From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 757
Date: Saturday, October 27, 2001 3:48 AM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

There are 24 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Re: Brake Lights
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>

2. Re: Re: Brake Lights
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

3. Re: Sudden shifting trouble
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

4. MJFOX ADDRESS?
From: "Rodger I. Vannatter" <rivwindance_at_dml_earthlink.net>

5. Re:Winter Deloreans?
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

6. Re: Winter Deloreans?
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

7. Re: Winter Deloreans?
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

8. Re: Your first DeLorean purchase II
From: Dee Moats <Dee-Moats_at_dml_excite.com>

9. Re: Winter Deloreans?
From: "Jeff" <Gr8old1_at_dml_aol.com>

10. Re: Winter Deloreans?
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>

11. MJ Fox Foundation Contribution
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>

12. Re: Sudden shifting trouble
From: "Rustproof" <Rustproof_at_dml_prodigy.net>

13. Foliage Tour update
From: turbodmc_at_dml_hotmail.com

14. Re: Winter Deloreans?
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>

15. #1458 and #2727 hit England!!! (long)
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

16. Pictures of my frame repair
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>

17. Re: Your first DeLorean purchase II
From: "Ben Maxwell" <ben_at_dml_benmaxwell.com>

18. Centerforce vs. OEM.
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com

19. Re: On Buying a DeLorean...a Primer!
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

20. Clutches
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

21. Re: On Buying a DeLorean...BE CAREFUL!!!!
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

22. 'deloreans' Magazine
From: "ian" <ian_at_dml_netvigator.com>

23. Happy Trails!
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>

24. Re: On Buying a DeLorean...BE CAREFUL!!!!
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:08:07 +0000
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Brake Lights

Darn, not the bulb base, solder the bulb socket to the strip.

Les Huckins wrote:

> That's true, the rivets press the bulb socket to the metal strip, oxidization, in time,
> causes loss of electrical contact.  Replacement boards don't use this system.  Best field
> repair is to solder the bulb base to the strip.
>
> sharksigns_at_dml_yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Willie,
> >
> > I had the usual problem as most with intermitent failure of my brake
> > and tail lights.  The problem stems from the sockets being riveted to
> > the circuit board, the rivets do not provide a reliable contact.  To
> > fix this I simply and carefully soldered the rivet to the circuit
> > board to provide constant contact and they have worked flawlessly
> > ever since.
> >
> > Try it I think you will be happy you did.
> >
> > Mark vin2602
> >




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 23:19:48 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Brake Lights

Mark and group, One more thing on the OEM tail light boards. While the new 
boards are made out of a better material. If the old boards are ok, I can 
silver solder them so the lights will be brighter and last. I just did one 
for a man in Canada and he said the side I did was so much brighter he sent 
me the other side to do. You have to clean off the connections and flux them 
or the solder may no stick to the two or three different kinds of metal.
John hervey
  



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 23:13:49 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Sudden shifting trouble

Rustproof, Could the weights be a balancing weight. If you and the group want 
to see a complete Valeo set, you can do that at my web site.
John Hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/drivetrain.shtml



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 23:23:03 -0400
From: "Rodger I. Vannatter" <rivwindance_at_dml_earthlink.net>
Subject: MJFOX ADDRESS?

[Moderator Note - the address can be found on a link at www.dmcnews.com]

I am sure it has been posted before, sorry, but can someone post the address to make the donation to the Zilla's Parkinson's Fund.
Thanks,
Rodger  Vin 6962


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:54:32 EDT
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re:Winter Deloreans?

