From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 725
Date: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 2:29 AM

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There are 22 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: I've found yet another biased Delorean review..
From: "Ryan McCaffrey" <>

2. Re: a/c pulley bearings bad design

3. Re: Yellow DeLorean (WAS Whose Delorean is this??)
From: "Brian Henderlong" <>

4. convex side mirrors!
From: "Walter" <>

5. Re: my attitude about DeLorean (long)

6. The DeLoreans
From: "JDL" <>

7. Re: Whose Delorean is this??
From: Bob Brandys <>

8. 3 types of "pullstraps", and stuff for sale!
From: "Marc A. Levy" <>

9. Re: Whose Delorean is this??
From: "G Ryerson" <>

10. JZD's cadillac dealership

11. International Class
From: "JDL" <>

12. Re: JZD's cadillac dealership
From: "David Swingle" <>

13. Re: Whose Delorean is this??
From: Richard Strecker <>

14. Acceleration Lag
From: "Willie Mack" <>

15. DMC personalities - alive?

16. Re: International Class

17. Re: a/c pulley bearings bad design

18. Re: Re: JZD's cadillac dealership

19. Re: Re: JZD's cadillac dealership

20. Re: Whose Delorean is this??

21. RE: door openers
From: Darryl Tinnerstet <>

22. Wiring Diagram

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 20:30:49 -0700
From: "Ryan McCaffrey" <>
Subject: RE: I've found yet another biased Delorean review..

Well, a fellow owner (thanks Pat!) passed this
( along to me recently.  It's from a
column called Ask Yahoo!, which apparently tackles random questions of all
sorts, and it's dated this past Thursday.  In contrast to the "Illustrated
History..." book Jeff mentions, this one actually paints a more unbiased
picture.  Perhaps the columnist at Ask Yahoo! actually did his homework.  I
pass this along only because I was surprised that it wasn't completely

Ryan McCaffrey
VIN #10014
Arizona DeLorean Club

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff []
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 11:40 AM
Subject: [DML] I've found yet another biased Delorean review..

Last night i went out to the casino near my residence. Mohegan Sun,
Uncasville, CT. anyways, they recently added a whole new shopping
center to the place, including a nostalgia store ( No D rerlated
stuff ) and a Discovery Channel Store. While in the Discovery Channel
store i came across a book entitled "An Illustrated History of the
Automobile" by Graham Robson. The two pages of Delorean information
included in this book were terrible.


Message: 2
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 03:58:33 -0000
Subject: Re: a/c pulley bearings bad design

There are 2 reasons why you would blow out the bearings prematurely. 
Don't use the ones made in China and don't overtighten the belt. It is 
really easy to overtighten and not realize it. If it slips it is too 
loose but don't tighten much more than that! For the technicaly 
correct procedure refer to N:08:13 step 6. If you install a new belt 
it should be a little tighter and rechecked in about a week as new 
belts strech a lot when first installed. The bearings can be obtained 
at any large power transmission parts supply. Bring the old ones and 
match them up. They are about $2.00 apiece for someone off the street, 
over the counter cash sales. In LARGE quantities they are probably 
less than a buck each for the GOOD ones.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., dherv10_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Walt and Group, There is different bearings. I will find out monday, 
but the 
> ones we use in the alternators is what you want. They are black seal 
> alternators and you know how long they last.
> John


Message: 3
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 00:22:49 -0400
From: "Brian Henderlong" <>
Subject: Re: Yellow DeLorean (WAS Whose Delorean is this??)

If anyone's interested, I've got a different picture of a yellow DeLorean on
my website at:

Just an FYI,

- Brian Henderlong / Tampa, FL


Message: 4
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 01:10:21 -0400
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: convex side mirrors!

I have been busy experimenting & practicing on various glass cutting &
beveling equipment and finally produced some high quality convex side
mirrors to fit the DeLorean.  The bad news is that it takes me about an hour
to cut & bevel each mirror, but this should improve with practice.  The good
news is that they look great!  The product is a 'surface mirror' type of
glass which gives a much higher quality image than having the light pass
THROUGH the glass TWICE before you see the image.  The edges of the mirrors
look very clean.  They make a fine dark edge whereas the OEM glass tends to
have a bright perimeter where light is refracted through the edges.

Making these mirrors available to everyone who wants them is another
problem.  First, it is a very time consuming job.  There isn't enough demand
for them to pay some Taiwanese company with a robot whip them out.  So I am
starting with a larger mirror and cutting it down the hard way.  (In the
process I crop out that annoying "OBJECTS IN MIRROR ARE CLOSER THAN THEY
APPEAR" message.)  Also I am having trouble finding very many larger mirrors
to start from.  If anyone knows of a cheap source for large convex mirror
glass, let me know.  The best source so far is NAPA, but they are expensive.
I found cheaper ones at Pep Boys, but the glass wasn't high enough quality
to suit my tastes.

