From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 625
Date: Thursday, July 12, 2001 5:30 AM

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There are 18 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. loose steering
From: "Lynn Metz" <>

2. Re: Cold start valve question
From: "B Benson" <>

3. RE: Removable Windows
From: "Kevin Abato" <>

4. Shifting concern
From: Aaron Posey <>

5. Yet another Coolant Problem

6. PHX area D owners
From: "Matthew P. Olans" <>

7. my tach is weird
From: "Cameron Putsch" <>

8. Re: Re: Michael's Wet feet
From: Michael Pike <>

9. West Coast DeLorean/Bricklin Celebration Registration on-line!
From: "Montgomery, Ken" <>

10. Re: Re: Cold start valve question
From: Michael Pike <>

11. RE: Cams
From: "Marc A. Levy" <>

12. Re: Cold start valve question

13. Re: New Shocks a MUST!!!
From: "DMC Joe" <>

14. Re: New Shocks a MUST!!!
From: Dick Ryan <>

15. Re: Yet another Coolant Problem

16. Front Facia Removal

17. Re: Michael's Wet feet
From: "David Swingle" <>

18. Re: Removable Windows

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:23:22 -0700
From: "Lynn Metz" <>
Subject: loose steering


I know this has been adressed before (about 2 yrs. ago I think), but, is 
there a test for the u-joints in the steering mechanism?  Everytime I drive 
my car I can't help but feel like it is not as tight as it should be.  My 
everyday car is a Firebird.  It is pretty tight steering, but should not be 
"better" than my D.  Presently, it is MUCH better.  I usually tell myself 
that it is just pwer steering vs. manual steering.  But when I go over 
railroad tracks it feels like the steering wheel is "sloppy".  (P.S. I also 
owned a Chevette for 4 years with manual steering and it was "tighter" than 
my D.)  My car only has 21,000 miles and it is hard to believe that the 
u-joints are worn already.  I have tried to twist each end and look for 
slop, but I don't see or feel any.  I only feel it when driving.  Any help 
is appreciated.
Brian 16584
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:38:09 -0700
From: "B Benson" <>
Subject: Re: Cold start valve question

> One thing I have done is disconnect the blue cold
> start valve to prevent the hot start problem (I hope
> the accumulator doesnt go next from the nighmares I
> have heard about getting it installed)...
> Anyhow, will it cause any damage leaving it unplugged?
>  Will the car start when it's cold without it hooked
> up?  > Thanks!
> Mike
> VIN 855


You've got things a bit mixed up. When the engine fails to start when hot
and it's fuel related it's usually because the pressure drops below what it
takes to open the mechanical injectors. That's caused by either a weak
accumulator or a bad check valve in the fuel pump. At that point if you
unplug the blue connector from the cold start valve and the gray plug from
the warm up regulator and then plug the gray plug to the cold start valve
you will fire the cold start valve during engine cranking. The cold start
valve is actually an electric fuel injector and by firing it you introduce
enough fuel to get the engine started. You should then immediately unplug
the gray connector from the cold start valve and return it to the warm-up
regulator. Plug the blue connector back on the cold start valve and think
about getting the low fuel pressure problem fixed. This isn't a permanent
fix, it's a limp home emergency procedure.

Bruce Benson


Message: 3
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 20:03:59 -0400
From: "Kevin Abato" <>
Subject: RE: Removable Windows

i dont know.....That is like taking away some of the uniquness of the car.
People get a kick from the "tiny little windows".  I think they make the
window and the car special.  I live in NJ and have an EZ Pass for all the
tolls, but I still like my little 6" windows!  Even though I do not havbe
much use for them.

-----Original Message-----
From: []
Subject: [DML] Removable Windows

How about somebody coming up with a way,of having removable side
windows,since the toll booth windows roll down(and in my state,there
are NO toll booths(Connecticut)



Message: 4
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 20:15:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Aaron Posey <>
Subject: Shifting concern

I have a tiny problem with my car that I hope doesn't turn
into something major.

When shifting from 4th to 3rd about 50% of the time, it
grinds the gears(but I am not sure if it IS grinding,
because it doesn't do the same thing as the typical
grind--more or less a hard shift).  I am making sure the
clutch is all the way down and try to notice what situation
it happens most in, but cannot seem to pinpoint it. 

Here is what has been done to the car:
1. Stainless Steel clutch line installed
2. New Slave Cylinder
3. New Master Cylinder
4. System Bled

The concern started about 2 months ago and we just changed
out the slave and master about 3 weeks ago and it is still
doing it.

