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Subject: [DML] Digest Number 732
Date: Sunday, October 07, 2001 3:04 AM

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There are 18 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: instrument cluster lights - help!

2. Re: airbox performance numbers

3. Re: Re: Problem closing door (warped???)
From: Christian Williams <>

4. RE: Re: It's not every day that you meet John Delorean....Or is it?
From: "Kevin Abato" <>

5. Re: Problem closing door (warped???)

6. Re: Re: Problem closing door (warped???)
From: "Walter" <>

7. update on speedo noise
From: "K Creason" <>

8. RE: air box performance numbers
From: "Scott Mueller" <>

9. RE: door openers
From: Darryl Tinnerstet <>

10. RE: RE: door openers
From: "IN2TIME" <>

11. Airbox Measurements and SS version
From: "Cameron Putsch" <>

12. My car show, my links, the DOD and a bit more
From: "Montgomery, Ken" <>

13. convex side mirrors on eBay
From: "Walter" <>

14. Re: door openers

15. Control Pressure Regulator Update #2.

16. Re: Re: Problem closing door (warped???)

17. Re: Shifting problem

18. Antenna problem

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:29:58 EDT
Subject: Re: instrument cluster lights - help!

Andy, Several of the ground wires go to #12 & #13 by the diagram . Black is 
normally always gnd on the D. I haven't take a binnacle off yet, but I have 
seen the connector.12 is low beam side gnd and 13 is high beam side gnd. I 
may pull my binnacle off this weekend. I haven't traced where the grounds 
connect after the connector.


Message: 2
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:36:10 EDT
Subject: Re: airbox performance numbers

Casey, With your new air box along with my tune up kit and new 18,000 volt 
coil kit. I might take the car to a shop here in Dallas and check it out. 
There has to be some kind of a difference. Wheather is low end or high end. I 
see a difference with the coil kit in passing and loading up the system when 
you floor it. Bosch even advertises a better performance with the platinum 4 
+ 4 plugs. That's what I use.


Message: 3
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:53:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Williams <>
Subject: Re: Re: Problem closing door (warped???)


Your car sounds EXACTLY like mine. Driver door is great, passenger door
hits rear striker, have to slam it to get it closed, etc.

I was just at the NCDMC meet a couple weeks ago and I had Rob Grady look
at the door for me. He pointed out that I have the earlier style striker
pins and that I might want to do the conversion to the later style.

I had never heard of early or late striker pins. It turns out that the
pins aren't different, but it's rather a method of cutting the fiberglass
behind the pin and shimming it a little more. This way you can adjust the
pin more in and out and up and down. Then you can get these little rubber
boots to cover up what you've done. There were a couple cars at the show
that had these boots, and they looked great. I wouldn't have noticed them
if it wasn't pointed out to me.

I haven't done the conversion on my car yet. It's in the near future. I
just have to wait until I get some time. Does anyone have any success
stories with doing this?



Message: 4
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 20:46:33 -0400
From: "Kevin Abato" <>
Subject: RE: Re: It's not every day that you meet John Delorean....Or is it?

There is Morristown NJ (10 min for Bedminster) and Moorestown PA (about an
hour from bedminster).

My brother lives in Morristown, and has friends who claim Delorean lives
there...I should have asked him (and also set up a time to meet him again
when I was not so tounge tied).

Does anyone have contact info on JZD?  I would like to schedule a time to
meet him, and talk a little more then I did last week.

 Kevin Abato


Message: 5
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 03:53:33 -0000
Subject: Re: Problem closing door (warped???)

It is very unlikely that your door is "warped". Because of the 
construction of the doors they are very rigid and unless damaged in an 
accident (which would be very noticeable) they won't warp or distort. 
It sounds like you must adjust the anchor pins and that takes a lot of 
explanation, too much for posting to the list. NEVER try to adjust the 
hinges of the door unless the door was removed (which should under 
normal circumstances never be required). I suggest you call someone on 
the phone and have them walk you through the procedures as I have 
never seen them written down. At this time if needed you should also 
replace the door weatherstripping. There are also modifacations to the 
fiberglass edge where the weatherstripping goes and again that is too 
much to post. I suggest you get it fixed because eventually from 
forcing the door it will jam and you will have even bigger problems. 
The door mechanisms might also require lubrication and adjustment 
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


Message: 6
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 01:26:23 -0400
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: Re: Re: Problem closing door (warped???)


I have the exact same door problem you do only in mirror image.  My
passenger door seems perfect, but my drivers door has always been a problem.
The front of my door comes down first and sits lower.  The rear of the door
is hard to latch unless I karate-chop the door closed on the rear from
outside or pull the handle down and forward from inside.  I had DMC Joe
adjust it last year and his son adjust it this year.  It is still messed up.
Alan (his son) suggested that the hinge needs adjustment.  I can tell from
the dings on the door & t-panel that a previous owner made a really bad
attempt at a hinge adjustment, so that is probably my problem.  I don't
think that the problem is a twisted door.  Can you say if your car has ever
been wreaked?