For now I am plenty busy supplying friends who I have already made
arrangements with.  In about a month I will probably start putting some up
on eBay.  I would rather just wholesale them to the vendors, but it is
costing too much already to make these.  I don't think the market would bare
having a vendor mark it up that much more.  Maybe someday I will recover the
cost of the equipment.  For now I have several hundred bucks invested, but I
have always wanted to be able to make stained glass windows with polished
beveled edges.  :)  Another nice thing about these mirrors is that I am
making them for the driver side as well as the passenger side.  Everyone who
I talk to in Europe says that this is standard for all cars.  But in the
U.S., we only get convex on the passenger side.  But now I have changed
that!  :)

Mirror mirror on my car, who has the coolest DeLorean of them all?
Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 5
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 11:55:01 -0000
Subject: Re: my attitude about DeLorean (long)

Where to begin. The old saying goes, "The truth is niether black or 
white, but shades of gray." If I were to sum up the operations of the 
man and the company, that is how I would put it. But still, we need 
to find a place to begin... I'll be frank, JZD wasn't the picture 
perfect exec, nor did he run his company idealy as he described how 
things should have been run by GM in his book "On a Clear Day..." But 
he sure as hell is in my opinion a more moral man than Iacoca, or Ed 
Cole (Iacocca was on TV denoucing the classic Mustang. What are the 
chances he would pull over to completment a Ford owner for having 
such a nice car!) I'm not going to attack or justify anything, but I 
will try to explain everything as best I can...

First, a little background info about Haddad is needed. JZD hired 
Haddad because he claimed that he had close ties to the Kennedy 
family (who is from Twinbrook), and this could benefit DMC/DMCL 
because the company would be going in with political links/ties to 
the area. And that could give the company some pull to get things 
done. He conviced JZD he could help him/the company in the policital 
realm of Northern Ireland, and was thus hired.

The "Gold Facets" memo that stated he wrote on Boxing Day (Dec. 26) 
was completely false. Later durring another one of JZD's trials, 
Haddad admitted on the stand under oath, that he did indeed forge the 
memo. He also conviced JZD's secratary Marion Gibson that everything 
in the memo was true. She ended up trying to alert the British Govt, 
and I beleive that Scotland Yard found no problems at that time (it's 
been a while since I've read Hard Driving, and I don't have a copy 
handy. bear with me). After she found out that Haddad lied to her, 
she was truly sorry for what she had done, and even appologized. 
Haddad does provide us with some interesting inside with his book. 
But, you must also take into consideration he is biased against JZD, 
and the fact that he went so far as to forge a public record in the 
process. Interesting insights, but we can't take everything he says 
as being etched in stone.

DMC/DRLP had no other choice but to agressivly go after any and all 
capitol they could. After all, they were starting up a new company. 
Manical, no. Very creative in creating tax shelters and complex 
investment plans to acquire money, yes!

As for the cars that were taken from the QAC in Jersey, I believe it 
was Roy Nesseth thate was present to take control of the cars. C.R. 
Brown was in California. But the loan was paid back. Of course it had 
to be for DMC to sell/floor plan cars. While Haddad "claims" he has 
no knowlege of what happened to the cars, they probably just went 
back to the QAC to be shipped. Haddad has a writting style that 
doesn't say things right out, but will plant a seed of doubt into 
your thinking.

DMC had no reason to falsify anything to the EPA. The PRV6 motor had 
already been tested for emissions, and was approved for use in the 
US. It did need to go thru a 5K mile test for it's application in the 
DMC-12 though. To pass emissions, the power of the engine was greatly 
reduced. That is why we have only a 130bhp engine, and the 
restrictive exhaust/emissions system on our cars.

JZD didn't pay as much attention to the car as was expected in as 
engineering. He was indeed a bit more concerned about cosmetic 
aspects of the car. Honestly, this makes total sense since he was 
paying Lotus to complete the engineering work! And it is something 
that I am very thankful for. The DMC-12 has a warm, quality, 
handcrafted feel to it. The amount of pre-moulded plastic and vinyl 
in most modern cars have all the craftsmanship of a $2.00 snap-tite 

Both suspension recalls that I am aware of were not due to lack of 
concern over the car, but of GREAT concern. The front crumple tube 
was thought to be to riged, and it was believed it wouldn't 
crupmle/absorb engery properly in a front-end collision. They reduced 
it, but then made it way to thin, and it could be damaged simply by 
hitting a pothole. Thus the front-end recall was born. The training 
arm bolts were recalled because the company who made them didn't make 
them strong enough.

