From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 779
Date: Sunday, November 11, 2001 8:12 PM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Trailing Arm Bolts - Engineering
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com

2. Re: Trailing Arm Bolts - Engineering
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

3. RE: Re: Auto antenna problems...
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

4. Re: Engine Help $$$$
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

5. Re: TYRE WEAR
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

6. Re: What other cars used the PRV-V6
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

7. Re: TYRE WEAR
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com

8. Headlight Switch Problem.
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com

9. Re: TYRE WEAR
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com

10. Reverse
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>

11. Re: Headlight Switch Problem.
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

12. Synder Delorean and Irving Delorean
From: Stephen Sætrang <smj_at_dml_delorean.com>

13. Re: Reverse
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com

14. Re: Magazine rebuttal
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

15. Mirror-heating wire
From: Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>

16. climate control not funtioning properly
From: "Cameron Putsch" <putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu>

17. Re: Headlight Switch Problem.
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

18. Re: Re: Trailing Arm Bolts - Engineering
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

19. need engineering info to make sway bar
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

20. Re: Headlight Switch Problem.
From: "Jan van de Wouw" <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>

21. Re: Re: Trailing Arm Bolts - Engineering
From: "Ralf Philipp" <doc.brown_at_dml_web.de>

22. Auto Trans Fluid Changes...
From: pbmain_at_dml_mindspring.com

23. RE: Re: Trailing Arm Bolts - Engineering
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

24. Engine oil and winter storage
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>

25. Re: Headlight Switch Problem.
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 06:12:48 -0000
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com
Subject: Re: Trailing Arm Bolts - Engineering

Hello List - 

I guess that I had better start with an apology to all of you.  I had 
wanted to make my ealier comments "value added" to the DeLorean 
community, but I obviously missed the mark.  I am sorry for diving 
head first into the pool without asking you if you wanted to go for a 
swim.  With that said, I will offer my conclusions on my studies of 
the TAB situation, without a lot of lecturing on my part.  All of the 
following are "in my humble opinion", and I invite discussion on any 
or all of it.

The key issue in the trailing arm installation is that the TAB's are 
bending under the loads applied while driving.  I don't believe that 
the issue is that the nuts are backing off, and allowing the joint to 
become loose.  The numbers suggest that the bolts are stretching and 
relaxing due to tensile yielding, because the numbers for that are 
somewhat lower than compressive yielding.  The bolts are getting 
stretched slightly everytime they are loaded up to the point of 
bending, and the little stretches, over time, will cause the bolt to 
get slightly longer (This is actually called 'creep').  This causes 
the bolt/nut to appear to come loose.  As the bolt stretches, the 
other components in the joint (washers, sleeves, etc) begin to move 
around as the bolt bends, resulting in wear at each point where the 
parts are pressed together.  This actually adds to the loosening of 
the joint.  All of you have either seen or heard of the wear and 
fretting on the washers, etc.  I better stop this ... I'm beginning 
to "go there again".

Bottom line - Yes, I have used science and engineering principles to 
design a bolt that will not bend or yield, at all, under the loads 
that I believe that we are seeing in this critical joint.  I have 
installed them first in my car, and then in several others.  I am 
absolutely convinced that I will never have any joint loosening or 
any more wear of any of the noted components in these cars.  I will 
never have to think about bolt rust or corrosion again.  I talked at 
length with the manufacturer, and he is willing to forego profit for 
these custom bolts.  He just needs to cover his costs of making them, 
so that the accounting department doesn't have a fit.  However, this 
level of quality is not cheap.  If you want the best, you have to pay 
for it.  But, you only pay once.  For a moderate-sized batch of bolts 
(200 pieces), with very good aerospace-quality NAS1805-7 self-locking 
nuts and hardened washers (for grip length adjusment when 2 or less 
alignment shims are installed), and including repacking and shipping 
to you, it's going to cost about $66 per car (2 bolts, 2 nuts, and 6 
washers).  I am talking with Darryl Tinnerstet as the potential 
distributor for these.  My goal is not to profit from these 
personally.  My goal is to get rid of TAB's as a concern from a 
safety and reliability standpoint.  I need to get a good feel for 
whether there is a demand for these at that price point, so that 
Darryl and I can feel good about investing the money up-front in the 
first batch.  I've already "got mine", as do a handful of PNDC 
members.  The question is ... what do you want?  Peace of mind?  
Or ... not.  Please give me some feedback on this.

