From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 753
Date: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 5:30 PM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. engine swap photo
From: Darryl Tinnerstet <darryl_at_dml_techline.com>

2. RE: On Buying a DeLorean (best year to buy)
From: "Michael Babb" <michael_at_dml_babbtechnology.com>

3. Re: Re: Miniature Lamps vs Led's Added Reflectors
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

4. Re: $62,500?
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com

5. low fuel pressure
From: greg_at_dml_blazenet.net

6. Re: $62,500?
From: CBL302_at_dml_msn.com

7. Re: $62,500?
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

8. Re: Sudden shifting trouble
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

9. screws in doorsill
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

10. Re: Oil Filter Crosses
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

11. Re: DMC REFURB, WHAT ENGINE?
From: P12C16_at_dml_aol.com

12. Re: DeLorean LED conversion website
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>

13. RE: $62,500?
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>

14. Re: low fuel pressure
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

15. RE: Engine Troubles.
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

16. Re: low fuel pressure
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

17. Re the $62,500 Ds
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>

18. Re:screws in doorsill
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

19. Re: On Buying a DeLorean...a Primer!
From: "Jeff" <Gr8old1_at_dml_aol.com>

20. PT Barnum?
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>

21. Re: $62,500?
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

22. deloreans magazine website
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

23. Re: On Buying a DeLorean (best year to buy)
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

24. Re: low fuel pressure
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

25. Taillight Reflector
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:11:51 -0700
From: Darryl Tinnerstet <darryl_at_dml_techline.com>
Subject: engine swap photo

I've added a photo to my web page of the supercharged Chevy 4.3 V-6 in my
car that may be of interest to some.  For those who may not be familiar with
it, the car is a daily driver in good weather, and has been very reliable
(except for that twisted-off transmission shaft...).  HP is estimated at 300
which may be optimistic.  And to those doubters out there, it handles great.
Check out www.delorean-parts.com.  You may also get a kick out of seeing
what is probably (I hope) the only DeLorean with flames and side pipes.  Its
a long story....

-- 
Darryl Tinnerstet
Specialty Automotive
McCleary, WA




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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 23:43:10 -0400
From: "Michael Babb" <michael_at_dml_babbtechnology.com>
Subject: RE: On Buying a DeLorean (best year to buy)

I will also agree with that. I was the owner of 3472 for about 4 or so years
and it was a very soundly engineered / build DeLorean.  I WOULD however stay
away from the VERY early VIN's (below 1000). Remember, these were the first
500 (or so) to roll off the line at a new facility with new workers building
a VERY new car.

At this point in time, with all of the cars quickly approaching the ripe old
age of 20, I believe it is now more important to consider how they have
lived out those 20 years, and to go for one (regardless of the VIN) that has
been well cared for, and was given the love, attention, and maintenance that
it deserved.

MICHAEL C. BABB


-----Original Message-----
From: K Creason [mailto:dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 5:48 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] On Buying a DeLorean...a Primer!

Nicely written, Les.
But there is absolutely nothing wrong with the 81's!!!!!
I own an 81, #4687, and I love it. It's an October, which I believe was the
biggest production month, and are fantastic vehicles.
Personally, I would rather have an 81, simply for the added asthetics of
hood lines than a flat hood.
Now earlier 81's might have some problems... such as the windshield antenna
or filled in front-fender antenna hole, etc. But it's all minor, and it's
all part of each vehicle's unique personality.





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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 00:07:07 -0400
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Miniature Lamps vs Led's Added Reflectors

Jim,

If there are supposed to be reflectors for the center running lamps, I have
never seen one.  I don't see it in the parts manual either.  Can you give us
some more information on what you are describing?  From the way you are
talking, it sounds like you already have the "correct reflector" -- whatever
that is.

Walt    Tampa, FL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
>  It is a nice big square opening which your supposed to put a DeLorean
> specific DOT-rated reflector in.  I question if I would really want
> CDs to act as the rear reflectors when my car is parked on the side of
> the road at night.  Perhaps a "flash" picture (to show the reflection)
> with a CD on one side, and the correct reflector on the other?





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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 04:15:17 -0000
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com
Subject: Re: $62,500?

