From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 681
Date: Friday, August 24, 2001 4:57 PM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: 1/18 scale D question
From: immerse_at_dml_pacbell.net

2. Re: Re: Idle Control ECU
From: at88mph_at_dml_mobis.com

3. Re: Molds/Body Dies
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

4. Body Reproduction (was Body Dies, People Mag.. etc.)
From: "Jeff" <Gr8old1_at_dml_aol.com>

5. RE: strange looking spoiler
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

6. Re. my 'thunk' sound
From: dmc12_at_dml_btinternet.com

7. Re: my 'thunk' sound
From: Mike Hirko <mikehirko_at_dml_tdn.com>

8. Re: Delorean in People Magazine
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

9. New leather
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

10. Re: Delorean Parts prices Then and Now
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>

11. Re: my 'thunk' sound
From: theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com

12. Re: is a good mechanic is hard to find???
From: "Joe Thome" <joethome_at_dml_jps.net>

13. Transmission End Cap Hole!
From: Jim <starbuck_at_dml_gate.net>

14. Re: my 'thunk' sound
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>

15. Re: Molds/Body Dies
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

16. Re: Speedometer at DMC Houston
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

17. Re: Hitching a different ride.
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

18. Re: strange looking spoiler
From: "Ryan Foster" <westiething_at_dml_hotmail.com>

19. Re: Speedometer at DMC Houston
From: CIAsleeper22_at_dml_aol.com

20. Re: Delorean Parts prices Then and Now
From: CBL302_at_dml_msn.com

21. Re: Delorean in People Magazine (Molds/Body Dies)
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

22. Re: Found new/original Fan Blower motors
From: shirazcupala_at_dml_home.com

23. D for sale on ebay
From: "Cohee, Michael" <mcohee_at_dml_cfginc.com>

24. Re: Re: Molds/Body Dies
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

25. Re: Delorean Parts prices Then and Now
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:09:57 -0000
From: immerse_at_dml_pacbell.net
Subject: Re: 1/18 scale D question

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., tucker11199_at_dml_y... wrote:
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., delorean502_at_dml_e... wrote:
> > Does anybody know who's delorean has been imortalized in the 
1/18th 
> > scale?  Did they use a delorean from DMC Houston? 
> > 
> > erik
> 
> 
> yeh erik, his initials are JZD.

Hello Erik,

Yes I know who's DeLorean has been imortalized!  Mine!! yes 81DMC12
owned and operated by me is the DeLorean used by SunStar. We spent 
two days with S.S measuring and taking photos at the Berkeley Marinal 
in Berkeley California last summer.In exchange for access SunStar 
agreed to use my license plate number "81DMC12" on the production 
diecast models.

As it stands now my DeLorean is the only Delorean used as the model 
for the only two Deloaren scale models ever produced...my 1/24 limited 
edition and the 1/18 scale SunStar version, thats kind of fun....

To ensure that there is no missunderstanding I would like to thank DMC 
Houston for suggesting to S.S that they contact me for access to a 
DeLorean.

Thanks and I hope this answered your question Erik

Lee
 




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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:17:09 -0500
From: at88mph_at_dml_mobis.com
Subject: Re: Re: Idle Control ECU

Just thought I'd mention, that there is an idle speed ECU for sale on ebay
right now if anyone needs one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=594553051





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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 22:30:40 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Molds/Body Dies

There was a guy who contacted me some time ago who claimed to have the
original moulds. I quizzed him over the fact that they were dumped and he
claimed there was more than one set. I put him onto Dave Howarth and even
arranged to meet at the NEC show. He even rang me on the day to say he was
coming, but he never showed up.

Martin

"Marc A. Levy" wrote:

> It could.... but it is expensive, and the laws of supply and demand have
> not yet made it a worth while investment.




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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:33:37 -0000
From: "Jeff" <Gr8old1_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Body Reproduction (was Body Dies, People Mag.. etc.)

Just as a side note i guess, There is a way to reproduce any parts 
needed, just so long as you have one of the original parts. Cad/Cam 
laser scanning. This involves just mounting the part on to a jig, 
then haveing a laser scanner go over the piece. Then on the machine, 
you can simply input a reference dimension, and the computer does the 
rest. This will allow you to accurately re machine any part.

