From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 624
Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 6:10 AM

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There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Voltage Spikes?
From: "John G. Pietrowski" <kritter_at_dml_toast.net>

2. Re: antifreeze question
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com

3. Re: think you have otterstat problems?
From: Todd Masinelli <tmasin_at_dml_madisontelco.com>

4. Re: when do fans come on?
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

5. Re: when do fans come on?
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

6. New Shocks a MUST!!!
From: "Scott Cagle" <sharkywtrs_at_dml_msn.com>

7. RE: antifreeze question
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

8. Re: antifreeze question
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

9. Cold start valve question
From: Michael Pike <iqintermedia_at_dml_yahoo.com>

10. Removable Windows
From: CBL302_at_dml_msn.com

11. Re: antifreeze question
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>

12. RE: Removable Windows
From: "Buckner, William" <William.Buckner_at_dml_pfizer.com>

13. Re: Voltage Spikes?
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

14. Re: Cold start valve question
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

15. Re: Cams
From: shirazcupala_at_dml_home.com

16. Re: New Shocks a MUST!!!
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>

17. Re: Cams
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>

18. Re: antifreeze question
From: theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com

19. Re: Cold start valve question
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>

20. Re: Michael's Wet feet
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

21. Re: Cold start valve question
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:21:51 -0400
From: "John G. Pietrowski" <kritter_at_dml_toast.net>
Subject: Voltage Spikes?

Hi,

Here's a quick question.  I think I know the answer, but just want to be sure.  I have #4945 which has an Automatic Transmission. I just had the Computer Governor replaced and I know voltage spikes can kill them, so here's my question.  I have a quick disconnect on my battery so that it doesn't die when I'm not driving my DeLorean.  Reconnecting the battery(turning the knob) isn't considered a voltage spike, is it?  Just want to make sure.  Thanks for your help.

John G Pietrowski
Toledo Ohio


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 23:32:04 -0000
From: srubano_at_dml_optonline.com
Subject: Re: antifreeze question

The water is what helps cool the engine , the antifreeze is for well 
so the water doesn't freeze and to lube and protect the internal 
parts from corroding due to there is water in the system....and also 
(I believe) to keep the boiling point of the water high (so it won't 
boil). If you put straight antifreeze into the engine....it won't 
cool it as efficiently (especially in this heat!) and may even come 
close to over heating. Follow the mixture. I believe Prestone makes 
ready mixed antifreeze so you don't have to go through the trouble. I 
would suggest that you fix that leak because it will turn into a 
major problem unexpectedly. Even though it is very small….just from 
the heat of the coolant expanding and contracting the parts it will 
get worse. 

Steve

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Michael Pike <iqintermedia_at_dml_y...> wrote:

> Here is my question - antifreeze says 70/30 mix
> maximum...> 
> Can I put straight antifreeze in the car? 



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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 19:55:57 -0500
From: Todd Masinelli <tmasin_at_dml_madisontelco.com>
Subject: Re: think you have otterstat problems?

> If your otterstat is the problem [...]
> the only way to keep your engine cool while idling
> is to turn the A/C *ON*.  If this doesn't describe your
> situation, then the otterstat is almost certainly not
> the (only) problem.
> [...] the exception to this is when your otterstat wiring
> is faulty

If I understand correctly, the scenario you describe (using the A/C to make
the fans run) would indicate that the otterstat is stuck in the "off"
position, unable to complete the circuit and allow the fans to run...right?
But couldn't the opposite occur, where the otterstat is stuck in the "on"
position and the fans run all the time?

My fans run continuously, but when I pull either of the otterstat wires they
stop.  When I plug the wire back in, the fans start back up.  I presumed
this meant my otterstat was stuck "on."  Is that not necessarily the case?
Can the otterstat only fail one way?

___________________
Todd Masinelli
VIN 6681 (Nov 81)




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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:01:29 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: when do fans come on?

David, Are you complaining it's to cold. The otterstat that it sell now turn 
on at 199 Degrees, that's at the otterstat temp. The heat sending unit for 
the gauge is at the engine block. That could make up the difference. Sit back 
and enjoy. The radiator could be not cooling down as fast and make sure that 
both fans suck air not blow.
John hervey 
www.specialTauto.com



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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:30:32 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: when do fans come on?

The temp gauge in the Delorean is not that accurate. If you suspect a 
problem then you should use either a Templestick, a thermometer, an 
infrared thermometer or some other accurate method of measureing 
temperature. If your car never warms up it could be a thermostat that 
is stuck open or maybe it isn't even there. It is possible that your 
otterstadt switch comes on too early, different venders sell 
differently calibrated otterstadt switches. It is not good to run a 
motor too cold. Your fuel economy will be low and emissions high. Your 
engine oil will become contaminated because the moisture is never 
boiled out and it will corrode the internals of your engine. You will 
not get any heat out of the heater in the winter also.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Delorean17_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hello List,
>     I have a question.  My temp gauge never goes past the first 
white line.  