Toby Peterson, VIN 2248
Winged1
 
--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> I think he's trying to say that he's developed a better bolt is 
that right Toby?  Reminds
> me of some of my college Physics classes, I was never too sure what 
was going on there
> either.





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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 04:14:27 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: Trailing Arm Bolts - Engineering

All of what you wrote was interesting but it comes down to putting 
more stress on the bolt then it will see in service by torquing it 
above that level. If you go overboard you will collapse the metal 
spacer in the radius arm bushing pn 106716. As is usually the case you 
cannot improve an entire system by changing one part. It usually takes 
a reengineering of the entire system or you just move the weak point 
to somewhere else in the system. Before you continue you should 
discuss this with a Delorean vender as they have all "been there-done 
that" and now have a good way to fix this weak area. There is no 
substitute for experience so before starting on a new project like 
this you should get all of the history that you can.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., tobyp_at_dml_k... wrote:
> Hello List - This is Toby Peterson ... checking in.
> 
> I thought that I'd take a little time and give you some addtional 
> background behind the engineering considerations that go into 
> resolving issues like the trailing arm bolts (TAB).  I will try to 
be 
> as brief as possible, and will also try to make it "value added" for 
> everyone's learning.  The following terms need to be defined because 
I 
> will use them a little later:  "Ftu" = allowable ultimate tensile 





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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 21:13:52 -0600
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Re: Auto antenna problems...

WD-40 does not prevent rust.  It is a penetrating oil
and moisture displacer (WD = Water Displacement).  It
is not even a very good lubricant.  It will free up
rusted parts because it is a penetrant, but it evaporates
quickly.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com [mailto:theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 3:34 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Auto antenna problems...


That sure is weird, because WD-40 is supposed to remove & prevent
rust. Anyway, another product to use is Tri-Flow.  Its like WD-40,
plus teflon, minus the bad smell.  I think the last time I cleaned my
antenna, I actually used Tri-Flow, but I have used WD-40 in the past.

John Yeoman

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Ed Garbade" <edgarbade_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> This may sound a little weird/off base; however, I think it is
worth
> mentioning.  I was told that WD-40 could accelerate rusting



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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 04:03:35 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: Engine Help $$$$

If as you say it was running good and then bad and then good after you 
messed with the mixture screw, the mixture screw can't adjust itself 
so you have compensated for a change in the mixture by adjusting it. I 
believe the problem is the lambda system as if it isn't running it 
results in a lean mixture which you corrected for by turning the 
mixture screw. You should hear a loud buzzing noise comming from the 
right valve cover. If you don't, check the lambda relay and fuse #7. 
You really shouldn't mess with the mixture screw, try to put it back 
to the adjustment it was before and make sure you have the hole above 
it plugged securely (No vacuum leaks). The most likely is a failed 
lambda relay and they aren't expensive but make sure the fuse hasn't 
blown just in case. Refer to workshop manual D:04::04 to 15 for 
placement of components, specs, and troubleshooting. Since you are a 
new owner a workshop manual and parts manual will become your best 
friend so if you don't have them you should order them with your parts 
order. Even if you can't understand them having them so your mechanic 
can refer to them will save him time and you $$$$. The fuel system is 
one of the more compicated systems and most mechanics are not familiar 
with the Bosch K-Jetronic.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., scott-c-arnold_at_dml_h... wrote:
> Since shortly after I purchased my DeLorean back at the end of 
> September, I started having engine trouble.  It ran fine during the 
> test drive so I even drove it home from Chicago to Missouri.  
> Sadly, one of the reasons I bought it was because it ran well.  At 
> least it lasted for the trip home!  Since then the engine has had 
> trouble idling and won't accelerate -- The engine will not idle when 
> cold, and the engine tries to cut out and die rather than speeding 
up 
> when the accelerator is pressed