What else do I need to do..this is getting half-way
annoying!  The car has 2999 miles on it so I would hope it
isn't major.

Thank you,

Aaron Posey

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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:21:56 EDT
Subject: Yet another Coolant Problem

So here it is, the enigma that plagues my car; it overheats. Here's a 
description, I drove the car in traffic for hours one day, no problem. Then, 
I stopped for approximately five mintues, got back in the car, backed it out, 
and started down a hill when, boom, the temp went straight up and it 
overheated. The main coolant hoses into the waterpump were sucked down like a 
vacuum. I had the car towed home, and started to bleed the system. It all was 
going fine (although there was way too much air in there) when all of a 
sudden the Resevoir tank backed up and erupted, at 160 degrees! My car has 
had this problem it seems since I got it four years ago, thus I haven't been 
able to drive it much. The problem seemed to dissapear after one bleeding, 
but resurfaced in the episode I described above. Does anyone have any clue 
what is going on here? It has been suggested that the thermometer might be 
malfunctioning, or that the radiator is messed up, or that the head gaskets 
are bad. I really don't know what to believe. Thanks, 

John Weaver

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 6
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:46:36 -0400
From: "Matthew P. Olans" <>
Subject: PHX area D owners

Hey kids,
        It's official, I am moving.  I will be relocating to the greater
Phoenix metro area within the next month.  I'd like to touch base with some
DeLorean owners out there and get to know a few mechanics in that area.
Please contact me privately with any contacts or suggestions.

VIN #10365
VIN #16816


Message: 7
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:52:23 +0200
From: "Cameron Putsch" <>
Subject: my tach is weird

SCORE!! Well I am now the proud owner of vin 010259 dec of '81 which is the same year as me! Anyway I am curious about my tach, it moves at what seems 25% of as much as it should, so when I rev it to around 4500 the thing bearly shows 2500 and it is almost always stuck at 1500 and only moves up a little when the car is wound out a bit through gears (over 3800 aprox.). Anyway I hope someone out there has a clue why it is doing this and I would appreciate what help I may get, but other than the tach the car is very nice with 27k on the odometer, the 5spd and a grey int.

Casey Vin#010259

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 8
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:04:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Pike <>
Subject: Re: Re: Michael's Wet feet


my feet aren't wet - the floor feels soggy, but is
dry.. think of it as like flimsy plywood... the
airconditioner drains fine, and its on the passenger
side.  And it's an automatic.

I thought maybe the D had wooden floors?  Not sure..


--- David Swingle <> wrote:
> You need to figure out if its water (see Service
> Bulletin ST33 
> ( on body leaks) or
> Hydralic Fluid 
> (leaky clutch master). 


Message: 9
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:05:57 -0700
From: "Montgomery, Ken" <>
Subject: West Coast DeLorean/Bricklin Celebration Registration on-line!

A few months ago, I announced the creation of this new show. This is an
update to let everyone know the status of the event:

Finally, we have the major elements situated where we can now open
registration. Fliers are now available and we will activate the on-line
registration in a couple days. The form is also downloadable on our website.
The 2001 DeLorean/Bricklin West Coast Celebration 

September 20 - 23, San Ramon, California

Come join DeLorean and Bricklin owners from all over the West for 3 plus
days of fun and great cars. 

Our home base for the show is the San Ramon Marriott. San Ramon, California
is approximately 25 miles east of the city of Oakland in the San Francisco
Bay Area. The San Ramon Valley has long been considered one of the most
desirable areas in the Bay Area because of its scenic beauty, good climate,
suburban charm, and proximity to the Bay Area's major business centers. 

Thursday night kicks off our weekend with a welcome reception and an
opportunity to re-acquaint yourself with old friends and make new ones. We
plan to keep a hospitality room available throughout the event. This will
give owners a place to meet at any time they wish.

Friday morning we will caravan from the hotel to Livermore Valley for a tour
of the Wente Vineyards Winery and to have lunch. Our driving route will take
us through the backroads and scenic locations of the area.

Our Friday night banquet is at the prestigious Blackhawk Auto Museum, an
affiliate of the Smithsonian Institution. Admission to the Banquet includes
touring the museum and admission to the Smithsonian RMS Titanic Exhibit.
Special guests and speakers for the evening are to be announced. Raffles
with special prizes will be held each night. 