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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:02:14 -0400
From: "Scott Cagle" <sharkywtrs_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: New Shocks a MUST!!!


For anyone who drives their car for long periods of time, or anyone who just wants to up the performance and handling, let me be one in a long line to tell you, the Grady shocks are incredible!!  What they do to the car can't even come close to being put in words.  Bringing my car back from DMC Joe's I first saw the difference, but the real test was this weekend when myself and the ETDOC went on the Blue Ridge Parkway.  No bouncing, no hard hits on the rear, these things are great!  For anyone who is debating these, let me say go for it.  You definately won't regret it!


Scott
#16738


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 22:09:28 -0500
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: antifreeze question

Antifreeze should be mixed to the manufacturer's recommendations
(usually 50/50 for mazimum cold weather protection).
Straight antifreeze does not transfer heat as well as a mixture
of antifreeze and water.  Do not use tap water.  You should 
used distilled (not spring) water available at any grocery
store.  An easy way to measure your mixture is to fill half
of an empty gallon milk jug with distilled water, then 
fill the jug with antifreeze - Presto(ne)! a 50/50 mix.
You now have two half-filled jugs to work with and a gallon
of mixed coolant.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Pike [mailto:iqintermedia_at_dml_yahoo.com]

Here is my question - antifreeze says 70/30 mix
maximum...




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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:43:34 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: antifreeze question

You should never run your cooling system with anything more than a 
50/50 mixture of anti-freeze and soft water. Any other mixture will 
give you a lower boiling point and a higher freezing point. If your 
car has less than a 50/50 mixture it is OK to put some anti-freeze in 
but normally you should just cut it in half and top off. If you have a 
drip you have a leak that must be attended to. It might be as simple 
as tightening a hose clamp or it could be a warning that one of the 
plastic end tanks is about to blow off! You cannot afford to ignore 
ANY leak even minor ones. Remember that the system is pressureized up 
to 15 psi and while that may not sound like much you would be 
impressed if a hose broke off and the coolant flashed into steam! Last 
summer on the Rhode Island Rally one of the cars blew off a radiater 
tank and it looked for a second like the car was on fire, it was 
enveloped in a cloud of steam and there was nothing we could do to 
help him. He had to wait till Rob Grady got home to send him a new 
radiater. It is much better to fix your car in your garage than on the 
road!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757





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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:32:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Pike <iqintermedia_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Cold start valve question

Just took my car out for another 200 mile trip
today...I've now deemed it as "I can trust it" car...
it runs better than my bronco, and it has a rebuilt
engine!

One thing I have done is disconnect the blue cold
start valve to prevent the hot start problem (I hope
the accumulator doesnt go next from the nighmares I
have heard about getting it installed)...

Anyhow, will it cause any damage leaving it unplugged?
 Will the car start when it's cold without it hooked
up?  It's easy enough to hook and unhook, thats not a
problem, I just want to make sure I will not cause any
damage by doing it.... my D is no longer a "start once
a month, and maybe drive it car", it's now a "any nice
weekend she goes out on the town with me" car - and I
do not want to risk damaging anything...

On a second note while I am thinking of it... the
driver's side floor in my car feels kind of soggy...
is this normal?

I've been extra careful to not put weight on it...I
wasn't sure if it's something that's normal or if I
should have a look at it.

Thanks!
Mike
VIN 855


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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:17:38 -0000
From: CBL302_at_dml_msn.com
Subject: Removable Windows

How about somebody coming up with a way,of having removable side 
windows,since the toll booth windows roll down(and in my state,there 
are NO toll booths(Connecticut),it would just be a matter of someone 
coming up with a way to make the fixed glass 
removable/waterproof,somewhat in the same fashion as T-Tops,that are 
secure,but easy to remove,and waterproof,and Doesn't look like a 
major modifaction.SINCE none of my Deloreans see rain/outside 
parking,I am almost tempted to roll down the toll booth windows,and 
REMOVE the fixed glass,just to have regular open windows.

Claude
000570 




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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 06:31:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: antifreeze question

SNIP - - Mike wrote:

> once again for being the great guy that he is... as
> I've decided to no longer try and keep my car under
> 4000 miles anymore (meaning I drive it for fun now!
> woohoo!), I've discovered I have the hot-start
> problem... 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I'm glad you've decided to keep your car.  I am even
more excited that you are going to drive it.  IMHO.
the joy of DeLorean ownership comes from driving it on
a regular basis. While I only drive mine 6 months out
of the year (it is not a winter mountain car) put
15-20K on it each year. 

