From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 669
Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 7:19 AM

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There are 14 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Whats missing???
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>

2. Creativity with OEM rims (was Michelin Pilot Tires)
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

3. troubles with aftermarket rims (long)
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

4. Re: Creativity with OEM rims (was Michelin Pilot Tires)
From: "Donald Ekhoff" <ekhoff_at_dml_seagullsolutions.net>

5. Re: Whats missing???
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

6. Re: troubles with aftermarket rims (long)
From: "Donald Ekhoff" <ekhoff_at_dml_seagullsolutions.net>

7. Re: Whats missing???
From: "Joseph Molino" <foxmul_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

8. Re: Turbo DeLorean
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

9. front anti roll bar rubs on inside of tires
From: delorean_pilot_at_dml_yahoo.com

10. Re: front anti roll bar rubs on inside of tires
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>

11. Battery Warning Light
From: "BDM" <bmims_at_dml_ut-texas.com>

12. New DMC Car for sale Ads
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

13. Re: Crome powder coated rims
From: billschaferabn_at_dml_aol.com

14. Re: Battery Warning Light
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 13:46:53 +0100
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>
Subject: Whats missing???

All happy with myself, I just purchased the bottom half of the Speedo cable and an Angle-drive, both missing when I got the car :-( .
Just been out to fit them ...all when OK except the Speedo is still not working. On closer inspection it looks as if the wheel is not turning the angle drive....... I can see right through where the drive rod goes on to the Speedo nut(105027) it looks like the should be a part for the square end to goes into, and I can't see it in the parts manual.

Please tell me its something really easy I'm over looking.

Cheers
Paul

VIN6463 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 12:52:38 -0400
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Creativity with OEM rims (was Michelin Pilot Tires)

Don,

I thought about having the rims chromed.  What I remember seeing on the DML
was that someone used a 'chrome colored' powder coat with good success.  I'm
not sure how well real chrome plating would stay on our rims.  Just by the
nature of chrome plating, it would be nearly impossible to get chrome to
deposit between all the fins (spokes).  If there are any thin spots, then
corrosion would set in and fake the rest off.  But then it sounds like you
have a great solution: paint everything but the exposed surfaces.  But how
do you get paint to stick to chrome?  It isn't easy.  If everything else is
black, then it would be a lot easier to keep clean.  Maybe you could even
use a flat paint that matches the color of accumulated brake dust!  Now
that's the trick!

I have learned many hard lessons about trusting 'just anyone' to do a job
right.  That is why I am considering having a DeLorean vendor sell me some
powder coated rims rather than trying to find some local guy to do it for
me.  If you want to know why I am so cynical, read my next post.

Another cool alternative that I heard about from DMC Houston is that they
sell stripped, polished & clear coated rims.  I haven't seen one in person
but hear that they have a look & finish similar to the stainless body
panels.  Warren said that they chuck them up on a lathe to polish them more
evenly.  They want $200 with exchange per rim.  For OEM-color powder
coating, they want $125 per rim.  PJ Grady is $150.




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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 13:00:37 -0400
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: troubles with aftermarket rims (long)

I have probably wasted around $2k on aftermarket low profile rims & tires.
The dealer was being real picky about making sure that the rear rims & tires
were exactly the right size & offset.  This gave me a false sense of
security because when I found out what he did to make rims fit the front, I
was seriously pissed off.  Instead of using the OEM size of 6" wide, he used
7".  This put an extra 1/2" on either side.  Since the OEM configuration on
many DeLoreans has the tire rub the sway bar (mine is no exception), it was
even worse with the wider rims.  Only in my case, it was the metal part of
the rim that rubbed the sway bar and not the rubber tire.  This severely
restricted my turning radius forcing me to make 3 point turns where I could
otherwise have just made a U-turn.  If I kept it up, I was worried that this
might score the sway bar enough for it to break.  Rob Grady told me that he
had only heard of one case of a sway bar breaking before.  This was while
the car was still under the original manufacture's warranty.  Luckily the
guy was only going around 5mph, but it still almost made him eat a curb.  At
higher speed, it would probably be worse than a trailing arm bolt breaking.