I know that the comments are not directed any any one individual, but 
to make a generalization that most DeLorean owners "...are most times 
willing to give up the car for a pence." Is not a fair statement. 
Even my outlook about selling my car doesn't apply to everyone. Some 
are out there who have purchased DeLorean's, and will keep them for 
many years such as myself. And others have/will decided to sell them. 
Whatever their reason, selling their car is not a crime. And to take 
it a step further, the price that they agree to sell it at really is 
only their bussiness. But that's also a 2-way street. Demanding an 
outrageous price for a car can also be just as hurtful by sheding a 
bad light on things as has been done with other marquees.

I had a chance to sell my car a while back. A coworker knew someone 
who was a car collector, and mentioned that I owned a DeLorean. The 
man looked my car over one day while I was at work, and really loved 
my custom interior and sound system. A day later, my coworker told me 
about the man, and the offer that he had for my car. Granted I 
wouldn't have made a huge profit, but I would have more than broken 
even on what I put into the car. I declined. Not because the price 
wasn't high enough, but I love the car too much to sell it.

Would I be willing to pay $60K+ for a DeLorean? Only if it was a 
brand new car from Dunmury. Part of getting a brand new car is that 
feeling of getting handed a set of shiny new keys, and stepping 
outside to see your brand new car sitting their for you. That's just 
not going to happen with a car that comes from a service center.

So the next best thing is building your own car. I'm not the first 
owner, but almost every inch of my car has been touched by me in thru 
the process of it's restoration. That sence of pride more than makes 
up for the ownership history.

Selling a DeLorean for a low price doesn't insult the car. Any 
monetary loss obviously reflects upon the owner. And even that 
depends upon how the owner looks upon the situation. If they have no 
problems with the situation, then nothing wrong has happened.

To put a flipside on things, think about things this way. Yeah D-1 
sells cars at a higher price, and some owners try to boost the price 
of their own cars to attempt to raise the "market value". But don't 
forget about all us over here who purchased the fixer-uppers and the 
clunkers, and the low priced D's. We purchased our cars, and by doing 
so took these lower priced/lower classed cars off the market. Getting 
rid of the lesser condition cars by reparing them, and bringing them 
up to standard. We have done quite our parts too! :)

Now I could go on about other aspects as well, but I choose not to. I 
really hope that this whole "Us vs. Them" mentality dies out soon. I 
don't like where this is headed. First it was DOA vs. DML, next it 
was "My car is better because I paid more for it". Now it's even 
broken down into which technical magazine you subscribe too. The next 
item I see comming is "Who's a better owner?" I can see people are 
going to try and base this upon price paid, and vehicle retention. 
How long you keep you car, and what you paid for it doesn't make you 
a better owner/representative of the marquee. Neither does doing the 
reapirs yourself, or taking the car to a renound service center. It's 
what you put into your car that counts. If you're happy with your 
car, the you are a good owner!

Let's not let the kind of "troubles" develope in the DeLorean 
community that the original factory was trying to stamp out. This 
whole situation is begining to go too far...

-Robert
vin 6585



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Rodger I. Vannatter" <rivwindance_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> To re-enforce senatorpack's remarks, my D is 5 years out from D1's
> restoration results and is still a very dependable vehicle.  I did 
own my
> car so price comparison is not the point.
> The point I would like to stress, which I have never understood 
among
> Delorean owners is that they brag, strut, and express the 
uniqueness and the
> value of the car they own but, yet, are most times willing to give 
up the
> car for a pence.
<SNIP>




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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 04:18:51 -0000
From: greg_at_dml_blazenet.net
Subject: low fuel pressure

Hello all,

I recently purchased a non -running D (vin 6295). It has 80,000mi was 
driven regularly until 1996. I've narrowed it down to a fuel problem.
replaced the fuel pump and filter, cleaned the tank, etc.  checked 
the fuel pressure from the center line of the fuel dist. to the cpr--
less than 10 psi. same on the port coming from the fuel filter to 
the  dist. I wanted to see if the new pump might be the problem so I 
hooked the pressure gauge to the incoming fuel line without 
connecting it to the dist.-- effectively creating no return path.
when i jumped the relay(using a remote starter switch so I could see 
what was going on immediately) I had fuel pump out of the now opened 
port on the fuel dist (backfeeding from the return line??). After 
searching the archives  and checking the manual ( and not really 
finding this problem addressed) it would appear that the fuel 
accumulator has a blown diaphragm  allowing the fuel to return to the 
tank without pressuizing the system. Is this a valid theory? Is there 
a simple way to check.