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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 04:22:55 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: TYRE WEAR

If in fact the tires were worn out evenly then that would indicate 
that there is nothing wrong with the car, the tires just "wore out". 
The fact that they wore out so quickly is more a function of the 
tire's composition and treadwear rating. Tire life is a trade-off. 
They can make tires that will last like iron (never wear out) but you 
give up something else like traction, or rain control, or speed 
rating. On race cars were traction is everything tires only last a 
couple of races. It is possible that the tires you had were made 
wrong. The dealer you bought them from would be the place to go if you 
can prove the mileage used and the wear pattern. 
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Ryan McCaffrey" <ryanjm_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> Lance and group,
> 
> I share your pain.  I have Yokohamas on my daily driver '82 out here 
in the
> Arizona desert, and after less than 15,000 miles, the rear tires (to 
use the
> American term ;-)) are gone.  



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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 00:23:35 EST
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: What other cars used the PRV-V6

You should probably first check out the ignition trigger setup. The Eagle I 
believe uses a sensor on the flywheel for ignition and EFI timing. Check out 
project vixen or project redhead. I can't remember which but I think one of 
these guys went the Eagle route.
Jim

>Theoreticly, you could find a Eagle motor in a junk yard (I see them all
>the time for about $300 complete).  All you would need to do is swap the
>cradle in from the DeLorean engine, and it should bolt right up...



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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 06:11:39 -0000
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com
Subject: Re: TYRE WEAR

That's odd. I have a set of Yoko's on my car, and after almost 
14,000 miles, they still have a very good amount of tread left.

2 people with excessive tire wear with 2 different types of tires 
seems to indicate that there is an underlying condition 
somewhere that is causing this problem. A quick search on 
Google resulted in quite a few hits that all appear to suggest that 
excessive tire vibration may be the culprit behind the excessive 
wearing. And even then the sites have suggested that the tire 
vibration can be caused by faulty suspension components and 
braking components.

Perhaps it may be time for a computerized tire balancing and/or 
a set of new shocks.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Ryan McCaffrey" <ryanjm_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> Lance and group,
> 
> I share your pain.  I have Yokohamas on my daily driver '82 out 
here in the
> Arizona desert, and after less than 15,000 miles, the rear tires 
(to use the
> American term ;-)) are gone.  



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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 06:18:41 -0000
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com
Subject: Headlight Switch Problem.

Tonight I noticed a problem with my headlight switch. If I push 
the button once, nothing happens. But when I push it again to 
click it into the second position, both the clearance lights and the 
head lights turn on.

Is this an indication of a problem with the switch that could result 
in an electrical fire? How difficult would it be to open the switch 
up to repair it? not trying to be cheap, but I need other parts right 
now, and need to know which ones should have priority.

If it makes a differance, I always use two fingers to push the 
switch on the outside to avoid scratching the face.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 06:31:02 -0000
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com
Subject: Re: TYRE WEAR

I got about 35,000 miles on my last set of AVS Intermediates.  They 
still had some tread (not much!) but the fronts totally gave up when 
my front sway bar / lower control arm bushings wore out.  That caused 
a toe-out condition that ate what was left of the tires.  Have you 
done a four-wheel alignment, including thrust angle adjustment?  My 
car has been lowered about 3 1/2 inches in front, and 1 3/4 inches in 
the rear.  A frame shop did the alignment after the 
suspension 'settled in'.  I personally don't think that tire stores 
are always totally qualified to address things like this.  By the 
way, that was IMHO.  Don't yell if you own a tire shop.

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248
Winged1 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Lance Haslewood <lanceh_at_dml_z...> wrote:
> Has anyone experienced unusually rapid wear on the rear tyres?  I 
recently fitted new Bridgestone tyres and was shocked to see that 
they are now almost bald.  Would probably have done no more than 
3,000 miles since they were fitted.  The wear is even indicating that 
there are no suspension problems.





