From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 622
Date: Monday, July 09, 2001 5:37 AM

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There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Heat test

2. Re: Delorean Vin#000570
From: "Chris Parnham" <>

3. Cams

4. A delorean Omen
From: Michael Pike <>

5. Re: A delorean Omen

6. Re: Delorean Vin#000570

7. Re: A delorean Omen

8. Transmission updates...
From: "Jim Strickland" <>

9. FAN RELAYS AND WIRING (Was: Subject: Re: fans run continuously, strange wiring)
From: "Stian Birkeland" <>

10. Re: Transmission updates...

11. Re: FAN RELAYS AND WIRING (Was: Subject: Re: fans run continuously, str...

12. Re: Cams
From: "Aaron King" <>

13. rotors

14. Re: Delorean Vin#000570
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

15. Re: A delorean Omen
From: "Scott Cagle" <>

16. Bedminster Estate.

17. DeLorean Car Show Rooms

18. Console Panel

19. Fuel Tank Supplier (Was: Delorean Vin#000570)
From: "Stian Birkeland" <>

20. think you have otterstat problems?

21. Re: Good address for JZD?

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 07:34:13 -0000
Subject: Re: Heat test

Scott, and others. 1st I would like to thanks all you who made 
comments about my post. Look like I got everyone all stirred up and 
in a constructive way, that and the comments is what makes new 
products. If yall,(That's Texas for you all) remember several months 
back about the hot start relay, boy did that get everyone thinking. 
The thing I told everyone was, when your stranded in the desert and 
can't get the car started, It would be nice to have a hot start relay 
in the tool box for the emergency. Normally you can even find the 
acuumulator, much less any one who can find it or fix it. I also get 
calls from all over the country about problems people are having or 
not having. The issue had come to me several times about the fan 
circuit and the way it was wired. Knowing that most people can't 
rewire the car to retro fit something new, or drilling and tapping a 
hold to install a new sensor,the mechanical switch was thought of. 
The reason for it was, you have everything turned on, and your 
driving long distance at night and the battery isn't charging because 
you still have the old alternator. So to prevent the no starting when 
you kill the engine, Just cut off the fans when not needed to 
conserve power. Watch your charging gauge go up when the fans are not 
running. As you most know, they are the largest robber of power in 
the car. Yes, I even forget my key's, so it's not for everyone, or 
the mentally challenged, or the weak at heart, but in case of 
emergency, I think people should know it can be done and the car will 
do fine IF everything is in order. Mostly the radiator isn't stopped 
up. The otterstat only turnes the fans on when the car coolant system 
heats it up to trip the switch. In cooler weather, sometimes my fans 
never come on. But, if you turn on the air conditioner, for what ever 
reason, they come on untill the low pressure sensor switch turnes off 
the compressor. Only if the sensor switch is bad or the car has been 
rewired will the fans stay on all the time. If you can read a circuit 
diagram the placement of the wire that energizes the fan relay is 
after the low pressure switch. To sum up, air flow about 35 miles per 
hour and up will render the fans drawing of air usless. Yes they will 
still be turning some due to air flow, but there will be no current 
or voltage going thru the brushes which will help deteriorate them 
faster. But, the main reason was to kill off the fans when not needed 
if your system isn't charging. Thanks againg for all the comments, 
and I am looking into a air flow device that is easy to fit on the 
car for any one. Please also remember, there are 1100 + members of 
this group but 6000 average cars on the street, and of the 1100, more 
than likley there is less than 200 to 300 active and even less vocal. 
Thanks again, Sometimes I feel like Doc on BTTF.
John Hervey

    --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> John,
> Good point about the fans.  How about putting a speed sensor in the 
> That way the fans will still be automatic and you will not have to 
> about them not coming on when needed.
> Scott Mueller
> DMCNEWS 002981
> DOA 5031
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dherv10_at_dml_a... [mailto:dherv10_at_dml_a...]
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:42 PM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_y...
> Subject: [DML] Heat test


Message: 2
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:13:14 +0100
From: "Chris Parnham" <>
Subject: Re: Delorean Vin#000570

Ref early vins,

Although "Dusty" is "officially" vinned as 12176, May 82, as many of the
DeLorean experts at Eurofest agreed, it has many early features.....I've now
found out why!

There is a date sticker beneath the "fury" ash tray thingy with the date
29th Jan 81!  Second day of production!

I will post a photo to the DOC website in the next week or so.

The Right Hand Drive cars were taken off the production line at various
stages for the conversions to be done..but day 2 eh?

