From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 724
Date: Monday, October 01, 2001 5:21 AM

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There are 11 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Miniture lamps side marker

2. a/c pulley bearings bad design
From: "Walter" <>

3. Re: Door Openers

4. Re: a/c pulley bearings bad design
From: "at88mph" <>

5. RE: Here's the air box picture!
From: "Scott Mueller" <>

6. Re: Wacky tach

7. Re: a/c pulley bearings bad design

8. I've found yet another biased Delorean review..
From: "Jeff" <>

9. Whose Delorean is this??
From: "Jeff" <>

10. my attitude about DeLorean (long)

11. Re: Whose Delorean is this??

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 02:12:05 -0000
Subject: Miniture lamps side marker

Group, Well I might as well go around the car. The side marker lamps 
original from the factory are 12 volt 4 watt Thorn brand. Weird #'s 
and a weird style name. I'm not familier with there style # they use 
and it isn't in the catalog Sylvania/Osram. They are 12 volt and most 
of the 12 volt bulbs have a 200 or 300 hour life rating. If you go to 
the 14 volt bulb,G 31/2 style glass which is the small round glass. 
Then #53 14.4 volt 0.12 amps 1000 hr life rating will work just fine 
in all outer marker holders. 
If you want the longer glass style which is T-31/4, Mini Bayonet, 
then the 1816,1815,1891,1889,1893 or 1892. They will all fit and have 
different hr's of life and different current draw. 1893 has the 
highest current draw at 0.33 amps and 2500 hr's life rating.
Hope this help
John hervey


Message: 2
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 03:04:08 -0400
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: a/c pulley bearings bad design

I am complaining about the a/c pulley bearings on my DeLorean.  I replaced
them about 7K miles ago, and the lower one went bad again!  I'm very sure
that the cause of the problem is that it got cooked by the heat from the
muffler.  My original bearings were bad on the car when I got it, and it had
around 8600 miles on it then.  So what is the deal with these bearings?  Are
we supposed to replace them sooner than every 10K miles?  Or is there a
better heat shield available out there that is larger than the OEM that
protects this bearing?  If no one makes it, then I'll have a local shop
custom make one.

Okay, I'm through venting now.
Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 3
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 10:10:40 -0000
Subject: Re: Door Openers

Granted while I have a 3rd party set of door openers installed, I can 
tell you so far what I've thought of mine, and both of the current 
designs available from the vendors offering both products. Although I 
will give a disclaimer that most of what I'm basing this off of (in 
the way of their products/designs) comes from what I've seen posted 
to the DML.

My car has 2-15 lb. solenoids installed to open the doors. After 20 
years of dust, and lack of lubrication, they have a difficult time 
opening. In fact, one isn't ever strong enough to open the drivers 
door. Actuators from what I've seen online have a pulling power of up 
to 35 lbs. These would be much more well suited to open the doors.

As for using existing wiring inside the doors, my only guess is that 
the feed intended for the side mirror heaters will be used. Now my 
car has a heavier gague wire installed for my solenoids, and it gets 
pretty warm as it is when it comes to opening the doors. The existing 
wires to be used are thinner. With the electrical problems my car has 
had in the past (inertia switch, idle speed motor, door lights, 
etc...), I don't fully trust these wires. It's nothing hereditary 
about DeLorean's per se, it's just that I don't trust these wires in 
my car. While you may not fish any wires with the other kit, you'll 
still have to cut and splice everything in one way or another. Also, 
on my car when you hit the button to pop the door open, the lights 
flicker, and the wires get hot. So they look to be pulling a pretty 
good load.

Running new wires for the door actuators shouldn't be a problem at 
all. It just appears to be a little more labour intensive in as you 
have to remove the headliners. And you have to fish the wires behind 
the trim panels in the back, and the hollow pillar of the doors. Some 
tape, a coat hanger, and a little patience, and you're all set.