The good news is that you'll meet new friends, get
envious stares, get "thumbs up" from lots of folks and
have a car that is actually  fun to drive.  BUT, there
is some bad news.  A 20 year old car with only 4000
miles has not been driven enough to display all of
it's individual quirks.  They will appear!! Some of
them may well be very frustrating and at least a
couple will cost a few $$$$.  HOWEVER, as you have
already discovered, this forum is a tremendous help.  

Good luck!

Dick Ryan 
VIN 16867

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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:46:45 -0400
From: "Buckner, William" <William.Buckner_at_dml_pfizer.com>
Subject: RE: Removable Windows

Now were are talking.  I'm listening too.

Vin # 11268



Bill Buckner

Instrumentation Supervisor
Electrical and Instrument Dept.
Pfizer, Inc.
Global Manufacturing
Holland, MI Facility
   %   Phone:  616-392-2375  x-2449
 *   Fax:      616-392-8267
     *  Email:    william.buckner_at_dml_pfizer.com

-----Original Message-----
From: CBL302_at_dml_msn.com [mailto:CBL302_at_dml_msn.com]
Subject: [DML] Removable Windows
How about somebody coming up with a way,of having removable side 
windows
Claude
000570 



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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:43:53 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Voltage Spikes?

John,

Reconnecting the battery will not cause any damaging voltage spikes, you may continue to use your battery cut off switch with no worry.

DMC Joe
www.dmc.tv 
"We're here to help you"
DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>


 



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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:47:54 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Cold start valve question

You asked:

"Anyhow, will it cause any damage leaving it unplugged?  Will the car start when it's cold without it hooked up?"

The cold start valve only fires when the air temperature is below 95 F therefore the lower the temperature below 95 F the more difficult it will be to get the engine to fire. Other than that there are no ill effects to having the cold start plug disconnected.

To return the cold start valve to its normal operation simple replace the Time-Temperature Switch, this procedure is easily accomplished in just a couple of minutes. The Time-Temperature Switch is part number 102462 and is priced at $38.40 from your favorite DeLorean parts supplier. 

DMC Joe
www.dmc.tv 
"We're here to help you"
DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>




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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:50:53 -0000
From: shirazcupala_at_dml_home.com
Subject: Re: Cams

You're actually speaking of http://www.ipdusa.com/ There are many 
versions of the PRV-6 so you need to look under the specific number 
like b28 or b280.  I don't know which is the right one for the D or 
if they make one that would fit the D.  If you look at my spec page 
at http://members.home.net/shirazcupala/delorean/specifications.htm 
you'll find a link at the bottom to the guy who did my engine swap.  
He races a later model PRV from an Eagle Premier (like mine) but with 
different cam shafts (I think from IPD since that's one of his 
sponsors).  Note, that engine is even firing, so many other things 
are different.

shiraz
DeLorean #2860
Seattle, WA

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., petleech_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Speaking of performance, there has got to be some European outfit 
who has 
> developed performance cams or headers. Anyone lucky enough to have 
found any? 
> I checked www.ipd.com as it said in one old digest but there's 
nothing for 
> the PRV6.




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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:31:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New Shocks a MUST!!!


As a supporter and admirer of Rob Grady, I am always
pleased to hear good things about his products. 
However, I, too, recently put new shocks on my car and
opted for the shocks sold by the midstates DeLorean
club.  Price was the primary reason and the fact that
I know Marty Maier and his car made me feel the shocks
would be a good investment.

I recetnly put 2300 miles on my car in less than a
week and I am VERY pleased with the change in the
ride.  On the one hand, it is very sublte.  The car
still handles like a sports (sporty?) car, but the
ride is much smoother.  Despite its smoother (softer?)
ride, it does not wallow.  

I can't compare these to any other aftermarket shocks
being offered by the typical vendors and have nothing
bad to say about any of them.  However, if you need
shocks and like to save some money, I would strongly
suggest you check these out.

Dick Ryan
VIN 16867

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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:22:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cams

In 1995 Renault produced about 2500 "A610's"-  rear
engined with  a modified  PRV6.  It was equipped with
a Garrett T-3 turbocharger and produced 250 hp.  I
would assume that it had a "performance" cam and that
such cam might very well work in the D engine.  Anyone
know anymore about this?

