From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 758
Date: Sunday, October 28, 2001 2:47 AM

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There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Your first DeLorean purchase II
From: "S CAGLE" <sharkywtrs_at_dml_msn.com>

2. Re: On Buying a DeLorean...BE CAREFUL!!!!
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

3. Noisy fuel pump (still!)
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

4. Need Veteran's Day parade suggestions
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

5. Re: On Buying a DeLorean...BE CAREFUL!!!!
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

6. Re: Noisy fuel pump (still!)
From: "S CAGLE" <sharkywtrs_at_dml_msn.com>

7. Re: Airbox performance
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

8. Re: Noisy fuel pump (still!)
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

9. RE: Noisy fuel pump (still!)
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

10. Re: performance shocks question
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

11. Re: Noisy fuel pump (still!)
From: mark_at_dml_wizwarecomputers.com

12. Re: On Buying a DeLorean...BE CAREFUL!!!!
From: RJRavalli_at_dml_AOL.com

13. still the stupid clunk
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

14. Re: overheating
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

15. Middle Eastern DeLoreans?
From: RJRavalli_at_dml_AOL.com

16. RE: Winter Deloreans
From: "Palatinus, Joe" <jopalatinus_at_dml_davidson.edu>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 00:25:28 -0400
From: "S CAGLE" <sharkywtrs_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Re: Your first DeLorean purchase II

  
I've got one of those lovely no mile cars sitting near my house as we speak...owner wants (last time I asked) 52,000. Cosmetically, the car is immaculate.  The stainless has the original brush on it, the original tires, original door, hood, and louver struts.  The original miles say 36 (yes, 36), This car is completely original...all the way down to the original gas, the original oil, the original water in the radiator.  The car was bought at the dealership here in town, driven to his business where it sat for 10 years in the showroom in his building. From there it was pushed outside, towed to his mothers house, and stored in the garage.  The poor thing hasn't been started since 1982.  I've tried numerous times to get him to let me just give the thing a once over, to see exactly how bad off it is...but he refuses.  His theory is that any work done to the car now will diminish the value, and that it's worth much more like it is.  I'll still give him that it looks great...but I !
fear the day a prospective buyer decides to try to start it.  Sorry, I'd much rather have my 70,000 mile daily driver that has had its share of problems in the past (from someone leaving it sit for too long also) than one that has been completely neglected due to fear of decreasing the monetary value of it. So sad...

Scott
#16738
(and loving it more each day)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:50:39 -0400
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: On Buying a DeLorean...BE CAREFUL!!!!


>     Did you do the work yourself?

About 10% of it yes.  Rob Grady and DMC Joe did the rest.

>     How much of the repair bill paid for the labor?

I'd say it's about a 50/50 split.  But keep in mind that you get what you
pay for when you have the experts repair your car - tremendous piece of mind
that it was done correctly the first time - you don't have to try to explain
to some local garage kid about how the car is built or how to fix it.   It's
no different from surgery - would you want to be operated on by the guy who
finished last in his class in med school, or the guy who finished at the top
of his class?  Or, think of it this way - would you go to a proctologist for
eye surgery?

>     So the rule of $20,000 needs further analysis and a new figure (much
> Higher) will likely surpass the "old rule of thumb."

Anyone can find specific examples to disagree with the "rule".  In the case
you state, the car was severely damaged, neglected, abused, improperly
repaired, etc.  The "rule of 20" is just a guideline, of which the majority
of people here will attest to, including me.  The basis for the "rule of 20"
is starting with a decent running car in average condition.  As the
condition deteriorates from there, the costs increase way past $20k, unless
you can do the work yourself and get the parts for a huge discount.

-Hank  #1619





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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 01:26:32 -0400
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Noisy fuel pump (still!)

I replaced my fuel suction hose with a new reproduction one.  I expected
that this would solve all of my noisy fuel pump problems, but instead it is
now worse.

The theory is that the original fuel suction hose is soft and becomes even
softer when hot even to the point of collapsing and restricting the flow of
fuel.  The resulting restriction causes cavitation within the pump, and
hence the noise.  This before was only a minor problem on my car with the
original hose.  It was only a problem when I had been driving for several
hours which gave the fuel in the tank plenty of time to get hot.

Now with the new reproduction hose, the fuel pump is more noisy than ever.
(That is after I have been driving the car for over an hour.)  It sounds
like an angry hornet at idle, and at any higher RPM it makes rude farting
and gurgling noises.

Is this due to the new reproduction suction hose, or is it due to some other
problem?  I had already replaced my fuel pump with a new one trying to solve
this problem.  That didn't change a thing.