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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 13:03:38 -0000
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>
Subject: Reverse

Hi all

Ok... so my reversing lamps don't work, and never have since I bought the car... Need to do them next.

The switch on the gear box has now wires going to it... thats a start.

I have found two wires in the engine bay both green with a coloured stripe. can't remember the colours. These are just long enough to reach the switch, have tried them and still nothing,
can some one point me in the right direction as to wheter these are the right ones, and how to test the revers switch ( 5 speed box)

Cheers

Paul
#6463 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 13:41:32 -0000
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Headlight Switch Problem.

It's probably a good time to replace the switch (or quite driving at 
night). It is a somewhat marginal design, but there is no replacement 
other than OEM (hint to vendors-another opportunity!). I've bought 
OEM replacments that didn't work very well either.

I've opened up a couple and there is nothing inside that is very 
repairable. What usually happens is the switch contacts overheat and 
melt some of the plastic. Then contacts don't line up right and it 
quits working. Lots of tiny parts and springs in there, too. 

Dave Swingle


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., DMCVegas_at_dml_l... wrote:
> Tonight I noticed a problem with my headlight switch. If I push 
> the button once, nothing happens. But when I push it again to 
> click it into the second position, both the clearance lights and 
the 
> head lights turn on.
> 
> Is this an indication of a problem with the switch that could 
result 
> in an electrical fire? How difficult would it be to open the switch 
> up to repair it? 




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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 06:16:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Stephen Sætrang <smj_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Synder Delorean and Irving Delorean

Here's another Texas Tale.

I was in the Dallas area for a couple of weekend shows
with my band and my drummer and I thought it would be
great to check out the Deloreans in the 'Toyota of Irving' show room.  They had been sitting there since the early 80s and were never titled.  I first saw them a little over 10 years ago.  One was a grey interior automatic, the other was a black manual.  

When we got there, they only had one left in the show room.  It was the 1982 black manual.  I talked with a
salesman for a bit about it who was really excited that we stopped by, but didn't know anything about the
car.  Jordan (drummer) and I checked out the car for 
about 3 minutes.  Jordan found that there was gelled 
oil on the bottom of the engine.  The car has about 113 miles on it, never titled.  There are very minor scratches and seat wear, but other than that its in
perfect condition.  

The salesman when back to talk to the owner and came
back and said "The last offer we had was $50,000 and we turned it down" .. and I told him "do you know how much it would cost to make this a running vehicle? its been sitting for 20 years.  It would probably be best as a museum piece at a price more than that".  He asked how much I paid for mine and I told him my shopping story the ones I considered, the one I bought and about the warehouse in Ohio that a company in Houston owns.  

He gave me his card .. 10 years ago I was told that both cars were selling for $80,000 each.  I have no idea what happened to the other car .. 

_____________________________________________________________
It's not too late to get your 1/18 scale Diecast DeLorean model! To order, call 800/USA-DMC1 or visit our online store at http://www.delorean.com



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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:22:57 -0000
From: DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com
Subject: Re: Reverse

Those sound like the wires for the reverse switch. I replaced my 
reverse switch a couple of weeks ago. If I remember correctly, 
both wires are green, one with a either a black or a white stripe.

Assuming that the contacts on the tail light boards are making 
proper electrical connection, and the fuse is good, testing 
should be simple. Turn the key to the on position, and jump the 
wires. The lights back up lights should come on. Once you 
connect the wires to the switch, the lights should turn on when 
you shift into reverse.