Greg




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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 06:02:21 -0000
From: CBL302_at_dml_msn.com
Subject: Re: $62,500?

]For those who own and love the car for it innovations, expression of
automotive art form, and sheer pleasure of driving it... $62,500.00 
is cheap
at double the price!!!!




To put things in prospective,on buying a reconditioned Delorean for 
$62,500,you can pick up a $5000.00 fixer upper,have a Pierce SS frame 
installed(labor included) have all the zilla updates installed(labor 
included)have the Dmc of Texas Improved Engine installed(labor 
included)have a new interior installed(labor included)AND STILL have 
gas money for the next 10yrs,and insurance paid for at least the next 
5years.And still have some money left over for extras you wanted to 
add on.

Claude
000570




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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 02:27:41 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: $62,500?

In a message dated 10/23/01 10:07:35 PM Central Daylight Time, 
rivwindance_at_dml_earthlink.net writes:


> For those of you that buy it for your ego, find a flasher car to get
> attention.
> For those who own and love the car for it innovations, expression of
> automotive art form, and sheer pleasure of driving it... $62,500.00 is cheap
> 

Rodger,

I believe the above statement only applies to people who have more money than 
they know what to do with (and from the DML, most of us still have day jobs). 
 i think what everyone is getting at is that you can get very respectable 
DeLoreans for a quarter of that price, or you can get a DMCHouston 
refurbishment for about half of that.  what does DeLorean 1 do to their 
restoration cars that DMCHouston doesn't do to their refurbished examples?  i 
wasn't at the Houston Open House where they showed what you get for $29K, but 
i DID see Jim Reeve's digital video recording of the event and from what i 
can tell, DMCHouston does a damn fine job - the underbody and all the 
mechanics were 100% fresh, shiny, and new-looking. showroom condition!

the only thing i can see that would make D1's job worth more money is if they 
do a frame-off restoration and they do something to the frame to make it 
rustproof, such as galvanization.  but is that worth an extra $30,000??? i 
could do that job myself if really wanted to and had the time like others on 
the list have done, or i could let some shop do it but it wouldn't cost me 
thirty grand.

how much more 'restored' or 'new' are D1's cars compared to Houston's? we 
have to know what exactly the difference is.  a refurbishing job could easily 
be a restoration job, what is the terminology to be used here, and how does 
each definition apply to each vendor's work? in other words, you would have 
to compare what exactly D1 does and what exactly Houston does.

in my own very personal and insignificant opinion, there isn't a non 
gold-plated DeLorean on earth no matter how nice it is and what has been done 
to it to make it worth $62,500. that's what the market it is, it's economics 
- supply and demand.  you can't sell anyone a DeLorean for that much money 
unless they don't know a thing about the car and it's REAL values (which is 
much lower than the majority of the public thinks).  i would rather buy 4 
used DeLoreans or two of Houston's if i had that much money to blow!

(and from what i hear, you aren't paying all that extra cash for their 
friendly service, either)

Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 02:38:33 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Sudden shifting trouble

In a message dated 10/23/01 10:06:21 PM Central Daylight Time, 
bpayne_at_dml_macnet.com writes:


> Just a note, I had a similar problem on my last car, an Integra.   It
> happened to be a piece of the friction disk broken off and floating around
> in the clutch housing causing problems.  I also have a Centerforce in the
> DeLorean now that's only a few thousand miles old, however I don't like the
> feel of it.  Has anyone had a problem with the Centerforce clutches?
> 
> Thanks for anyone's ideas!
> 
> Brandon J. Payne
> 

Hey Brandon,

check your clutch MASTER CYLINDER too.  look in the pedal box and see where 
the clutch pedal goes into the rubber boot. does it look wet? if so, you need 
a new one. often times when you replace the clutch and you put fresh fluid 
in, it makes all of your old crappy seals leak from the thinner (clean) fluid.

