails to solve the problem.
I really don't think switching the fans on and off manually is a viable
solution. If just sounds like an easy way to try to circumvent
 fixing a problem cooling system.

Bruce Benson


Message: 12
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 23:29:30 -0400
From: "G Ryerson" <>
Subject: Re: Re: (wasHeat test) Cooling Fans

Sorry for being so windy here, but that is the way engineers are.

Regarding the installation of a cutoff switch in the cooling fan circuit:

In order to understand why most, if not all, cars are arranged to have the
electric cooling fans on all the time when the air conditioning it is
necessary to consider the following.

The radiator size in a given car is determined by the maximum amount of heat
it will ever need to get rid of: Death Valley on a hot day in July for
example. The water in the engine cooling system can store up a great deal of
heat without changing temperature a lot. This characteristic will take care
of many situations where there is minimal air flowing through the radiator
from the motion of the car. These considerations mean that under almost all
other conditions the radiator is actually much larger than is necessary. The
fans then, are provided to take care cases of extreme cooling needs. To
leave them running all the time would result in excessive current usage,
excessive wear on the fan motor(s), and could result in overcooling the
coolant under certain conditions.

When we add air conditioning into the picture we have a somewhat different
situation. In this case the air conditioning is constantly ( or almost
constantly ) transferring heat from the interior of the car and into the
outside air through a device called the condensor. The AC condensor is
usually mounted in front of the cooling system radiator. This is because
good efficiency of the AC depends on the condensor getting a large amount of
the coolest possible air. Therefore the electric cooling fans are left on at
all times when the AC is on.

Interestingly there will many times be no apparent ill effects if the
electric cooling fan(s) are off when the AC is on. What happens in these
cases though is that the temperature of the AC condensor rises a LOT:
sometimes to as much as 300 degrees fahrenheit or more. What this results in
is VERY high pressures in the high pressure side of the AC system. Some
systems, but not all, have high pressure cutoff switches to prevent damage
in these cases. What you will experience when the high pressure cutoff
operates is that the cold air output will become warm / hot over a period of
30 seconds or so due to the AC compressor being shut down.

In any case it is a bad thing to be running the AC without the electric
cooling fans running.

George Ryerson
Akron Ohio ( Yellow '83 )


Message: 13
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 21:03:40 -0500
From: "Mike Griese" <>
Subject: RE: Re: (wasHeat test) Cooling Fans

wrong Wrong WRONG!  If your car is overheating
STOP!!!  No ifs ands or buts.  You don't know
WHY the car is overheating.  It could be the
water pump, a void in the cooling system, a blown
hose, or plugged up radiator vanes.  A blown
head gasket or a warped head are just not worth it.


-----Original Message-----
From: []
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 2:51 PM
Subject: [DML] Re: (wasHeat test) Cooling Fans

Although I agree with Dave Swingle this exercise was not without 
merit. In an extreme case if the cooling fans were to fail at least 
the list now has the knowledge that you could sustain cooling if you 
can keep the foward motion of the car above 35-40 mph. This could be 
usefull in an emergency and could be a good "get home" tip. 


Message: 14
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 23:48:23 -0400
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: cleaning trans filter

After I drained my fluid and dropped my pan, I took a digital picture of the
filter with its attached magnet.  Some filtrate is to be expected, but I
would like some second opinions.  For those of you who are familiar with
what a normal transmission change should be like, give me your opinion about
what you see on this filter magnet.  Is it a reasonable amount for what
should accumulate after 12,600 original miles?

The photo is at:

Walt    Tampa, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: <>
>Your magnets will only capture steel and cast iron particles. The
>filter is meant to keep out the big chunks and any friction materiel
>which is a natural by product of the aging of the automatic
>transmission, not metal. You should not expect to catch much metal,
>especially magnetic, although you will see flecks of brass and bronze
>from the thrust washers as they wear normally. If you find large
>amounts of friction materiel or any significant amount of magnetic
>particles the transmission is nearing the time for a rebuild.
and Yikes!
-----Original Message-----
From: <>
>It's not a good thing to find metal flakes on that magnet especially
>for an automatic transmission! Those flakes are from the gears which
>mean they are grinding and wearing out.
and Yikes again!  So how bad does mine look?