Because of my existing set up, and the by personal choice from what 
I've seen so far, I would have to go with the kit from Darryl 
Tinnerstet. But before anyone makes a choice, a side by side 
comparison is really whats nessisary. Looking by the size of the 
wiring on the back of the actuators, you my be able to use that wire 
that's already in the door. Thus you may not even need to install 
additional wiring.

But make no mistake, niether kit appears to offer a simple plug and 
play solution. In either case, you will still need to invest some 
time and a good amount of work to get everything going on either kit. 
Wiring aside, you still need to mount the openers, and attach them to 
the bellcranks. And of course you'll need to lube the linkage. And an 
added item, I wouldn't think of installing either kit without first 
upgrading the central locking system. Wheather you upgrage the 
locking module per Technical Library instructions, or you buy a Lock 
Zilla it's up to you. If it's too late for one or both doors, plan on 
buying a new lock solenoid(s). Plus don't forget to re-tourque your 
doors, and (if nessisary) get new door struts for either system to 
work properly.

Anywho, untill someone actually gets one of these two venders door 
opening kits installed, or gets a hands-on comparison, nothing else 
can really be said. Before we can make a truly educated decision, we 
need to know all facts first. Pulling power, electrical load, weight, 
installation times, etc... And even other features or the systems 
themselves: alarms, engine kills, etc... Even then, I'd still like to 
know what's included with the kits.

I'm not knocking any one competitor, or vendor. I'm just trying to 
get a few more facts. And to keep things even sided for now.

vin 6585

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., kayoong_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Folks:
> I have seen both products.  The two are VERY different in designs 
> installation and in their operations.  One is like prime steak, the 
other is 
> like chuck steak.  One is plug and play, the other is you must work 
to make 
> it work...


Message: 4
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 08:51:34 -0500
From: "at88mph" <>
Subject: Re: a/c pulley bearings bad design


I may get flamed for saying this, but you may be better off leaving the
pulley off and getting a shorter belt.  I had the same problem and actually
once, the pulley just flew off the car!  I replaced the pulley 3 times
before I decided to just leave it off.   I just got a shorter belt to
compensate for the missing pulley and I never had any problems.

Hope this helps,


----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter" <>
To: <>

> I am complaining about the a/c pulley bearings on my DeLorean.  I replaced
> them about 7K miles ago, and the lower one went bad again!


Message: 5
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 07:16:02 -0500
From: "Scott Mueller" <>
Subject: RE: Here's the air box picture!

Could you post the complete address for your photo's

Scott Mueller
DMCNEWS 002981
DOA 5031

-----Original Message-----
From: Cameron Putsch []
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 10:24 AM
Subject: [DML] Here's the air box picture!

Just remember that this is a prototype and the ones that you will get will
be much better looking. They are going to be in the range of 230-270 dollars
and are worth every penny.

Casey at


Message: 6
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:24:04 -0000
Subject: Re: Wacky tach

You might want to check for a loss of ground to your dash circuit 
board.  A similar problem happened to my car fairly soon in it's 
life.  The only solution that lasted was a ground wire installed from 
the board to steering column.
Hope this helps.
Mark vin#2602

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_v...> wrote:
> Here's one for the books... 
> I was driving down the road and I noticed that each time I hit a 
small bump,
> the tachometer would drop to 0 and the oil pressure guage would 
drop to 0.
> Then, it would come back the next time I hit a bump. At one point, 
> gauges spun around 360 degrees! I knew if the speedometer did that, 
I would
> surely break the time/space barrier. From the looks of it, it's a 
> sensor somewhere. Anyone have an idea?


Message: 7
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 08:59:19 EDT
Subject: Re: a/c pulley bearings bad design

Walt and Group, There is different bearings. I will find out monday, but the 
ones we use in the alternators is what you want. They are black seal for 
alternators and you know how long they last.


Message: 8
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 18:40:21 -0000
From: "Jeff" <>
Subject: I've found yet another biased Delorean review..

*****  Moderator's Note *****
Others have mentioned this book and it's rather
dim view of DeLoreans.  Check the archives for
other titles that have DeLorean mentions.