As for the door not lining up with the fender & quarter panel, experts say
that a properly adjusted door is adjusted to fit the fiberglass.  Then the
fender & quarter panel are adjusted to align with the door.

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 7
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 08:25:44 -0500
From: "K Creason" <>
Subject: update on speedo noise

I've been trying to narrow down the source of my speedo noise. To recap, the
speedo works great, is accurate, but it there is a clicking noise, at least
up to 45mph. At a slight roll it's a very loud clack, but is only every few
seconds. At 40mph is isn't always noticeable, and there is just a slight
shiver to needle.

I removed the new lower speedo cable, pulled the actual cable out and lubed
the sheath. I also zip-tied the cable to the new arm instead of snaking it
through because the snake-through method gave it a little bit of a S-shape.
Still noisy.
So I disconnected the lower cable from the lambda counter box. Seemed quiet.
But, I'm not sure I would hear noise from the angle drive through an open
So I reconnected the lower cable and disconnected the upper cable from the
counter box and it was noisy again.

Anyone on the list had a counter box go bad? What would be the symptoms of a
failing counter box? Is it serviceable before it completely fails?

I guess the next step is to jack it back up and check the dust cap and angle

Any pointers?

I read this somewhere:
"most experts agree that the end of the world will come by accident, most
likely. That's where we come in; we're Computer Experts, we make accidents."


Message: 8
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 09:43:52 -0500
From: "Scott Mueller" <>
Subject: RE: air box performance numbers

I'm curious.  Is the Air inlet still the same size?  Does your air box
connect up to the existing side louver?  Do you notice a difference between
using the OEM style vs. K&N filter in your housing?  Your filter housing
does look like a nicely fabricated piece.

Scott Mueller
DMCNEWS 002981
DOA 5031


Message: 9
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 21:06:24 -0700
From: Darryl Tinnerstet <>
Subject: RE: door openers

Man, I love a good debate, especially when both sides are fundamentally
correct.  Bob, as a mechanic and street rodder for nearly 40 years, a
DeLorean vendor for 15, and an engineer in real life (civil) [yeah, I know
some people would question that title] I, like Martin, have to take
exception to your claim that actuators are inferior.  As he pointed out they
are universally used today for door locks.  Knowing the high failure rate of
DMC door lock solenoids, do you suppose there is another reason the big
companies use actuators besides cost?  Its called reliability.  As for not
having enough power, do you have to use both hands now to pull your outside
or inside door handle?  No, just a slight pull with a finger does it.
Another concern with solenoids is current draw.  You know they draw many
times as much as a motor.  I, too, experimented with solenoids, but always
came back to actuators for several reasons - reliability, cost, and weight
savings.  And this is one area I caution folks to be very careful about.
With solenoids you will, most likely, have to adjust your torsion bars up a
notch or two due to the added weight as well as the 20 years of normal use.
Before adding that extra stress to them, buyers need to be aware that the LH
torsion bars ARE NO LONGER AVAILABLE.  You break one, good luck finding a

The actuators I sell have been widely used in the aftermarket for all kinds
of functions with great success for many, many years. Over time I'm sure
your custom solenoids will earn a reputation for reliability just as good as
the actuators have, which is "0" failures in the 10 plus years I have been
using them. I would like to point out one more time that despite what others
have said, I don't believe you were comparing my actuator since I have never
sold any to you or Rob.  But then my memory is not nearly as reliable as the
actuators are....;)

Please don't take this as any kind of a "dig" at your or Rob's parts or
services.  I've said before and will repeat that they are first cabin and
bulletproof.  Its just that there is more than one way to satisfy the needs
of the market, and we can do it without unfairly describing the other guy's
product.  As long it works, the vendor stands behind it, and the customer is
satisfied, that's all we can hope for.

Actually, I don't really care if I ever sell another kit.  I hardly make
enough on them to make it worth the effort.  And with every one that is
installed, the one in my own car is a little less unique.  Which is
precisely why I decline to market a kit to install a Chevy motor like I did
in my car.  Ingenuity would be a little less meaningful if everyone had one.

Darryl Tinnerstet
Specialty Automotive (
McCleary, WA


Message: 10
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 09:46:52 -0700
From: "IN2TIME" <>
Subject: RE: RE: door openers


I would like to buy one of your door opener kits without the control unit.
I will be setting them up to work with an auxiliary circuit on my alarm

Several years ago, I had a door lock solenoid go bad. I replaced both
solenoids with actuators.  The stock solenoids used three wires (ground,
open, and close) and the actuators operate by reversing the polarity on only
two wires so I had to set up a simple relay circuit.  The actuators have
worked flawlessly, and since the door lock pulse unit is only driving small
relays, it should also last forever.