As far as Haddad's run-in's with Roy Nesseth, who knows. They sound 
to me like two people who didn't get along to begin with. And Nesseth 
always struck me as the type (from what I've read) who just had a 
gruff demeanor about him. Not nessisarily a mean guy, just one who 
seemed intimidating to most. Now that he has passed on, we'll never 
get a chance to hear his side of the story...

Logan Mfg is an interesting topic, and one that has even less 
answers. JZD took out a loan to buy Logan, but the angered the bank 
when he paid it off too early (they lost $ by not getting any 
interest payments). I was the person who originaly posted about 
people seeing cars _at_dml_ Logan Mfg. I have heard stories from various 
people that go so far as stating that JZD had parts shipped to Logan, 
UT to build cars there as well as N. Ireland. I even heard rumors 
that JZD has a hidden cache of cars stashed away in an old warehouse, 
but can't sell them because of his bankruptcy. This was a story told 
to me by a stranger met _at_dml_ Pep Boys. Honestly, I take it with a grain 
of salt. I've never seen the guy since, but he knew some pretty 
accurate info about JZD's trials and DMC's history. MUCH more than 
the average joe off the street. But hey, who knows. If I belived 
everything a stranger told me about my car, I'd have a helecoptor 
engine made by Ford, and my car would be illegal to drive because 
it's either too fast, or too shiny! :)

John Z. DeLorean had a dream, and he made it come true. Plus it was a 
dream that was shared by others. If no one had believed in that 
dream, then there would never have been a car. Besides, I don't have 
the motivation to vaccum my house, but JZD was able to build a car. 
Now that takes more than just motivation. It takes great courage!

Which leaves the final question: Why didn't DMC suceed?
As it's been discussed before, there is a long list of factors. JZD 
didn't bring down DMC all by himself. But it is true that he had more 
than enough help to colapse everything. "What if" will be the 
question that many people will always ask. What if the British Govt 
had given DMC export financing? What if JZD wasn't intimidated into 
going into room 501? What if they bypassed GMAC and provided 
customers with in-house financing? What if everyone lived happily 
ever after and DMC was still around today?

Everytime you ask yourself one of these questions, don't forget to 
ask yourself that one truely unspeakable question. The one that keeps 
me up at night.

What if there never was a DeLorean?

vin 6585

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hello All,
> This last week i had the opportunity to check out the book "Hard 
Driving - My 
> Years With John DeLorean", written by William Haddad...


Message: 6
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 07:54:04 -0400
From: "JDL" <>
Subject: The DeLoreans

Fellow DLMers:

Just got back from Chicago and saw as I was passing by Planet Hollywood that
a group that will be performing there are "The Deloreans."   Anyone know
anything about this obviously very incredibly named group?



Message: 7
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 08:13:12 -0500
From: Bob Brandys <>
Subject: Re: Whose Delorean is this??

This yellow delorean was in Orange County CA. in 1985.


Message: 8
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 10:33:15 -0400
From: "Marc A. Levy" <>
Subject: 3 types of "pullstraps", and stuff for sale!

I recently purchased a second DeLorean, and it came with some extra

Along with the spare parts came a bunch of black pullstraps for early
cars with the metal "D" ring.  After a car show on Sunday in
Englishtown, DanRC30  (and former DMC owner Doug, now Mr. Fiero) stopped
by my house for a ride in the new DMC.  He asked about the pullstraps
because he needed some.  After a quick ride in the new car where his
karma caused my heater core to pop :), he noticed that there were 2
different styles of pullstaps in  the bag.  Some had a highly polished
large "D" ring, where some of them had a dull smaller looking "D" ring.
There were also differences in the way the strap was sewn together.

Can anyone shed some light on this pulstrap mystery?  Before this I
always thought there were just 2.  (The early style that wraps around
the handle, and the later style that screw in to the door). The parts
manual only list one style for the pre-5992 cars.

In addition, I have some other parts I'd like to sell.  Contact me if
your interested:

Passenger Door with glass
complete intake W/ air flow meter (no fuel distributor)
another air flow meter (no fuel distributor)
Factory set of stripes
Power Antenna (don't know if it works, or the mast is in there)
Tail Lights
Crossover pipe W/ Cat

There may be some more, but I have not gone through all the boxes.


Message: 9
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 11:01:12 -0400
From: "G Ryerson" <>
Subject: Re: Whose Delorean is this??