In a message dated 10/25/01 10:15:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
billsfanmd_at_dml_aol.com writes:


> if I listed 50 ways to travel through the snow at the 
> top of my list would be a sled pulled by a team of huskies, followed by a 
> snowmobile. At the very bottom of the list would be any DeLorean. 
> Especially 
> 

I drive my D year round and it does get below freezing here in New Jersey, 
but I don't drive it on snow or ice.  No matter how careful you are, the guy 
behind you might not be.  I'm really not too wild about driving it in the 
rain for the same reason, though I personally have only skidded once- rainy 
pavement, original tires.  Before I got Yokos.  Anyway, snow/ice presents 
another problem: salt.  I had to leave my D parked for weeks on end last 
winter. =-(    Even the most careful driver can't keep salt off a car driven 
on a recently salted road. Just my 2 cents.

-Wayne A. Ernst
DMCTech Group
vin 11174


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 01:50:46 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Winter Deloreans?

In a message dated 10/25/01 9:59:54 PM Central Daylight Time, 
dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com writes:


> Don't you mean 0 Celcius or 32 Fahrenheit, which is both the point where
> water freezes?
> Zero Farhenheit is quite a bit colder. You and I, we know. You're in Dakota,
> 

hmm.  we'll here's the thing.  around here, we always say it is 'below zero' 
if it's freezing outside, as in snow, frozen rain, etc.  yet we subscribe to 
the Fahrenheit scale when giving exact temperatures...... we north dakotans 
are crazy!

in correct terminology, i should have written that i will never again drive 
my car if the temerature is below FREEZING.  and if no one else on the list 
believes me, they should come up here where we just got 11 inches and see how 
many blocks they get without skidding out, or if they even survive the 
interstate on their way here!!!!!


Andy 

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 23:21:38 EDT
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Winter Deloreans?

In a message dated 10/25/2001 10:10:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Soma576_at_dml_aol.com writes:

<< 
 > Im trying to convince my dad the the DMC Houston refurb Delorean is the 
car 
 > for him, but he asked my how they drove on icy ground?  Its a good point 
as 
 > they are kind of lightweight compared to other cars.   >>


    Why in the world would you want to drive on ice? No car or sane person 
would, should, could drive on ice...unless they need to get to the hospital 
or they a caught in a storm.
    I have driven an Automatic DeLorean #6058 & #3713 in snow and ice back & 
fourth from skiing in the mountains. The DeLorean does fairly well, compared 
to SUV's. I feel that it has more to do with the DRIVERS experience, rather 
than the make and model of car...even Hummers can get stuck...or is it the 
driver of the Hummer that get stuck.
    My best friend drove a Hummer back in college. (that's how I found out 
about the interior dome light match & subsequently emailed my finding to 
JEepey back in Oct of 95).
    Anyway, we thought that it would be fun to test the snow climbing 
abilities at 2:30 in the morning, & climb a snow covered hill. Bad idea, as 
we spent the next 6 hours waiting for a tow to pull us out.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 04:34:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee Moats <Dee-Moats_at_dml_excite.com>
Subject: Re: Your first DeLorean purchase II

On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:07:28 -0700 (PDT), Dick Ryan wrote:

"I've kept quiet on this subject, but comments about not buying a DeLorean
with extremely high mileage cannot go unchallenged."


I agree with Dick, I had a high mileage that I drove from North Carolina to
California and back to Houston.  Granted I stopped in Houston to fix a door
handle but that was my only problem.  My new D has 15,000 miles and I still
don't trust it on a long trip.  Before the flood, my DeLorean was is good
shape and I knew everything about the car.  new vin # 003442 old vin #
004434.     Dee-Moats_at_dml_excite.com





_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 9
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:49:11 -0000
From: "Jeff" <Gr8old1_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Winter Deloreans?

Adding my .02 ..

Weight distribution:
Yes the car is tail-heavy, but by how much? You could do what pickup 
owners do and throw some sandbags in the trunk to add more weight to 
the nose to even things out. But do you really want to vacuum sand 
out of your trunk for the following 6 months? Not Me!

And about the salt on the roads:
I think it would be a pretty nasty site to see all that salt on the 
car. Yes, the car is stainless, but does anyone really want to spend 
the time in the cold weather cleaning the car? I don't think anybody 
would really want to test the the limits of this aspect of the car.