be very careful with the car when you get a clutch problem where it begins to 
grind a lot.  i learned this the hard way.  if you try to get the car into 
gear and it takes a lot of effort, you should probably just pull over and get 
a tow truck.  it's very easy to bend a roll pin in the transmission, which 
requires dropping the tranny and opening it to replace. very expensive.  
you'll know you wrecked it when you try to put the car in gear and it goes in 
but the stick keeps slipping back into the neutral position w/o the clutch 
being in (normally it locks in place).

i'm curious, what don't you like about the centerforce?  it doesn't feel much 
different from the OEM clutch to me.  i just replaced mine in July with a 
centerforce.

does anyone know what can cause different types of clutch action in other 
owner's D's?  i drove another owner's car a few weeks ago and his clutch is 
very soft with very little resistance until the very bottom of the pedal 
travel, kind of like a brake pedal in a way.  mine is almost the opposite.  
it's very equal resistance until the end of the pedal travel is a little bit 
easier.  all of my clutch hydraulics have been replaced including going to a 
stainless line, while the other guy's car is also mostly replaced w/stainless 
line, but my parts are newer by an unknown period of perhaps years.  i was 
quite amazed to see how completely different our pedals are!

Andy 

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 02:41:25 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: screws in doorsill

hey all,

anyone know why a handful of cars have about 4 little screws in each doorsill 
in the middle of it?  a guy in town here has them in his doorsill (early 81) 
and i thought someone just did it in the car's past.  but i have seen other 
pics of D's on the net with screws in there too. i think it looks extremely 
'ghetto' and out of place. what's the deal? i wouldn't have mentioned it but 
myself and another owner have noticed this in cars we have seen.

andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:13:53 -0000
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Oil Filter Crosses

Eric, I have been selling the 72150 oem number from Bosch long slim 
fit for over a year. $5.95. Yes, You may find it under several 
numbers at different auto supply stores that carry Bosch. A lot of 
people on the DML list critisized it till they found out it does work 
and works correctly. 
John Hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/



 --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Eric" <ericp_at_dml_t...> wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> 
> I thought I'd share this with anyone who may be interested.
> I found an off-the-shelf oil filter cross for the DeLorean that 
fits 
> and works perfectly.
> 
> Moreover, this is the tall slim filter that should be installed - 
not 
> the short fat cross for the Volvo (which butts up against the oil 
> sender).
> 
> From AutoZone - Bosch 3421   
> 
> I crossed this from an AutoPro part #2342 (which also works, and is 
> of the tall slim type.
> 
> I've had both on my car and both work perfectly. 
> 
> Good Luck.
> Eric
> vin# 5557
> 
> Dunedin, FL




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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 07:13:57 EDT
From: P12C16_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: DMC REFURB, WHAT ENGINE?

Hello, 
I noticed on the DMC website that you can have a "0 mile crate engine" 
installed in the refurbished car.  What brand of engine is this, and are 
people who have bought one satisfied with it?  How does it rate with getting 
the original DMC engine turbo charged by the DMC?

Thanks, 
Patrick



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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 07:49:12 -0500
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>
Subject: Re: DeLorean LED conversion website


Dave,

Saw your site on the LED work.  Great Job.  It is a great way to update the car.  I
especially like the door marker lights.

Bob Brandys




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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:49:12 -0400
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>
Subject: RE: $62,500?

How do you figure?  

Something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it.  If
D1 can get $62K for a restored DMC, then that is what it is worth.

But, If I were in the market for a "restored" DeLorean, I would check
with some of the other well known DeLorean service centers.  I suspect
that their prices are more in line with "fair market value" and the
quality will be comparable.  I have yet to see anyone publicly complain
about the quality of any of the well know DeLorean service centers.


-----Original Message-----
From: Rodger I. Vannatter [mailto:rivwindance_at_dml_earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 10:44 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] $62,500?


<SIP>
automotive art form, and sheer pleasure of driving it... $62,500.00 is
cheap
at double the price!!!!