So my question to the group is:  Is the new reproduction fuel suction hose
more susceptible to collapsing when hot than the OEM hose?  I read a DML
post where someone had done the Home Depot screen door spring modification
on a new hose.  When I first read this, I thought it was over kill.  But is
this what I need to do?  Or should I look elsewhere for an answer?

Thanks,
Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 01:34:43 -0400
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Need Veteran's Day parade suggestions

I have been asked to use my DeLorean as a 'float' in the upcoming Veteran's
Day parade in Tampa.  Of course it goes without saying that the DeLorean is
one of the coolest cars around and deserves to be exhibited at every
opportunity (hence why I use it as a daily driver).  But I am struck dumb to
come up with any graphics to put on the car to make it 'belong' in such a
parade.  Can anyone help me come up with some graphics or slogans that will
somehow make the car belong?

I have been thinking on the lines of a pun on the BTTF movie.  Maybe
something like, "Our armed forces are watching your BACK for the FUTURE."
But I really need something better.

I'm going to install a luggage rack that will help to mount flags.  My
friends are thinking about tying a cloth banner to either side of the car,
but I need some kind of slogan that is relevant and makes since.

Help!

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 03:02:23 -0400
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: On Buying a DeLorean...BE CAREFUL!!!!

My twist on the buying experience:  When you are going to look at the car to
make an offer, bring a friend driving his DeLorean and park it next to the
one you are looking at.  If that doesn't scare the bajebbies out of the
seller, then nothing will.

I bought a garage queen DeLorean with 8600 miles on it for $17.5K.  I've
always wanted a DeLorean, but never knew hardly a thing about them.  I would
read the Auto Trader ads and some would mention that theirs had a Volvo
engine.  I was hoping to find one with the Porsche or Ford engine option
because I heard those were better.  Obviously I didn't know what I was
looking for.  When I found something that looked brand new and super low
miles, I figured I couldn't go wrong -- especially for the price.  I really
wanted one with the Porsche engine, but I settled for one with a Volvo
because they have a good reputation.

Was that a good deal?  Eh, well.... I think I paid too much.  Now that I
have worked on just about every part of the car, I have found all kinds of
little flaws.  If I had of known to look for these when I was making offers
on the car, then I'm sure I could have drove the price lower.

There was little done to the car by the previous owner.  BUT, probably
everything that was done was done wrong.  Trying to form a criteria for
finding the best DeLorean for you is not an easy task.  I know that I bought
the perfect car for me.  It had little done to fix it, and I had all the
original factory defects and weak spots to deal with.  Is that bad?
Certainly not.  I'm an engineer and tinkerer type.  I love finding problems
and fixing them.  This was a great car for me, but may have been a horrible
car for someone else.  Did the $20K rule apply to me?  No.  Not counting
stupidity and luxury, I have spent a needed $8K fixing my car up well enough
to be suitable for daily driving.  This was mostly for parts.  I did 99% of
the labor myself.  I wouldn't do it any other way.

If you are in need of a DeLorean (it is okay to say that you actually need
one -- there are such things as wants, but then there are some luxuries in
everyone's life that are truly necessities -- and for some nothing other
than a DeLorean will do.) you either need to be a good mechanic with a lot
of tools and money on hand or you need to have a good relationship with
someone who is.  Your other option is to buy a refurbished DeLorean -- and
still you either need to be or become a mechanic who is familiar with the
car or know someone who is.  But this is true with any car -- the DeLorean
is just an extreme case.  Anything less and your car will be sitting.

I have over $30K invested in my DeLorean.  If I had to sell it today, I
would have a lot of potential buyers scoffing even at my original purchase
price.  I have talked with several DML regulars who admit to me personally
that they have well over $30K invested in their cars, but they are too
embarrassed to admit it publicly.  I say that the $20K rule is conservative
for a D that can hold up to regular use.  If you want a very reliable daily
driver that looks new, then forget the $20K.  You are now in the $30K rule
class.

My advice to anyone buying a fixer-upper (this includes garage queens with
very low miles): make a list of every part on the car that should be
repaired or replaced.  Then make two expense columns: Parts & Labor.  Then
subtract this total from the magic $20K rule.  If I had of done that, then
my garage queen would have a negative worth.  The seller would have had to
pay me to take it off his hands.  Do you get my point?  Maintaining a
DeLorean is a hobby.  You do it because you love doing it.  Many times I've
heard a statistic that auto manufactures make more profit from selling
replacement parts than they do from selling the car when it was new.  Cars
are money pits.  But what makes a DeLorean so great is that my DeLorean is
still worth what I paid for it -- probably even more.  I can't say that
about any other car that my family has ever owned!