I'm weary of even driving my rear-wheel drive Monte Carlo in the snow 
or ice here in New England. Think of it this way. if you have a heavy 
load in a sled or carriage, get behind it and try to push the load 
over a stretch of ice and see how well you can keep it on course. Now 
get in front of it and pull it using a rope or other means. A lot 
easier, isn't it?  This is why front wheel drive cars fair better in 
bad conditions.

Do yourself (and your dad, and even the world!) a big favor. Advise 
him to not contribute to making the vehicle even more rare and 
valuable by adding to the numbers in the scrap yard. That's one less 
vehicle that i may be able to purchase in the future.


Jeff Chabotte
Norwich, CT
Striving for the dream.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 06:59:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Winter Deloreans?

I have heard of some D owners who swear that their D's
are great winter cars, but I must agree with Andy and
say that I won't drive mine in the winter.  I have
tried that a couple of times in early spring when i
just couldn't wait to get it back on the road.  The
results were pretty unnerving.

Now, admittedly I don't have snow or ice tires on my
car, but I have driven in winter conditions for many
many years.  The D is just to squirrely on slick ice.

Dick Ryan

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 07:32:32 +0000
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>
Subject: MJ Fox Foundation Contribution

You can always use the secret zilladelorean_at_dml_aol.com if you wish to
contribute, Bob can handle it.

One more plug for the emergency booklet, it's by PJ Grady and Zilla,
amazing coverage, most troublesome relays and fuses are circled with
suggested update sizes etc.  Where to check for corroded connections
when a given problem occurs, what to bridge when you're checking your
fuel pump action, and much more.  Sized for your glove box, believe me,
well worth the contribution price of $10 download or $13 for the CD.

Have to admit I didn't get goose bumps when I looked at the diagram but
did admire how beautifully done it is (includes corrections where the
factory screwed up).  Perhaps you don't work on your car but it could be
very helpful if you could provide correct information to your mechanic.

If you're new to the marque, or even if you're not, you need this
information in your glove box.

Nowhere, from any of the vendors or anywhere else can you get this much
bang for your buck and still be contributing to a worthy cause.  A ton
of work went into this package, the guys are willing to give away  time
and talent because they believe in giving a little something back.
Don't you?

C'mon, jump on this, I'd like to see Bob so overwhelmed that there won't
be another Zilla product for at least 30 days.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:16:48 -0400
From: "Rustproof" <Rustproof_at_dml_prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Sudden shifting trouble

John- They may very well be for balance. I have been to several speed shops
in my area and every one of them recommends the Centerforce clutch set over
the OEM of any brand. They think they are great. Unfortunately, if you ask
them why they are so great...no one seems to actually know. One guy claimed
the weights use centrifugal force to enhance the engagement of clutch to
flywheel contact, another said they were for "dynamic balance" and yet
another claimed they assisted in the disengagement of the clutch to pressure
plate. I personally think that none of the above is correct. I will look up
the patent claims over the weekend to see just what the novel feature of the
clutch weight really is. Regardless, the proof is in the performance and I
can't detect any. (at least not in a Delorean) Perhaps if  the Delorean had
a bit more testosterone in the engine department the improvement may be more
evident. Actually, when you think about it, installing a competition clutch
on a car that can't really jump off the line is somewhat like putting
mag-wheels a lawnmower if you know what I mean. In any event, the
performance characteristics of the PRV-6 indicate that the OEM clutch is
probably more than sufficient for the task at hand, rendering any further
design modifications superfluous. (with the possible exception of improved
material components) That's just my two cents.
Rustproof
vin 1559




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:39:39 -0000
From: turbodmc_at_dml_hotmail.com
Subject: Foliage Tour update

Tomorrow is the DeLorean Fall Foliage Tour and there are only a few 
rooms left. 
If you have been thinking about coming now is the time to let me know.
We have a great weekend planed and the weather is going to be on the 
cool side but perfect otherwise.
We are at peak foliage right now and we will be in the hart of the 
places the rich and famous come to play.  