There is an excellent chance that the yellow DeLorean you mentioned is
indeed mine. If the picture seems to have taken under a high awning at a car
dealership it is indeed mine.

If so, I took the picture on a digital camera the day the car was purchased.

I'd be happy to provide more information once we can establish the exact
identity of the yellow D. A link to where the picture can be viewed is all
that it will take.

Best Regards,

George Ryerson
Akron Ohio

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 5:11 PM
Subject: [DML] Whose Delorean is this??

> Hi everyone, i came across this photo of a yellow Delorean a couple
> years ago and have used it as my desktop wallpaper numerous times.
> Well i just uploaded it to my server and linked it in the photos
> section of the DML under "Miscellany". I was wondering if anyone can
> provide more info about the car.


Message: 10
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 12:29:44 EDT
Subject: JZD's cadillac dealership

Hey all,

can anyone tell me where JZD's Cadillac dealership is/was at?  the one he 
recieved as part of his severence package from GM.  any clues?

1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 11
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 07:54:08 -0400
From: "JDL" <>
Subject: International Class

Fellow DLMers:

I'm teaching a class in international management at a local university, John
Carroll University here in Cleveland.  I wanted to bring my DeLorean to
class when I teach about international sourcing, using the DeLorean as an
example of a car with multiple international components, both in the car
components itself and in it's manufacture.

I know of course the major components: that the car was named after and has
as it seminal influence an American; that it was to be sold primarily in
America; that it was assembled in Northern Ireland; that the engine is
Sweedish; the drivetrain French, the stainless body stamped in Germany; the
design of the car is Italian...

... is there, however, a comprehensive list of all the major components and
their country of origin?   If so, please e-mail me privately, unless you
think it would be of interest to the list in general...


David Levey
Jdl "at" interax. com


Message: 12
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 21:46:59 -0000
From: "David Swingle" <>
Subject: Re: JZD's cadillac dealership

DeLorean Cadillac, Cleveland Ohio.

It's owned by Mark DeLorean at this time, his nephew I believe. 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hey all,
> can anyone tell me where JZD's Cadillac dealership is/was at?  the 
one he 
> recieved as part of his severence package from GM.  any clues?
> Andy


Message: 13
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 15:35:29 -0400
From: Richard Strecker <>
Subject: Re: Whose Delorean is this??

I don't know the name of the owner but, there is a Yellow D in Chagrin
Falls Ohio.  I saw it this past summer while I was in the area.  I
pursued him around several blocks, through parking lots &  back streets
trying to get him to stop long enough to talk to him.  I finally got him
to stop & told him that I was a DeLorean owner too.  He didn't want to
shut the engine off since he had just changed the accumulator & was just
out for a test drive.  Then he took off before I could get his name.
Yes, yellow looks sharp!



Message: 14
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 14:21:31 -0400
From: "Willie Mack" <>
Subject: Acceleration Lag

My Delorean is a 5 speed manual.  It seems that no matter how high I put the
rpms in first gear.  The car never fully accelerates.  It sits there for a
minute, almost letting the rpms fall until it begins to roll.  I can't get a
good start off the line.  It this a problem with not enough horsepower, the
throttle linkage, or the clutch?

  Willie Mack
  Vin 5043


Message: 15
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 12:31:13 EDT
Subject: DMC personalities - alive?

Me again!

does anyone know which key figures from the DMC 1976-83 era are still are 
around, what they are doing, and which ones are no longer alive?  that would 
be interesting to find out.

1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 16
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 19:16:01 EDT
Subject: Re: International Class

David, I have a list of 31 suppliers that were the major suppliers for the 
John Hervey


Message: 17
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 23:47:23 -0000
Subject: Re: a/c pulley bearings bad design

Walt and Group, Let me correct my self. 
#1. The Black seal bearing made in China are your standard run of the 
mill bearings. Who knows how long they will last.
#2. The EMQ Bearing ( Electrical Equiptment Quality ) This is the 
best, Made in Tiwan soon to be made in China, Best metal, Best grease 
and used in the alternators. You can normally tell them by the 
Orange,Blue or brown seal. Normally the brown seal is the extra wide 
bearing used in some limited applications. The color will vary by 
supplier. These do cost a little more and might be harder to find, 
but will last.
#3. An application of the black seal bearing is used as the pilot 
bearing in the clutch. This would be an application of limited usage 
compared to the treatment of the pulleys on the alternator or the 
idler puleys. 
I will get some of the bearings and put them on the site for you to 
purchase or exchange.
John Hervey


Message: 18
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:51:47 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: JZD's cadillac dealership

He received a Cadillac dealership franchise in Clearwater Beach Florida.