Chris P  DOC UK

----- Original Message -----
From: "evan" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] Delorean Vin#000570

> Just thought I'd let you know vin number 510 is road registered & living
> Sydney, Australia. It is owned by Tony Atkins, he seems to think it used
> be owned by John Holmes-a-court before he bought it. Thought you might be
> interested, Regards, Evan, vin 2672 also from the land of Oz.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 2:08 PM
> Subject: [DML] Delorean Vin#000570
> > As I have been signing off after posting a message on the DML for
> > years Now, with Vin # 000570 as my sign off,I recently picked up a
> > digital camera,so I took a pic of Vin#000570 door vin plate and
> > posted it in the DML files,as this is the lowest "active" vin on the
> > DML that I know of,and I just wanted the DML to know that vin#000570
> > is for real,and truly exists,and is not a fiction of my imagination.


Message: 3
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 08:09:11 EDT
Subject: Cams

Speaking of performance, there has got to be some European outfit who has 
developed performance cams or headers. Anyone lucky enough to have found any? 
I checked as it said in one old digest but there's nothing for 
the PRV6.


Message: 4
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:32:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Pike <>
Subject: A delorean Omen

Hey all...

As you know, I put my delorean up for sale on ebay,
and also on the list... I ran into a financial problem
that I could not (and still cant) get out of.

I took the Delorean out today for a final washing, and
a drive... and something happened...

As I sat in the garage and started it up, the battery
warning light was on (had the duce rebuilt twice
without it working), and wasn't charging....selling my
D has really, really hurt me.... and knowing the
alternator was bad, I was just going to run to the
carwash and I sat in the car, with the
sinking feeling someone probably has when they give a
child up for adoption, I said, "give me a sign if I am
making a mistake"... and I kid you not - the battery
warning light turned off, and the needle jumped to the
13 was like she was saying, "don't give me

This shook me up, and I took her out... I drove over
400 miles today - everything working great... the
alternator didnt even twitch with the lights on and a
heavy load.... I burned up over a half tank of gas
(and I knew that thanks to my tankzilla)... and as I
was driving, I realized that there is no way I could
ever get rid of this car, ever (well except when I
die, and it will goto my 6 year old then, because he
loves it as much as I do).... as I washed it at the
carwash, my awww just kept growing....and I am keeping

There are some things in life that cannot be replaced
- and that's loved ones, family members, maybe even
pets...and I came to the reality I will probably
never, ever get a car like this again... even if I got
a different D, this one is special to was my
first real "business contract" that bought it, it was
loved by the one owner before me, who I still talk
with on a regular basis, and it's loved by me.  And
nothing in the world makes me feel more proud of
myself than when I get to drive her....I feel like
someone as important as the president of the united
states.... and if the D was alive, I think she would
feel the same way about me....

I'm not a psycho or anything - but I can always
rebuild a credit report, and even if I can't - atleast
I will be a lousy credit profiler who is happy.

I've lost my contracts because of a legal dispute,
I've lost my business, but I still have my family, and
VIN 855 is a member of that family.... and Equifax
cannot take that away.


Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail


Message: 5
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 10:22:24 EDT
Subject: Re: A delorean Omen

Mike, If you look on my web site at the diagram for the alternator, You will 
see a light wire for the Ducy , You may just a loose connection at the 
connector level. But, you also know they were severely underated from the 
beginning. It should be replaced for a more reliable system and then keep the 
old Ducy for nastalga. 
Good Luck.
John hervey


Message: 6
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:05:42 EDT
Subject: Re: Delorean Vin#000570

In a message dated 07/08/2001 9:24:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, writes:

<< The Right Hand Drive cars were taken off the production line at various
 stages for the conversions to be done..but day 2 eh? >>

    In the documentary film "Start-up," John DeLorean ordered C. K.  
Bennington to start the RHD conversion immediately during a 1980 board 
    The initial plan would take DMC 12-14 months to start production of the 
RHD car. 
JZD wanted the cars retrofitted at the ports of entry in European markets.
    DMC was looking for substantially more sales than that in North America.  
DMC could not support the current overhead with the one car in North America. 
The RHD car was not a matter of something extra, it was a matter of pure 


Message: 7
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:05:14 EDT
Subject: Re: A delorean Omen

In a message dated 7/8/01 8:29:14 AM Central Daylight Time, writes:

> This shook me up, and I took her out... I drove over
> 400 miles today - everything working great... the
> alternator didnt even twitch with the lights on and a
> heavy load.... I burned up over a half tank of gas

 Delorean that gets 59.25 Miles per gallon? Are you sure that Tankzilla or 
your odometer is working correctly?
Ralph VIN 1606

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 8
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 00:00:14 +0800
From: "Jim Strickland" <>
Subject: Transmission updates...