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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:28:46 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: low fuel pressure

Remove the 3rd line (the return to the tank) from the fuel accumulater 
and see if fuel is comming out of it as you run the pump. It is 
becomming very common to see the accumulaters fail after 20+ years of 
service. Sitting with fuel in them for prolonged periods of storage 
seems to be hard on them as opposed to ones that remain in continuos 
service. You could also have plugged or kinked fuel lines. Sometimes 
when inexperienced people work on the fuel system they inadvertantly 
twist and kink the lines without realizing it, especially in the area 
of the fuel accumulater. I also once found a banjo bolt that was 
replaced by an ordinary bolt (without the holes in it that allow fuel 
to flow through). I guessed that whoever worked on the motorcycle 
before me lost the proper bolt and substituted what they had. The 
point here is since you have a non-running "D" you cannot take 
anything for granted. If after you replace the fuel accumulater and 
CAREFULLY cut it open (there is a large spring inside) you can check 
the diaphram to see if it is there. When I remove them I shake it and 
most of the time little bits of black rubber come out indicating the 
diapghram disintegrated. After replacing the fuel accumulater it is 
probably a good idea to again replace the fuel filter as the one that 
is currrently on the car is catching all of the parts of the bad fuel 
accumulater.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., greg_at_dml_b... wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I recently purchased a non -running D (vin 6295). It has 80,000mi 
was 
> driven regularly until 1996. I've narrowed it down to a fuel 
problem.
> replaced the fuel pump and filter, cleaned the tank, etc.  checked 
> the fuel pressure from the center line of the fuel dist. to the 
cpr--
> less than 10 psi. same on the port coming from the fuel filter to 
> the  dist. I wanted to see if the new pump might be the problem so I 
> hooked the pressure gauge to the incoming fuel line without 
> connecting it to the dist.-- effectively creating no return path.
> when i jumped the relay(using a remote starter switch so I could see 
> what was going on immediately) I had fuel pump out of the now opened 
> port on the fuel dist (backfeeding from the return line??). After 
> searching the archives  and checking the manual ( and not really 
> finding this problem addressed) it would appear that the fuel 
> accumulator has a blown diaphragm  allowing the fuel to return to 
the 
> tank without pressuizing the system. Is this a valid theory? Is 
there 
> a simple way to check.
> 
> Greg




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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:24:14 -0500
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Engine Troubles.

Robert,

Have you inspected your fuel suction line.  You say that when you go up a
hill the engine sputters.  Make sure that your fuel suction line is not
kinked, twisted or has any tears in it.  Also, make sure that the suction
pickup screen is clean and the baffle is in place.  Make sure that there is
not water or other trash in the spark plug wells.  Get some silicon tune up
grease to put on the spark plug boots and the cover that seals the spark
plug wells.  This will help seal and make it easier to remove the next time.

Scott Mueller
DMCNEWS 002981
DOA 5031

-----Original Message-----
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com [mailto:DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 5:27 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Engine Troubles.


 But
when I hit a hill, the engine sputters a bit.

Thanks!

-Robert
vin 6585





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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:58:13 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: low fuel pressure

Greg, The accumulator maintains pressure in the fuel system after the engine 
is switched off and has a smoothing effect on the gas flow while the engine 
is running. The primary pressure regulator in the fuel system maintains the 
pressure on the system while the fuel pump is running. The fuel pump delivers 
more gas than the system needs to run with and the primary pressure regulator 
will allow it to bleed back to the tank after about 5bar. I would look there 
for the pressure.
John Hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/



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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 07:24:02 +0000
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>
Subject: Re the $62,500 Ds

I think PT Barnum said it best...!




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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:06:09 EDT
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re:screws in doorsill

In a message dated 10/24/01 7:04:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Soma576_at_dml_aol.com 
writes:


> anyone know why a handful of cars have about 4 little screws in each 
> doorsill 
> in the middle of it?  

A problem with the original fasteners caused some sills to pop loose.  The 
dealers cured it with the screws.  Fastener type was changed so later cars 
don't need the screws added.

-Wayne A. Ernst
DMCTech Group
vin 11174


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:07:14 -0000
From: "Jeff" <Gr8old1_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: On Buying a DeLorean...a Primer!

Thanks for the sound advice sir,

Being a younger enthusiast at the ripe OLD age of 24..I myself am 
hoping to purchase my first D before the Memphis show (already have 
my room booked!)and it certainly would be nice to be able to DRIVE to 
the show! A few points that i would like to expand upon:

> First, read a copy of Stainless Steel Illusion, that will give you 
the background you need to make a proper selection. 

Still a hard book to find..and expensive when you do. If i'm not 
mistaken wasn't someone here a publisher, a few months ago i remember 
reading that this person might raise some funds for a reprint. 