Last night i went out to the casino near my residence. Mohegan Sun, 
Uncasville, CT. anyways, they recently added a whole new shopping 
center to the place, including a nostalgia store ( No D rerlated 
stuff ) and a Discovery Channel Store. While in the Discovery Channel 
store i came across a book entitled "An Illustrated History of the 
Automobile" by Graham Robson. The two pages of Delorean information 
included in this book were terrible.

Graham Robson's review seemed like force-fed propaganda against JZD, 
mentioning the cocaine "deal" as if Graham himself was Judge, Jury, 
and Executioner. For those who absolutely have to collect everything 
Delorean, here's another piece for you in case you missed it. As for 
me, i highly UN-recommend this book. I'm curious to know though what 
other literary works mention Delorean (besides the obvious) and what 
everyone's thoughts are on them.

Norwich, CT
Striving for the Dream.


Message: 9
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:11:01 -0000
From: "Jeff" <>
Subject: Whose Delorean is this??

Hi everyone, i came across this photo of a yellow Delorean a couple 
years ago and have used it as my desktop wallpaper numerous times. 
Well i just uploaded it to my server and linked it in the photos 
section of the DML under "Miscellany". I was wondering if anyone can 
provide more info about the car.

Norwich, CT
Striving for the Dream.


Message: 10
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 18:22:22 EDT
Subject: my attitude about DeLorean (long)

Hello All,

This last week i had the opportunity to check out the book "Hard Driving - My 
Years With John DeLorean", written by William Haddad, a close executive of 
JZD during the early years of pre-production and the first half of DMC, 
Belfast.  Previously, the only insight i had about DMC on a buisness level 
was a few random websites with brief paragraphs and i also read DeLorean's 
autobiography, which basically tells the ENTIRE story, more or less, from 
JZD's perspective.  by contrast, "Hard Driving" is the exact same story, 
minus the results of John's drug bust (because the book was written before 
the trials were over, and there's only a short page about his arrest), only 
told by Haddad's point of view.

let's just say that i wonder if i were better off not reading "Hard Driving". 
 ignorance really is bliss!  The entire book tends to paint a positive view 
of DeLorean the COMPANY, while painting a negative view of DeLorean the MAN.  
keep in mind that Haddad fully convinced me in the book that he didn't write 
the book to tear down JZD or anything he did, he just tells the facts as he 
knew them, and voices his inner suspicions and fears.  

Simply, i was appalled by most of the book.  Haddad describes JZD early in 
his GM years (he has known JZD since he was chief engineer of Pontiac) as 
brilliant, outspoken, driven, yet as always, controversial.  In the beginning 
years of DMC he describes John as almost manical in his procedures to gain 
financial backing for DMC.  In the middle and late years of DMC (81-82) he 
describes John as being nearly insane about his control over the company, 
resorting to wiretaps, moles in his own buisness and in the British 
government, using theft (he once ordered Dick Brown and some other armed men 
to break into the Bridgewater, NJ QAC center to steal 15 cars which were 
owned by Bank of America.  the cars in the QAC were collateral on a loan they 
gave DMC, and when DMC missed a payment [when times got tough, JZD just 
stopped paying his bills and focused on selling the cars no matter what], 
Bank of America took over ownership of the unsold cars.  during the night, 
the men broke into the QAC and took the cars to JZD's Bedminster Estate.  
Haddad was never able to find out what became of the cars).  He describes 
JZD's public statements about the 'ethical car company' as being nothing more 
than a fascade for DMC to sell more cars to a naive public.  in reality, 
Haddad claims that DMC became everything that JZD had denounced in GM in his 
book "On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors".  John did not care about 
the quality of his car.  he decided not to re-engineer the faulty suspension 
system during the pre-production because they were already behind schedule.  
this later resulted in at least two recalls on the car in 1981 - probably 
even more expensive to do that than it would have been to fix it before it 
happened.  as far as emissions and EPA regulations - DMC manipulated the 
system and falsified their reports in order to pass it.  again, he didn't 
spend the time or the money or get it resolved.  There were a hundred other 
examples i could describe, but it would be best for you all to read the book 
yourselves.  perhaps the worst part of the whole thing was at the end when 
Roy Nesseth was sent to confront Haddad about his severence package.  Haddad 
wanted his lawyer to read the contract first, but Roy wouldn't let him.  he 
wanted an immediate signature.  When Haddad refused, Roy threatened that his 
children would be in danger if he didn't sign the papers.  interesting.  
that's exactly what DeLorean was told by a federal 'agent' when JZD didn't 
want to sign the papers for the Columbian cocaine deal....... Haddad never 
did sign the papers.

