From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 626
Date: Friday, July 13, 2001 6:09 AM

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There are 23 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. radiator cap
From: "Ryan Foster" <westiething_at_dml_hotmail.com>

2. Re: Front Facia Removal
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

3. (unknown)
From: "Ryan Foster" <westiething_at_dml_hotmail.com>

4. what does the vin# mean?
From: "Cameron Putsch" <putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu>

5. Spares
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>

6. Re: Yet another Coolant Problem
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

7. stiff steering after 20minutes
From: "Arne Hofmann (Beta LAYOUT GmbH)" <arne.hofmann_at_dml_pcb-pool.com>

8. Re: loose steering
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

9. Re: Cold start valve question (it works)
From: badgeman46_at_dml_hotmail.com

10. Me Too: Cold start valve question
From: "Sacha Prins" <sacha_at_dml_prins.net>

11. Re: what does the vin# mean?
From: Henry Breer <hbreer_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>

12. weird sound when taking corners
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

13. Re: Spares
From: theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com

14. Re: Spares
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>

15. My new CD player question
From: johndmc57_at_dml_yahoo.com

16. Re: radiator cap
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

17. Re: Re: Yet another Coolant Problem
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

18. Re: Spares
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter_at_dml_jurai.net>

19. Re: Spares
From: "George C. Marshall" <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>

20. Re: Diecast Delorean model
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

21. Re: Me Too: Cold start valve question
From: "Sacha Prins" <sacha_at_dml_prins.net>

22. Re: Cold start valve question (it works)
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com

23. Re: what does the vin# mean?
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 00:59:34
From: "Ryan Foster" <westiething_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: radiator cap

Hey list,
I was wondering how often does the radiator cap go bad that is on the 
radiator?


                         Ryan- vin.#16301

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:48:09 -0000
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Front Facia Removal

At either side, in the center of the black bumper part where it 
overlaps the fender just toward the front from the marker light, 
there is a stud that is not mentioned in the manual. Sometimes 
there's a nut on it, sometimes not.  You have to kind o gently pru 
the facia away from the fender to disengage the studs. 

BTW - if you're really following the manual the hood would be off by 
now (step 5). ;-)

Yes, you have to remove the hood. There are about 10 screws under 
there that you can't get to any other way. No big deal - get two 
friends to hold it and remove the 8 screws at the hinges.

Dave Swingle

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., mrvideosawyer_at_dml_n... wrote:
> I am sure this must have been addressed somewhere but I can't seem 
to find the artical on front facia removal.  Is there some trick?  I 
have followed the manual to the letter and it still will not come 
off.  Does the hood really need to come off?  Any help would be 
appreciated.  
> 
> Jim
> 4149
> It's not going to be red much longer





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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 02:37:15
From: "Ryan Foster" <westiething_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: (unknown)

hey list ,
A friend at work told me that he was at a faimly renuion and he saw a 
DeLorean for sale in a garage sale at St. Clare Shores, MI. Is this any one 
on the list??? Thanks!

                         Ryan- vin.#16301

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:55:51 +0200
From: "Cameron Putsch" <putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu>
Subject: what does the vin# mean?

I am now vin# 010259 and I am curious to find out if the cars vin numbers are in cronological order so I can tell which number mine was off the line. Other than that what does all that other jaz mean?

Casey


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:53:40 -0700
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>
Subject: Spares

Those of you who drive distances and are prepared for most emergencies,
what do you carry as backups (In addition to tools)?  My list: belts,
alternator and fuel pump, what else should I be thinking about?




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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:31:59 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: Yet another Coolant Problem

Here goes my guesses so let me know how they turn out! Pressure test 
the system and find and fix all of the leaks. I am guessing that you 
have a bad radiater cap or plugged overflow tube because the coolant 
system should never go below atmospheric pressure. When you go below 
atmospheric pressure you are sucking air into the system so as often 
as you bleed the system it will just get more air in whenever the 
system cools down. If the motor was severly overheated you could have 
a combustion leak into the coolant system but that can be checked with 
an analyzer but it is not likely. The motor can overheat quickly if 
the water pump gets airbound (a big bubble of air gets into the pump) 
and cannot circulate the coolant (which is what sounds like what 
happened to you when you stopped the car). In cases like this it is 
usually best to just go over the ENTIRE cooling system from front to 
back as it is probably all in need of some TLC. Remember that the 
system is only as reliable as the worst hose because if there is a 
leak ANYWHERE and the coolant escapes you have no cooling system. 
There are a large number of hoses on a Delorean and on many cars they 
are over 20 years old! Don't forget the ones under the intake manifold 
that you can't even see! Don't think that installing the continuous 
bleeder can fix this, it cannot.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


-- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., deloreanss_at_dml_a... wrote:
> So here it is, the enigma that plagues my car; it overheats.