Saturday is our car show at the Marriott. We will have several levels of
judging. There will also be tech seminars for both cars, a dealers room
featuring DeLorean Motor Company, Houston, P.J. Grady, The DeLorean Motor
Center, The DeLorean Owners Association and others, along with displays and

Saturday night we'll have our awards banquet at the Marriott with trophies
for the Show's award-winning entries. There will be raffle prizes for both

On Sunday we caravan to Alameda and place our cars on the dock next to the
USS Hornet for a tour and lunch. The USS Hornet was the aircraft carrier
that brought home the Apollo 11 astronauts after the first manned landing on
the moon.

Joining us is Bricklin International and the California Bricklin Owners
club. This combined event will familiarize us with the unique qualities of
each other's cars and allows us to use our combined numbers to further the
quality of the event.

This will be a great driving event for people on or close to the West Coast,
and the Show, combined with the many interesting opportunities this region
of California offers, makes this a worthwhile event for those who fly in
from around the country.

Rooms are available at the Marriott (925) 867-9200. Make sure to mention the
DeLorean/Bricklin Car Show to get the $74 convention rate. Please make your
hotel reservations as soon as possible to help us prepare properly for your

Putting this event together has been an amazing ride. All the venues have
been very cooperative and are really looking forward to hosting us. As we
can, updates about the show will be posted on our website. This last weekend
we went through the event sites with the Bricklin representatives and they
feel this will be a top notch event and are extremely proud of what we have
put together. 

We've learned that the Mercedes Gullwing Club will be able to join us for
the Friday portion of our weekend as they make a tour of the West Coast.
This will be a truly amazing sight; multiple examples of all 3 production
gullwing cars together at once in the circle in front of the Blackhawk

We have worked very hard to keep the prices as low as possible for the
event. As a fund raiser for the clubs, we will be having raffles at the
Friday and Saturday dinners. We've been able to line up some great raffle
prizes provided by P.J. Grady, the DeLorean Motor Company, The DeLorean
Motor Center, the DeLorean Owners Association,, plus
Bricklin parts and service providers along with items from the venues

Along with the on-line forms and on-line registration, printed forms are
also available. email me your postal address if you would like one sent to

Ken Montgomery

Ken Montgomery	Sacramento, CA  VIN #10911  'OUTTIME'
President, Northern California DeLorean Motor Club
Keeper of the International DeLorean Owners Directory


Message: 10
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:02:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Pike <>
Subject: Re: Re: Cold start valve question

Well - the car was warm from being driven, and would
NOT start... after unplugging the blue connector per
DMCJoe (whom I never even question his advice, as far
as I am concerned anything he says is correct, he has
the knowledge and experience on Delorean's to back it
up), it started, and starts right up with no problem -
so it did something right.


--- Jim Reeve <> wrote:

> Why did you do this?  Leaving the cold start valve
> plugged in 
> normally will not cause a hot start problem, and
> will make cold 
> starting very hard if not impossible.  Just leave
> everything plugged 
> in as normal, and if you encounter yourself unable
> to start it after 
> driving it, THEN go back and swap plugs with the CPR
> just to get it 
> started.

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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:14:33 -0400
From: "Marc A. Levy" <>
Subject: RE: Cams

I have been spending a lot of time investigating all of the performance
PRV-V6 motors, and this is a turbocharged motor.  The performance tune
on this motor is from the addition of a turbo.  The pistons are lower
compression than the DeLorean, so they can increase the boost over what
our aftermarket DeLorean kits are limited too.

Although I do not have details on the differences between the A610 cam's
and the DeLorean, I dont think this swap will be any improvement..

The A610 is rare, and I was in the process of trying to purchase and
import one of the motors.   Most of the leads I got with claims of a
A610 motor were actually A310 Turbo, or other similar renault turbo
engines.  On closer inspection, the configuration of those motors will
not fit in the DeLorean without heavy modification to the turbo

Sad things is, Most of the high performance cars that used the PRV-V6
motors are considered rare.  


-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Ryan []
Subject: Re: [DML] Cams

In 1995 Renault produced about 2500 "A610's"-  rear
engined with  a modified  PRV6.  It was equipped with
a Garrett T-3 turbocharger and produced 250 hp.  I
would assume that it had a "performance" cam and that
such cam might very well work in the D engine.  Anyone
know anymore about this?