Besides the trouble I was having with swaybar scraping and reduced turning
radius, I was also having some weird vibrations at highway speeds.  Having
someone follow me and watch the front end confirmed that a front tire was
shaking sideways as though it would pivot if I were shaking the steering
wheel (rather than the wheel bouncing up & down like a balance problem).  I
got home and checked my lug nuts.  One was loose and off-center.  I took the
wheel off and checked everything out.  When I try to put the wheel back on
the hub, I realize that the lugs don't line up properly with the holes in
the rim.  Each hole was around 1 to 2mm off spec.  I know that the DeLorean
takes a 4 on 100 spacing (that's 4 bolts on a 100mm diameter circle), but it
was anyone's best guess what these rims were drilled at because each hole
was drilled at a random radius and degree position.  It was as if the
machinist drilled them with his eyes closed!

Next, I took the rear wheels off.  I found out that the spacer the dealer
had made up was too thin to hold the lug nuts.  The nuts stuck out from the
spacer by about 0.5mm which was enough to put marks on the rims where the
dealer torqued them down with an impact wrench.  Then I learned for the
first time that all DeLoreans came with 1/4" spacers on the rear hubs.
Well, if the dealer had half a brain to notice this, then he could have made
the adaptors deeper.  I mentioned this to him, and he said that he saw this
before but didn't want to bother with taking them off.  There are two
problems with this: 1) I didn't buy the style of rim I originally wanted
because with the available offset and 'minimum' adaptor thickness
requirements this rim would have stuck out 1/4" too far.  However, the
dealer never mentioned to me that the front rims were going to stick out
1/2" further on both sides of the rim!  Gag!  2) Even with my second choice
of style, the guy could have taken the spacer off and had all the room he
needed to make his adapters deep enough.

Other nice little facts that the dealer did not disclose to me:
1) He was re-drilling the front rims.
2) Re-drilling voids the manufacture's warranty.
3) the rear adaptors & rims were not mounted hubcentric.
4) Mounting the rims lugcentric (not hubcentric) also voids the
manufacture's warranty.
5) I got screwed.

Other stupid things the dealer did to my car:
1) jacked it up from the wrong points denting & cracking the epoxy on my
frame.
2) tightened the lug nuts with an impact wrench way beyond the OEM spec of
60 ft-lbs torque.  After that my car developed a pulsating brake problem.
Hummm... I wonder why?

The dealer took the front rims back to his machinist to have the lug holes
re-drilled in the right locations.  He even had me go across town with my
car so that the machinist could indeed verify the proper lug spacing.  They
called me up a few days later to pick the rims up from the machine shop.
This is something the dealer should have done, but I wanted to talk with the
machinist about making a pair of wider hubcentric spacers for the rear.
That was my official reason.  Actually, I wanted to see for myself just what
kind of idiots work in the back.  When I went to pick them up, the machinist
told me that he used an industrial form of JB-Weld (something that was much
stronger than anyone could buy retail) to hold the steel inserts that line
the lug holes.  I thought, "Oh great, JB-Weld is holding my rims together."

I get the rims home and try them on the car myself.  To my amazement, the
machinist did absolutely nothing to the rims except scratch them up a bit.
The holes were still in their previous wrong locations with the same steel
sleeves lining the holes.  I got a screwdriver and hammer and drove the
sleeves out of one of the rims, and (guess what) there was no trace of any
JB-Weld type of substance under them.  Likewise, there was no evidence that
the rims had been re-drilled a second time.

I could say a lot more, but I have already said too much.  Let this be a
lesson to the rest of you who try to find aftermarket rims to fit your
DeLoreans.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:42:15 -0700
From: "Donald Ekhoff" <ekhoff_at_dml_seagullsolutions.net>
Subject: Re: Creativity with OEM rims (was Michelin Pilot Tires)

Walter,

The first set I had polished (only) and painted.  While they looked great
new, the maintenance was an effort and the excess polish tended to make a
mess of the black paint.  The next three sets I had done by CICC and one set
is over ten years old with no problems.  I paid just over $125/wheel
including paint which I think was a real bargain.  Including transportation
it was under $600.00 for the set.  The only thing negative was that there
was some variation in the quality of the polishing work.  The original
polish (only) job showed the most porosity in the base metal and every set I
received after that was better than the one before.  The last set belong in
a museum they are so beautiful.  To be fair, that first set was the least
pretty of the batch as the paint had a "crinkle" rough texture which might
have been there to cover up a rough casting.  The last set had nice shiny
factory paint and were probably denser base metal to begin with.  These have
not been exposed to a nasty environment but compared to an other set of
aluminum rims I had done in LA recently by another company where the tires
could not be mounted without the chrome pealing, the quality from CCIC was
excellent.