In my case, I had a bad switch on the tranny. There was a little 
corrosion on the outside, but nothing really visable that would 
indicate an internal failure. Wheather the switch is good or not, 
there is a rubber boot that is supposed to cover the switch to 
keep it dry. It has a hole on the end for the wires to go thru. If you 
don't have this part, it would be a good idea to pick it up.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_b...> 
wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> Ok... so my reversing lamps don't work, and never have since I 
bought the car... Need to do them next.
> 
> The switch on the gear box has now wires going to it... thats a 
start.
> 
> I have found two wires in the engine bay both green with a 
coloured stripe. can't remember the colours. These are just long 
enough to reach the switch, have tried them and still nothing,
> can some one point me in the right direction as to wheter 
these are the right ones, and how to test the revers switch ( 5 
speed box)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Paul
> #6463




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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 11:07:54 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Magazine rebuttal

Tom, Very well said, But please allow me to make a comment. I own a book 
wholesale company. We sell to major chain stores products such as books, 
Video's,audios,Cd's, magazines and so on. 
In our world of publishing, a catalogue is a collection of normally one's own 
books, products and services and is given out freely.
A magazine however, the publisher sets the theme and solicits products and or 
services to participate in it through advertising, articles which a royalty 
is paid or other forms of revenue generation and you purchase it.
DMC Houston at this time has produced a very high quality catalog of products 
and services. They are very expensive to produce and very time consuming. We, 
the public buy catalogs and magazines. Just like my web site or any one 
else's, is it a catalog or a magazine. I have both going on my web site, I 
have products of others that compliment the site and the theme of what I'm 
producing and products of mine. Since I'm the publisher, I reserve the right 
to show or not to show. My site is for a little profit, but what I make 
doesn't begin to cover the production cost, computer, phone line and the R & 
D. and all the other expenses that go along with producing a catalog or 
magazine.     
If it's a catalog, magazine or restaurant that supplies services and 
information you want and at a small cost, then what's the problem. I spent 
$35.00 the other night on two margaritas and dinner. DMC Houston and other's 
in producing products also takes the fear out of someone buying the car that 
there isn't a network of supplies and services available. Most people I talk 
to are afraid they can't fine parts. To me, catalogs, magazines and web sites 
helps support the valve of the car since we don't have any new car sales to 
bring it up.    
John Hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/
    



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Message: 15
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 17:11:25 +0100
From: Jan van de Wouw <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>
Subject: Mirror-heating wire

Hello,

I asked this question a while ago,
but haven't gotten any positive nor negative responses yet...

I'd still like to know wheter or not the Green/white wires near
the mirrors in the doors are actually powered or not.

These were intended for optional mirror-heating and according to the
wiring schematic they should have +12V on them with the ignition on.

Unfortunately I am not able to acces my car at the moment to check this out
myself, so if anyone has ever checked tis out themselves or happens to have
his/her door trim off anyway, I'd really appreciate it if you could let me
know if they do get powered or not.

Thanks in advance,

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

------------------------------

PS. what happened to DMC Joe?
I Never see any posts from him anymore!




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Message: 16
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 11:57:38 +0100
From: "Cameron Putsch" <putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu>
Subject: climate control not funtioning properly

I have found that it seems I have no vacuum control of my climate control system. When I switch to defrost it still blows in my face. It seems I am getting no vacuum functions, but everything is hooked up properly. Any ideas?

Casey


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 17
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:03:41 -0500
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Headlight Switch Problem.

I have solved this problem before.  The fix is to disassemble the switch and
add some non-hardening gorilla snot at the point where the long
staple-looking wire pivots.

My original switch didn't latch well, so I bought a NOS one from a vendor.
This new switch didn't latch well either.  I disassembled both switches and
saw nothing wrong with them -- no worn or bent or melted parts.  It seemed
that the switch was just a poor design.  Out of frustration, I cut a hole in
the side of one so that I could actually see what was happening inside while
it was all together.  To my amazement, I discovered the problem.  The design
of the switch relies on friction at the pivot point where the long
staple-looking wire mounts in the base.  If there is not enough friction at
this point, then the other end of the 'staple' will not find its way
properly though the labyrinth.

When these switches are new, there is probably enough friction to allow most
of them to work.  But the more they are used, the more the pivot point
loosens up.  Even the brand-new switch was too loose inside to work
properly.  The fix -- just put some kind of flexible adhesive in there at
the pivot point.  Perhaps a little 3M general trim adhesive, some rubber
cement, or try what I used -- Permatex non-hardening Form-A-Gasket.  My
switch has latched perfectly ever since.