>I've purchased 2 Ds in the last 10 months,

Can i have your job?

>After reading the book you'll note there were a lot of changed made
>month by month,

Is this due to the stock of parts being used up before being 
succeeded before the new improved parts?

>Best suggestion is get the latest one you can find,
> preferably an '82 or better, or if you find an '81 you like, it 
would be
> best if the VIN is 5000 or better.  This is important.

Agreed, '83 would probably be the least likely to cause trouble, BUT, 
there's just something about THE hood (grooved w/ gas flap)!! i think 
THE hood was gone at approx vin 3200? someone correct me if i'm wrong.

 
> The consensus is you should not buy a fixer-upper, it'll kill you in
> time and money.  Best reasoning is something that has been driven 
with
> some regularity but not a high mileage unit, around 30,000 miles is
> about right.  What you really want is a nice car that someone else 
has
> spent the fixup money on, you'll see advertised a car with $15,000 
in
> fixup costs and the car is for sale for $18,000.  That would merit a
> look.

I'm pretty sure the "rule of 20" should be noted here. You would 
still need insurance, registration, tax. etc..

>now here's the part to pay attention to.  The VIN number is
> listed on eBay ads, with that I went into the owners list on the 
DML and
> found that although the current owner (from NJ) wasn't listed, the
> previous owner in NY was.

Non-owners cannot get to the owners list. Hence the name "owners 
list" It would be great if i could call whoever has owned the car 
previously (if not the being sold by the first owner), but without 
that list, it isn't going to happen. 

> What I'm saying is that first of all it's very much a buyer's 
market,
> there are a lot of cars around, do your homework first, get a nice 
one
> you can enjoy,  and at a reasonable price.  Don't get dazzled by the
> first one you see and/or by a cheap price, take a little extra time 
to
> get it right rather than spending a lot of time regretting a hasty
> choice.

First time buyers have no real experience in looking for a good 
purchase. But i think the DML runs a close second to ownership. Even 
though i have yet the opportunity to even ride/drive a D, i feel that 
this list is a valuable source of knowledge. This list has given me 
the knowledge of the man, myth, legend, car and company that allow me 
to intellectually speak about such topics.  i think it's safe to say 
that i speak for non-owners who are members of the list:

We appreciate the help and guidance that our friends here on the list 
provide us. We look forward to joining the community of Delorean 
owners and do so anxiously.

-Jeff Chabotte
Norwich, CT
Striving for the dream.





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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 07:43:35 +0000
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>
Subject: PT Barnum?

It occurs that some of you youngsters out there may not know about PT
Barnum of Barnum and Bailey Circus fame.  He was a master showman, made
a ton of money late 1800s early 1900s.  He is best know for the phrase:
"There's a sucker born every minute."




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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:24:58 EDT
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: $62,500?

In a message dated 10/24/2001 7:01:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Soma576_at_dml_aol.com writes:

<< what does DeLorean 1 do to their 
 restoration cars >>


    Instead of speculation and misinformation why don't you ASK owners of 
DeLoreanOne cars how they feel about their RESTORED car. While I was in Japan 
on a short business trip, I looked at a DeLoreanOne example...Extremely nice 
car and it was more than $63,000.
      There is a big difference between a RESTORED car verses a REPAIRED 
car...without regard to where or from what service center the car came from. 
I know that each DeLorean service center is capable of building you a perfect 
car.
    I'm sure there are "areas" on your DeLorean that you have put off until 
later. You are "just keeping an eye on it" and "daydream about what it would 
be like to have a perfect car"...some people do not have the TIME to 
constantly worry about a DeLorean repairs & projects...they have a life.
    
    Trevor wanna help me out here with your pictures?

Mike



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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:35:22 -0500
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: deloreans magazine website

The web site for the magazine will be down today as we move to a new server
to accommodate the subscriber forums and other areas. Subscriptions may
still be placed at:

https://ssl-020.imconline.net/usadmc/deloreans_subscribe.asp

or you can call us at 800/872-3621.

Thank you...

James Espey
deloreans magazine
http://www.deloreans.com  




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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:55:42 -0400
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Re: On Buying a DeLorean (best year to buy)

I caution all subscribers to take this type of advice with a grain of salt.  Do not to be
lulled into a false sense of security!  Simply knowing a DeLorean's VIN (or build date)
tells you NOTHING about its value or its viability!