This DeLorean event is put on for you, the DeLorean enthusiast.
If you want to promote the car, have fun and get the most out of the 
DeLorean experience you need to attend this event. 
I know some people are reluctant to come out to New York based on the 
recent events going on in the world. Let me say that you are safe and 
that traffic on the weekend is no worse than usual.
I give every one who attends my personal double you money back 
guarantee.
That easy to do because 
Registration for the Fall Tour FREE!
Lunch on Saturday FREE!
Cost of raffle to win stainless DeLorean stuff FREE! 
Cost to use the Back to Future Pinball Machine FREE!
Cost to enter Shelter Island Road Rally FREE!
So if you are not happy with any of these items I will give you
double 
you money back :)

Time is running out to sign up at the hotel and I need a final head 
count.Rob Grady is going to spring for Lunch on Saturday at PJ Gradys
(Hero salad etc.)

Check this out!
PJ Gradys has donated some products from its new line of stainless 
steel parts.
To see some of these items take a look at the  brand new addition to 
their web page that was just  added .
 http://www.pjgrady.com/stainlessmain.asp 
The cost to enter the raffle FREE!
One more reason to participate.

Please let me know if you will be attending ASAP  
turbodmc_at_dml_hotmail.com 
Or call me at 631 680-4927

The hotel special DeLorean rate of $75 + tax but you must tell them 
you are part of the DeLorean Fall Tour (631) 324-4300 Fax 631 329-3743
On the web http://www.duneresorts.com/ehhouse.html

Regards,

Michael DeLuca
Vin 3113
NY Lic. DLORIANN






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:02:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>
Subject: Re: Winter Deloreans?

Probably the best guy to talk to about this is Bryan Pearce. He designed
and built a stainless steel frame for his DeLorean and drives it year
round in Chicago.

His email address is bryan_at_dml_denebcorp.com

-Christian

On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 P12C16_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

> Im trying to convince my dad the the DMC Houston refurb Delorean is the car
> for him, but he asked my how they drove on icy ground?  Its a good point as
> they are kind of lightweight compared to other cars.
>
> Thanks,
> Patrick
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:07:54 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: #1458 and #2727 hit England!!! (long)

Hi All

Well, after four years as a DML member, I can finally sign my posts with
VIN #1458

She arrived in Southampton last Friday together with #2727 and my friend
Rich and I picked them up on Wednesday.

Bought for $15000 for the PAIR, from the For Sale page at DMCnews, #1458
has 2353 miles and is a black manual, and #2727 has 34000 miles and is a
black auto with the Island twin-turbo kit (the first to arrive in this
country).

We've spent the past two days at the Diesel Centre in Staplehurst, Kent,
discovering just what a bargain we have! I'll write about mine, Rich can
have his say about his after :-)

#1458 is absolutely stunning. In need of a paint job on the fascias,
they are perfectly straight. THe louvers were so bleached as to almost
be white, but one application of Car Plan Black Trim Wax has brought the
colour back beautifully (HA! - it's nice to finally get revenge on you
lot across the pond always pushing products we can't buy :-) 3.99 from
Halfords)

The chassis is superb - one tiny bit of rust on the flap that holds the
fuel tank, but nothing more. The car hasn't been started for four years,
and so the first job was to strip down the engine to perform a thorough
service. Jason, my mechanic, was delighted with how simple everything
was, and we were all pleased that parts were all available the same day,
or the next day (all the filters, and spark plugs and fuel pump).

The big problem was the fuel tank - absolutely horrible inside, with the
pump, boot and hoses completely rotten. This wasn't a complete surprise
- but what came as a shock to Jason was my being able to get a fuel tank
the next day for 50 pounds (thanks Dave Howarth!).