If a DeLorean has had a lot of work done on it by a reputable mechanic such
as PJ Grady, DeLorean Services, DMC Houston, or even DeLorean One -- you are
probably getting a great value.  There are so many barely roadworthy
DeLoreans out there that are selling for $10K to $17K that it they are
pulling down the values of the well maintained ones.  A properly maintained
new-looking DeLorean should cost you $30K+.  Anything much less and you will
only be driving it occasionally.

Buy a DeLorean.  You NEED it.  It is healthier than anti-depressant drugs.
It is more true to me than any girlfriend and costs much less.  (At least my
car hasn't driven itself back to the garage of its previous owner.)  Now
I've said too much :)

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 09:44:15 -0400
From: "S CAGLE" <sharkywtrs_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Re: Noisy fuel pump (still!)

  
Walt-

Before you do anything like that, try this;  while the car is running, take the fuel pump housing and twist it in its seat.  Move it in small bits in various directions.  See if the noise quits while you do this, or the noise makes any variations.  If it does, it means one of the hoses is crimped in an area causing the same restricted flow you're talking about.

Scott
#16738


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:15:49 -0000
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Airbox performance

If you're looking for free hp, the easiest thing you can do is 
replace the Bosch CIS injection with multiport efi. The CIS air flow 
meter flap robs over 10% of avail hp. Std Bosch o-ring type injectors 
fit the existing CIS injector ports. Use a Simple Digital Systems EM3-
D (sdsefi.com) ECU and run it right off the ign coil. ODD fire V6 is 
NOT a problem. You add a map sensor, throttle position potentiometer, 
air and engine temp sensors, '81 280 zx pressure regulator, and use 
the existing o2 sensor for lambda closed loop. You can keep the fuel 
delivery/return lines, stock ignition, idle speed motor,and the 
intake track plumbing including the air filter housing which is not 
the problem with performance on this engine. You can ditch the fuel 
distributor, accumulator (if you want to), pressure regulator, cold 
start valve, frequency valve and the lambda ECU.This is a very simple 
upgrade to get you close to 150hp estimated. Programming is simple. 
I've already done it.




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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:24:20 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Noisy fuel pump (still!)

Walt, If you have a good quite pump and restrict the flow then to may get 
noise, but if you don't restrict the flow on a pump that is making noise and 
now it can possibly run faster due to no restriction, then you will have more 
noise. The spring does work. I have a picture on the web site about it. Also, 
If you bought the pump from me, I will exchange it.
John Hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/
 



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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 09:41:51 -0500
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Noisy fuel pump (still!)

Walter,
What was the fuel level in your tank when the pump was making noise.

Scott Mueller
DMCNEWS 002981
DOA 5031

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter [mailto:Whalt_at_dml_att.net]
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 12:27 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Noisy fuel pump (still!)


I replaced my fuel suction hose with a new reproduction one.  I expected
that this would solve all of my noisy fuel pump problems, but instead it is
now worse.


Thanks,
Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:01:05 -0000
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: performance shocks question

A cheap shock to use for proper dimensions is the Gabriel Red Ryder 
Gas # 81478 73556 from Autozone. About $12.00. The Monroe Matic Plus 
# 32150 commonly referred to in parts interchange lists is incorrect. 
Although it will bolt up, the Monroe is too long when fully extended. 
The Delorean front suspension relies on the shock, when fully 
extended to limit the lower control arm downward travel. The Monroe 
will allow the lower control arm to impact the lower surface of the 
lower control arm pivot housing when the front of the car is jacked 
up, stressing and bending the sheet metal in this area. Not a good 
idea. Differences in the Gabrial shock from stock include the 
requirement to use spacers as usual, and the fact that the lower 
pivit bolt mount on the shock is 12mm instead of the stock 13mm (1/2 
inch).Not a big deal.




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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 16:16:11 -0000
From: mark_at_dml_wizwarecomputers.com
Subject: Re: Noisy fuel pump (still!)

I would guess that you kinked the line somehow when you installed it. 
The line does twist a little bit when you lower the fuel pump down 
and position it, so take into account what the position of the fuel 
pump will be once lowered, and attach the hose to it to compensate.

I performed the 'spring' modification a few weeks ago and it went 
VERY well. The pump was a little noisy when I first started it up, 
but after about 5 minutes it quited down to a quiet whine. I can 
barely hear it at all (and that's just because I know what to listen 
for) from inside the car. It used to drown out conversations after 
the gas got hot. And with that sturdy spring in there, I know that 
there is NO WAY for the hose to collapse on itself anymore. I've 
driven it in 95+ Deg (F) weather and had no problems.

Mark
#10901

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I replaced my fuel suction hose with a new reproduction one.  I 
expected
> that this would solve all of my noisy fuel pump problems, but 
instead it is
> now worse.
> Thanks,
> Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:19:49 EDT
From: RJRavalli_at_dml_AOL.com
Subject: Re: On Buying a DeLorean...BE CAREFUL!!!!