Message: 15
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:10:13 +0200
From: "Cameron Putsch" <>
Subject: RPM's

to those of you talking about engines and their safe reve limit, the number of cylinders has little to do with how much they rev. For instance a big displacement 6.6 liter trans am v-8's redline is probally not even 5 grand however a ferrari v-12 3 liter motors have been built to rev well past 8 grand and my 2 stroke 100cc yamaha kart engine gets reved to 15 grand all the time. So the moral of this story is you can build almost any motor to rev high, number of cylinders does not mean different rev limits, and redlines are often times inversly proportional to displacement.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 16
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 22:41:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Hot Start

Could your hot start problem be the check valve in the fuel pump?
Just a thought.
Jim Sawyer
vin 4149
"ELMO", cause it's red

Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at


Message: 17
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 03:12:32 -0000
Subject: Looking for KS/OK owners

Hello all,

I'm interesting in emailing/phone conversing with any Delorean owners 
located in Kansas or Oklahoma. Still working on my own VIN which gets 
closer everyday. I've been reading the list for quite some time and 
don't hear of many in this area. Hopefully someone will prove me 
wrong. Please reply privately via email. Thanks!

Matt Metzinger
VIN soon?


Message: 18
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 03:23:04 -0000
Subject: Re: front brake calipers

Taking that there is nothing wrong with the calipers and only the 
bleeder screws (the boxed end where the wrench goes on) is stripped 
then can just replace the bleeder screws. If the pistons 
inside the calipers are binding then you need to replace/rebuild 
them. I am assuming right now that you only have air in your system 
and everything is in good condition and this is why the mechanic was 
trying to remove the bleeders. Bleeder screws are very common thing 
to find and you can get them from any of the Delorean vendors or good 
auto parts store! They are only a few dollars and are very easy to 
install. Bleeding the brakes isn't that difficult either and can be 
done easily with an assistant, a length of rubber tubing and a small 
jar....or you can get one of those one man brake bleeder kits. :)


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., orentha_at_dml_h... wrote:
> I was told that I had to replace the entire calipers because they 
> could not just replace the striped out screws...  That's where the 
> $250 comes in.
> Is it possible to just replace the screws ? or is this place just 
> trying to get me to spend more money ?


Message: 19
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:33:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Pike <>
Subject: 4600 mile delorean for sale outright

Let me tell ya something about Ebay bidders... they
are unreliable, and nothing but a bunch of liars...

My car is right now at 15.1K - I get an email from a
guy offering straight cash for it for 14K, and says he
cannot go any higher because he can't afford it... yet
when I do a lookup, its the same guy with the 15.1
bid... this tells me the guy isn't going to even pay.

Not to mention - because I was being honest, I said it
had the Duce altenator in it, and thatit went out
twice, and I had it rebuilt.... he gets all pissy "if
it only has 4600 miles on it why would the alternator
go out?"  I explained to him the delorean caveats -
and he gets all ticked off...

Anyhow, its still on ebay - but I will sell it
outright to a list member if they want it, just make
an offer on it.. and please have the money if you
do.... I am sick of having to explain to people about
these cars.. they seem to think that nothing should go
wrong with them, so I try to be honest.... maybe
that's wrong of me I dont know...

anyhow, if interested email me at - for what its worth, I have a
full carfax report on it as well... it's linked to the
ebay description.... I'd rather take a little less and
give it to someone who isn't going to flip out, or not
come through then to have to go through what I am
gonna have to go through if I dont get the money.


PS - I need to settle my financial matter by Tuesday
of next week... I priced moving it, its less than
$1000 to Florida (picked a far away state), with
50,000 in coverage.  So if you are closer to NM than
FL it should be cheaper.

Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail


Message: 20
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 04:08:13 -0000
Subject: Delorean Vin#000570

As I have been signing off after posting a message on the DML for 
years Now, with Vin # 000570 as my sign off,I recently picked up a 
digital camera,so I took a pic of Vin#000570 door vin plate and 
posted it in the DML files,as this is the lowest "active" vin on the 
DML that I know of,and I just wanted the DML to know that vin#000570 
is for real,and truly exists,and is not a fiction of my imagination.

(pic in file section)

"Vin plate for 000570 3.JPG "


Message: 21
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 04:14:22 -0000
Subject: WTB: Right-hand knee pad, black

I am looking to purchase a used, good condition, black right-hand 
knee pad.  Mine was recovered in a very poor match for the delorean 
black vinyl.  If you're looking to recover yours due to a custom 
cosmetic project (i.e. changing your interior color) then please 
consider a swap.  I'll willing to swap plus pay for all shipping fees 
and then some.  Please email me privately at shirazcupala(AT)



Message: 22
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 21:43:39 -0700
From: Mike Hirko <>
Subject: Re: Re: front brake calipers

Everyone seems to be fixated on the stripped bleeder screws only. Is it
possible that the threads in the calipers are stripped out and that is why
the calipers need to be replaced?

Mike Hirko
Kelso   WA
VIN  1387


Message: 23
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 00:46:40 EDT
Subject: Re: Good address for JZD?


I asked that question of Mike the other day when he mentioned that he had 
been to JZD's old farm.  Noone answered.  If anyone knows please share it.  
If it is shared, then anyone who reads it must be respectful of Mr. D's 

vin 16509

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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