Now make no mistake - i love my DeLorean car and it has pretty much taken 
over my entire life.  it is my main hobby now for the last year since i've 
owned it, and i am proud to drive it.  there isn't a single time when i sit 
in the seat and think, 'man, this is the best car i have ever driven!'.   
that feeling is further reaffirmed by the car shows that i attend, the stares 
and the cheers as i drive through the city, and every time i work on it and 
accomplish something.  it's history really doesn't affect my love for the 
car.  what's really special is that the car actually HAPPENED.

also, two very interesting things were revealed in the book:
1.  remember last year when someone was talking about the possibility of a 
DeLorean factory in Logan, Utah? how a bunch of locals in the area said they 
remember seeing a stockpile of cars at a buisness just outside the area?  
well this story is revealed and explained in its entirity.  we all know about 
the mysterious $17M that 'disappeared' from DeLorean accounting ledgers.  
well it turns out that JZD used some of this money to buy land in or around 
Logan, Utah for corporate expansion. his idea was to build SNOWPLOWS 
(remember the DMC snowplow brochure that was sold on ebay quite a while ago?) 
at this location, but he kept it secret because on the terms of his grants 
and loans from the UK, he was forbidden to spend any of the money on anything 
not directly involved with the release of the DMC-12.  with all of the car 
diversions and cover-ups, i wonder if DeLorean wasn't storing any unsold cars 
here, or perhaps there were some prototypes or VIN 00000-00499?  very 

2.  this will come to be most appreciated by DanRC30 (i hope you are reading 
this!!).  maybe you already know the story behind your car.  but i know on 
the DMCNEWS page you said that your car was painted the colors for Smokey 
Yunick? well check this out - on page 142:

       "... we were to meet with Bunkie Knudsen and Smokey Yunick, a 
brilliant inventor who was working on a new engine that saved fuel by 
recycling its own heat.  Bunkie and John had formed an engine partnership 
with Smokey.  We were going to ride in a car fitted with the new experimental 

Then on page 144:

"Driving with Bunkie to Smokey Yunick's, i felt like it was old times again. 
John was open and friendly.  When we huddled around Smokey's new engine, he 
became the brilliant engineer talking about a historic breakthrough that we 
would use in our car.  Smokey had also worked out a simple solution to a 
nagging clutch problem that our engineers and consultants had not been able 
to solve.  For a moment i thought it could still be fun to work for DeLorean. 
 This was the ambience that had attracted me to the company in the first 

somewhere else in the book it mentions that JZD was planning on using the new 
engine in one of his own cars, possibly a future model year of the DMC-12.  i 
can't find that reference now though.

Anyway, i just wanted to share this book with the newsgroup.  now i'm not 
really sure who to believe.  was DeLorean a man with a dream who would stop 
at nothing, no matter what the cost, who he hurt, what money he spent that he 
didn't have, no matter what contracts he reworded to fit his agenda, NO 
MATTER WHAT THE COST, to see that his dream live?  or was he the victim of 
jealous executives, a victim of two governements, a victim or the media, and 
a victim of a set-up?  

"Hard Driving" and "DeLorean" paint the picture with two very different kinds 
of paint.  

which one do you believe?

1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 11
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:58:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Whose Delorean is this??

I have always loved DeLoreans, and the color yellow. I want this car. I love 
originality on DeLoreans, and sometimes paint on them looks really really 
good. Every car painted that I have seen has been awesome, like the red, 
black, maroon, and dark green-but I haven't seen yellow, and I think it's 

VIN 4275

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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