If you want to read a DeLorean book with incredible detail, read DREAM MAKER 
the rise and fall of John DeLorean.



Message: 19
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 19:26:39 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: JZD's cadillac dealership

After Cleveland, for some reason I am thinking Mark DeLorean is John 
DeLorean's brother...He looks to be a little bit younger.

VIN 4275

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 20
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 10:04:19 EDT
Subject: Re: Whose Delorean is this??

The only yellow D I've ever seen (and it could only be described as Mack 
truck yellow) was at the Consolidated International warehouse in Columbus 
when I went to pick up my brand-new baby (1982 model) in late 1983.  In the 
warehouse and in an adjacent field were some 200-300 D's -- which I believe 
constituted the entire inventory of Consolidated.  Of the entire group, only 
four were painted:  one the yellow (NOT my favorite), two a nice cherry red, 
and one gorgeous gloss black.  I decided then that if I ever dinged my car 
and needed to paint it, my choice would be black.  I'm glad to say that 18 
years later, I have not had to exercise that choice.

So ... I suggest that IF the one I saw in Columbus is the sole yellow D, 
perhaps Consolidated or its successors could provide data on the purchaser.  
There may have been other yellow ones, but not in the vast group of unsold 
ones I saw that day in Ohio.  In fact, I may be among the few current owners 
to have ever seen that many D's together in one place.  Quite a sight!

Paul Feine
# 10944


Message: 21
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 20:14:40 -0700
From: Darryl Tinnerstet <>
Subject: RE: door openers

> untill someone actually gets one of these two venders door
> opening kits installed, or gets a hands-on comparison, nothing else
> can really be said.
> I have seen both products.  The two are VERY different in designs
> and 
>> installation and in their operations.  One is like prime steak, the
> other is 
>> like chuck steak.  One is plug and play, the other is you must work
> to make 
>> it work...
Hey, guys, here's a news flash - my kits have been purchased and installed
many times, and I've had them in my own cars for over 10 years.  They work.
Kayo, I'd like to know just where you saw my product since I don't recall
selling one to you (but I might have since I've been quietly marketing them
for years).  Robert - you have solenoids, which I don't recommend, and your
hot wires is one of the two reasons (the other being their weight).
Solenoids draw a huge amount of amps.  The motorized actuators do not.  They
will easily work on the existing wiring as they draw so little power.  A 16
guage wire would be heavy enough.

No. my kit is not quite "plug and play".  But I believe most of us like to
be able to work on our own cars, and it also helps to know how it works
should something fail.  I have been reluctant to market these kits because
of the negative experiences some, like Robert, have had with makeshift
setups.  But this is a simple, tested, reliable design.  It adds very little
weight to the door, isn't that hard to install, and has proven very
reliable.  I'd really appreciate it if people would limit their comments to
actual experience with my kits, not guessing about what they "may" be like.

Darryl Tinnerstet
Specialty Automotive
4 LaBelle Lane
McCleary, WA 98557
PH: 360-495-4640
FAX: 360-495-4680


Message: 22
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 03:13:19 -0000
Subject: Wiring Diagram

Group, I have heard that there was two wiring diagrams for the car. 
Well, I found a/the difference. I bought a new still in the wraper 
workshop manuel pn p3113096. It must be an early one because the 
brown wire for the Ducellier is on it along with the brown/yellow 
light wire. As you know when the Motorola alternator was added, the 
solid brown wire was no longer used and only the brown/yellow for the 
light wire was.  The later is what I find on most diagrams. 
Some other differences/mistakes you will also note:
#1.102 Accessory relay with white wires coming out of it is portrayed 
twice. The other #102 relay is actually #103, the Main relay with the 
white/blue wires coming out of it. It's also on M:18:02 correct.
#2. There is no relay on either diagram for the relay next to the 
dropping resistor for the coil on the back fire of the engine 
compartment. Some cars have it and others don't.It could be #104 that 
was left off the diagrams and SWymbol key. It would fit if you look 
at the placement of #105,106 and 107. 
#3.The older diagram shows a U shaped indention on the wire in front 
of the Air Condition low pressure switch. #91 (legend). Diagram 
M:18:19 shows that to be a switch #7 and low pressure #8. So #7 has 
to be the high pressure switch I read about in the work shop 
manual.The switch is on my 11004 car and most likley ours also. If 
the compressor reaches 265lb's to 300 lb's of pressure it may also 
cut off. It's spoke of very little. Reference N:09:01 and N:09:04.
That's all for now 
John Hervey


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