I really like the idea from Houston.  This sounds like a really good look.
How does powder coat stand up to brake dust?  I had a set that had some kind
of clear coat that the brake dust stained and I could never get them clean
without stripping off the clear coat.  It might have been a urethane
clearcoat.  I think the Delorean deserves better wheel treatment than
factory stock paint and while I run one set of aftermarket rims with an
outer lip that has the Houston look, I am most pleased with the chrome stock
setup.

Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 9:52 AM
Subject: [DML] Creativity with OEM rims (was Michelin Pilot Tires)


> Don,
>
> I thought about having the rims chromed.  What I remember seeing on the
DML
> was that someone used a 'chrome colored' powder coat with good success.
I'm
> not sure how well real chrome plating would stay on our rims.  



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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:46:38 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: Whats missing???

You just happened to find one of the "missing" parts that don't hardly 
show up anywhere. Refer to Workshop Manual J:02:01 fig #4. You are 
probably missing the speedo drive cap. Remove the front left wheel and 
it is supposed to be in the center connecting the square rod from the 
ange drive to the spindle assembly. It is captured in between the rim 
and the spindle when the wheel is installed. Usually it isn't missing 
but the square hole in the center rounds out allowing the wheel to 
turn without turning the angle drive. I am suprised that the vendor 
you purchesed the parts from didn't mention at least checking it 
before ordering the other parts since when parts are missing you don't 
always know what to expect and even if it's there it was possibly 
worn out. To test the parts you already have just put a drill on the 
square of the angle drive and you should see the speedo move. (Make 
sure to turn in the correct direction, CCW).
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_b...> wrote:
> All happy with myself, I just purchased the bottom half of the 
Speedo cable and an Angle-drive, both missing when I got the car :-( .
> Just been out to fit them ...all when OK except the Speedo is still 
not working. On closer inspection it looks as if the wheel is not 
turning the angle drive....... I can see right through where the drive 
rod goes on to the Speedo nut(105027) it looks like the should be a 
part for the square end to goes into, and I can't see it in the parts 
manual.
> 
> Please tell me its something really easy I'm over looking.
> 
> Cheers
> Paul
> 
> VIN6463 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 12:03:32 -0700
From: "Donald Ekhoff" <ekhoff_at_dml_seagullsolutions.net>
Subject: Re: troubles with aftermarket rims (long)

Walt,

I agree that it is extremely difficult to find decent aftermarket rims for
our DeLoreans.  Maybe this is a blessing because that way the cars  do not
become so bastardized.

After spending the time to thoroughly research all aspects of the fitment of
aftermarket rims I am convinced that it is very unlikely that any retail rim
shop could ever pull it off without at least one aspect of your experience.

Several weeks ago I sent out information on a set of rims that can be
obtained and for very decent pricing.  I have purchased a set and they fit
and look great.  They are a sizing flook that do not require any spacers and
have no side effects that I have discovered.  Even the same company does not
offer the same size combinations in any other style of rim.  Fortunately I
like the style, as there was no choice involved.  I will resend the posting
if requested.

Really sorry about your bad experience

Donald L. Ekhoff
(408) 221-2822 (if you want to talk)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 10:00 AM
Subject: [DML] troubles with aftermarket rims (long)


> I have probably wasted around $2k on aftermarket low profile rims & tires.
> The dealer was being real picky about making sure that the rear rims &
tires
> were exactly the right size & offset.  



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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 15:05:58 -0400
From: "Joseph Molino" <foxmul_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Whats missing???

do you have the Speedo cup that mounts on the Driver's wheel?  It is about
four inches round and has the square hole for your cable to fit into?

Joseph vin 2850



----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 8:46 AM
Subject: [DML] Whats missing???