Consider that daily drivers are not necessarily the most valuable.  Concours quality,
gold plated, and other very special DeLoreans would be unlikely candidates to become
daily drivers.

If you are seeking a daily driver, your #1 consideration is reliability.  After 20 years
many of the early cars have been updated, some with technology superior to that in the
last cars to leave the factory.  At the same time, many of the later cars have been
neglected.

Your #2 consideration is cosmetics.  Again, the leather/headliners/dashboard in a 20 year
old car will not be significantly different from that in an 18 year old car.  You cannot
tell from the VIN whether these things have been replaced or not.

If someone wants to argue the superior quality of the last DeLoreans produced, I will
point out that they have extra rustproofing over the epoxy on the frame.  The reason for
this?  They sat stored in a harsh environment for so long that they developed some rust
before they were even sold.  The rustproofing was intended to hide this deterioration.

There is no shortcut to evaluating a DeLorean, and that includes the first 500 of them.
Yes, "doing your homework" must include plenty of research so that you know what to look
for in any individual car, but if you believe that one car will be more reliable than
another sight unseen simply based on the VIN, then you are doing yourself a disservice.

The best the VIN (or build date) can tell you is what luggage compartment lid, stereo,
antenna, clock, wheel color, etc. to expect.  These are mostly minor aesthetic
preferences.

- Mike Substelny
VIN 01280, 8 years




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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:08:48 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: low fuel pressure

In a message dated 10/24/01 5:59:25 AM Central Daylight Time, 
greg_at_dml_blazenet.net writes:


> After 
> searching the archives  and checking the manual ( and not really 
> finding this problem addressed) it would appear that the fuel 
> accumulator has a blown diaphragm  allowing the fuel to return to the 
> tank without pressuizing the system. Is this a valid theory? Is there 
> a simple way to check.
> 
> 

Greg, 

i don't believe it is the fuel accumulator diaphram because if it is blown, 
it has a seperate line from it that does not go to the fuel distributer - it 
returns to the tank via the main fuel return line.  it may be possible though 
if there is so much fuel being returned through that outlet that it is 
filling up the entire return line and backing up in the distributer.  i'm not 
sure if the distributer has any valves that prevent this.... but you could 
check this idea out by going under and looking for the short piece of 
flexible fuel line on the rear end of the accumulator - there are two lines 
up front and one line in back.  disconnect the rear line and turn on the 
pump.  if gas comes out of that line, then you know your accumulator is shot.

one more idea - you must make sure you don't have any kinked hoses.  replace 
your upper fuel feed and return lines at the pump with grady's new orange 
lines.  they WON'T kink!!  also check out your lower line inside the tank and 
make sure that is ok and is not being pinched by fuel pump suction (after 
time, the hose gets soft and sucks itself in).  finally, doublecheck to make 
sure that your send and return lines are connected properly to the metal 
lines that run to the accumulator under the frame.  make sure they aren't 
crossed.  the return line goes the metal line on the left and the feed line 
goes to the metal line on the right.  if they are crossed things will be 
really screwed up!  the first step though would be to check that accumulator.

good luck,
Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:26:13 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Taillight Reflector

At request of Walt, I took 6 digital images of the correct reflector 
to be used in the rear running lamp. (Located in PHOTOS section). 
This reflector allows light to pass through it from behind it (where 
the running lamp is) but also reflects light back from the front.  
This way, if your taillight burns out, or the car is parked on the 
side of the road, oncoming cars would see your taillights as if they 
were turned on due to the reflectors shining back light from thier 
headlights in the same spots as your running lamps are.  I have 
acutally seen VERY few cars with the reflector doubleing as a running 
lamp like the D has.  Most cars have some sort of other spot on thier 
taillights where a rear reflector is located.  However, ALL cars on 
the road have some sort of reflector on the back of them.  If anyone 
is missing this part, I strongly recommend calling a vender and 
getting ahold of this part (I too, do not know its part number).  It 
is not just a matter of asthetics (which people who know me will know 
I'm obsessed about), but its also a matter of safety!

Again, the pictures are in the PHOTOS section of YahooGroups under 
the album name "Correct Tail Light Lens".

Jim Reeve
MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club
DMC-6960






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