Today I played with the electrics while Jason reassembled the engine.
Brakes, Clutch, Throttle, coolant and fuel lines have all been checked,
flushed, adjusted or just plain inspected. As to the electrics, all the
bulbs came off the shelf at the Diesel Centre and I look forward to
tomorrow! [Martin]

As for #2727, it's previous occupant was obviously of the rodent variety
having left a big pile of fluff behind the front grille. The engine
hasn't been touched yet, been fiddling mainly with electrics and
cosmetics. The new gas struts mean that the doors can now stay open
without the assistance of a broom handle. The enormous after market side
skirts got hastily removed to discover that the original ones had not
been retained, more items for the shopping list. Fuel tank suffered a
similar fate to the other one and needs replacing as well. The previous
owner had fitted a big switch to disable the battery, this could well be
because when testing the electrics, found that they all stay active with
key removed, requires further investigation.  [Rich]

Pictures from the cars' arrival at www.delorean.co.uk

A HUGE thanks to Darren Decker for being our eyes and ears when buying
these cars - we're chuffed to bits!

Martin and Rich
#1458 and #2727




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:52:26 +0100
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>
Subject: Pictures of my frame repair

Hi all

After some time well spent I am glad to say that my frame is, fully repaired and ready to go back under the car tomorrow.

The frame, believed to be suitable for scrap only, proved itself, in the hands of two very skilled engineers to be repairable, by replacing entire sections of the box-section.

I have just uploaded some pictures into the files section, these show some before and after shots.

Feel free to contact me for more info 

Regards

Paul
#6463


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 17
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:00:45 -0000
From: "Ben Maxwell" <ben_at_dml_benmaxwell.com>
Subject: Re: Your first DeLorean purchase II

I'm with Dick on this one... with one caveat... SOME of the best 
maintained Ds are the higher mileage ones... We've all seen 12k cars 
that have rotting fuel systems and crappy coolant systems.  It's all 
case by case... quite a few knowledgable buyers are looking for 
higher mileage versions because they know that all the updates have 
been performed and the vehicle's "made it this far."

Case by case...

ben
06976
nearly 70k... and starts true every time.



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> I've kept quiet on this subject, but Les' comment
> about not buying a DeLorean with extremely high
> mileage cannot go unchallenged.  I don't know what is
> considered "extreme", but some of the very best and
> most reliable DeLoreans out there have been driven  60
> - 100,000 miles and more. (Considering how many D's
> never seem to get driven, that might qualify as
> extreme.)  
> 
> Next Wednesday I will hop in my D and drive it To CA
> for the third time this year and this trip will be
> nearly 3,000 miles before I get home.  I have no more
> worries about car trouble/reliability in my D than I
> do in my Grand Cherokee.  
> 
> I have several friends in the DeLorean Touring Society
> who have high mileage cars.  Placed side-by-side with
> almost any "low mileage car" they would be the better
> buy and the same or even higher price.  
> 
> Why?  Simple.  Those of us who really drive our cars
> are more likely to keep them in perfect repair.  When
> ANYTHING begins to be suspect in my car, it is fixed. 
> 
> 
> Bottom line:  Generalizations about which cars to
> avoid and which to go after are like all
> generalizations - - they are guidelines, not hard and
> fast "do's and don'ts".
> 
> Dick Ryan
>   
> --- Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> > Guess I overlooked the obvious, sorry.  Don't buy
> > one with dents, don't
> > buy one with a cracked windshield, don't buy one
> > that needs to be
> > upholstered, don't buy one with trashed louvers or
> > facias, don't buy one
> > that's not been driven for 15 years, you will be
> > facing a money pit.
> > Buy one that has been well taken care of and driven
> > with some regularity
> > but not with extremely high mileage.  That's
> > reasonable isn't it?  I
> > freely admit that a pristine '81 is vastly superior
> > to a trashed '82 or
> > '83, I assumed that was a given.  As to the "book"
> > borrowing it works
> > just as well as buying it, I said read it, not buy
> > it, I borrowed the
> > copy I read.  You need to know what's in it.
> > 
> > You're on your own now, good luck!
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To address comments privately to the moderating
> > team, please address:
> > moderator_at_dml_d...
> > 
> > To search the archives or view files, log in at
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 18
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:46:54 -0000
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com
Subject: Centerforce vs. OEM.

