From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 696
Date: Thursday, September 06, 2001 6:20 AM

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There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. non-obvious vacuum leak
From: Peter Lucas <>

2. Re: storage AND INSURANCE!

3. Re: Door Lock Module (long)
From: "Walter" <>

4. oil pressure light sender

5. RE: oil pressure light sender
From: "Willie Mack" <>

6. DeLorean raffle
From: "Joe Thome" <>

7. Re: oil pressure light sender
From: "Walter" <>

8. Any want to trade your DeLorean (model) for mine?
From: Joe Fedeli <>

9. Re: people and air intake
From: François Laplante <>

10. pictures of intake
From: "Cameron Putsch" <>

11. Internally or Externally balanced?
From: "Marc A. Levy" <>

12. fuel line metal tube
From: "Walter" <>

13. Car Show at Topping Virginia
From: "Dave Sontos" <>

14. Seven twos
From: "K Creason" <>

15. DeLorean Midwest Tech Session/Car Show
From: "David Swingle" <>

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 22:30:32 -0400
From: Peter Lucas <>
Subject: non-obvious vacuum leak

A few months ago I replaced my water pump (an *excellent* way to get 
to know your engine compartment, BTW).  Before this procedure, my 
engine ran flawlessly. Afterwards, I found myself a disappointed 
member of the Slightly-Rough-Idle-When-Cold Club.  Naturally I 
started looking for a loose wire or a vacuum leak.  I looked 
*everywhere*. Couldn't find a thing.  I was just about to throw in 
the towel and take my manifold off again to check those deep 
connections until...

Last night, for unrelated reasons, I happened to be underneath my D. 
As I lay there enjoying the view, I happened to glance at the front 
of the automatic transmission. "What", I wondered, "is that funny 
bent tube sticking out of the front of my transmission?"  Then I 
noticed the vacuum hose dangling right below it. In a flash of 
insight I put two and two together. Then I put tube and hose 
together.  My engine has been purring happily ever since.

The front of the transmission would have been the *last* place I 
would have looked for a vacuum leak resulting from a water pump swap, 
but evidently I disturbed the line leading from the engine to the 
transmission fluid pressure modulator (which is what, as it turns 
out, we are talking about) enough to break the connection.

So, there's another item to add to the "where to look for air leaks" checklist.

--Pete Lucas
    VIN #06703


Message: 2
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 03:48:55 -0000
Subject: Re: storage AND INSURANCE!

I think you hit on a very important point! Most people never even 
consider the insurance point of view on a stored car. In most cases it 
is not covered under the usual homeowner's policy. In some states if 
you discontinue liability insurance you must surrender the license 
plates. It is very important that you contact your broker or agent for 
guidance as the rules vary from state to state. If you have classic or 
special policy insurance they can advise on how to maintain 
"collision" insurance during storage. You won't be too happy if the 
spring on the garage door decides to let go and takes out your hood 
and windshield or the ladder you hang over the car falls on it! Most 
damage during storage occurs from things bumping into the car or 
falling on it. In some cases I have seen owners put thick blankets 
over the car with pieces of plywood on top and then a cover over it 
all. Keep sunlight off of the tires and no spark producing motors 
nearby (the sparking creates ozone which speeds up the aging of rubber 
and plastic). I have also seen owners park the car on a tarp to keep 
any moisture from comming up through the floor into the car. This is 
why a car caccoon makes some sense especially for long term storage. 
You are the best judge of the storage conditions and what you have to 
prepare for, just remember the more you do to prepare the car for 
storage (even short-term) the easier and better condition it will be 
in when (and if) you take it out of storage.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> I agree with both Steve and Dave's advice with one exception:
> you should not let the suspension hang unsupported.  This will 
> damage the suspension bushings.  If your tires are older, you 
> may just want to leave the car on the ground and replace your
> tires when you reactivate the car.  Don't forget to keep at 
> least comprehensive insurance coverage on the car while it is
> in storage.  That will protect your car if the building collapses
> around it.
> Mike


Message: 3
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 01:44:20 -0400
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: Re: Door Lock Module (long)

John, ahem (big smile)

Awhile back there was a technical discussion on how the door lock module
works.  Someone (I don't remember who) drew up a schematic diagram.  I went
poking through my door lock module and found a typo in his schematic.  I
also wrote up a theory of operation of what every component in the module
does.  With a lot of help from other list members and several revisions
along the way, we pretty well said everything that could be said about how
that module works.

Since you recently said some interesting things about these modules, I got
mine out again and looked it over.  According to your description, my door
lock module is DHC 110 / 23 409 Iss 4.  Thus, my lock module is the latest
known version according to your theory.  Considering that my car is an
earlier VIN (03633) and it has the latest version, then in a perfect world
we could guess that only cars earlier than mine might have had the earlier
version lock modules which would be a minority.