> John Weaver
> #10527



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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:23:57 +0200
From: "Arne Hofmann (Beta LAYOUT GmbH)" <arne.hofmann_at_dml_pcb-pool.com>
Subject: stiff steering after 20minutes

Hello,
has had anybody of a steering that is really smooth
when you start driving - but after about 20minutes driving
time its gets stiff. I need both hands then to hold my D
on the road. When I am driving a bend and put the hands
off the steering wheel it does not come back straight.

Really funny - and no idea what this could be ???

Arne






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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:47:10 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: loose steering

The best place to start is to lift the front wheels off the ground and 
while someone shakes one of the front wheels side to side you look for 
lost movement or "play" in the steering system. Pay particular 
attention to the tie rod ends and the wheel bearings (which can be 
checked by rocking the wheel at the top and bottom). Inspect all of 
the bushings and look carefully at the tires and how they are wearing. 
Tire pressure is VERY important. At one of our local events on one of 
the cars I checked the front tires had only about 12 psi! When I 
pointed this out to the owner she thought it was supposed to have 
32psi because that's what it said in the side of the tire. I explained 
to her that is the MAXIMUM pressure but the correct ride pressure is 
on a label in the glove box. (She never saw it in there!) While you 
are at it with the tire gauge see if there is any presure in your 
spare. The spare on the Delorean is notorious for leaking. You might 
have to have the tire reseated and seal the bead with bead sealer to 
keep it inflated. At 60 psi as per tire and label. Front tires 23 psi 
rear tires 30 psi COLD which means before you drive on them. NEVER 
adjust the pressure of a hot tire to cold specs! Check at least once a 
month.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Lynn Metz" <metzlynn_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> Group:
> 
> I know this has been adressed before (about 2 yrs. ago I think), 
but, is there a test for the u-joints in the steering mechanism?  Everytime 
I drive my car I can't help but feel like it is not as tight as it should 
be.
> Brian 16584



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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:28:48 -0000
From: badgeman46_at_dml_hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Cold start valve question (it works)

     Just for kicks, I tried disconnecting the cold start valve. It 
does indeed work for hot starting! My car has NEVER started hot 
without using a spray of Ether. I ran the car up to temp, let it sit 
enough to loose pressure, and disconnected the csv, VOILA! It started 
no problems. So evidently, this procedure works.

-Jay


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., njp548_at_dml_a... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/10/01 9:38:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> iqintermedia_at_dml_y... writes:
> 
> << One thing I have done is disconnect the blue cold
>  start valve to prevent the hot start problem >>
> Mike,



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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:43:01 -0000
From: "Sacha Prins" <sacha_at_dml_prins.net>
Subject: Me Too: Cold start valve question

Hi,

I understand this item is not yet closed as we cannot completely agree
on the use of the blue connector.

However, I also have the infamous 'warm start' problem, and for the
emergency operation I'd like to test this "blue connector fix" for
emergencies. Where is this item located (I can go with page/section
numbers from the manuals)?

A new fuel accumulator is on the way, so that should fix the problem
in the end.

Thanks,

Sacha






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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:21:31 -0700
From: Henry Breer <hbreer_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: what does the vin# mean?

Casey,

The VIN Numbers are ROUGHLY chronological.
1. No one has a complete, factory printed, list of the VIN's produced. One probably exists, but it is most likely filed away in some lawyer's office as evidence for the bankruptcy and other lawsuits. Now
that everything is settled (?) we might see one on eBay.
2. There appears to be 'missing' VIN numbers in the sequence(s).
3. The 12xxx series cars appear to have been pulled from the assembly line, sent off site for the RHD conversion, and re-(vin)numbered.
4. Some other cars have VIN plates with production dates 'out of sequence'. It is possible that there were assembly problems with these cars and they were set aside, the problem corrected, and the car
completed at a later time.

Knut Grimsrud has been working on a list he calls the Production Chronology for the past few years. It is very extensive, but not yet complete (i.e.. your car is not listed.) see
http://dmcnews.com/faq/img/news/n_vinlst.pdf  The two closest cars to yours on his list are 10255 and 10260, but neither of them show manufacturing dates.  The two closest cars that do show dates are
10251 and 10270, both of which were Dec-81 manufacture. Yours probably is too, right?