Another tip is to install the switch so that the side with the white key-way
post is facing the passenger side of the car.  In this orientation, if the
pivot point loosens up too much then gravity will help the mechanism to at
least get your running lights on.  If it loosens up while put in the other
way, then gravity may stop it from latching at all.

Otherwise, I've heard stories from various people:  Press it real hard and
fast / press it on the upper right corner / jiggle it while you push it in,
etc.  Basically any latching problem can be fixed by stiffing up the pivot
point.

Another problem I had with my switch is the socket on the back was too
loose.  I tried to tighten the connections, but couldn't get the thing apart
without destroying it.  So I ended up replacing the socket with individual
spade-lug terminals.  I used electrician's numbered tape to label the wires
so that the next guy can figure out where they belong.

Another head light switch tip (this one given to me by Rob Grady):  When
pressing the button, use two fingers on either side of the switch, and keep
your fingers away from the center.  This will stop the headlight symbol from
wearing away.  If it does wear off, then it really looks bad especially at
night when you can see the backlight shining through.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 18
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:49:10 -0500
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Trailing Arm Bolts - Engineering

I'd like to throw some ideas out to the list.  First, I'd like to thank Toby
for working so hard to find a solution.  I'm sure that the bolts that he has
come up with will be safer than the others and may eventually save some
lives!  My complaint at this point is that the problem is more than weak
bolts and soft washers.  Additional weak components include the metal sleeve
in the rubber bushing and the rubber bushing itself.  If a trailing arm bolt
is over-tightened, then the sleeve in the bushing starts to crush.  At
proper torque, the sleeve is only a couple of foot-pounds away from
crushing.  As for the rubber bushing -- I do not like the idea that two
little rubber doughnuts are transferring most of the engine's horse power to
the chassis.  This rubber permanently deforms with use.  Rubber has many
good uses, but not here!

Toby, if you are going to come out with a kit of new bolts & washers, how
about coming up with a new bracket that holds the trailing arm bolts from
both sides?  This should significantly reduce the bending force on the bolt
by reducing the length of the lever arm (effectively cutting it in half).
Also, I see no point in even having any rubber in there.  Wouldn't a steel
bearing make more sense?

The best solution that I have heard about so far is what Bryan Pearce has
come up with.  He is the guy making the stainless steel frames.  He
described to me his replacement that uses a ball joint (with his new frame)
and re-uses part of the original trailing arm.   He is working on still a
better improvement that entirely replaces the trailing arm with one of his
own design.

If DMC stayed in business, we all agree that there would have been a major
recall on the trailing arm bolt issue.  But I don't think this would have
been a matter of replacing it with a stronger bolt or adding a jamb nut.  I
think they would have gone with something like what Bryan Pearce has come up
with.  I feel that replacing the bolt with anything other than a ball joint
is a bad idea.

It sounds like the trialing arm bolt problem is not just limited to the
DeLorean.  Rob Grady told me that he has a Lotus that uses the same
arrangement, but the bolt used is one size thinner than that used on the
DeLorean.  Does anyone know of the problems that Lotus has had concerning
recalls if any?

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 19
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:22:06 -0500
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: need engineering info to make sway bar

Due to the prodding of another list member (Skipper Landry), we are going to
make some new sway bars happen one way or another if it is humanly possible.
I've done it with the convex side mirror project, and now it is going to
happen to the front suspension.  Long ago list member Fred Lockett had a
suspension company make a batch of add-on rear sway bars for the DeLorean.
We are in the process of having this same company make another batch of
these rear bars.  Additionally, come hell or high water, we are going to
have new heavy-duty front sway bars made as well.  Fred tried to have these
made before, but couldn't get the manufacture to cooperate.  The way the bar
was made with threaded ends makes it very hard to accurately reproduce, but
we brainstormed and found a technique to resolve this.