But in this world, I'm not so sure that the supposed version numbers that
you see are indeed version numbers.  They could mean anything.  We could
guess that "Iss" stands for "Issue #".  After all, those Irish men who wrote
the service manuals called just about every other part in the car by some
un-American sounding dialect anyway.  Even if "Iss 4" is the best version,
it still is a POS for 3 reasons:

1) The first diode is way under-rated and burns up.
2) The relays are way under-rated for the current they are switching.  They
can stick closed, burn up solenoids and cause people to get stuck in cars.
3) There is the problem that you mentioned that some of them trip on their
own.  Here is my explanation of it: The position indicating switches in the
doors tell the lock module what the door locks are doing.  These switches
are SPDT that may not always end up with a solid connection in either throw
position.  If the connection is intermittent enough to fluctuate with the
vibration of normal driving, then it causes the lock module to continually
power the solenoids causing them to burn up and possibly trapping someone in
the car.

In order to honestly say that reason #3 is legitimate, I would have to look
over the schematic again, re-read my theory of operation and do some head
scratching.  I heard a rumor that this has happened on enough DeLoreans to
warrant designing this fault to be accounted for in the LockZilla module.
If solenoids were burning up but the relays in the OEM modules were fine,
then the problem must have been elsewhere.  And that 'elsewhere' was the
lock position switches.  I don't know if this has really happened on any

My advice for everyone on the list: If you still have an original door lock
module in your car, DISCONNECT it.  All original modules have unsafe design
flaws.  Replacing the weak parts in the module will not keep you safe from
reason #3.  But if you are everyone on the list, your eyes probably blurred
over several paragraphs ago and you skipped to the next message by now.

John -- If you want to go in the business of remanufacturing door lock
modules the way you do with fuel senders, radiator fans & such, then resolve
reason #3.  If it is not a problem, then run amuck with your rebuilds.
Otherwise you are going to need a new circuit board in that module and the
case probably won't be big enough for it.  You will need big relays and a
smarter logic circuit.  To make a really successful product, you will need
to make your system upgradeable a la carte to take alarms, keyless remote
entry and door launchers.  I already added the keyless remote entry upgrade
to my LockZilla, and I love it.  When the door launchers become available,
I'm getting them for sure.  If you care, bring some modules to the SEDOC
later this month and we can sit down together and play with them like mad

Other DML members have complained that we are trying to re-invent the wheel
by competing with the Zilla product line and that our efforts would be
better spent if we instead put them into fixing unresolved problems
remaining with our cars.  If you read my theory of operation about the lock
modules, then you will learn that I am more qualified than most do design &
build a lock module from scratch that would be cheaper and better than the
LockZilla.  But instead I dove into totally unfamiliar territory by finding
a way to make convex side mirrors to fix the blind-spot problem on our cars.
I invested the better part of a few days and several hundred dollars, but I
did it!  After the SEDOC meeting later this month, the vendors present will
have helped me fine tune and debug this product.  Then I will be spending
time I don't have on making these mirrors for them to sell.  Maybe it will
be profitable.  But one thing is for sure: this is a hobby.  It doesn't owe
me any money.  If the cars become more cool because of me, then that makes
me more cool, too.

DeLoreans are cool.  A DeLorean has me for an owner.  That makes me also
cool.  May coolness be upon you and your DeLorean.

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 4
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 01:30:26 EDT
Subject: oil pressure light sender

hey all,

today i tried to put a new oil pressure sender in because my original one is 
leaking a little oil.  but i can't get a socket (23 mm), wrench, pliers, 
anything on it enough to turn it. the catalytic converter and muffler bracket 
are in the way!!

any tips?? 

1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 5
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 12:18:51 -0400
From: "Willie Mack" <>
Subject: RE: oil pressure light sender

Andy i put in a new oil pressure sender this summer.  I remember it being a
tight fit in there but it is possible to get a socket in there.  Just get
creative with universals and extenstions, and take your time.  It may turn
only a quarter of an inch each time, but eventually it will come out.

Hope that helps
  Vin 5043

-----Original Message-----
From: []
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 1:30 AM
Subject: [DML] oil pressure light sender

hey all,

today i tried to put a new oil pressure sender in because my original one is
leaking a little oil.  but i can't get a socket (23 mm), wrench, pliers,
anything on it enough to turn it. 