> All happy with myself, I just purchased the bottom half of the Speedo
cable and an Angle-drive, both missing when I got the car :-( .
> Just been out to fit them ...all when OK except the Speedo is still not
working. On closer inspection it looks as if the wheel is not turning the
angle drive....... I can see right through where the drive rod goes on to
the Speedo nut(105027) it looks like the should be a part for the square end
to goes into, and I can't see it in the parts manual.
>
> Please tell me its something really easy I'm over looking.
>
> Cheers
> Paul
>
> VIN6463
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:30:15 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Turbo DeLorean

Not my car... and the rest of the car needs some TLC. The RHD conversion is
not the best.

johndmc57_at_dml_yahoo.com wrote:

>
> Nice turbo set up but will you please glue your DMC sticker back
> down.;)




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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:40:05 -0000
From: delorean_pilot_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: front anti roll bar rubs on inside of tires

When I do a sharp turn to the left, my front right tire rubs on the 
roll bar. Does anyone else have this problem? Can it be fixed by 
adding a shim or spacer to the wheel? Anybody have a different 
solution? Please email direct or post to the list. Fred Lockett,   
aka. The DeLorean Pilot.




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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 23:16:32 +0100
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: front anti roll bar rubs on inside of tires

Yep I have the same ... only on a sharp right and the left rubs.. evidence
being a nice shiney part on the roll bar.

Paul
6463


----- Original Message -----
From: <delorean_pilot_at_dml_yahoo.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 10:40 PM
Subject: [DML] front anti roll bar rubs on inside of tires


> When I do a sharp turn to the left, my front right tire rubs on the
> roll bar. Does anyone else have this problem? Can it be fixed by
> adding a shim or spacer to the wheel? Anybody have a different
> solution? Please email direct or post to the list. Fred Lockett,
> aka. The DeLorean Pilot.
>
>
>
> Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
> www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:43:26 -0500
From: "BDM" <bmims_at_dml_ut-texas.com>
Subject: Battery Warning Light

I need to replace the battery warning light in the instrument panel.  Do I have to disassemble the instrument panel?  Is there easy access to this light?  I have tried to get under the dash but cannot devine a method of replacing the bulb.  The shop manuals are ambiguous.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Bobby Mims
Tyler, Texas


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 20:59:48 -0500
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: New DMC Car for sale Ads

Check out a couple of new postings on the DMCNews site at
http://www.dmcnews.com/BuyNSell/dmcforsale.html

A couple of nicely priced project cars  - $8950 (WA) and
$13000 (NYC).

Dave <<< ===also the ad-posting guy.




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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:39:49 EDT
From: billschaferabn_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Crome powder coated rims

Walt,

  I was the guy about a year ago who went through the crome powder coating of 
a set of 4 rims. I had a local company in Rockford, IL called "First Finish" 
do the work. We learned a lot from our experience. I am grateful First Finish 
stead the course and stuck it out. My old rims had lost the original paint 
from the rims and this caused a real headache. In their terminology they said 
the problem was the rims were "Gassing out" The first two times they powder 
coated the rims the flat areas around the outer edge and in the center near 
the lug nuts looked like someone threw sand on the rims during the powder 
coat process. Everything else (like the fins) looked great. Finally the thrid 
time they powder coated they left the rims heat at 600 degrees for about 12 
hours and this did the trick. The air that was trapped in the rims had to be 
cooked out to stop the sand effect. The end result was absolutely stunning. 
The color looked close to the S.S. finish and was a real eye catcher. The 
cost per wheel was $10.00 for sandblasting and $50.00 for powder coating. So 
for $240.00 I had a fantastic set of like new rims. 

Bill



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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:34:50 -0000
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Warning Light

You have to remove the instrument cluster/binnacle. This would be a 
good time to change ALL the light bulbs. Instructions are at

http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/binnacle.htm

To change the light bulbs you only need to do the first paragraph. 
They are in twist-loc connectors on the backside of the instruments. 

Dave Swingle

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "BDM" <bmims_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> I need to replace the battery warning light in the instrument 
panel.  Do I have to disassemble the instrument panel?  Is there easy 
access to this light?  I have tried to get under the dash but cannot 
devine a method of replacing the bulb.  The shop manuals are 
ambiguous.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> Bobby Mims
> Tyler, Texas





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