I've recently come to the conclusion that my car *needs* more power, and I'm investigating engine replacement...  I'm looking into higher-revving engines, using the delorean transmission...

I can't seem to find in the archives- what the stock transmission is 'rated' for, HP-wise... Who knows?

Also- I remember that there was someone who replaces transmission parts with beefier, higher quality parts.  Who is this mystery person?  Also- putting in a higher-revving engine will necessitate changing the axle ratio.  Does anyone know if there are parts available to change the axle ratio to about 4?

Thanks for info...  
Jim  1537

PS- It's already been hit twice, on fire, and painted, so please spare me the restoration comments!


Message: 9
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:59:16 +0200
From: "Stian Birkeland" <>
Subject: FAN RELAYS AND WIRING (Was: Subject: Re: fans run continuously, strange wiring)

I can verify that exactly the same have happened to my DeLorean VIN# 06759.
When I got the car the plastic shroud covering the spade connection had already partially melted.
I do believe this has been caused by the underrated relays. One of the first thing I did to my DeLorean was to get the RELAY UPDATE KIT from DMC HOUSTON. 

I think this is the * MOST IMPORTANT* thing you can ever do to your DeLorean. If your relays haven't been updated/replaced I will go so far as to say that you're playing with the lives of yourself and your passengers. The stock relays which are underpowered can cause FIRE! So this area is not an area of which you can skip or delay your relay upgrade. If you haven't upgraded your relays do it ASAP. I don't want to read about the great fire...

After I upgraded mine, replaced the spade connection (and got the FanZilla from PJ GRADY I might add), I'm driving with confidence.

On a related subject - I've read about the posting of "which wire goes where" in regards to the two fan relays.
PLEASE - Can someone with a digital camera take a photo of the colored wires  that go into the two fan relays. Put it in the tech section! It's important to know this because new owners (incl. myself at the time!) tend to "leave things as they are", event though the previous owner(s) of the car may have messed things up and for instance played around with the wires in the relay comparment.

I don't think a single car from the DeLorean factory came with the wrong wiring setup to the fan relays. This is the work of previous owner(s) - and also maybe the reason why they sold their DeLorean to you! The DeLorean has a bad rumour concerning the electrical system. But its a good system - I think the troubles some are experiencing are due to previous owners.

So again - PLEASE someone take a photo or illustration of the fan relays and the wires, and their respective AUX and BAT position. That way anyone can check to see if their DeLorean is wired in the one and only way - THE CORRECT ONE!

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland

VIN # 06759

Message: 16
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 19:11:50 -0500
From: Todd Masinelli <>
Subject: Re: fans run continuously, strange wiring

One issue still remains, though.  After my fans were running for a while, I
reached into the relay compartment to feel for heat.  The fan fail jumper
was a little warm, as was the #112 fan relay (which I just replaced).  I
felt the N/O wire leading to the 40 amp breaker and it was cool, as was the
metal holding the breaker in place.  However, the B/O wire (which the wiring
diagram says should be N/S) was blazing hot.  The plastic shroud covering
the spade connection was hot enough to leave a red mark on my thumb.

What's the deal here?  That wire leads from the fan fail jumper to the
cooling fan breaker, right?  So between those two the wire is building up
resistance that somehow isn't being felt by the breaker or the other wire
leading from the breaker?  I don't understand.

Is there even a problem here?  If so, is it something that my eventual
purchase of a Fanzilla will fix?

Trying to learn and grateful for help,

Todd Masinelli
VIN 6681 (Nov 81)


Message: 10
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:31:17 EDT
Subject: Re: Transmission updates...

Jim, I have a single turbo car that DMC Houston put in about 10years ago. 
Warren said it was on of the fastest they knew of at the time. All I know is 
they said it was  200 hp +. The engine was tore down and new pistons 
installed. I also just put a new clutch disk, pressure plate in my daily 
driver car and it's only 9 3/8" disk. I don't know how long it will hold up 
if the car is hot rodded a lot. But the  mechanic that helped me said unless 
the bell housing is changed along with the flywheel there wan't much more I 
could do. The Centerforce clutch set up was discussed on the group a week or 
so ago and I think pretty well determined that the stock Valeo clutch set up 
was about the same. I have resolved to leave my De Loreans as original with 
the exception of modifications and if I want power, just look at the new 
Camaros. 325HP stock street legal $29,000.00. The D's were just not made for 
it.We just have to face it. You can see the Valeo clutch set up on my site 
under drive train.
Just a thought
John Hervey 


Message: 11
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 14:07:33 EDT
Subject: Re: FAN RELAYS AND WIRING (Was: Subject: Re: fans run continuously, str...