Before you can compare the two, it's best to know how they work to 
find out what the advantage is.

First, the clutch assemby (face & spring) is mounted to the flywheel. 
Next the clutch disc is attached to the input shaft on the 
transmission, located between the clutch face and the flywheel. Quick 
explanation: The clutch acts as a clamp. When the clutch is engaged, 
the clutch will clamp the disc into place, and thus transfers power 
from the engine into the gearbox.

When you hit the clutch pedal, the hydrolics in the system ultimately 
push the "fingers" on the clutch assembly in. This then retracts the 
spring, and releases the clamp to allow the clutch disc to spin 
freely.

This may be a surprise, but the are made by the same compnay, Valeo. 
Both the clutch assembly, and the disc. On the Centerforce the 
differance besides some gold paint are the counter-weights on the 
clutch. The theory is that centrifical force from the clutch spinning 
forces these little weights outwards. By the way they are positioned, 
the weights will actually push the fingers on the clutch outwards. By 
doing this, the clutch gets 30% more gripping power.

So basicly, the only differance between the two are the counter 
weights.


I've had both a new OEM, and a new Centerforce clutch in my same car. 
I can tell you now that there is a differance. The clutch will grip 
better on a higher RPM grab. This results in smoother starts on 
hills, and with engine braking. Where I live, it isn't uncommon to 
have 15mph & 25mph school zones on 45mph streets. So you have to slow 
down to cruise by in either 1st or 2nd gears. So when my car is 
slowing down past 15, the Centerforce grips quickly as the force of 
the clutch disc begins to push against the clutch. It's less jerky 
than having to "pop" the clutch to quickly slow down. I would also 
imagine the quicker gripping also cuts down a little on clutch wear.

Bottom line: If you have a "weekend only" car that only see's light 
driving, the OEM clutch is fine. And the same can also be said for 
cars that see light daily use. But if your car is a daily driver 
subject to stop and go traffic, and other taxing areas of the city, I 
would reccomend the Centerforce. Especially if you are one to drive 
your car a little harder than others. The Centerforce clutch is 
great, but I wouldn't classify it on the same level as a Zilla 
products, or anything else designed to overcome the a problem area. 
It's a nice item to have, but it isn't a nessisary one. No matter 
what you use the car for, the OEM will still work fine. Myself, I 
perfer the Centerforce.

However, no matter which clutch you choose, you must also replace any 
defective components in the hydrolic system. This would include OEM 
tefflon line, and a leaking master/slave cylinder. If you don't 
replace faulty components, the car will eat that brand new clutch 
pretty quickly. I know. I wasted a brand new OEM clutch _at_dml_ 2200 miles!

-Robert
vin 6585



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Payne" <bpayne_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> > i'm curious, what don't you like about the centerforce?  it 
doesn't feel
> much
> > different from the OEM clutch to me.  i just replaced mine in 
July with a
> > centerforce.
> 
> Andy, honestly I don't have any experience with the OEM (Valeo is 
it?)
> clutch.  The previous owner had a Centerforce installed.
<SNIP>




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 19
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:09:11 -0400
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: On Buying a DeLorean...a Primer!

>Best suggestion is get the latest one you can find,
> preferably an '82 or better, or if you find an '81 you like, it would be
> best if the VIN is 5000 or better.  This is important.

I have to chime in here one moment... I certainly did my homework (about two
years worth) before buying my '81 Delorean, VIN# 1619, and I could not be
happier with it.  I've certainly had some of the problems common to all
Deloreans, but by no means more than average.