An excellent discussion of what the characters of the vin number mean was created by Rob Lamrock and can be found in the DML archives at http://dmcnews.com/backissues/dml272.html

Hank Breer
VIN 1141

Cameron Putsch wrote:

> I am now vin# 010259 and I am curious to find out if the cars vin numbers are in cronological order so I can tell which number mine was off the line. Other than that what does all that other jaz mean?
>
> Casey
>




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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:41:19 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: weird sound when taking corners

hey all,

i've noticed on my DeLorean that when i take either a left or right corner 
that i hear kind of a 'chunk' sound coming from what i think to be the rear 
of the car.  i can feel it resonate just a little thru the center console 
where i rest my arm.  this happens when i make a turn with a little stress to 
it, for instance, when entering a driveway or something like that where you 
need to make a quick turn, and not just a turn in the road. 

i had a shop near where i work put it up on a lift to inspect the suspension 
but they couldn't find anything out of the ordinary.  they remarked, 'there 
isn't too much to the suspension - it's pretty simple and we didn't see 
anything loose or really worn'.

anyone know what this is?  i believe the previous owner of my car had new 
shocks put in about two years ago by the midstate dmc club or another club 
near illinois.  his name is Bill Schaefer.  so, i don't believe it's old 
loose shocks causing it.

the problem doesn't seem to be too worrisome - just annoying and raises my 
curiosity.

Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 17:46:51 -0000
From: theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Spares

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> Those of you who drive distances and are prepared for most emergencies,
> what do you carry as backups (In addition to tools)?  My list: belts,
> alternator and fuel pump, what else should I be thinking about?

You should always carry a paperclip to jump the otterstat.
And, if you don't carry any other tools, carry a ratchet and a
10mm socket. :) If you ever have to replace something held
on with a nut and bolt, the odds are it will be a 10mm
socket size.

John Yeoman





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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 17:52:50 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Re: Spares

Heh, I drive approx 50-150 miles every night just for the fun of it, 
plus the addition of driving to work each day, and up do 500 or 600 
miles on the weekends.  (Can you tell I enjoy it?).  Yea, always 
carry tools.  As for other tools which are not so standard, bring a 
wire crimper with a set of male/female spades in ALL sizes.  Also 
bring some extra relays, and a printout of the entire wiring diagram 
(with key).  Also, have a FIRE EXTINGUISHER with you.  I know it has 
been brought up many times before, but this should never be 
overlooked in ANY car (especially DeLorean).  Get a large bottle of 
DOT-4 (GTLMA) brake fluid just in case (both clutch and brakes), and 
some extra oil.  Bring extra fuses, preferably a whole fuse kit.  
Some of those 3M clips to easily connect two wires.  Can you tell I'm 
electrical here?  Some dry towels are also nice incase of a water 
leak or if something really needs to be cleaned up.  Electrical tape 
and duct tape are also a must.  I store all of this stuff in the box 
behind the driver's seat and in the spare wheel well.  This stuff has 
saved my butt on a few occasions.  But I personally believe my car 
has treated me very well.  I am also interested in what other people 
have in their emergency kits.  With my first huge roadtrip coming up 
in a month (Minnesota, to Houston, to Tennessee, then back to MN) I 
want to make sure my car and I are ready.

Jim Reeve
MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club
DMC-6960




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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:04:14 -0000
From: johndmc57_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: My new CD player question

I installed a CD player in my "D" and I only have one question,"Why 
did I wait so long," the CD music adds so much ejoyment to driving 
this car. By the way, can someone tell me what that thing is in the 
middle of the console, it has a plugin jack and is connected to a 
black wire under the radio with and end plug that looks like a 
computer mouse connector.




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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:30:17 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: radiator cap

Ryan,

The pressed-on radiator cap has a less than 5% failure rate _at_dml_ 20 years.

DMC Joe
www.dmc.tv 
"We're here to help you"
DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>


 



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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:45:23 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Yet another Coolant Problem

David,

You said:

" I Don't think that installing the continuous bleeder can fix this, it cannot."
_____________________________________________________________________
The Engine Overheat Protector (continuous bleeder) will handle any amount of trapped air in the cooling system. I accidentally happened upon the idea of the Overheat Protector while experimenting on a way to keep the cooling system operational on a PRV with a leaky head gasket.

I do agree with you that any overheat condition should be thoroughly checked out, but the fact of the mater is that the DeLorean cooling system design is prone to coolant vapor lock. The Overheat Protector is an inexpensive and easy to install solution to this very common problem.

DMC Joe
www.dmc.tv 
"We're here to help you"
DMC Help / De Lorean Services / <dmchelp_at_dml_att.net>


 



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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:09:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter_at_dml_jurai.net>
Subject: Re: Spares

On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Les Huckins wrote:
> Those of you who drive distances and are prepared for most
> emergencies, what do you carry as backups 


Hoses, a spare spark plug and long spark plug wire, coil wire, cap, rotor,
thermostat, tire patch kit, spare bulbs, headlight...

A timing belt and tensioner pully might not be a bad thing to have around
either.

-- 
| Matthew N. Dodd  | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD  |
| winter_at_dml_jurai.net |       2 x '84 Volvo 245DL        



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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:11:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: "George C. Marshall" <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>
Subject: Re: Spares

On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Les Huckins wrote:

> Those of you who drive distances and are prepared for most
> emergencies, what do you carry as backups



An AAA card :}

It's not very heavy and it's good for taking care of problems you just
can't fix otherwise.