This was in fact done to an original Shelby Cobra a few years ago by 
a Swedish company, who then tweaked a few numbers to generate a 
tighter fit, better performance, etc.. The first reproduction of the 
vehicle was actually driven by Carroll Shelby from my recollection 
who was quite impressed.


There is hope after all..

-Jeff
Norwich, CT.
Future D owner.
VIN # ????




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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:30:31 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: strange looking spoiler

I've been studying the car. There's a couple of oddities about it. You
noticed the front spoiler, but it also has a rear spoiler. Is that OEM? I've
never actually seen a D with a rear spoiler. 

In the shot of the interior, left of the binnacle it looks like he has a GPS
or something with a small LCD screen. 

And why is it that he doesn't mention the condition of the dash. He's got a
mat, so it's got to be beaten up, but HOW bad? In my search for my D, I was
surprised to see how many had dashboards that were beaten to hell but they
NEVER mentioned it on the phone. Is it so common that people assume that
they are all bad?


Travis
Greenville, SC
Vin 3512




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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:39:17 -0000
From: dmc12_at_dml_btinternet.com
Subject: Re. my 'thunk' sound

Hi all.

Is the noise definitely coming from the rear?, I had a very similar 
sound in exactly the same situation i.e. when I turned fairly sharp 
corners I had a clunk. This turned out to be a loose steering rack, 
this problem is emphasized if you have had new lower springs on the 
front of the car.

It's worth a look and if it is play in the steering rack you can 
remove a shim (if they haven't all been removed already!) to tighten 
it up again.


Regards

James RG
England





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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:40:29 -0700
From: Mike Hirko <mikehirko_at_dml_tdn.com>
Subject: Re: my 'thunk' sound

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

<snip>  can anyone think of another possibility? someone suggested i might have
bad motor mounts - i'm still investigating that one. <snip>

Andy,
    Well, could be motor mounts. Here's another thing to check, but it's so
simple I hate to even bring it up - have you checked to see if your battery is
anchored down solidly???  Could it be trying to tip over in a sharp turn???

Mike Hirko
VIN  1387





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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 22:40:36 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Delorean in People Magazine

Some may be interested to learn that the Triumph  TR8 died a death in the US
market in 1981 due to the same problems whch caused DeLorean's demise
ultimately.

It was showcased on Top Gear this evening. The TR8 was built purely for the US
market and due to the exchange rate in 1981, British Leyland had to stop
production.

It's also interesting to note the TR7's image was of the "underpowered wedge".

The footage of the TR7 and 8 they showed ont he programme was taken from the
Heritage Motor Museum in Gaydon (where we go annually for Supercar Sunday)

Martin

Chris Parnham wrote:

>
> Poor financial control, and over-optimistic sales predictions are hardly
> ever mentioned as important factors in the companies demise.




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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:37:05 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: New leather

The leather on my seats have dried over years of neglect. It seems that the
trade-off for low mileage means leather that was not tended to regularly. I
got what I thought was a very reasonable quote ($800) to reupholster both
seats and the passenger side knee pad. I was told that the GM black leather
matches what is in the car now (possibly a parts x-over?) and that the
reupholstery and stitching would be identical to the original. Being
considered a collectible now, how will this procedure affect its value
positively or negatively?

ps-Also, when I get it done, I'll get the exact source of the leather and
vinyl so it can be added to the X-over lists.

Travis
Greenville, SC
VIN 3512



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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:01:45 -0700
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Delorean Parts prices Then and Now

A better comparison would be comparing part prices with new car factory
prices for like parts. I think you'll find the DeLorean parts very
competitive and compared to some exotic's down right reasonable.

Bruce Benson



What I did was averaged out the prices,and it came out to a
> average overall,whopping 52% INCREASE on AVERAGE over 1982
> prices,remember this is a Average sampling on 25 parts on the
> estimate,

> Claude
> 000570





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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:04:15 -0000
From: theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: my 'thunk' sound

This may seem obvious, but do you have anything loose rolling around
in your trunk?  I had a strange noise when I slowed down/turned, & it
turned out to be my fire extinguisher rolling around in the trunk. 
Also, it could be the body sliding right & left on the frame.

John Yeoman




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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:53:34 -0700
From: "Joe Thome" <joethome_at_dml_jps.net>
Subject: Re: is a good mechanic is hard to find???