It depends 90% on how well the car was maintained before you get it, and 10%
VIN number and year.  In my case, it had 17k miles last spring when I bought
it, and now it has 24k miles. I am "technically" the second owner, as the
original dealer owned the car for the first 15 year under the original
dealer title, but in reality, I am the third owner.  The dealer did all the
recalls and updates.   I bought it for $16K and have put about $6k more into
it (not all necessary - about $4K was necessary, hitting the $20K rule dead
on).

As Les said, it pays to do your homework - mostly to be able to evaluate
whatever car you may find, regardless of Year and VIN number.  Personally,
I'm very happy with my gas flap and hood lines.

-Hank #1619






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:38:03 -0500
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Clutches

OEM -vs- Center Force

Check out www.centerforce.com to get the scoop on clutches.

When DMC Houston modifies the engines, do they upgrade the clutch?

Lets hear it from the experts.

Scott Mueller
DMCNEWS 002981
DOA 5031



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:16:04 EDT
From: senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: On Buying a DeLorean...BE CAREFUL!!!!

In a message dated 10/26/2001 6:16:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net writes:

<< 
 I have to chime in here one moment... I certainly did my homework (about two
 years worth) before buying my '81 Delorean, VIN# 1619, and I could not be
 happier with it.  I've certainly had some of the problems common to all
 Deloreans, but by no means more than average.
 
 It depends 90% on how well the car was maintained before you get it, and 10%
 VIN number and year.  In my case, it had 17k miles last spring when I bought
 it, and now it has 24k miles. I am "technically" the second owner, as the
 original dealer owned the car for the first 15 year under the original
 dealer title, but in reality, I am the third owner.  The dealer did all the
 recalls and updates.   I bought it for $16K and have put about $6k more into
 it (not all necessary - about $4K was necessary, hitting the $20K rule dead
 on).
 
 As Les said, it pays to do your homework - mostly to be able to evaluate
 whatever car you may find, regardless of Year and VIN number.  Personally,
 I'm very happy with my gas flap and hood lines.
  >>

    Did you do the work yourself?
    How much of the repair bill paid for the labor?

    There was a DeLorean car #1554 donated to a vocational high school in my 
area for the students to work on. The original owner was a teacher, who 
crashed the car (poor workmanship on the front frame extension replacement & 
fiberglass bonnet, grill was missing, etc.)  DMC dealer repaired it and she 
was scared to drive it. She donated it with 18,ooo miles.
    The car sat for 8-9 years on a lift in the vocational school.  I looked 
at this car 10 years ago... VIN 1554. The car was in very poor condition. The 
county board of education wanted $18,000 for it, 10 years ago.
    The car was later sold to a junk yard owner who got it running, then sold 
to another local owner who rescued it, pouring his life saving's into it. 
    He later sold it 4 or 5 years ago to a Naval Academy cadet, who put more 
$$$ into it, then drove it from Maryland to "Top Gun flight school" in San 
Diego with no problems.

    So the rule of $20,000 needs further analysis and a new figure (much 
Higher) will likely surpass the "old rule of thumb."



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 22
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 09:30:22 +0800
From: "ian" <ian_at_dml_netvigator.com>
Subject: 'deloreans' Magazine

Hi DMLers,

Whats everyone complaining about? I have just received my free copy of the magazine here in Hong Kong and think its excellent. I particularly enjoyed the piece about 'Eurofest 2001' by Ryan McCaffrey. Of course its an advertising tool (aren't all magazines!?) but I've spotted a couple of items I want on my restoration car.
  
I'm also a believer that "you get out, what you put in" so definitely I support DMLers, DOAers, DOCers(Brits), and the Euro-Boys contributing to this publication. The adverts will cover most of the production costs and I reckon the price is pretty reasonable (look at the $18 BRP offer!) considering the competition ($60 a year after HOW MUCH Club joining fee!!!). 

It will get better I'm sure, but its a darned good first attempt. Hi JamesE how do I sign up for the discounted rate?