Dick Ryan
VIN 16867


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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:46:31 -0000
From: theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: antifreeze question

 (I think this question has been correctly answered a couple of times, so this will close the thread on the antifreeze question - Marty, this weeks moderator)


Mike, as the sticker on the header bottle says, you're supposed to run
a mixture of 50% antifreeze & 50% distilled water (no chlorine or other
minerals)

John Yeoman

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Michael Pike <iqintermedia_at_dml_y...> wrote:

> Here is my question - antifreeze says 70/30 mix
> maximum



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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:41:02 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Re: Cold start valve question

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Michael Pike <iqintermedia_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> One thing I have done is disconnect the blue cold
> start valve to prevent the hot start problem (I hope
> the accumulator doesnt go next from the nighmares I
> have heard about getting it installed)...

Why did you do this?  Leaving the cold start valve plugged in 
normally will not cause a hot start problem, and will make cold 
starting very hard if not impossible.  Just leave everything plugged 
in as normal, and if you encounter yourself unable to start it after 
driving it, THEN go back and swap plugs with the CPR just to get it 
started.

> 
> On a second note while I am thinking of it... the
> driver's side floor in my car feels kind of soggy...
> is this normal?

Probably condensation from your AC.  My water drain somehow got 
clogged up a few days after finally getting my car back on the road, 
and I often find my foot getting soaked with water after a hard right 
turn.  I'm still trying to figure out a better way then a vaccume 
cleaner to pull debris out of the drain tube (behind the right front 
tire).

I am also glad that you decided to keep your car and drive it more 
often.  Your post the other day hit me hard, THATS AWSOME!  
Good luck with any/everything you do.

Jim Reeve
MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club
DMC-6960




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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:28:59 -0000
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Michael's Wet feet

You need to figure out if its water (see Service Bulletin ST33 
(ftp://dmcnews.com/pub/ST33.pdf on body leaks) or Hydralic Fluid 
(leaky clutch master). If its the second, it will feel slightly oily 
and will never dry. Also you will ultimately find it difficult to 
shift gears, OR you are adding fluid to the clutch reservoir often.

Of course if your car is an Automatic, then #2 does not apply...

Dave Swingle


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Michael Pike <iqintermedia_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> On a second note while I am thinking of it... the
> driver's side floor in my car feels kind of soggy...
> is this normal?
> 
> I've been extra careful to not put weight on it...I
> wasn't sure if it's something that's normal or if I
> should have a look at it.
> 




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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 20:27:07 -0000
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com
Subject: Re: Cold start valve question

Leaving the Cold Start Valve unplugged won't do much of anything, let 
alone prevent a hot start problem. The purpose of the CSV is exactly 
as it implys. The valve is used only when attempting to start a cold 
engine. Quick run thru: When metal is cold, it contracts. Thus when 
an engine is cold, it contracts, and thus has more friction. The CSV 
is basicly the equivalent of a choke for a carburetor. It shots extra 
fuel into the system to create a richer mixture to counteract the 
additional friction. As you have already noticed, the valve is 
electrical. So as soon as it recieves an electrical current, the 
valve will fully open.

What a "hot start" problem is:

The offical name of the fuel injection system is a BOSCH K-Jetronic. 
It is known as a mechanical, or Continuous Injection System. An 
Electronic Injection System works on the same principal as the CSV. 
But rather than wide open, the electrical pulse cycles to control the 
fuel flow/amount. The CIS system doesn't need any electronic 
components to operate. The injectors are opend via pressure. The 
higher the pressure, the wider the valve opens to allow more fuel 
thru. Since high pressure is whats needed to open the valves, the 
pressure has to be maintained. A check valve, and a fuel accumulator 
are both used to keep the pressure while the system is off. If the 
pressure is not kept, then the system needs time to "refill" itself. 
In otherwords the fuel pump has to rebuild enough pressure in the 
system to force the fuel injectors open to feed the engine. That is 
what happens when you have a hot start problem.

How the CSV starts a hot engine w/a "hot start" problem:

When you have a hot start problem, the engine is being starved. Since 
the CSV is electical, it can open up w/o a specific pressure. That 
means that what ever fuel is in the system at the time, can be dumped 
into the engine. So in other words, the CSV will feed the engine 
untill the regular injectors are ready. BUT, within a few seconds, 
the CSV can also flood the engine too. The CSV is only designed to 
operate for a few seconds when the engine is first started. And only 
when the engine is cold at that. It may be a small item, but that 
little valve can dump ALOT of fuel into the engine. And we do mean 
dump in the literal sense of the word.

Bottom line: If the CSV is left unplugged, you won't notice a thing 
when running you engine, or starting it warm. If you try to start the 
engine cold with the CSV unplugged, you will have difficulty. But 
that will be the only symptom you have.

I didn't mean to go this in-depth about the fuel injection system 
just to explain 1 little item, but it was the only way it could make 
sense.

-Robert
vin 6585




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