Dick Ryan
VIN 16867


Message: 12
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:43:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Cold start valve question

In a message dated 7/10/01 9:38:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, writes:

<< One thing I have done is disconnect the blue cold
 start valve to prevent the hot start problem >>

    Why did you disconnect the blue cold start valve?  My understanding on 
this is that the hot start problem is that the accumulator doesn't hold the 
rest pressure in the fuel lines so when you go to start the car when its hot, 
theres no pressure in the lines.  It has nothing to do with the cold start 
valve.  Maybe what you misunderstood is what everyone else is talking about 
with the cold start valve and removing the plug to it.  In the engine 
compartment, the control pressure regulator gets a constant power when the 
ignition is on, so if you are having a hot start problem, the sensor that 
would normally turn on the cold start valve is disabled because its hot and 
by switching the plugs for the cold start valve and the control pressure 
regulator you are powering up the cold start valve and sending fuel to the 
engine to make it start hot.  I would connect that cold start valve up again 
if I were you.

<A HREF="Http://">Http://</A>


Message: 13
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:54:53 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: New Shocks a MUST!!!


We are always happy to hear owners experiences concerning new products.

In defense of the PJ Grady shocks and price keep in mind that Rob spent almost two years researching and testing various brands to insure that the replacement shocks would not only exceed ride and performance criteria but would also be of the highest quality possible. There were "off the shelf" versions that would fit the bill but Rob was not completely satisfied with their performance and construction.  

The PJ Grady shock absorbers are custom made for the DeLorean based on Rob Grady's stringent specifications. This custom limited production is another reason for the higher price. In addition to nitrogen charging, the shocks also contain a pressure adjustable valve for owners who want to tweak the pressure to their personal liking. A heavy duty cir-clip collar is used for mechanical height adjustment and the shocks are re-buildable.

Once again I'm sure that the shock kit from Midstates DeLorean Club is everything you say it is but I wanted to make sure that everyone was aware of the reason for the additional cost of the PJ Grady product.

DMC Joe 
"We're here to help you"
DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <>

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Dick Ryan 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 11:31 AM
  Subject: Re: [DML] New Shocks a MUST!!!

  As a supporter and admirer of Rob Grady, I am always
  pleased to hear good things about his products. 
  However, I, too, recently put new shocks on my car and
  opted for the shocks sold by the midstates DeLorean
  club.  Price was the primary reason and the fact that
  I know Marty Maier and his car made me feel the shocks
  would be a good investment.

  I recetnly put 2300 miles on my car in less than a
  week and I am VERY pleased with the change in the
  ride.  On the one hand, it is very sublte.  The car
  still handles like a sports (sporty?) car, but the
  ride is much smoother.  Despite its smoother (softer?)
  ride, it does not wallow.  

  I can't compare these to any other aftermarket shocks
  being offered by the typical vendors and have nothing
  bad to say about any of them.  However, if you need
  shocks and like to save some money, I would strongly
  suggest you check these out.

  Dick Ryan
  VIN 16867

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 14
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:27:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dick Ryan <>
Subject: Re: New Shocks a MUST!!!

(ATTN: Moderator - I don't want to start a long
discussion on this issue, but I felt Joe's comments
called for a response.)


I have NEVER questioned the price or the quality of
ANY of the aftermarket items especially developed by
Rob, Stephen, or others.  I fully recognize the
economics of short run production and the need to get
a return on investment.  Reread my note and you'll see
that I did nothing but praise Rob and his products.

Having said that, there are times when many of us need
to watch our pennies.  While I would never put
something on my car that I think is cheap, I will
always look for things that adequately serve my needs
and then try for the best price.  That seemed to be
the case with the shocks in question.  I didn't knock
any of the other shocks nor did I even hint that they
were overpriced.  I simply pointed out that there
exists an alternative that is less expensive and which
I found to be quite adequate for my needs.

Dick Ryan
VIN 16867

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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:33:04 -0000
Subject: Re: Yet another Coolant Problem

No matter what type of car you own, you should always perform a 
system pressure test on the cooling system and radiator cap anytime 
the engine over heats.

You'll need to peice things together a bit more before you can 
diagnose your problem, but it sounds like you have a leak. Depending 
on when you last bled the system, and how much air you bled out is a 
big question here. Another thing is when did you last check your 
coolant level in the over flow tank? Perform the above mentioned 
pressure test to ensure the system is ok. Without knowing anything 
further, a possible senario is that you have a coolant leak. You 
drove yesterday, and the leak was finally able to bleed enough 
coolant off to break suction in the system. No more flowing water, 
and the engine blew off the rest of the coolant when it boiled. in 
this case, even if you didn't stop, the overheating would have been 

To have a leak, you don't have to have puddles of antifreeze under 
the car. The leak an be small enough that the coolant will steam out 
of the line, and vaporize itself. I had somthing simular on my car, 
and you may have a leak in one of two of these spots: 1. Bad radiator 
cap. 2. Leaking Hose behind water pump. Even if the leak is big 
enough to puddle, if the leak is behind the water pump, you may not 
see it when it collects on top of the engine.