Cheers,           IAN
**************************


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Horseman of PA <the_horseman_pa_at_dml_yahoo.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] Haloween DeLorean


> there are two types of fog machines there is a  water
> based which heats the water makeing steam, this could
> be quite damaging to your car. if youve ever been in a
> steam room you'll know what Im talking about. the
> other is a cemical compount which produces smoke, I am
> unsure of this method but I wouldn't try either
> version in a DeLorean or any other car. By the way Dry
> Ice can also damage your car if it leaks. I personally
> would use any type of fog or smoke to gain any kind of
> affect, it's gonna cost you in the long run and cause
> extensive damage. this is just a side note.
> 
> Wayne
> --- joshp1986_at_dml_yahoo.com wrote:
> >   Hi,
> >    A few weeks or months ago there was somebody who
> > was asking about 
> > a Haloween thing with his DeLorean and dry-ice. They
> > were also asking 
> > for ideas or suggestens. I have an idea but I don't
> > know if it hurt 
> > your interior of you car; but anyway what if you got
> > a fog machine or 
> > two or what ever number you want and put them in the
> > car close to the 
> > doors like behind the seats and maybe roll down the
> > windows about 
> > half way or something.You can also maybe get some
> > strope lights and 
> > hang them from the seilling or put them under you
> > car or even flash 
> > them off the walls maybe in the corners. You can
> > even get some music 
> > and play it; but I don't know what kind to get.
> >    If you my ideas then good luck and if you don't
> > than that's fine 
> > too.
> >       Josh.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To address comments privately to the moderating
> > team, please address:
> > moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> > 
> > To search the archives or view files, log in at
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:09:11 +0000
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>
Subject: Happy Trails!

Ok, ok, high mileage cars are better than low mileage cars, just not
with me.  One more tiny thing, the higher the mileage the more likely
that one or more of those other than competent miserable excuses for a
mechanic has laid hands on it.  How I detest those incompetent jerks.
Even my 35,000 mile car had marks everywhere of incompetence, improperly
routed vacuum hose, "unneeded" parts discarded that I had trouble
locating, improper adjustments and on and on.  The previous owner was
unaware of all of the really dumb stuff that had been done because the
"mechanic" was from Ireland and had worked at the factory.  So much had
to be corrected or reversed I can't begin to cover it here.  If you've
never had an unhappy experience with a "mechanic" on you're D you're
either very lucky or very unaware.  Read the poor devils on the list,
the car was fine, the fixers were a disaster.  If I had my druthers, I'd
choose a car that no one had worked on.

Bottom line, nearly every owner is happy with his car, regardless of
troubles, regardless of VIN number, regardless of mileage.  One fact
keeps surfacing, no matter what the problems, no matter how great the
cost or effort involved the car is worth every penny of it.  That's true
of Ed's $62,500 owners.  Not a one is unhappy with the purchase as far
as I've been able to determine.  (Sadly, that price would have taken me
out of the market and we wouldn't be having this wonderfully
constructive dialog)

Cheers!.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 24
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:21:47 -0700
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: On Buying a DeLorean...BE CAREFUL!!!!

As this week's moderator I'm going to step in here and add my two cents.
Dick Ryan pointed out that mileage doesn't play as important a role as
maintenance. I belive he's absolutely right. As a member of the "Touring
Society" I can agree that there are cars out there that have higher miles,
but have been taken care of, that are great buys. My car is a one owner, I
bought it new, and it still smells new. It has almost 70,000 miles and I'd
leave tomorrow for either coast, if I could get away, because I trust my car
completly. Others have commented here that maintenance is more important
than miles and vin numbers. I can't imagine that anyone could argue with
that but it seems that there are those that belive that a low mileage
"garage queen" is better than a well maintained , but driven, DeLorean.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion but if you want to feel confidant
to travel the country with your DeLorean you'll need more than low miles to
re-enforce your self assurance that you'll have a trouble free journey.

Bruce Benson




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/