Terrific idea Mike. While we're suggesting things we'd like to see, I'd like
to see a good DeLorean mechanic make a scheduled run along the West Coast,
perhaps once a year,  from San Diego to Seattle.  Perhaps he could travel
along Interstate 5 and make house calls from the Interstate. I would think
that could be made profitable for the mechanic and it would certainly help
out the DeLorean owners who might not otherwise know of a good mechanic and
find it too difficult to get to the centers specializing in DeLorean
maintenance and repairs.

Joe






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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:40:51 -0700
From: Jim <starbuck_at_dml_gate.net>
Subject: Transmission End Cap Hole!

http://www.gate.net/~starbuck/endcap.jpg

Check out this photo.

    I heard a slight whining then a thud. I spoke to PJ Grady and they
told me the nut had backed off and bored a hole out the back of the
transmission cap!!.   I understand one way to repair it is  to have it
welded since the part is very hard to find. PJ Grady is looking for one
but since the car is my daily driver and I'm sure the repair shop will
be hesitant to weld it.  I wanted to see if anyone one the list might
have one off a parts car?

Jim Sleeth
81, Stick 45K
starbuck_at_dml_gate.net




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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:12:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>
Subject: Re: my 'thunk' sound

I have a similar sound in my car. I was told by Don at DMC Garden Grove
that there are bearings in the rear of the car somewhere and the bearing a
little bit smaller than the casing that it is in. He believes that the
sound is being made by that bearing(s) that shift around.

He actually did a much better job of explaining it than I just did. I just
did a poor job of listening. Has anyone else heard of this before?

-Christian




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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:22:06 -0000
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Molds/Body Dies

Industrial Economics 101 time. 

This thread comes up from time to time. What people seem to ignore is 
simple economic forces. There were about 8000 cars made, Most of them 
are still around in some form. The ones being driven are driven less 
every year, hence exposed to lower chance of accidents. The ones that 
are neglected or wrecked become parts cars for the others. As long as 
these stay in equilibrium, there are enough used "hard" parts around 
and the prices stay stable. In addition, it is amazing how badly a 
stainless part can be bent, and still be repaired by a competent 
worker. Not many stainless parts are bent badly enough to require 
replacement without destroying the rest of the car. 

So there is not, and probably never will be, a strong demand for 
stainless parts. They are the most recyclable part of the car!

Think about the cost of reproducing the SS parts. No one will invest 
the amount it would take, considering the small number of parts 
needed in a reasonable amount of time. Keep in mind that the cost of 
reproduction is not just the labor and the stainless, it includes the 
cost of the machinery spread over the number of parts made in a 
reasonable amount of time. It would take a long time to make back a 
multi-million-dollar investment selling a few dozen fenders per year, 
unless you charged more than the whole car is worth for each one!

The current vendors concentrate (lucky us) on parts that wear out or 
deteriorate with age because that is where the demand and the profit 
is. Original door struts, for example, from parts cars are valueless. 

Dave Swingle


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., srubano_at_dml_o... wrote:
> They can be reproduced but the cost to do so would make the body 
> panels that are made from them probably TWICE the amount the 
> originals cost now. Maybe in the future when all body panel 
> inventories are gone....then maybe someone may make them...but I 
> doubt it. 




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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:20:29 -0600
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: Speedometer at DMC Houston

The speedo in this image is the first prototype that we had made for a
completely electronically driven speedometer. The fact that it is in a
completely metric cluster is just a coincidence, it was one that we happened
to have lying around to be fitted in.

We have yet to install it in a car or test it all, the idea behind it is to
eventually replace the angle drive completely with this item. We'll be
testing and refining this over the next year or so and gauge demand for it
at the same time. It's also dependent on the supply of angle drives, too, so
don't expect to see it available for sale until sometime late next year at
the earliest.

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company
Houston, Texas 

281/568-9573
800/USA-DMC1
http://www.delorean.com


> From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
> Subject: Speedometer at DMC Houston
> 
> I was reviewing some of the video I took at the DMC Houston facility
> last week, when I noticed somthing that I was surprised I didn't see
> when I was there.  There was a complete, metric, instrument cluster
> on top of the shelf by the front desk.

> Jim Reeve
> MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club
> DMC-6960




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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:43:13 -0500
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Hitching a different ride.