Stian, Out of all the relay's in the car, there are only two or three that 
are really marginal. That is the Fan Fail relay #1 and the Fan relay it's 
self and I would also
look at the head lights relay. Like any mechanical item, the contacts get 
dirty or corroded over years and need to be replaced. But normally, most will 
last a long time. The new 40 amp I use and sell for $7.95 are made by a 
little German company named Siemens. Due to the cost it's normally better to 
throw away the old ones and just replace them. But, they don't all need to be 
replaced. They are all enclosed and really impose no fire hazzard. If they 
don't work, they just simply don't work. It's the wires leading to them you 
have to watch out for. The thing you have to watch out for are the wires 
going into the relay sockets.  If the connections arn't tight and clean, then 
that can cause a electrical short, heat up the wires and start a melt down. 
Also, the device your plugging in needs to have as much contact with the 
mating connector as possible. You hear about the wires pushing down when a 
relay is installed. It's good to remove the two screws that hold in the 
relay's and also press in the connector from the bottom while holding the 
realy from the top. Then and only then are you assured that the contacts are 
making as much contact as possible. The less contact connection, then the 
less connector to carry the current. Remember, Clean and tight.on any 
electrical connection. That's also why I solder all my joints if possible. 
As far as the wiring, it's all in the wiring diagram. If your unable to read 
a wiring diagram, Yes, I have a complete wiring harness out of a original car 
I could photo and post on the web site if needed. Are you talking about 
underneath the relay's.
John Hervey
Home of the Fan Fix dual 2 x 2.


Message: 12
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:17:45 -0700
From: "Aaron King" <>
Subject: Re: Cams

I don't know of anyone that has a different set of cams to buy, but I know
of a company near where I live in Seattle that will do a performance grind
on the cams you already have.  I checked, and they have a profile for the
b28f engine.  The name is Delta Cams (  I think I'm going
to get it done as soon as I can either get someone who knows what they're
doing to help me with the cam removal, or gget enough money to pay someone
to do it for me.


Aaron King
Kirkland, WA

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 5:09 AM
Subject: [DML] Cams

> Speaking of performance, there has got to be some European outfit who has
> developed performance cams or headers. Anyone lucky enough to have found


Message: 13
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:14:16 EDT
Subject: rotors

I also need cross reference for disc brake rotors. Anybody?


Message: 14
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 22:36:13 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: Delorean Vin#000570 wrote:

> JZD wanted the [RHD] cars retrofitted at the ports of entry in European
> markets.

Only here in the UK do we drive on the left. The rest of Europe drive on the
right, like you. Differences in lights/indicators etc are minimal for the rest of



Message: 15
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:06:00 -0400
From: "Scott Cagle" <>
Subject: Re: A delorean Omen


Congratulations on your decision.  I know if the cards were down for me, I'd have the same problem making that decision.  You're right, some things can't be replaced.  And a DeLorean with an owners true appreciation is one of them.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 16
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 22:05:06 -0000
Subject: Bedminster Estate.

While I have no idea if it's a recent picture or not, you can get a 
good view of JZD's estate _at_dml_ Type in the address, and 
once the map comes up, select the tab at the top that says "Arieal 
Shot." Mapquest will then bring up a satilite photo. Just something I 
thought might be interesting for those folks who have wondered what 
the estate looks like (myself included).

567 Larrington Rd. 
Bedminster, NJ 07921

vin 6585

p.s. the clairity isn't the greatest in the world, but you can also 
use the feature to find most of you favorite DeLorean vendors as 
well. And while this is probably useless triva, the answer is yes. 
You can see a DeLorean from space.


Message: 17
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:08:36 EDT
Subject: DeLorean Car Show Rooms

My thanks to all of you that have registered so far for Graceland. 
As you may have guessed the Hotel (all 100 rooms) are sold out.
I am negotiating for a block of rooms at the Airport Raddison in Memphis.  
The Raddison is chosen because it is a secure hotel located on the airport 
property and patrolled by airport security making it attractive for those 
that stay there.  Don't worry about plane noise I have stayed there before 
and its fine.
It is rated in the top 20 of all Radisons and has recently been upgraded.
The area between the airport and Graceland is not the best of locations to 
leave a car so that is why I suggest this specific hotel. Beyond that 
Stateline RD about 20 minutes away is the next best site and the rooms are no 

It is easy to get to Graceland and is about 3 1/2 miles away so its a 5 
minute drive on two streets.