What I need from the rest of you is some of the original engineering
drawings of how Lotus intended the front suspension to work.  I know the
information is out there and is probably being hoarded by some collector.
Well, if this information is going to do anyone any good, it needs to be
made public.  If there is any legitimate use for it, the new geometry front
sway bar project is it.  Otherwise keep those papers in your closet until
the end of the world.  I hope you won't let pride of exclusive ownership get
in the way of helping everyone else.  Who has these documents, and why
haven't they been made public?  I heard that someone had a copy for sale
years ago for a few thousand dollars.  Well, I'm not made of that kind of
money.  Unless you want some very expensive wall paper, your money is
wasted.

Specifically, I need to know the original intended dimensions of the front
sway bar and how it connects to the crumple tubes and lower control arms.  I
can figure this out by measuring the parts of various cars, but it would be
real nice to see the original design drawings to use as a reference.

If anyone else is interested in this project, let me know.  I'm not keeping
any secrets.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 20
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:25:07 -0000
From: "Jan van de Wouw" <Jan_at_dml_vdWouw.Demon.nl>
Subject: Re: Headlight Switch Problem.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., DMCVegas_at_dml_l... wrote:
> Tonight I noticed a problem with my headlight switch. If I push 
> the button once, nothing happens. But when I push it again to 
> click it into the second position, both the clearance lights
> and the head lights turn on.

I had the exact same problem on my car since I bought it.
On opening the switch it turned out that the plastic between the 
contacts had melted and allowed for the contacts it was in between 
to misalign. This resulted in the sliding parts not touching the
contacts, so no electrical connction was made. The plastic only 
melted in the first position, so in second everything DID connect.

I bought a new Lights Master Switch, which I put in while I was 
replacing my radio. Since I had my console out anyway I could 
reach every wire much better, so I made a slight modification: 
the switch now operates a relay (with contacts rated at 30Amps), 
which in turn switches all lights. This way the load for the 
switch went from about 4Amps to less that 0.10Amps. 
Not that 4 Amps is so much current, but on dirty contacts it's 
enough to cause some seriuous heat.

I also put in a second relay that gets powered after the 
ignitionswitch, switching the power for the headlights, 
so when I turn off the ignition, only the perimiter lights 
stay on and the headlights can be flashed. This also help save 
the battery when you forget to turn off the lights. 
On top of that I also fitted a reminder buzzer that starts 
beeping when I have lights on and turn off the ignition, 
this way I never ACCIDENTALLY leave on my lights...

If you want/need instructions on how to hook up the relay(s) 
or a buzzer, give me a private mail on jan_at_dml_vdwouw.demon.nl 
(jan [at] vdwouw.demon.nl in case Yahoogroups gables my address).

Good luck,

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

------------------------------





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Message: 21
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 23:15:22 +0100
From: "Ralf Philipp" <doc.brown_at_dml_web.de>
Subject: Re: Re: Trailing Arm Bolts - Engineering

Toby!

If you ask me, there is no need to apologize. I was very pleased by the
scientific way you approached and solved this problem. You did not rely on
hearsay or opinions, but worked out a solution based on hard facts. Your
solution is one which I can rely on.
I read your founded explanations with great interest. To me this was the
best contribution to this list since long! As soon as these bolts will be
available, I will take a pair, that is for sure.

It is an important part of the car, so one must be very careful not to
impair the security of the car. I don't want to bash anyone, but simply
replacing this bolt with a standard stainless steel (grade 316) bolt without
having a look at the (inferior) material properties is thougtless. Toby did
the right thing: He gathered all available facts and worked out a solution
you can rely on.

bye,

Ralf.




> Hello List -
>
> I guess that I had better start with an apology to all of you.  I had
> wanted to make my ealier comments "value added" to the DeLorean
> community, but I obviously missed the mark.  I am sorry for diving
> head first into the pool without asking you if you wanted to go for a
> swim.  With that said, I will offer my conclusions on my studies of
> the TAB situation, without a lot of lecturing on my part.  All of the
> following are "in my humble opinion", and I invite discussion on any
> or all of it.