If you had a bad head gasket, your motor oil would be foamy when you 
changed it.

For the time being, don't take the car to a mechanic, don't tear 
anything apart, and don't buy any new parts for the car untill you 
perform the system pressure tests. These will go along way to help 
you diagnose your problem, and will save you money by way of not 
having to buy parts you don't require to solve the problem.

Also, NEVER, EVER bleed the cooling system and leave the radiator cap 
off. You can get severe burns from hot coolant. Also, it's not good 
for the enviornment tho have antifreeze in the storm drains. Plus any 
animals that drink antifreeze can die from it. I'll admit that 160 
is a bit early for the thermostat to open, but right now it is a bit 
too early to diagnose the thermostat as defective.

vin 6585

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., deloreanss_at_dml_a... wrote:
> So here it is, the enigma that plagues my car; it overheats...


Message: 16
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:45:16 -0400
Subject: Front Facia Removal

I am sure this must have been addressed somewhere but I can't seem to find the artical on front facia removal.  Is there some trick?  I have followed the manual to the letter and it still will not come off.  Does the hood really need to come off?  Any help would be appreciated.  

It's not going to be red much longer
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:16:36 -0000
From: "David Swingle" <>
Subject: Re: Michael's Wet feet

Nope, no plywood. Just peel back the carpet and take a look, easier 
if you pull the seat out (4 nuts are under the car). The layers are:  
The rubber heal thingy, the carpet, some jute padding, and the 
fiberglass underbody, i.e. the other side of the bottom of the car. 
Nothing fancy, no extra layers. Nothing to rust or rot.

Now I'm guessing that the carpet got really wet once or twice and has 
shrunk a little. Let us know what you find. 

Dave Swingle

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Michael Pike <iqintermedia_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> my feet aren't wet - the floor feels soggy, but is
> dry.. think of it as like flimsy plywood... the
> airconditioner drains fine, and its on the passenger
> side.  And it's an automatic.
> I thought maybe the D had wooden floors?  Not sure..
> Mike


Message: 18
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:53:39 -0000
Subject: Re: Removable Windows

Actually, you can't remove the glass. The purpose of the fixed glass 
is to strengthen the gullwing doors. Compared to other cars with 
gullwing doors (production or kit), you'll notice that the doors for 
the DeLorean application are larger. The hinge is farther in twards 
the center of the car to reduce the opening clearace. And the door is 
longer from top to bottom to reduce the highth of the door sills to 
make ingress/egress easier. Now factor in that the DeLorean's doors 
are also wider, and contain much more internal parts. Compared to 
other gullwing doors, you have a wiring harness, clearance lights, 
window motors, working parts for the locks, solenoids to power the 
locks, vent ducting, larger trim pieces, etc... On top of this, 
everything above that I've listed is located below the fixed glass. 
All of these items contribute to both the weight of the door, and the 
shift in weight due to their locations. Without the fixed glass, the 
door may colapse when open. I also don't know what kind of a effect 
the removal of the glass may have on the doors in a collision.

Fixed glass is nessisary for the doors. This is why the prototype car 
had the sliding glass, rather than full retractable glass windows. 
Even the '97 DeLorean time machine on the DeLorean Midwest 
Connection's website has fixed glass portions. And it does have more 
convetional type windows. Kinda like a Lotus Esprit, only the front 
part of the window jamb is vertical, rather than diagonal.

On a more personal note, I am quite happy with the toll both windows. 
Although I do agree that sometimes it would be nice to have a larger 
portion of the glass open for more airflow. I've though about how it 
would work to install a rear window motor like the one that's on the 
Honda Del Sol. That way I could roll the back window down to have the 
air flow in thru the toll both windows, and then out of the back. But 
I figured the louvers would probably create such an echo chamber, 
that I would probably go deaf in no time at all. Plus who knows if 
heat from off the engine could enter in.

In the mean time, it looks like it's one of two things: Roll down the 
windows for a slight breeze, or turn on the fan inside.

vin 6585

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., CBL302_at_dml_m... wrote:
> How about somebody coming up with a way,of having removable side 
> windows...


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