(Moderators Note: I agree, this would be a good item for someone to set up a poll about. It can be done in Yahoogroups, no problems.)


Does yahoogroups have polls like we used to do at egroups? This would be a
good poll.


----- Original Message -----
From: <petleech_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: [DML] Hitching a different ride.


> Just curious to know, but what do DeLorean owners drive other than their
> beloved stainless cars? I don't whether its just coincidence or a trend
that most Owner's I've met own two exotics.



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Message: 18
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:55:53
From: "Ryan Foster" <westiething_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: strange looking spoiler

Well,
Your right the spoiler is different, but did you see the red next to the 
passanger door seal?

                         Ryan- vin.#16301





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Message: 19
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 00:09:04 EDT
From: CIAsleeper22_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Speedometer at DMC Houston

I live here in Houston and I drop by frequently to talk to Steve, Warren, and 
the rest of the gang there at DMC Houston. The speedometer you are looking at 
is something Steve is working on right now. Im not sure how much of a secret 
this is supposed to be at the moment so I wont spit out too much... but Ill 
promise you it will be a VAST improvement over the existing speedos and wont 
give you the trouble the stock one does. It really is a nifty device.

Justin
5172



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Message: 20
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 04:23:15 -0000
From: CBL302_at_dml_msn.com
Subject: Re: Delorean Parts prices Then and Now

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> --- CBL302_at_dml_m... wrote:
> What I did was averaged out the prices,and it came out
> to a  average overall,whopping 52% INCREASE on AVERAGE
> over 1982  prices
> - - - - - - -
> 
> I guess that is interesting, but I'm not sure what the
> word "whopping" adds to the message.  Are you trying
> to say that you are surprised by the increase or do
> you feel that the increase cannot be justified by the
> passage of time?  Seriously, I'm curious.


  All in all, though I would long for 1982 prices, I think
> the pricing on most DeLorean parts is reasonably
> competitive with the parts for any other car, new or
> old.
> 
> Just my 2
> 
> Dick Ryan
> VIN 16867


No,the Main point that I was trying to MAKE is that our cars are 
worth more in parts than as a car in whole! So what is happening is 
Deloreans are being parted out,rather that being repaired,as you can 
see on the auction sites,and parts for sale areas,With a decent 
delorean averaging appox.$13,000,and one that needs work at well 
UNDER $10,000,and the average parts Cost to repair ratio at  $10,000+ 
(with labor),at TODAY'S prices would cost at least the same PRICE or 
More (depending who does the labor)as the price of purchase, and then 
you WOULD still have a Delorean at the $13,000 level (Not including 
labor)THE other point is parts prices should be in line with the 
VALUE of the car(our Deloreans did NOT increase by 52%++++++)So for 
the people THAT are restoring or just trying to get their deloreans 
running,they will buy used rather than new,hence the parting out of 
Deloreans.ie:DO the MATH,Example: who wants to spend $7000.00 for a 
NOS. Delorean Frame(not including labor)on a car that was bought for 
$5000.00,PART IT !! That is what will happen to that car,unless 
someone else parts out another Delorean,to fix that car,it becomes a 
feeding frenzy!
Another example $5000.00 plus for a NOS motor or tranny on a $8,000 
Delorean (again labor not included)again because of the worth of the 
vehicle VS the cost of NOS,another Delorean has to be parted to fix 
the $8,000 car,or that car becomes a parts car,a catch22,if you will, 
when it comes to Deloreans.I do not know what your lifestyle or 
income,but for some people to spend a $1000.00 for a NOS Fuel 
Distrubtor,and then add about a dozen other NOS parts usually needed 
and that will push,some people into either parting it,(if the parts 
cannot be located used)or selling it for a low price,putting it into 
the "buy" price range,of a car to buy for parts.Another 
example:during the price inflation years on Ferraris,EVEN the MOST 
wrecked or Burned Ferrari,would be brought back into mint condition 
because their VALUE to PARTS was well worth investing the money into 
NOS parts to repair them,TODAY you can even see ferraris being parted 
out,because their NOS parts to(car) value has depreciated AND their 
value as used parts HAS INCREASED!! BUT with Deloreans it is much 
worse,the NOS parts to(car) value ratio is just,not there,therefore 
like me, you have to be into it for the LOVE of the car.  