Message: 6
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:44:43 -0700
From: "Joe Thome" <>
Subject: DeLorean raffle

For what it's worth, a Public Broadcast System television station in Fresno, California, is offering an '81 DeLorean as the prize in a raffle costing $50 per ticket or six tickets for $250. Stephanie, whom I spoke with at the station, said the car has only 18,000 miles on it and is in mint condition. I failed to ask her whether the car is painted or is unpainted. I also failed to ask her the color of the interior. The last five digits of the Vehicle Identification Number are: 02245. She said the car belonged to one of the stations member supporters who donated the car to the station for the raffle. The station can be reached by calling 559 266-1800. Its address is: KMTF-TV, 1544 VanNess Ave., Fresno, CA 93721. E-mail address is:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 7
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 12:48:31 -0400
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: Re: oil pressure light sender

I have changed two oil senders so far, and it isn't easy finding something
that fits.  I could not find a 23mm socket anywhere -- NAPA, Snap-On, Pep
Boys, Discount Auto, Sears, etc.  I ended up using a slightly larger size
American socket.  The fit wasn't perfect, but it was good enough.  It's been
a while, so I don't remember if I used a swivel extension or a straight one.
On one of the cars I did, some thick nasty looking oil gushed out when I
removed the sender, so watch out.  I was ready for it on the second car, and
barely anything dripped out.  I had the oil drained on both motors, too.

Walt    Tampa, FL

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
> today i tried to put a new oil pressure sender in because my original one
> leaking a little oil.  but i can't get a socket (23 mm), wrench, pliers,
> anything on it enough to turn it. the catalytic converter and muffler
> are in the way!!


Message: 8
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:54:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Fedeli <>
Subject: Any want to trade your DeLorean (model) for mine?

     Does anyone have the pewter (heavy) DeLorean (1/43 scale) with the
doors up that they would want to trade for one with the doors down
(manufactured from the mid '80's)?  I have one (closed door version) in
perfect original condition I would like to trade for one with the doors up. 
Might throw in some cash too for the right one...any takers out there? 
Please email me directly if interested.  Thanks!


Message: 9
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 11:07:08 -0400
From: François Laplante <>
Subject: Re: people and air intake

Please send pictures of intake!


Message: 10
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:06:43 +0200
From: "Cameron Putsch" <>
Subject: pictures of intake

[MODERATOR NOTE - the Files section is at  ]

When I get the intake pictures, I will upload them for all to see. :)

Casey at


Message: 11
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 15:19:27 -0400
From: "Marc A. Levy" <>
Subject: Internally or Externally balanced?

Does anyone know if the DeLorean engine is internally or externally


Message: 12
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 21:25:53 -0400
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: fuel line metal tube

I am replacing my fuel line (part # 106983) and forgot to order the
compression rings that go with it.  According to my tube sizing gauge, this
fuel line appears to be a standard 5/16th inch metal tube and would
therefore take standard American plumbing compression rings.  Is this true,
or should I order the compression rings from a D vendor?  Time is of the
essence with this project.  I thought something like this would have a
metric size to it.  No?

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 13
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 20:29:21 -0400
From: "Dave Sontos" <>
Subject: Car Show at Topping Virginia

Just a note to remind everyone of the Wings and Wheels car show at Hummel Air Field in Topping Virginia on Saturday September 29th from 8 AM to 4 PM. Check the web site for more information. We were lined up next to the runway last year and had a front row seat of all the airplanes landing and taking off.

Dave Sontos
VIN 02573
NRA Member

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 14
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 21:02:42 -0500
From: "K Creason" <>
Subject: Seven twos

I rolled the seven twos today. I was close to house so I went around the
block and did a u-ey and parked right in the driveway at 22,222.2 miles.
I've got a picture (including the dash logo) if anyone is really interested
in seeing it.

But-- what I'm really wondering since it's only one month from the car's
20th birthday (10/81 build)-- do we have records or ways to decode exactly
when our car was assembled? Like what day of the month, or portion of the

And secondly, for our Irish friends on the list, I'd like a list of good
Irish names and phrases to speak to young girl when she's being good (and
rarely, bad. :-)
And I haven't named her yet, either; so some good Irish girl's names would
be handy to choose from.

#4687 (10/81) Houston
coming up on one year of ownership, too.

I read this somewhere:
"most experts agree that the end of the world will come by accident, most
likely. That's where we come in; we're Computer Experts, we make accidents."


Message: 15
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 22:08:13 -0000
From: "David Swingle" <>
Subject: DeLorean Midwest Tech Session/Car Show

Kind of a late announcement (sorry) but this Saturday September 8 is 
the DeLorean Midwest Connection club technical meet in the Chicago 
Area. We'll be doing some of the usual maintenance on members' cars 
and we have a couple of unusual attractions. 

James Espey of DMC Houston will bring the "Black Car" - a 
demonstrator of the new High-Output PRV developed by DMC Houston. And apparently some other goodies that he hasen't let me in on. 

Marty Maier of the Mid-States club will be installing one of his 
suspension kits on a member's car. 

Rich Weissensel (with a lot of help!) will be doing a "body lift" on 
one of his project cars. It will arrive in one piece and leave in two 
(we hope). As an added inducement to dig in Rich will provide snacks 
and refreshments. 

Contact me off-list for information on attendance - dswingle(AT) Contact Don Gowler regarding club membership  - 

This is in conjunction with our appearance at the British Car Union 
show on Sunday September 9. Information on the BCU is at It is in a new location this year at Moraine Valley 
College in Palos Hills IL. 

Dave Swingle


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