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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:12:54 -0400
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Re: Diecast Delorean model

Last weekend I was passing a model car store and one of my nephews
dragged me in (maybe dragged is too strong a word?).

I jokingly inquired about DeLorean models, and was delighted when the
proprietor showed me the current Sun Star America catalogue, already
featuring the 1981 DeLorean!  It shows the same picture that Randy
Atamaniuk pointed out on the Sun Star website three weeks ago:

http://www.sunstartoys.com/2701/2701.htm

The DeLorean half-page in the Sun Star catalogue looks nice, with a big
picture.  I would not mind having a copy of the current catalogue, and I
recommend it to other DMLers who have the chance to snag one.

FWIW the shop owner told me that he expects to have DeLoreans in stock
in early August.

- Mike Substelny




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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:26:09 -0000
From: "Sacha Prins" <sacha_at_dml_prins.net>
Subject: Re: Me Too: Cold start valve question

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Sacha Prins" <sacha_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> However, I also have the infamous 'warm start' problem,

Well, I found the CSV and tried the disconnect trick unfortunately to
no avail.

It takes around 20 to 25 minutes for the warmed-up car to be turned
off to not start again. If I try to restart after 15 minutes there is
fuel starvation but the car wil start. After 25 minutes I can crank
all I want (with or without the CSV disconnected) but the engine won't
start.
Hopefully this is solved by the new fuel accumulator.

Sacha





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Message: 22
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:34:40 -0000
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com
Subject: Re: Cold start valve question (it works)

If I am reading this right, you say that your car has an easier time 
starting up when hot with the CSV disconnected, than it normally does 
when plugged in. If that is correct, then you may have either a 
defective thermotime switch, or a jumper may have been inserted into 
the Hot Start Relay socket forcing the CSV to fire whenever the 
engine is cranked.

If the fuel system is storing pressure properly, then the engine will 
start instantly because the correct amount of fuel is already there. 
The fuel pump doesn't have to charge the system, it can instantly 
open the injectors. Now if the CSV is fired when the engine is 
running/starting ok, the engine will flood due to the excess fuel.

As an example, I myself do have a hot start problem. So I had a 
jumper wire inserted into the hot start relay to fire the CSV 
whenever the engine is cranked. The problem was the heat here, since 
the engine wouldn't cool quickly enough due to the ambient air temp. 
If I left my car for only a few minutes, it would have a hard time 
starting. The pressure was still high enough in the system to fire 
the injectors quickly, but the CSV would open up and flood the 
engine. The fix I used would not apply in your situation, so I'll 
leave it for another post. But I wanted to give an example of how the 
engine can flood.

By using ether to start you engine in this situation, you haven't 
been achiving a spark. More than likely, your engine has 
been "dieseling" to start up. In other words, the cylinders were so 
full of the volitile ether, that the compression alone was what 
caused the either to ignite. It was NOT the electrical spark. As the 
engine was dieseling on it's own, running on ether, the CSV was shut 
off. This stopped the excess fuel, the mixture slowly went to normal, 
and the gas was finally ignited by the spark while the ether was 
burned off. This is bad. Flooding and engine while cranking and not 
letting the fuel burn off can wash out your cylinders. The gas/petrol 
can physicly wash away the protective oil layer causing the pistons 
to damage the cylinder walls. Another part is a huge fire hazard. 
Unburned gasoline will be pumped into the exhaust. This can cause the 
catalytic converter to overheat. This isn't good for the car, and any 
road debris/leaves/etc... that touch the cat in this state can 
ignite. I've seen it happen on my own car once.

Getting back to things, try the following: Check you relay 
compartment, and verify that no jumper wires have been inserted into 
the HSR. This is a white socker located at the top of the 
compartment. Sometimes under the harness. Leave the CSV plugged in, 
but disconnect the thermotime switch that is located in the side of 
the water pump. The car should start instantly when hot. Another 
thing to do is to test the switch with an ohmmeter while the engine 
is hot (and off of course). Try that and see what you come up with.

-Robert
vin 6585



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., badgeman46_at_dml_h... wrote:
>      Just for kicks, I tried disconnecting the cold start valve. It 
> does indeed work for hot starting! My car has NEVER started hot 
> without using a spray of Ether. I ran the car up to temp, let it 
sit 
> enough to loose pressure, and disconnected the csv, VOILA! It 
started 
> no problems. So evidently, this procedure works.
> 
> -Jay




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Message: 23
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:20:50 EDT
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: what does the vin# mean?

Casey,
Check the back issues, there is a complete explanation of what each # means. 
If you cant find it let me know and I'll find it again.
Bruce Battles
Vin # 06569


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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