Claude
000570   





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Message: 21
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 04:23:38 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: Delorean in People Magazine (Molds/Body Dies)

IMHO it will never pay for anyone to create hard dies to reproduce the 
body panels. They could never be payed off against the production run, 
it can only be done in a large expensive press and the amount of 
stainless steel sheet required is immense. I believe that there will 
come a time that another alternative will work. That is the creation 
of a bucking block which is constructed out of wood and can be used to 
produce a limited quantity of parts and also repair them. This is how 
the car was prototyped and is a quick and dirty way to produce small 
quantities of formed sheet metal parts. You take a good part and make 
a wooden form that fits inside it. Then you beat a piece of sheet 
metal over the form and you have a part. Of course it will take a lot 
of smoothing and polishing to get a finished part as opposed to 
pressing it out but it can be done. As body panels get harder to find 
panels that were given up for dead or too expensive to repair start to 
look good. Old beaters will give up their lives to become parts cars 
as prices on the panels go up. Hoarders who have stocked parts will 
start to unload when the prices climb. In short there will be a lot of 
parts for a long time and when the need arises they too can be 
reproduced. The result of the destruction of the dies only means that 
the Delorean will never again be mass produced ( which should 
eventually cause the value of the car to go up?)
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757






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Message: 22
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 04:48:00 -0000
From: shirazcupala_at_dml_home.com
Subject: Re: Found new/original Fan Blower motors

I assume you're talking about the air-conditioner/heater blower 
motor.  Could you provide the GM or NAPA part number for that 
motor?  Did you find that replacing it improved performance and/or 
made it quieter?

thanks!
shiraz

======
Seattle, WA
DeLorean #2860

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Bryn Potter (NEC)" <v-brynp_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> This blower motor is an original General Motors part carried at 
most
> auto parts stores. 
> I found mine at NAPA.
> 
> Thanks
> ~Bryn
> 
> 





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Message: 23
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:10:48 -0400
From: "Cohee, Michael" <mcohee_at_dml_cfginc.com>
Subject: D for sale on ebay

Since we are all looking at the that car on ebay and commenting on the
photos. I happened to notice on the picture of the instrument dash that the
car is idleing but there is no voltage reading??? I am looking for a my
first D but this one is scaring me...the red lining along the door trim, the
dash, a different spoiler....who knows what else. The car I really liked was
the one that ended on ebay with reserve not met on thursday that was from
canada. Based on the pictures and the description of repairs the car has
been redone and is ready to go, vin #17094. Anyone know much about this car.
It looked great.

Mike c 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 24
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:12:08 -0400
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: Molds/Body Dies

David Swingle wrote:

> This thread comes up from time to time. What people seem to ignore is
> simple economic forces. There were about 8000 cars made, Most of them
> are still around in some form.

Even under these economic conditions, it *would* be worthwhile for someone to
reproduce the dies, if they intended to make more brand new DeLoreans.  Not a
likely scenario!

Imagine an alternate universe in which the dies were not sunk in the ocean.
Would anyone have bothered to use them yet?  I doubt that even the left front
fender would be worth a production run for many years to come.  The dies
would be gathering dust somewhere.

Perhaps in a century or two, when the supply of stainless panels becomes
truly critical, it will be possible to make new ones using the latest Super
Molecular Reproductionizer that everyone will have in their basement.

Until then: don't worry, drive stainless.

- Mike Substelny




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Message: 25
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:44:35 -0000
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Delorean Parts prices Then and Now

Claude - There isn't a new car being made today that you can't
make the same statement about.  If you were to go up to the 
parts counter at any Ford dealership and order all of the parts
you need to build a brand new Ford Focus, you will spend
about 3 times the price of the car fully assembled.  Plus you 
have to paint them and put them together.  There are enough
reproduction parts you could assemble an early Mustang or 
Camaro from completely new parts, for about $35,000.  There 
aren't many early Mustangs or Camaros selling for that kind 
of money without verifiable history - and they rust!  DeLorean
parts pricing is very fair and is obviously what the market
will bear.

You are always better off buying a fully restored car
than having one restored or restoring it yourself.  There
are Very Few exceptions to this statement.

Mike


> 
> No,the Main point that I was trying to MAKE is that our cars are 
> worth more in parts than as a car in whole! 




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