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Message: 22
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 22:46:27 -0000
From: pbmain_at_dml_mindspring.com
Subject: Auto Trans Fluid Changes...

Newbie question here..

When changing the Auto Trans fluid, the workshop manual mentions 
draining, then adding 2 Qts of oil, then "add additional fluid to 
bring th efluid level to the proper mark on the dipstick".  

How much over the 2 qts is typical to add?  I added just over 2 qts 
and it seems ok, but with all the marks on the dipstick and the fact 
that it doesn't seem real clear cut on where exactly the level is on 
the dipstick (it's pretty much everywhere on that thing)...I just 
wanted to make sure I was in the right ballpark.

Pete




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Message: 23
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 17:16:42 -0600
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Re: Trailing Arm Bolts - Engineering

There have not been any pervasive problems with trailing arm
attachements on the Esprit.  The suspension geometry is
very similar and uses similar components.  The Esprit
uses a 7/16 x 4.5" bolt, the DeLorean an M12 of unspecified
length.  Esprits of the same vintage as the DeLorean were
delivering 50%-80% more horsepower using the same
suspension.  Later versions of the Esprit are delivering
almost 3x the hp.  Remember that the engine mounts,
gearbox mounts, and other rear suspension pickup points
are also involved with the transmission of power from
the engine to the frame.

The rubber bushings used to isolate the trailing arm from
the rest of the frame is no different an application than
using rubber bushings to isolate other suspension or powertrain
components from the frame.  Removing these items or replacing
them with heim joints, spherical joints, or ball joints will
transmit a lot more vibration and harshness to the
passenger compartment and possibly adversely effect
handling by removing compliance from the suspension
attachment points.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter [mailto:Whalt_at_dml_att.net]
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 2:49 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Trailing Arm Bolts - Engineering
. . .

It sounds like the trialing arm bolt problem is not just limited to the
DeLorean.  Rob Grady told me that he has a Lotus that uses the same
arrangement, but the bolt used is one size thinner than that used on the
DeLorean.  Does anyone know of the problems that Lotus has had concerning
recalls if any?

Walt    Tampa, FL



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Message: 24
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 23:18:23 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Engine oil and winter storage

Sadly, I took my D to the storage location for the upcoming MN winter 
yesterday.  The weather here is still nice, but considering some of 
the cords on the rear tires are poking through, I figured I really 
should quit driving it for the moment.  There is just one thing I'm 
unsure of doing at this point though.  The oil in my engine just 
passed 3000 miles.  It was changed last about 1 1/2 months ago.  And 
my car will mostly likely be sitting unstarted for 4-6 months.  Do 
anyone here think it would be fine to leave the oil as is (still 
looking clean) and change it in spring?  Or what about just draining 
the oil and put some fresh stuff in while leaving the filter untouched 
(since it will be changed first thing in spring)?  Or should I go 
ahead and order a filter from a vendor and get it quickly shipped to 
me?  I havn't done anything to the car yet, but I want to get fuel 
stabilizer in it and pull the battery no later than next weekend, so 
if I mess with the oil, that is when I would need to do it by.

Jim Reeve
MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club
DMC-6960




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Message: 25
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 11:01:31 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Headlight Switch Problem.

Most DeLorean headlight switch problems are related to worn contacts inside
the switch housing. Removing the switch and spraying electrical contact
cleaner into the interior of the switch while activating the switch may
temporarily return the switch to normal operation. Installing a new
replacement is the only long term way to correct your switch problem.

DMC Joe
DeLorean Help dmchelp_at_dml_att.net
www.dmc.tv
----- Original Message -----
From: <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 1:18 AM
Subject: [DML] Headlight Switch Problem.


> Tonight I noticed a problem with my headlight switch. If I push
> the button once, nothing happens. But when I push it again to
> click it into the second position, both the clearance lights and the
> head lights turn on.
>
> Is this an indication of a problem with the switch that could result
> in an electrical fire? How difficult would it be to open the switch
> up to repair it? not trying to be cheap, but I need other parts right
> now, and need to know which ones should have priority.



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