The Rates are probably going to be $89 for any size single or double room and 
I am waiting to post it officially until I get a contract.  
I will be updating the web page in a few days along with numbers to call and 
a contact name.  I am trying for around 50 to 80 rooms.  

The response is great in that it helps me plan better and I will be adding 
things based on the number of people.  

Pricing of each event will be similar to the Cleveland event with the tours 
and tech seminars of course being free.
There will be a tech seminar every day of the show except Sunday.  I also 
have a few surprises thrown in that I will not announce until much later 
pending group size.


If you want to register at the Radison before I post that is fine.  The 
information is on the net under Radisons web page. The toll free number gets 
you the nationwide reservations and not the hotel direct which I would 
prefere so I can keep track of those that register. So please contact Eric 
Davis at this point 901-332-2370. Tell him you are with the DeLorean Group

We will have another contact name shortly.
By the time these rooms fill up the show will basically be sold out.  I will 
cut off registrations at 400 because of fire codes at Graceland and the 
Hollywood Hotel and 200 for Sunday Brunch.

Thanks for your support and I will do my best to bring you the best in 
DeLorean entertainment.
<A HREF=""></A>


I am going to publish an article on my web page called my thoughts 
this show has completely caught me by surprise as to the size since I planned 
it before Cleveland and the numbers were at that time much smaller.
Its for your entertainment and you can see what I was thinking.  I may do 
something completely different but I jotted down my thought just to see how 
much this show has changed from the start.
that will be later this month or early August.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 18
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 22:59:51 -0000
Subject: Console Panel

I have noticed that there are several Deloreans...mine included,that 
seem to have mismathced holes around the Hazard Lights switch and the 
headlight switch (Holes are larger than the buttons).  Does anyone 
know if this is due to a plate from one model year combined with 
switched from another, or is this something that happened during 

Roy Reuter


Message: 19
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 23:07:14
From: "Stian Birkeland" <>
Subject: Fuel Tank Supplier (Was: Delorean Vin#000570)

Here in Norway, there is a DeLorean with a very low VIN number in the 
500-series, (558? can't remember right now) before the warranteed DeLoreans 
were sold.

I suspect this to be a DeLorean that was handed over to Dyno Industries here 
in Norway. Dyno was a major supplier to DMCL. Unfortunately, no-one at Dyno 
as of today remember about the project or the car. The plastic division was 
later sold to an american company called Walbro Automotive.

Those of you who know your history, will know that Dyno made the plastic 
fuel tank for the DeLorean. I'm proud to say that the DeLorean has a piece 
of Norwegian quality in it :)

I suppose Dyno had this car for testing and improvement etc. At the time 
being DMCL wanted a bigger fuel tank - 52 litres isn't that much, and early 
on the factory was concerned about the few miles the car could drive 
(compared to other cars) before you had to fill it with gas again.

Those of you who drive your DeLoreans daily, know that you have to fill gas 
very, very often compared to any other car be it old or new!

Btw, Dyno lost a "considerable amount of money" on the DeLorean project. I 
have the letter confirming this!

Since DMCL went bankrupt my guess is that Dyno simply "kept the car" as part 
of the payment owed to them by DeLorean, and later sold it off.

Nice deal...10,000 plastic fuel tanks for one DeLorean! ;)

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland

VIN # 06759
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at


Message: 20
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 23:24:49 -0000
Subject: think you have otterstat problems?

Something to keep in mind for the summer:

I know, from experience and from postings on this list, that when 
people have cooling problems, they often immediately blame the 
otterstat, replace it, and are surprised when this doesn't solve 
their problems.

If your otterstat is the problem, you will find that the only way to 
keep your engine cool while idling is to turn the A/C *ON*.  If this 
doesn't describe your situation, then the otterstat is almost 
certainly not the (only) problem.

Of course, the exception to this is when your otterstat wiring is 
faulty.  This is easy to check by reaching under the engine and 
shorting the otterstat wires together.

I have a fanzilla (it was in there when I bought the car) so I'm not 
sure how accurate this "otterstat postulate" is for those who do not 
have a fanzilla installed.  Any clarifications for those D's is 
probably welcome to the owners...



Message: 21
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 23:36:32 -0000
Subject: Re: Good address for JZD?

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., senatorpack_at_dml_c... wrote:
> [Moderator note - they may hate me for this, but see This is Mark's dealership.
> You should contact his nephew Mark in Cleveland. Mark can forward 
mail to 
> John.

Did anyone else notice that(Mark Delorean has a Delorean for sale
(Stock #3965 Year 82  Color DMC Silver) Wonder WHO that Delorean 
belonged to,trade in maybe, or?



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