While I had the doors apart I also installed door openers.

Unfortunately, I used solenoids.  They do work, and everyone is impressed,
but if my battery gets even slightly depleted, the solenoids (which require
a lot of power) do not reliably unlatch the doors. My doors are aligned
perfectly. I can use my little finger to pull the handle up half way, and
the doors unlatch and open smoothly and fully.  I could run larger wires to
the solenoids, or try different solenoids but I think your actuator solution
would be much easier.  I'm not at all concerned about their reliability
since actuators are so widely used in the auto industry, and yours are the
best the DeLorean experts have seen.

Gary (at)


Message: 11
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 13:21:18 +0200
From: "Cameron Putsch" <>
Subject: Airbox Measurements and SS version

Actually even though my airbox is much taller, it does not come in contact
with the engine lid and nor does it come in contact when the engine torques
over sligtly. I was very carfull when I designed it so that it would fit
like a glove.

    I have decided to offer the same airbox design in an all Stainless Steel
version. I can either make it totally stainless with out the removable top
or simply put on a stainless cover instead of the lexan(in case you ever
wanted to switch. The choice is up to you, Lexan top, Stainless top, or all

Sincerely, Casey at


Message: 12
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 10:20:11 -0700
From: "Montgomery, Ken" <>
Subject: My car show, my links, the DOD and a bit more

I have a few bits of information I wanted to catch everyone up on:

First, I put on the 2001 DeLorean/Bricklin West Coast Celebration a couple
of weeks ago and I wanted to thank everyone who attended for helping to make
this such a great event. We had close to 100 people attend all or part of
the multi-day event plus our car show was open to the public on Saturday
with even more people attending. We had driving tours, dinners, exhibits,
lots of dealers, tech sessions, raffles and car judging. One of the things
that made this show special was a coming together of all 3 production
gullwing cars made: the DeLorean, Bricklin and the Mercedes 300sl gullwing.
our cars are unique and by banding together we were able to have event that
was beyond the scale of any single marquee (at least on the West Coast) and
provided a unique opportunity for the owners to get to know each other and
their cars. Actually, that part went even better than I expected! Plus
inside the Blackhawk museum we were able arrange a display of the 3
post-WWII car manufacturers: DeLorean, Bricklin, and the 48 Tucker. These
will continue to be on display to the public at the museum for the next 3

I'm sorry I've not written more about the event sooner but I was scheduled
for a minor outpatient procedure a few days after the event but some things
went wrong and I ended up being a guest of the hospital for a few days. I'm
still recovering and should be fully up to speed in a few weeks. Actually
this should give me time to get our club website updated with information
and pictures. To see how the weekend went, (as soon as I have it posted),
see our club website at:

While the show and then my own problems were happening one of my ISP's
trashed my personal web site that I have for myself and my car. I've now
moved my DeLorean related web info to:

I've got a few updates to do, but my LINKS page is, I think, the most
comprehensive list of DeLorean sites available. If you have changes or
additions I'd love to include them.

Between the show and my downtime I've also neglected the DeLorean Owners
Directory. I'm really sorry and I'll get the access requests done ASAP.
We've only had 26 additions/changes in the last 4 months but I'll still put
out a new edition late this fall. For more information on the DeLorean
Owners Directory, see:

And yes, I'm still involved with Lee Seiler and his models, but lately I've
been threatened over this and I'm going to back WAY off if this continues.
I've been able to keep the communication channels open on this subject by
gathering information from Lee and passing it on, and I've been able to help
deliver a number of kits recently, but don't let anyone think that I'm in
business with Lee. I've just been trying to help.

You're all a great group! Thanks!

Ken Montgomery	Sacramento, CA  VIN #10911  'OUTTIME'
President, Northern California DeLorean Motor Club
Keeper of the International DeLorean Owners Directory


Message: 13
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 14:09:25 -0400
From: "Walter" <>
Subject: convex side mirrors on eBay

I have never sold anything on eBay before, but thought I would auction my
last two passenger convex mirrors as a marketing experiment.

These are item #'s 596167779 & 596168034
So far one is going for $4.55 and the other for a whopping $10.55.  Keep in
mind that the glass I start with costs me around $9 a mirror and it takes
about an hour's worth of cutting & grinding to get it in the right shape
provided that I don't break or chip the glass in the process.

I have invested considerable time and money to make a safety improvement for
these cars, so how about y'all reward me by bidding these items up to around
$30 or so?  It will probably be January until I make more.  But if these
don't even cover the cost of my materials, then I don't see a point in it.