   << So the rule of $20,000 needs further analysis and a new figure (much 
Higher) will likely surpass the "old rule of thumb.">>

You're right, the "new figure" *should* be much higher, simply because no one ever really stops putting money into a car to keep it maintained and repaired!   To me this whole "rule of $20,000" thing sounds a bit ridiclous.  Even if you buy a $17,000 DeLorean, if you keep the car long enough you are obviously going to end up putting more than $3,000 into the car for repairs.  To me this whole rule is a little silly and not very logical.




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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:45:35 -0500
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: still the stupid clunk

Here's what I've done:
1. checked the trailing arm bolts. Tight. Shims are 6 one side, 1 on the
other. That seems odd, because the parts list at Houston's site lists max 5
per side. Hmmm.
2. Rear hub assembly lubrication.
3. Check all rear body to frame bolts. Although maybe I haven't got them
all... anyone have a list?

While I was under the car this morning checking all that AGAIN... I grabbed
the right axle and slid it side to side. It makes a loud clunk sound --just
like the one I hear when turning-- as it travels as far as it can to the
outside. Is it suppossed to do that?
I've pulled the CV boot back and tried to see if it needed extra grease, but
I can't tell. I might try to use the grease-gun-needle and squirt some more
grease behind it, if anyone thinks that might help.

BTW- did anyone check out my page on clunks at
www.mindspring.com/~kecreason/delorean ? Are there any discrepancies or
misinfo? anyone have anything to add?

---------
I read this somewhere:
"most experts agree that the end of the world will come by accident, most
likely. That's where we come in; we're Computer Experts, we make accidents."




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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 17:54:34 -0000
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: overheating

> my electrical compartment - my fan fail jumper was melting and it 
was 
> super-hot.  i unplugged it thinking it could start a fire, then 
drove 

During an inspection of my relay compartment I noticed that the spade 
connector to the fan circuit breaker had gotten so hot sometime in 
the past that it actually melted the black plastic surrounding the 
spade connector. Upon inspection I found that the spade connector fit 
so loosely on the circuit breaker that I surmised the voltage loss 
across this loose connection was responsible for the heat build up. I 
repaired the connector and all seems well. My general feeling is that 
there are many loose spade connectors like this in the car. High 
amperage connections would be especially prone to over heating. Best 
to check them all. Some can be tightened up with a pair of needle 
nose pliers. Others should just be replaced.





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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:50:48 EDT
From: RJRavalli_at_dml_AOL.com
Subject: Middle Eastern DeLoreans?

This may be a weird question, but does anyone know how many, if any, DeLoreans exist in some of the Middle Eastern countries on the news recently?  I know there's probably not many tooling around Pakistan or Afghanistan, but do any DeLorean vendors ever get contacted by, say, wealth folks in Saudi Arabia, Egypt or Israel?  I wonder how hard it would be for owners in the Mid-East to maintain a DeLorean.

Just curious (for some strange reason),

Richard






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Message: 16
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:51:57 -0400
From: "Palatinus, Joe" <jopalatinus_at_dml_davidson.edu>
Subject: RE: Winter Deloreans

	I got my 2nd delorean as a daily driver two years ago in december.
In fabruary I went to school one saturday morning to take the SAT, and when
I came out there was an inch of snow on the road.  Living in a little town
in TN we only have 1 snow plow, and I had had my license for only about 4
months.  I came out and got in my Deloran and started to drive out of the
parking lot.  I slid all around in the lot, but once I got on the main road
I was driving a cool  miles an our without a problem.  There was this little
hill that was coming up on the road which I would need to go down and turn
right at the bottom.  As soon as I tapped the braked the wheels locked
quikly and I was sliding into the bankment on the right side of the road.
Lucky for me however I turned the wheel hard left and I hit the embank menbt
at just the right angle that the only thing that hit was the front wheel.  I
bounced off that side and got just enough traction to avoid hitting the car
that was turnign, and I went on my merry way.  I considered myself lucky,
however, I do not believe that had I been driving any other car of mine I
would have come out without and accident.  There are cars that handle better
in the snow than the delorean, quite a few, but in terms of sports cars, if
you are going to drive one all year, the delorean is not particularly bad in
this respect.  Had I been drivng my nissan 240sx or a corvete I think I
still would have skidded, and since the delorean does not have power
steering it is easy to feel when you have traction.  If I was picking a car
to drive in the snow it would not be the delorean, but if I was picking a
car to drive all year, which might include a few days of snow I would...
well I already did pick the delorean, I and I like my decision.  
	my 2 cents
	Joe Palatinus
	VIN 17167 6808



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