On the bright side, I've got the tools to make that 2' x 10' tree of life
stain glass window to fit my staircase.  I'm thinking about making the
leaves on the vine on one point somewhat looking like a DeLorean with the
doors open.  It would be sort of an inside joke.

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 14
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 18:33:25 -0000
Subject: Re: door openers

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Darryl Tinnerstet <darryl_at_dml_t...> wrote:
> Before adding that extra stress to them, buyers need to be aware
that the LH
> torsion bars ARE NO LONGER AVAILABLE.  You break one, good luck
finding a
> replacement.

Take a look at post #9770

> I'll get to "Vixen Goes to Cleveland - Day Two" as soon as I can...
> however, I just wanted to let everyone know who has asked --
> to Warren at DMC Houston, there is -no- shortage on driver's side
> torsion bars.  They have plenty of them if you need one.
> James and Stephen cringed when I asked about them, because they
> have any AT THE SHOW.  My mistake.  If you need one, just give them
> yell.  I already did.  I'd still like to find a used one if I could
> save money though, so if you have one you want to sell, drop me an
> email.
> And if you think I only wrote the above to get the bar cheaper,
> right. But there isn't a shortage -- you can even call and ask for
> yourself.  =)
> -Dave Stragand
> VIN #05927
> More on Cleveland coming soon!


Message: 15
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:09:52 -0000
Subject: Control Pressure Regulator Update #2.

I went to the local BOSCH service center. They wanted almost $600 for 
a new CPR! The guy behind the counter then proceeded to tell me that 
this was a "really rare part", and that BOSCH doesn't make rebuild 
kits for them. Let alone make the part itself anymore. He then went 
on about how it would be a special order item that he would have to 
track down. I then told him it was a common part from any motor that 
uses a K-Jetronic fuel injection system. I then gave him examples of 
other common cars in the US that use the system, and this part 
(Volvo, Porsche, Mercedes, etc...). He stood there scratching his 
head. I followed my gut feeling and left.

The local Volvo dealership had 2 parts matches, but didn't know which 
one to use. 1 CPR was $270, and the other was $386. Price isn't as 
high as a priority as getting the right part is. Next paycheck, I'll 
be ordering a new unit thru DMC Houston.

Maybe I expect too much, but I shouldn't be have to guide the guy 
behind the counter thru his computer system in order to find the part 
(dealership). And when I go into an official BOSCH service center, 
the mechanic in the garage wearing the "BOSCH Certified" shirt should 
be able to name a major part as soon as I hand it too him. A step 
further, when I tell him what part it is, he should know it's 
function. He shouldn't have to go into the back to consult with 
others. I even saw the guy do the same with an ignition coil off a VW 

In closing, stick with a DeLorean vendor to get the correct part you 
want. Luckily the only thing I lost was some gas and time running 
around town. Don't trust your car/parts to yokels! Stay with DeLorean 
specific vendors and mechanics who know your car!

vin 6585


Message: 16
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 15:23:45 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: Problem closing door (warped???)

In a message dated 10/06/2001 11:49:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, writes:

 I had never heard of early or late striker pins. It turns out that the
 pins aren't different, but it's rather a method of cutting the fiberglass
 behind the pin and shimming it a little more. This way you can adjust the
 pin more in and out and up and down. Then you can get these little rubber
 boots to cover up what you've done. There were a couple cars at the show
 that had these boots, and they looked great. I wouldn't have noticed them
 if it wasn't pointed out to me. >>

On my former early 1981, at PJ Grady's behest, the door striker pins were 
chamfered and cut to the 1982 style. The doors would close and latch with the 
touch of a finger!
Huge improvement and very effortless opening and closing of the doors.

Michael Pack


Message: 17
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 01:02:13 -0000
Subject: Re: Shifting problem

OK, I adjusted the linkage as outlined in the shop manual.  This 
allowed me to get back into 5th fine.  Now I can't get it into 
reverse.  It appears from looking at the gate that the pin in the 
shifting arm is too low to allow it to "lift" up enough.  This of 
course means I can't get into the ledge of the gate which would allow 
shifting into reverse.  As a matter of fact I can not see any 
movement up when lifting on the shifter (thus no reverse).

Any idea what to do next?

Ed Garbade
VIN 10541

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Ed Garbade" <garbadee_at_dml_b...> wrote:
> I believe I have a linkage problem but wanted to ask for input 
before I
> "Jump" into the task.  I'm sorry to say I have trashed 2 
> working on vehicles (a Ford and Chevy some years ago and both 
automatics) so
> I am overly cautious before I mess with one.


Message: 18
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 01:06:16 -0000
Subject: Antenna problem

Problem #2: Automatic antenna wouldn't extend or retract.  Took it 
apart and noticed the geared nylon strap that coils out to extend the 
antenna had snapped.  Is this a user repairable item or is it time 
for a new antenna?  The motor runs fine.



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